Opinion on magick as a feature of the game

[Malken]

My only complaint about magick is I do not like the idea that a single player, regardless of their karma level, has the absolute ability to insta-gank someone's long-lived character any time they feel like it no matter where they are.

This is no longer true.

Yeah, Halaster retired long ago.

[Tetra]

My problems with magick has nothing to do with the frequency it is seen, but rather how magickers are treated by normal people, and how accepted gemmed magickers are, and peoples interactions with magick in unrealistic manners... And all sorts of other things that have nothing to do with wanting to see more or less magick.

I see two sides to this.  Gemmed are not accepted by any stretch of the imagination, they are very much pariahs and the roleplay in Allanak has demonstrated that on numerous occasions so far.  On the other hand, while magickers -are- reviled, they are still people; people with personalities, goals, hopes, wants, like every other PC in the game.

Being an outcast does not automatically cancel these things out, or make a gemmed be less likely to speak up about them. 

It's my experience that a charismatic PC, whether mutant, magicker, whatever -- they will get attention and interaction from others.  And frankly, they should.  Because it's either that, or the magicker sits around alone casting their spells(which ironically seems to also be a big point of discussion people like to groan about).

Roleplaying realistically is not just being a static entity.  Actually, that is highly unrealistic.  Relationships change and evolve based on experiences with others, and that change is what brings realism.

[Is Friday]

Go make some gemmy friends, Tetra. It'll work out fantastically for you.

[wizturbo]

I've also seen a range on how accepted a Gemmed is or isn't.  A Gemmed whose fought in a dozen battles alongside the Templarate and saved the life of Lord Purplepants Fale during the great rat invasion is bound to have a few friends.   The same would be true of a half-breed who worked their way up to Byn Sergaent with an impressive track record.   Some random Gemmed who hasn't done jack shit?  They don't seem to have many friends from what I can tell.  People might not threaten them in the bar, but they aren't exactly buying them a drink and chatting it up. 

[Eyeball]

My only complaint about magick is I do not like the idea that a single player, regardless of their karma level, has the absolute ability to insta-gank someone's long-lived character any time they feel like it no matter where they are.

This is no longer true.

Elementalists always were glass cannoneers. Fire a big shot once in a while but useless while reloading and dead if overrun by the infantry.

So now they've had the "fire a big shot" taken away too? What does that leave them with other than a bit of spying? Just the role of despised support characters, it would seem.

[wizturbo]

Elementalists always were glass cannons. Fire a big shot once in a while but useless while reloading and dead if overrun.

So now they've had the "fire a big shot" taken away too? What does that leave them with other than a bit of spying? Just flavor characters, it would seem.

Oh no... believe me, magick is still extremely dangerous and powerful.  Many years ago, there were some insane shenanigans that could be done with certain spells or combinations of spells that were truly game breaking.  Those days are long past though, and magick went from ungodly overpowered to just super scary. 

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

I don't give a shit, actually. Fine with more magick, fine with less magick. I've played one magicker in 16 years. One bender, and maybe one sorcerer.

I like my mundanes.

[Desertman]

I don't give a shit, actually. Fine with more magick, fine with less magick. I've played one magicker in 16 years. One bender, and maybe one sorcerer.

I like my mundanes.

Same. I can't even recall the last magicker I played.

I just don't like giving another player an "Instant Flawless Delete Button" for my PC that I may have a RL year or more on that requires no more effort in general than typing out "Cast Mon Un Instant Death From Anywhere Any Time", after sitting around spam casting for a few RL weeks to spam their skills up.

Why don't we just give them a command that says, "Delete Character Name" that has a global effect.....it is exactly the same thing.

(But I'm glad to hear it apparently was taken out of the game. So, my complaint is moot it would seem.)

[Barzalene]

I always store my non-mundanes. Except for the one Kishime killed.

[Narf]

Last time I played an elementalist, Tuluk still had temples to cast in and there was no karma system. I keep thinking I'd like to try one of those new-fangled magic classes, but then I get great idea for mundane #105 and I push it to the back burner.

That said, the most interaction I've had with magic in the last year is stumbling across some long-abandoned spell effects lingering in the wastes. Given this, I'm fine with magic as it is. I don't like it and I hardly ever have to deal with it!

[Aruven]

I'm glad i came back to this thread.

The problem with magick isn't coded anymore as I see it, its in how magick is played out by both players and the staff.

I'll take some shots here I guess.

I think its ridiculous that you have an entire quarter of magick in a city, with no staff support anymore. If you want magick you have to join the ONLY option available, and everyone knows what house i'm talking about. Or you can take your pick at hoping a staffer has time to know your element, plotlines, and run independent. This is not really my experience with these things.

This is not all true if you are a veteran who has played enough magickers to go off and do some risky, gamey independent plots and things for a RL year until youre strong enough to come associate as an outlaw with everyone. (Or take a gem and play either alone in a temple or in that one place again, exciting on time 10 right?)

I don't want to see another house suddenly employing mages to fix stuff like this, I want different options available to mages. Here's an example.

If I play a magicker, and I talk back to a noble or a templar, I will die. This goes for a lot of people, but especially for magickers. There will never be a 'popular faction' or 'popular figure' amongst the gemmed. There won't ever be any 'dissent' because anyone who isn't sticking their tongue up a noble's ass when they are around dies. magick life. Resist authority even verbally? Anyone who tries that type of stuff is cut down immediately (See magick life). So in most ways, you've directly taken out meaningful interaction and conflict between a 'gemmed magicker' and an entire city of aristocracy already. Taking meaningful conflict (or just the opportunity for it) away from me as an option does not make me excited to play.

It is for this reason I find mages extremely boring most often. I rarely play them. After the first couple of times it became the same thing over and over because I just couldn't work it out progressing a mage without straight up taking a gem and learning about the mechanics from other veterans and stuff. I'm probably not alone in that because i've played this game for a long time and I imagine its still difficult.

You are relegated to exploring the range of reactions people have to you when they rarely come into your quarter, or you are called out of a quarter by someone who has the juice to order you around. Or you decide to get desperate and tavern sit. People complain about magickers being in their temple spamming up their skills? Create some meaningful roleplay for them and stop being boring, or better yet instantly lethal, I bet you'll see them more often. People that play magickers are at a minimum, experienced.

I actually almost find it bad roleplay to see gemmed hanging out in bars. In my head I try to figure out why that player thinks their character would be welcome at a place like a tavern, let alone the Gaj. Unless that player is actively looking for ridicule and derogatory attacks, they wouldn't do that. You know why gemmed go to bars? I am convinced it is because they are desperate for some player to player interaction on an OOC level because their temple is boring as fuck and so is spamming up skills.

You may ask yourself why Gemmed sit in temples spamming up skills all of a sudden ; Reality check: There's not much else for them to do unless they join that ONE HOUSE. You can't spar in apartments or temples, you rarely have someone of your element around to show you the ropes, any walk outside of your quarter can instantly be a death sentence, and you can't join a merchant house or any other house. So you are left with your temple, because let me tell you, day 1 magickers do not survive outside a wall alone very often. (This is why you often see, lets face it - magick/crafting combos) (Unless you are in that elite category of people who survive outside the walls from the start)

**For the sake of this argument I am excluding individuals who wait to show their manifestations for a few years IG, that's a whole different avenue and often exciting**

When I played my last gemmer a couple years ago, I tried to bring someone into a plot of mine I had worked out with staff. This is like one of the only times in my life I ever tried to work out an independent plot line. It got crazy - within like 48 hours back in allanak I tried to drag another player into the plotline and that person ran to the [Redacted] IMMEDIATELY ----> The next thing to happen is that 'something' teleports about half of  the [redacted] of allanak into the same room with me and I insta-die. All the hours and emails of planning gone in a split second on someone elses total power trip. So... I don't trust players to responsibly handle anything other than your average boring gemmer story anyways.

I guess I am saying when it comes to magick, I see the glaring weaknesses being around the 'Gemmed' culture specifically. Its a very undefined, stifling, and equally fascinating aspect of the game I think needs a lot of work and some revamping. its not one area or one person, its how they are played, how they are interacted with, and what their options are. I don't see any coded absurdities much these days.

Remember, i'm part of that vocal minority though. Maybe everyone else loves it.

[KankWhisperer]

Oh magick, you deus ex machina to maintain the status quo you.

Magickers are super breeds. Look at me! I am going to play something everyone is required to hate then go on a murdering spree later when said hate has made me all angry and stuff.

If magick was gone or toned down and it was packs of mundanes going against each other, I don't really think it would be less fun,murder,corruption, and betrayal, Then you have to actually get someone to infiltrate that group to spy instead of 'magick'. It would be interesting if say a templar could boost himself to being as serious threat as a 'mek but having mountain dropping invulnerable templar adds nothing but an excuse as to why you can't do anything meaningful.

[Talia]

I think its ridiculous that you have an entire quarter of magick in a city, with no staff support anymore. If you want magick you have to join the ONLY option available, and everyone knows what house i'm talking about. Or you can take your pick at hoping a staffer has time to know your element, plotlines, and run independent. This is not really my experience with these things.

Your belief about how things work for gemmed in terms of clan staff is incorrect. Gemmed who are not in Oash report to the AoD staffer; they have just as much staff access as any other non-leader PC does. Non-gemmed mages would report to independent staff, and, again--they have just as much staff access as any other non-leader PC does.

[Beethoven]

The last magicker I played wasn't exactly what you'd call "popular"--far from it, I'd say, in fact--but I keep hearing his name come up every now and then, so I'd say it was a success!

[Aruven]

I think its ridiculous that you have an entire quarter of magick in a city, with no staff support anymore. If you want magick you have to join the ONLY option available, and everyone knows what house i'm talking about. Or you can take your pick at hoping a staffer has time to know your element, plotlines, and run independent. This is not really my experience with these things.

Your belief about how things work for gemmed in terms of clan staff is incorrect. Gemmed who are not in Oash report to the AoD staffer; they have just as much staff access as any other non-leader PC does. Non-gemmed mages would report to independent staff, and, again--they have just as much staff access as any other non-leader PC does.

I am aware an avenue supposedly exists to support gemmed. I think its rather half-hearted, and i'd like to see how other people who have played a few mages as gemmed feel about it. I should have said 'little' not 'no' staff support.

I suppose more constructively I am trying to start a conversation about the limited options of gemmed mages up until this point in time. A good example being that as a community, their gameplay is so directed into one of a few narrow places; that they don't even have a single staffer assigned to working with them specifically. I imagine we're talking about 5 - 10 players at any given point in time MINIMUM every waking hour that ginka runs as a server. Thats a clan, collectively. Thats actually bigger than some active PC clans.

I as a long-time player can enjoy any set of rules, that's kind of what armageddon is about; Not getting your way and then responding to that. I'm pointing out that there are some irregularities with this portion of the game's community in my subjective experience.

**Clarification: Not to be saying 'staff' are half-hearted, I'm sure some staffers work hard to help certain individuals they have time to. To me the idea of not bothering to even have some sort of staff and organization for that community, is half-hearted as a general concept.

[Bushranger]

The last magicker I played wasn't exactly what you'd call "popular"--far from it, I'd say, in fact--but I keep hearing his name come up every now and then, so I'd say it was a success!

To be honest Beethoven, Luir Dragonthrall wasn't your average magicker.

Oops! I've said too much about your previous character!

[Aruven]

The last magicker I played wasn't exactly what you'd call "popular"--far from it, I'd say, in fact--but I keep hearing his name come up every now and then, so I'd say it was a success!

Oops! I've said too much about your previous character!

[FantasyWriter]

My experience with unclanned PCs (90+ percent of my more than 100) is that the best way to enjoy your playtime, especially where plots are concerened, is to not rely on stuff that requires staff support.  This is nothing against our staffers, but make your own fun, keep them aware of what you are up to where it concerns other characters and clans.  Don't look at staff like Dungeon Masters. We are all our own DMs, we can go out and do whatever we want within the realm of what fits inside the rules of the game world (even when it is trying to break those rules).  I think this goes doubly so for magick users.

ICly a vivaduan could pick a spot out in the sands and over the course of a couple years, turn it into an oasis (alone).  A merchant can't do that. A ranger can't do that. A warrior can't do that.  Hell, a templar can't even do that because their boss would smack them for cutting in on water temple sales.

Magick users have abilities that go beyond their coded skills, because, they -are- supernatural.  The ability to make chances to the world is very tempting to exploit, it can also be very frustrating when you realized that it is much harder to accomplish things on an OOC level that it would be for your character to do it in game. That's just the reality of this sandbox.

Start your plots small, with goals you can accomplish on your own without any support, then move on to to finding whatever support you can that is attainable through your access terminal.  Take your time.  Protect yourself in every way that is possible (this is where I usually slack because of impatience). Gain momentum.  Push the boundaries of what you can accomplish in your role, carefully choose others to help you and push aspects of your goals for you.  Sometimes you will choose the wrong people, and they will set you back.  Find a way to turn their failures to your advantage or remove them from your path and influence.  It may be cynical of me, but if you are always relying on others to provide or approve of your fun you probably aren't really enjoying your play that much.

[Aruven]

Hey man, this is good advice.

This should be applied to more than just gemmed.

[Eyeball]

ICly a vivaduan could pick a spot out in the sands and over the course of a couple years, turn it into an oasis (alone).

I think the words you're missing are "in theory".

[Tetra]

I don't want to see another house suddenly employing mages to fix stuff like this, I want different options available to mages. Here's an example.

I would like to see this as well(currently organizing a proposition for something of a larger magnitude, but waiting before I ask through request tool).  Actually, I think other houses employing mages is not a terrible idea at all.  It would certainly create some magicker vs magicker conflict and produce some twists and turns in overarching plots happening in the city and increase RP cohesion.

ICly a vivaduan could pick a spot out in the sands and over the course of a couple years, turn it into an oasis (alone).  A merchant can't do that. A ranger can't do that. A warrior can't do that.  Hell, a templar can't even do that because their boss would smack them for cutting in on water temple sales.

I would say with heavy, tactful roleplay and given the magicker is powerful enough, much sooner than that.  It's an interesting idea, albeit of little consequence because it doesn't really increase the level of interactivity with the rest of the playerbase.

[FantasyWriter]

ICly a vivaduan could pick a spot out in the sands and over the course of a couple years, turn it into an oasis (alone).

I think the words you're missing are "in theory".

Yes, that was my point.   If you are always asking staff if you can do X or if they will do Y for you, your time could probably be better speant in game doing it and just keep staff up to date on what you've done/ plan to do.

It isn't a "better to ask forgiveness that permission" mindset, either. You don't need staff's permission to pursue plots (so long as they fall within the OOC rules and scope of the game).

I work with several people who have to literally be told everything they need to do for their job (and some of them have worked there longer than I've been alive).  I don't particuarly care for baby sitting these people, which I end up doing on a regular basis.  Staff are not your babysitters or parents or teachers or bosses.  Don't rely on them to tell you how to play your character or whether or not your character has permission to wipe after going poo.

[Wday]

I would like to see each class of magick come with four types of casting emote.
This way it gives a bit new flare and maybe have it in starting room to pick from.

[Jihelu]

I would like to see each class of magick come with four types of casting emote.
This way it gives a bit new flare and maybe have it in starting room to pick from.

Better yet, give different kinds of spells cast emotes.
Maybe even a few.
Maybe make it custom.
Breath a fire ball out of your mouth.
Gain wind to fly through your butt.
Cry out tears to make water.
ETC.

[Delirium]

That's what the emote system is for.