City Elf derail#1837

[nauta]

Hey, I got a reply to my request two days ago, and it was somewhat positive at least. I'm pretty sure I made Nyr groan a little from reading through it all, but soon.

I think it's fantastic that you are pursuing this.  I, for one, would play a c-elf in Nak if they had non-virtual tribes (or at least some access to a broader range of plots).

[bardlyone]

what you never counted on was players seeing it coming, amirite?

[Patuk]

I will allow anyone not Havokblue a chance to apply for a spot in the rolecall. Havokblue's characters all invoke Zalanthan murphy's law, which I'd rather keep faaaaaar away, and insomniac pacific dudes don't mix with my timezone very well.

[HavokBlue]

We are not discussing our plans openly at this point but what I CAN tell you is that there will be new NPCs to fulfill critical functions formerly provided by city elven PCs. We do not have any updates on moving the jail closer to the criminals that we can share at this time.

[FantasyWriter]

You know... it is possible to form a group of celves now that may eventually come to trust one another enough to call them tribe.
Coded support for clans is overrated (and that too, is now possible IG without a precoded elf tribe).
Stop asking staff if you can have fun playing the game. Start having fun playing the game and just do it.

[RogueGunslinger]

You know... it is possible to form a group of celves now that may eventually come to trust one another enough to call them tribe.
Coded support for clans is overrated (and that too, is now possible IG without a precoded elf tribe).
Stop asking staff if you can have fun playing the game. Start having fun playing the game and just do it.

Eh, no.

[Jihelu]

I don't see why a small group of elves couldn't hook up together.
Not full on Tribe but more so "We pool our money together and we buy food occasionally don't invite people you stupid nerds" type thing.
Of course you should probably trust them with your life and probably steal with them or some shit.

[FantasyWriter]

I  too would prefer that there was at least one city elf tribe in Nak. And I can count on one hand the number of elves I've played (one of which was a Jaxa Pah face when they first opened).
But if all the people that always complain about no elf tribes on the GDB rolled up an elf in Nak at the same time.... well... You wouldn't have anything to gripe about anymore. This is one of the instances where you truly can be the change.

[FantasyWriter]

I don't see why a small group of elves couldn't hook up together.
Not full on Tribe but more so "We pool our money together and we buy food occasionally don't invite people you stupid nerds" type thing.
Of course you should probably trust them with your life and probably steal with them or some shit.

Right, it would be a very slow and drawn out development, but it IS possible.

[nauta]

I  too would prefer that there was at least one city elf tribe in Nak. And I can count on one hand the number of elves I've played (one of which was a Jaxa Pah face when they first opened).
But if all the people that always complain about no elf tribes on the GDB rolled up an elf in Nak at the same time.... well... You wouldn't have anything to gripe about anymore. This is one of the instances where you truly can be the change.

But PC elves don't trust each other since they aren't of the same tribe!  Indeed, at least the elves I've seen distrusted each other more than they did humans.  Hence, you'd have to do this year-long trust game with them, during which they'll probably die.  It'd be nice to have a group of PC elves who you were able to trust by default.  It doesn't have to be big, and it certainly doesn't have to be coded -- I believe Patuk's submission is a submission for the recently announced family/tribe stuff.  He's just doing what all of us are too lazy to do: the paperwork.

[BadSkeelz]

City Elves have all been locked in the walls kanking each other enough that you can probably stretch reasoning enough to consider every other City Elf, if not a tribe member, at least related kin.

[Jihelu]

Maybe we should reinvent the whole 'virtual city elf tribe' thing.
I feel like it makes a lot of boundries with other elves.
Maybe I know nothing about elves though.

[Patuk]

I hope I work the application out with staff in time for Tuluk's closing now. Somehow, for three ex nobles/templars to turn elf appeals to me immensely.

[RogueGunslinger]

I'm for re-inventing c-elves if that's what it takes for them to make any sense.

[KankWhisperer]

I'm for re-inventing c-elves if that's what it takes for them to make any sense.

I actually agree with you. 

[Jihelu]

I feel like completely throwing out Virtual tribes is a possibility. Maybe leave it with Celves having no tribes, but large as hell families and mini organizations that mimic human merchant houses and what not?
They moved to the city for a reason I imagine. Keeping the tribe could have people tracking your loved ones easier/calling you a tribal sissy.

Though that is probably a bad idea.

[valeria]

You know... it is possible to form a group of celves now that may eventually come to trust one another enough to call them tribe.

I was going to do this a relatively short time ago, and then I was specifically told that it was not okay.  But you say "now" like you have had a different experience.  Still, I'd check with staff before making this your goal.

[BadSkeelz]

At this rate I'd just do it anyway and dare staff to store you all.

[MeTekillot]

Ask for forgiveness, not permission.

[Patuk]

You do it, I put work into my app. Nyr told me february isn't nanowrimo, even.

[Cind]

I'm for re-inventing c-elves if that's what it takes for them to make any sense.

I actually agree with you. 

[FantasyWriter]

You know... it is possible to form a group of celves now that may eventually come to trust one another enough to call them tribe.

I was going to do this a relatively short time ago, and then I was specifically told that it was not okay.  But you say "now" like you have had a different experience.  Still, I'd check with staff before making this your goal.

By "now" I meant that you have the ability for a group of elves to come together in the same way that a group of any other race would come together. (player created clans).
Not all tribes currently existing in the world have always existed throughout reverse eternity, or will exist forever.  Some tribes are formed from other tribes splitting either because of unrest between factions or because their environment can no longer sustain their numbers.  Some tribes are formed by the gathering of smaller tribes or family groups or individuals.

The fact that staff doesn't like PCs elves coming together to form small tribes within the walls of the city, doesn't change the fact that tribeless elves, armed with their overwhelming distrust for anyone but themselves, will likely find much reason to apply tests to determine those that are loyal, and those that are not. *bolded sections are excepts from the elven roleplay docs*  Staff has something against anyone coming together and calling themselves a tribe.  They only reason I've ever come up with for this is the dislike of the "loyalty" that the term implies.  I was playing a Kuraci once who was assisting an off-the-books minion and their mate rebuild a dying tribe.  We were pretty much told they couldn't call yourself a tribe IG.  Being restricted on the words that your PC uses in-character is kind of silly in my opinion.  I was also part of a long-lasting group of magickers that was esscentially working toward the same thing (this was probably two or three years after the Kuraci, and I never got any kind of ruff from staff in my reports referring to them as such (my PC was a escaped slave who's tribe had been enslaved or wiped out by Borsail, so his tribal mindset may have give me a pass when it came to OOC reports).

In order to be, in all forms of the word, a true "tribe" the group would probably need to last through two or three generations until at least some bond of blood and family is there.  But you are still going to need new blood coming in less you end up as inbred as Tuluki nobles (the real reason why Tuluk society is soon to crumble), but I hope the idea comes across.  That said, being told your group of mutually loyalty-tested elves can't call themselves a tribe while in game is, to me, about as silly as being docked karma for calling a surmac a hat in game.

[Patuk]

We get it. Everything is fine, elves can band together like it ain't no thang. I'm still going to be excited for my app.

[valeria]

That said, being told your group of mutually loyalty-tested elves can't call themselves a tribe while in game is, to me, about as silly as being docked karma for calling a surmac a hat in game.

You're preaching to the choir.  In my opinion, being able to form unrelated "tribes" out of the box through character applications/family roles is a completely different creature than banding together to make a "tribe" through IC events.  Still, where the line was drawn for me in May 2014 is that I could trust-test and band together with other elves all you want, but I would not be allowed to call these elves my character's "tribe."  It completely ruined a character concept that I had, and I wouldn't want anyone else to experience the same disappointment, which is why I suggested asking staff first.  For all I know, this policy changed with the family role documentation update.

[FantasyWriter]

I haven't ran into it much, but it always makes me give a funny look when staff says OOCly that you can't do something ICly.
They aren't saying that that what you are doing goes against the rules or documentation, they are saying that they don't agree with your character's IC decisions.
Calling your group a tribe IG is not something they could smack you down for IG.  It's not breaking any rule or documentation. I just don't get it.
Why does it matter on an OOC level that your PC think this piece of green stone is a emerald and calls it an emerald even though it is only a shiny piece of green marble?

The only other instance where I remember something blurring the IC/OOC line like this happening was when a player was chided because the IC reason they gave for not being around (storing) was joining an organization that was (while closed to PCs) still virtually open.  The PC could have very possibly joined this organization ICly, but because it was closed on an OOC level, they couldn't join it virtually after storage?