Mythology/Religion

[Tetra]

I see the elementals not so much as Gods, but building blocks of the world.  Think Lego. 

An example might be the Fates from Greek Mythology; rather than being just divine, they are incarnations of destiny.  The whole saga of the Gods plays out how they dictate it to, sort of like the 'stage'.  That is to say, elementals are not Gods or not not Gods.  They're pure embodiments of archetypal nature.

[valeria]

I moved some accidentally mis-posted posts into the appropriate thread, which was the I Went On A Date thread.  You may resume your mythology/religion discussion. 

[Jihelu]

I see the elementals not so much as Gods, but building blocks of the world.  Think Lego. 

An example might be the Fates from Greek Mythology; rather than being just divine, they are incarnations of destiny.  The whole saga of the Gods plays out how they dictate it to, sort of like the 'stage'.  That is to say, elementals are not Gods or not not Gods.  They're pure embodiments of archetypal nature.

I like that idea. Maybe someone could go nuts and say they are the god of their element later on, eh?

[Tetra]

I see the elementals not so much as Gods, but building blocks of the world.  Think Lego. 

An example might be the Fates from Greek Mythology; rather than being just divine, they are incarnations of destiny.  The whole saga of the Gods plays out how they dictate it to, sort of like the 'stage'.  That is to say, elementals are not Gods or not not Gods.  They're pure embodiments of archetypal nature.

I like that idea. Maybe someone could go nuts and say they are the god of their element later on, eh?

What do you think Sorcerer Kings do.. 

[aeglaeca]

I am actually interested in the idea of heresy, new religions, proclaiming yourself a gicker god, etc., but I guess with Tuluk closing half the potential religious implications are almost entirely in the hands of vNPCs.

It doesn't really seem like religion and any corresponding rituals are treated as an essential part of life in Zalanthas, which is fine, but since it didn't seem to be, I wondered if there was more of a consideration that elementals are like demigods or folk heroes-- powerful entities that exist and have some incredible power to them that commoners might occasionally ask for help from or curse at and stuff.

Outside of 'damn it, Whira's pissed again' with regard to sandstorms, there seems to be little else mentioned about them. The fact that gickers have so much to do with them and that these entities are still taken into daily speech is a little confusing to me, since it almost seems like elemental names should be more along the lines of He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named considering their associations.

In Nak, it doesn't appear there's any consequences to not going to morning devotions, and in Tuluk it never appeared there was any such thing as morning devotions. Luir's and Storm seem quite, well, agnostic is probably not the right word but something like agnostic. No one seems particularly interested in educating the commoners, so to speak, so outside of 'Light/Shade' it seems like there isn't too much impact of the actual religion/teachings/whatever of either city, nor is there much of anything by way of a priesthood. Which I guess is what everyone else said here. That being the case, are the templarate in practice ruling because of martial law with the Highlord/Sun King as figureheads? Are Nakki and Tuluki people actually loyal to or afraid of their respective sorcerer-kings, or just the templars who represent them?

[HavokBlue]

I am actually interested in the idea of heresy, new religions, proclaiming yourself a gicker god, etc., but I guess with Tuluk closing half the potential religious implications are almost entirely in the hands of vNPCs.

It doesn't really seem like religion and any corresponding rituals are treated as an essential part of life in Zalanthas, which is fine, but since it didn't seem to be, I wondered if there was more of a consideration that elementals are like demigods or folk heroes-- powerful entities that exist and have some incredible power to them that commoners might occasionally ask for help from or curse at and stuff.

These things aren't treated as an essential part of life in the cities because the cult of fear and/or adoration the sorceror kings have developed don't really function like spiritual religions and the system has no need to reinforce belief by preaching faith and adherence to a set of virtues because even the most avowed Tek-hater can't deny Tek's existence.

You start seeing far more variety, ritual, and spiritual presence when you look at the religious beliefs of Zalanthan tribes. An Akei Ta Var elf or maybe a Sun Runner or Arabeti might be fun for you if that's something you want to experience.

[aeglaeca]

because even the most avowed Tek-hater can't deny Tek's existence.

They can't deny he once existed, sure, but when was the last time he came out or did anything? (Uh... if this is a find out IC question, that's fine, it's almost rhetorical anyway.) Same in reverse. Couldn't people suggest these guys are dead/have lost their power/are in some sort of hibernation and attempt to overthrow their own or each others' governments?

You start seeing far more variety, ritual, and spiritual presence when you look at the religious beliefs of Zalanthan tribes. An Akei Ta Var elf or maybe a Sun Runner or Arabeti might be fun for you if that's something you want to experience.

Good to know! I'm super interested in the Akei perhaps one of them will be next when my current PC kicks the bucket.

[HavokBlue]

because even the most avowed Tek-hater can't deny Tek's existence.

They can't deny he once existed, sure, but when was the last time he came out or did anything? (Uh... if this is a find out IC question, that's fine, it's almost rhetorical anyway.) Same in reverse. Couldn't people suggest these guys are dead/have lost their power/are in some sort of hibernation and attempt to overthrow their own or each others' governments?

1627 (Year 10 Age 22)
A small army of Allanaki soldiers establish camp at Ten'Sarak. In reaction to the potential threat of an Allanaki move, the Tuluki fortress known as Ayun Iskandir sees increasingly high activity. Tensions and numbers rise on both sides as the two armies set out for Tyn Dashra. After scattered fighting on the borders and steppes, both forces meet to parlay, but neither side surrenders.

The two armies clash in a bloody battle. Suddenly, a great and powerful force was activated from somewhere in Tuluk, matched by a similar force in the Muark lands. Great beams of light spring into the air from each location. As the lights began to surge towards each other, the shadow of a dragon was sighted in the sky, swooping over Allanak, Luir's, towards Tuluk, and around the rest of the Known World before disappearing. After the beams of light connected, the land around Tyn Dashra was torn apart, great earthquakes rumbling outwards.

You could certainly make claims about the opposing king. There's a tattoo you can get in Allanak, I believe, that depicts a pyramid with a withered old corpse inside, probably a slam at Muk Utep.

[Jihelu]

Well. I don't consider the sorcerer kings god of an element per say, but an idea.
Tek, sorcerery in general, being a dragon, etc.
Muk Utep, sun, sun king, something about light, etc.

I just want someone to get really strong as a Ruk/Krathi/etc and just walk out one day, get a group of about 20 pcs or something, and proclaim "Welp, I'm god of this here lands, lets start a kingdom"
Of course not just straight that and even the kingdom part is a bit dumb, but saying "I am the paragon of earth/etc" is a good fun thing to do in most fantasy things (Now how fast someone decides you are a threat and murders you is proportionally equal to how many Met's you have slain with your god powers)

[Tetra]

The reason such spiritual RP doesn't happen very frequently in the cities is as Havok mentioned.  The Sorcerer-Kings rule through fear and indoctrination. 

Do you think someone raised their entire life being terrified of a God-like being would risk being caught or killed for worshipping some hedge spirits?  Some people(powerful people) will want to kill you just for claiming that you do so at all.  Forget god powers, even if you are the weakest of the weakest links and you show disloyalty, it could mean getting mantis head.

[valeria]

Do you think someone raised their entire life being terrified of a God-like being would risk being caught or killed for worshipping some hedge spirits?  Some people(powerful people) will want to kill you just for claiming that you do so at all.  Forget god powers, even if you are the weakest of the weakest links and you show disloyalty, it could mean getting mantis head.

Yes.  Because this has happened historically all the time.  There are always dissenting groups within larger groups, even in religious structures where dissent means death. 

[Tetra]

Do you think someone raised their entire life being terrified of a God-like being would risk being caught or killed for worshipping some hedge spirits?  Some people(powerful people) will want to kill you just for claiming that you do so at all.  Forget god powers, even if you are the weakest of the weakest links and you show disloyalty, it could mean getting mantis head.

Yes.  Because this has happened historically all the time.  There are always dissenting groups within larger groups, even in religious structures where dissent means death.  

Okay, let me rephrase that.  Do you think they would do it openly or publicly in a tyrannical city-state?  Def. not.

[slatefox]

Sorry for super-long post!

I personally would be delighted to see more blatant IC information about 'religion', particularly as it is practiced by the majority of commoners.

A long, long time ago, when I had played regularly, I got the sincere impression that the staff would not even tolerate player-made faiths, even those that were very in line with the game docs and world.  The most religious roleplay I had ever seen that did not immediately get you popped OOCly with a bad note or an 'ooc' scolding was when a few players would go outside the gates of Allanak at dawn and do a kneel-and-pray emote for Tek.

I have never been able to buy into the simple statements that 'life is too hard for people to believe in an afterlife' and 'everyone is an atheist', and to be perfectly honest, the OOC tenacity with which these statements were defended made me less interested in playing, because it made the game feel .... plastic.  Unreal.  It broke the suspension of disbelief because, logically, when you have several thousand uneducated, illiterate people living in squalor, with no concept of mental health, and surround them with events like third moons popping up out of nowhere, magic volcanoes, and invisible voices telling them what to do, you're going to get all sorts of ideas about gods, elements, elemental planes, death and the afterlife, etc.  The continuous cultural struggles just adds fuel to the fire (humans v. city elves, Tuluk v Allanak, delf v delf, gith and halflings and mantises and... you get the point).

ICly, it makes *perfect* sense for the established regime to squash out these heretics on sight (that, or try to use them to their advantage).  I get that.  What I don't get is that the established regime seems to not be a very important part of a common's life.  Tek might as well be as mystical as Suddam Hussein.

[HavokBlue]

That analogy would be accurate if Saddam Hussein was a 1000+ year old wizard who can turn into a dragon, shit fireballs, and bury heretics in a wave of sand.

[TheWanderer]

he said, with no proof that he wasn't

[Jihelu]

Do you think someone raised their entire life being terrified of a God-like being would risk being caught or killed for worshipping some hedge spirits?  Some people(powerful people) will want to kill you just for claiming that you do so at all.  Forget god powers, even if you are the weakest of the weakest links and you show disloyalty, it could mean getting mantis head.

Yes.  Because this has happened historically all the time.  There are always dissenting groups within larger groups, even in religious structures where dissent means death.  

Okay, let me rephrase that.  Do you think they would do it openly or publicly in a tyrannical city-state?  Def. not.

Well...
Maybe?
If you had enough people you could. Redstorm did it.
But well, not really spiritual from what I know.
Redstorm is essentially America, Nak is Britain.

[Asanadas]

Allanak is the UK. Red Storm is Sealand.

[Erythil]

Sorry for super-long post!

I personally would be delighted to see more blatant IC information about 'religion', particularly as it is practiced by the majority of commoners.

A long, long time ago, when I had played regularly, I got the sincere impression that the staff would not even tolerate player-made faiths, even those that were very in line with the game docs and world.  The most religious roleplay I had ever seen that did not immediately get you popped OOCly with a bad note or an 'ooc' scolding was when a few players would go outside the gates of Allanak at dawn and do a kneel-and-pray emote for Tek.

I have never been able to buy into the simple statements that 'life is too hard for people to believe in an afterlife' and 'everyone is an atheist', and to be perfectly honest, the OOC tenacity with which these statements were defended made me less interested in playing, because it made the game feel .... plastic.  Unreal.  It broke the suspension of disbelief because, logically, when you have several thousand uneducated, illiterate people living in squalor, with no concept of mental health, and surround them with events like third moons popping up out of nowhere, magic volcanoes, and invisible voices telling them what to do, you're going to get all sorts of ideas about gods, elements, elemental planes, death and the afterlife, etc.  The continuous cultural struggles just adds fuel to the fire (humans v. city elves, Tuluk v Allanak, delf v delf, gith and halflings and mantises and... you get the point).

ICly, it makes *perfect* sense for the established regime to squash out these heretics on sight (that, or try to use them to their advantage).  I get that.  What I don't get is that the established regime seems to not be a very important part of a common's life.  Tek might as well be as mystical as Suddam Hussein.

Religion being frowned upon on Arm probably has a lot to do with the fact that in the original Dark Sun setting that Arm is based off of, the gods are literally dead.  The situation however seems to be somewhat more nuanced than that on our game.

Most PC templar seem to be of the corrupt and cynical variety, which definitely means that there's relatively little representation of people who actually believe in the state cult or in religion generally.  Personally I'd let players try on the role of a white-order templar every now and then, to add that flavor.

[Jihelu]

Once again.
If we had more mad god/geniuses/scientists running around it would be more fun.