Discussion thread: Assorted Game Changes

[HavokBlue]

Since I imagine most clan leaders went into the role looking to entertain other people... I don't think you're going to need to worry a whole bunch, D-man. If Lord Templar Hardnose orders his knotty fuckwood bow and I tell Crafter Amos to make it, and he makes it, great. If he doesn't make it, I can go get a knotty fuckwood bow from the warehouse instead of trying to explain to Lord Templar Hardnose that while my merchant family has near limitless funds and ample resources, our one guy who can craft a knotty fuckwood bow stopped logging in.

I get that it will make templars and merchant House family/Agents happier.

I am worried about the affect on the grassroots producers and their sense of achievement.

I see where you're coming from, but I think it's less of an issue than you're making it out to be. When I played a GMH merchant, if no PCs were available to craft something, I ordered it through the NPC. I could always get this stuff from an NPC and probably with less hassle than making sure the order gets to Crafter Amos and Hunter Malik. I would still go to Crafter Amos and Hunter Malik first any time they were available.

[Semper]

Since I imagine most clan leaders went into the role looking to entertain other people... I don't think you're going to need to worry a whole bunch, D-man. If Lord Templar Hardnose orders his knotty fuckwood bow and I tell Crafter Amos to make it, and he makes it, great. If he doesn't make it, I can go get a knotty fuckwood bow from the warehouse instead of trying to explain to Lord Templar Hardnose that while my merchant family has near limitless funds and ample resources, our one guy who can craft a knotty fuckwood bow stopped logging in.

I get that it will make templars and merchant House family/Agents happier.

I am worried about the affect on the grassroots producers and their sense of achievement.

If it really is a problem, I think this just produces more incentive for independent merchants and hunters to become more viable, no?

[Desertman]

I really think you shouldn't speak on behalf of "the players" since not all of us share your point of view.

I didn't mean to give you the impression I thought I spoke for every player on ArmageddonMUD.

[Desertman]

Since I imagine most clan leaders went into the role looking to entertain other people... I don't think you're going to need to worry a whole bunch, D-man. If Lord Templar Hardnose orders his knotty fuckwood bow and I tell Crafter Amos to make it, and he makes it, great. If he doesn't make it, I can go get a knotty fuckwood bow from the warehouse instead of trying to explain to Lord Templar Hardnose that while my merchant family has near limitless funds and ample resources, our one guy who can craft a knotty fuckwood bow stopped logging in.

I get that it will make templars and merchant House family/Agents happier.

I am worried about the affect on the grassroots producers and their sense of achievement.

If it really is a problem, I think this just produces more incentive for independent merchants and hunters to become more viable, no?

More viable than an instant no-effort auto-NPC?

But that really isn't even the point. Independent groups shouldn't be able to compete with big Houses. It wouldn't make any sense if they could. In fact I like this facet of the idea. Big Houses should always be able to produce it better/faster/more efficiently.

[WithSprinkles]

I think most leaders would rather have happy, productive crews than a warehouse full of NPCs. They'd use the PCs first and an NPC only if they had to. And not simply if the PC logged out for the evening, but truly gave them a chance to do the work. Anyone hassling a sales rep IG for an item now, now, now is really missing the point of interaction, item values and production, I think.

The change is positive. From what I am understanding, it may even foster a wider understanding of recipes lost to the ages and items we haven't seen in a while? You'd still definitely want PC employees too, because mastercrafts and commissions, you know? Rare gathered or hunted items. Can't get that from a warehouse.

[Desertman]

I didn't consider mastercrafts would still require hunters IC'ly to provide materials for.

Good point.

I still do not feel it is optimal. But, I also don't think I can offer anything constructive beyond the feedback I have already given on that front.

We will see how it works out. I would be curious to see how valuable and useful PC hunters and crafters feel in Houses a RL year after this goes in.

[Barzalene]

There you go staff. Kick ass. Take names. Nice.

[Down Under]

Excellent changes. As Nyr said, why focus on one "possible" detriment when the changes are overwhelmingly positive?

I would recommend giving feedback when the change is actually live, rather than speculate idly in a way that seems somewhat dismissive of a change MANY in the Playerbase have been asking for.

Kudos Staff.

[Riev]

Excellent changes. As Nyr said, why focus on one "possible" detriment when the changes are overwhelmingly positive?

I mean, really, why focus and discuss a possible negative in a "discussion" thread? Thats definitely not what this thread is for.

[Down Under]

Excellent changes. As Nyr said, why focus on one "possible" detriment when the changes are overwhelmingly positive?

I mean, really, why focus and discuss a possible negative in a "discussion" thread? Thats definitely not what this thread is for.

Sarcasm is hardly a tool for debate.

It isn't even a 'possible negative' because the changes aren't even in game yet. I'd be curious to see if there is any actual detriment added to the game by these changes, and if it isn't just players trying to come up with something, because they like the sound of their own voice.

[Riev]

I'll debate when and if there's even a debate going on. It sounded like Desertman was saying "Hey, this is a good idea but I want to make sure it doesn't completely phase out this one thing I'm thinking of" and when Nyr said "No man we get it, we're good" that was kind of the end. Until someone mentioned it more and more.

[Patuk]

Excellent changes. As Nyr said, why focus on one "possible" detriment when the changes are overwhelmingly positive?

I mean, really, why focus and discuss a possible negative in a "discussion" thread? Thats definitely not what this thread is for.

Sarcasm is hardly a tool for debate.

It isn't even a 'possible negative' because the changes aren't even in game yet. I'd be curious to see if there is any actual detriment added to the game by these changes, and if it isn't just players trying to come up with something, because they like the sound of their own voice.

Don't be dense. It is a possible possible negative. The changes crashing the game and making everything unplayable isa possible negative. You can debate whether or not Desertman is correct or not, but right now all you're saying is 'you guuuuuys don't be so meeean stop it okay?'

[wizturbo]

We will see how it works out. I would be curious to see how valuable and useful PC hunters and crafters feel in Houses a RL year after this goes in.

Personally, I don't see why making these PC's feel useful is important, or even realistic to the setting.  I view the argument of trying to de-virtualize the supply chain of a GMH as akin to making clans get their own food and water.  Some people really think it would be cool, I think it would awful.

If you want to be super useful in Zalanthas, it generally means you're choosing to be so in a small pond.  Join a start up indie group, be their crafter or hunter, and you're literally the backbone of their organization.  Join a massive monopolistic super company like a GMH in one of those roles and you're just a cog in the wheel, completely replaceable.  The reason to play in one of the GMH's in one of those roles is to have a fun ride, have the coolest gear, and in the case of crafters have literally the best facilities and tools in the world for your craft.  Playing an indie makes you way more valuable to your org, but you don't get all the resources.  It's playing the underdog, which can be a lot of fun too.

[Down Under]

Not really.

I'm saying 'don't make problems out of thin air just because you can'. Let's see how it actually works IG before we pretend to know how it will work IG.

[Malken]

We will see how it works out. I would be curious to see how valuable and useful PC hunters and crafters feel in Houses a RL year after this goes in.

While I understand where you are coming from, I would think that a hunter's job is to hunt so he should continue doing what he does regardless of what's needed or not on a virtual and realistic basis. Unless a hunter is being paid per hides or shells, I don't really see what it matters to him and the House if he brings stuff that isn't needed.. The merchant PC can just junk it all or sell it or whatever and the hunter continues to receive his pay as normal..

Unless you mean that if the House doesn't have any decent hunters then they shouldn't be able to produce the items they want, but that's always been a "problem" with Arm, you gotta play/pretend that you're just a hunter among hundreds and if there's no hunter around, there's probably tons of virtual ones.

So hunters will still hunt regardless of if they're needed or not, but let's be honest, until Talia the rich Fme comes along and demands a full suit of quirri leathers, hunter PCs have never really been -crucial- to the success of a PC merchant.

[Kol]

These seriously excite me.

How will you be recruiting for Builder roles?

[Jihelu]

If we don't have a "Build the most stupid room you could possibly think of "contest I'm going to be severely disappointed.

[Patuk]

I think they already do, and the winning room id then awarded to be the newest staffer's personal studio.

[Jihelu]

I think they already do, and the winning room id then awarded to be the newest staffer's personal studio.

I'm claiming the rainbow fire hut.

[Nyr]

How will you be recruiting for Builder roles?

We will probably need to develop something similar to a staff application process and put out calls for it periodically.  It would probably be aimed at availability, world interests, writing style/skill, communication/contribution history, and familiarity/experience with the game.  The most important parts of any application (staff app, role app, builder app) would be who it is from and how they communicate their ideas.

[Cavaticus]

Man, that's a great idea. First thing I'm doing is hijacking a builder to make my crappy workrooms better.

[Talia]

Man, that's a great idea. First thing I'm doing is hijacking a builder to make my crappy workrooms better.

priorities amirite

[Patuk]

Does this mean I get to piss everyone off being on staff?

[Jeax]

priorities amirite

What are priorities?

Also, I am going to sneak in under the guise of building what they told me to, and then I'm going to build a giant inflatable duck that you can go inside like a castle and it has a light-up disco floor, accessible via rope ladder. Also, there's an ankheg inside.

[Centurion]

"Addition of NPCs in GMH Warehouses loaded with all stock items to reduce amount or item ordering".

Omg yes yes yes. Thankyou. Now you have convinced me to store and go back to GMH 

Seriously though. The whole idea for the thread of changes going in and planned for the future is a great idea. Its really encouraging for me as a player to see plans the Staff have and some idea whats ahead.