Armageddon General Discussion Board

I've noticed quite a few posts that seem that air a rather negative opinion on magick, magick use, and magickers in general on the GDB. I am wondering if this may be a vocal minority, or if the playerbase is for whatever reason taking to a dislike of magick in general, or if I am just making assumptions. What is your opinion on magick's place in game and how frequent it is?

Would you quit armageddon of magickers were nuked from orbit?

I don't bump into magickers often in a way where they change what I'm doing or effect my play. When I do I feel they fit the setting and are generally well played.

i've not experienced magic yet - but i will say, I want to see more magic in the game.

I dont know, maybe people have gotten used to the IC idea of hating magic they take it onto the GBD.

But a fantasy world that has a history of magic, even if its hated, feared, and the users hunted.

Removing magic from the game would eliminate a major 'mystery' element of the world.

if anything, I'd want to see -more- magic, more things happening from magic. More plots involving it. (possibly stemming from my lack of having SEEN any.)

just the -presence-  of magic can spice up any plot, in my opinon.

Magick has it's place in the mythos of Zalanthas. I think the level it is at is just fine.

Notes that most of the options on the post are anti magick... You know I get magick was overboard in 2007 but now its totally swung the other way. The code for magick in this game is out fucking standing. If they ditched magickers I would seriously stop playing. I have hands down more fun running around with mages than I do doing anything else in this game :P

I feel a lot of the people that hate magick, hate it because it's no longer a mystery to them.

Quote from: Majikal on March 06, 2015, 04:58:28 PM
I feel a lot of the people that hate magick, hate it because it's no longer a mystery to them.

Yeah, and there's simply a part of me who flat out refuse to be awed/afraid when I play mundane #3512562363 and I see spell X for the 3513636326419 time in my Armageddon life.

I've never had a character thats fucked around with magickers, that being said all of mine had been up in Tuluk at some point, but if I had a plot come up that was like "There was some magic fuck over here" I'd probably get right the fuck out of there. Magick is scary to characters most of the time, and while oocly I'd like to play around, my character would probably rather fight something twice his height with his bare hands before he messed with one.

Though I like the idea of magic in the game as a whole.

But I might get bored of it if I interact with it on a character for a lot, like all things.

Quote from: MeTekillot on March 06, 2015, 04:44:34 PM
I've noticed quite a few posts that seem that air a rather negative opinion on magick, magick use, and magickers in general on the GDB. I am wondering if this may be a vocal minority, or if the playerbase is for whatever reason taking to a dislike of magick in general, or if I am just making assumptions.

It's just the hate-cycle turning.

I never played during the much reviled Gemmed Power Rangers period of the game, and I think if anything things have tilted too far in the opposite direction.  I'd like to see rare reaches and other unusual spell related things come back into the game.

On the other hand, I don't really like the fact that there's a godlike superclass aristocracy of magic users (black robes/kings) that are so far above players as to render our collective efforts meaningless if they decide to stir from their collective slumber.  Maybe they could all die fighting ancient aliens or something.

I'm the other, but I meant "I'm fine with the current amount of magick in game".  I missclicked

Quote from: Marauder Moe on March 06, 2015, 05:03:40 PM

Quote from: MeTekillot on March 06, 2015, 04:44:34 PM
I've noticed quite a few posts that seem that air a rather negative opinion on magick, magick use, and magickers in general on the GDB. I am wondering if this may be a vocal minority, or if the playerbase is for whatever reason taking to a dislike of magick in general, or if I am just making assumptions.

It's just the hate-cycle turning.

Ikr Shame there isn't more of a place for mages in the game. The staff that did code for this have my eternal love. Swoons for Morg and Xygax (im guessing)

Quote from: Erythil on March 06, 2015, 05:03:56 PM
I never played during the much reviled Gemmed Power Rangers period of the game

The gemmed where not the twinkest of mages in the game during that period just saying....Nor do I approve of being called a power ranger.  ;) :P

people who think magick isn't a mystery anymore probably don't know as much about magick as they think they do, and i am including those people who learned stuff about magick in illicit ways OOCly. just saying.

Outside my delf clan I have only seen majick  cast once. No twice, if you count His whatever He does as that. And after effects less than ten.
Speaking from the pov of nonmilitary pcs. And I work during most HRPTs. My one witch never manifested but her spells looked juicy.
One of the joys of (some) tribal clans is having 'gickers for friends.

It's almost unfortunate that it's up to players of magickers to make magick mysterious. Not that I'm really into critiquing roleplay, but it's something I don't often see being played up. From what I see magickers have a tendency to either play normal and make friends or go the petty villain route and while I'm not actually against it, I feel like it's a shame that there feels like a much more mystical variety ever seems to crop up.

Come to think about it, it might just be the nature of the game we play. As we write our characters, we are both author and protagonist. How do you play a mysterious character when it is no mystery to the player itself?

Quote from: Jingo on March 06, 2015, 05:29:08 PM
It's almost unfortunate that it's up to players of magickers to make magick mysterious. Not that I'm really into critiquing roleplay, but it's something I don't often see being played up. From what I see magickers have a tendency to either play normal and make friends or go the petty villain route and while I'm not actually against it, I feel like it's a shame that there feels like a much more mystical variety ever seems to crop up.

Come to think about it, it might just be the nature of the game we play. As we write our characters, we are both author and protagonist. How do you play a mysterious character when it is no mystery to the player itself?

Implicit in there is a great character concept: a gick who goes around freaking herself out from her own spells - a mystery unto herself.

Meh.  The helpfiles kind of suggest against playing your magicker as a mysterious stereotype rather than a person.

I think the magick is fine as-is in game. What I don't want is to be a mundane and see magick used. Ever, if I can help it. Unless I'm running around with a Templar's warband, or I'm being killed by it.

Quote from: Zoan on March 06, 2015, 05:55:08 PM
I think the magick is fine as-is in game. What I don't want is to be a mundane and see magick used. Ever, if I can help it. Unless I'm running around with a Templar's warband, or I'm being killed by it.

To clarify things for me, are you saying that you are fine with magick as a concept and in the hands of the "almighty-sorcerer kings-black robe-Glass celling NPCs," but that it is not an experience you want in the hands of other players?

I can understand the appeal of playing a non-powered individual in a society that is subjugated by the powerful; essentially this is the "base" game.

Or, are you saying that you prefer there not being a use/display of it outside of the arcane version of killing someone with a bone sword?

Edit: As for myself, I did play during the Power Ranger period and had both Gemmed and Un-Gemmed magical characters involved in the high-magick plots of the time.  I also played during the "Great Karma-Off" where a number of players gave up their magicker karma options as a sign of support for lowering the amount of magick there was IG (I can't claim I supported that movement; I'd given up my magicker karma of the time because I felt I was just a shitty mage-player and was afraid I'd have it taken from me if I continued to play them the way I had been).  Both periods were enjoyable in their ways and each had someone calling for a return or at least an increase in the presence of the other.  "Too Much" is only, IMO, too much when it is the dominate feel IG by the majority of the player-base instead of a few discontented posts on the GDB.

I don't know how much magick is in the game currently, so I don't know whether or not I want more in it. My perspective, for what it's worth: I've played several mages, some gemmed, some rogue, one desert elf in a clan that "specialized" in a certain type of magick. I have had characters who had significant interaction with mages, even if mine weren't mages themselves. I've had characters killed by mages, and killed because of mages. I've seen most of the spells on most of the spell lists, and all of the spells on a couple of them. I've seen room reach before it was eliminated and I've seen sorcery and have had my own mage character's magick "shifted" to something other than what it started with (too IC to explain further, but it has nothing to do with branching spells, sorry).

I LIKE magicks in my fantasy gaming experience. It'd be pointless without it, might as well be just another dreary detective game. I'm not so fond of the whole group-hunt buff and spellup sessions, I like that magicks are intended to be scary and its use to be uncommon.

By uncommon, I don't mean rare. There could be a kajillion mages - but if they're secret mages, then their magicks become uncommon. That is to say, not commonly seen or known about. Daily interaction with magicks, by non-mages, should be rare.

I'd like to see full-blown sorcery returned as playable. I'd like to see room reach returned. I'd love to see clan role sponsorship posts from the staff NOT specify "mundanes only" anymore. I'd love nothing more than to discover - in game - that the head of Kadius is a psi-sorc. Or that Lord Jabooboo Fale is actually a mindbender. Or perhaps -not- discover it - but also not know for absolute positive that it isn't possible, because the staff keeps saying "mundanes only."

For me, that's where the mystery lies. Not in the magicks themselves (since that mystery is mostly gone for me) but the discovery - or inability to discover - who is, who isn't, and which kind of witch.

Quote from: Bast on March 06, 2015, 05:08:16 PM

Quote from: Marauder Moe on March 06, 2015, 05:03:40 PM

Quote from: MeTekillot on March 06, 2015, 04:44:34 PM
I've noticed quite a few posts that seem that air a rather negative opinion on magick, magick use, and magickers in general on the GDB. I am wondering if this may be a vocal minority, or if the playerbase is for whatever reason taking to a dislike of magick in general, or if I am just making assumptions.

It's just the hate-cycle turning.

Ikr Shame there isn't more of a place for mages in the game. The staff that did code for this have my eternal love. Swoons for Morg and Xygax (im guessing)

Wouldn't it be interesting if there were a city-state where only magickers could be nobles?   8)

Half-giant magicker noble.

I'm shocked to see these pole results...  I was expecting a lot more magick hate when it came to a vote...i guess the magick haters are just a vocal minority on the GDB.

This thread is making me really happy, because I think magick is one of the things Armageddon does amazingly well.  There's just SOOO much depth to the system.  It's filled with secrets, dangers, and little awesome nuances that still surprise me to this day.

I am pleased with the amount of magick currently in-game but I do wish to see more hate/fear roleplayed.

Quote from: Gunnerblaster on March 06, 2015, 11:58:47 PM
I am pleased with the amount of magick currently in-game but I do wish to see more hate/fear roleplayed.

I think the hardest dichotomy is that magick is hated and feared yet legal in Allanak with the gem. That's where you have two diametrically opposed values clashing: condone (gemmed) magickers because they are CLEARLY valuable to Oashis and Templars, vs hate/fear them because magick in general is evil. People generally don't want to piss off Oashis/Templars. It ends up being a SECRET hate.

So, I think there's PLENTY of hate/fear being ROLEPLAYED. That doesn't mean it's outwardly roleplayed. Hopefully it's at least within thinks/feels and hemotes that you're not picking up.

You dont need to secretly hate them. Oashi and Templars wwon't give a fuck as long as you aren't lynching them in the goddamn street.

I think most people think they know a lot about magick and rightfully get their clocks cleaned when knowledgeable players play a magicker. (Like me!) I feel as though many players at the 1-3 year vet status have a false sense of competence in regards to what they know about the game in general. Not wanting to RP fear for magickers stems from not actually being afraid of magickers, imo. "Oh, I can't be killed by this mage if I just do X and Y or they can't do Z". Okay buddy.

Never die, my fat tribal water mage that couldn't be killed.

Quote from: Is Friday on March 07, 2015, 11:10:48 AM
I think most people think they know a lot about magick and rightfully get their clocks cleaned when knowledgeable players play a magicker. (Like me!) I feel as though many players at the 1-3 year vet status have a false sense of competence in regards to what they know about the game in general. Not wanting to RP fear for magickers stems from not actually being afraid of magickers, imo. "Oh, I can't be killed by this mage if I just do X and Y or they can't do Z". Okay buddy.

Never die, my fat tribal water mage that couldn't be killed.

I'm in that range and I'm totally freaked out by magic - and hitching multiple mounts.

(http://i.imgur.com/vuT7uiR.png)

Quote from: Is Friday on March 07, 2015, 11:47:20 AM
(http://i.imgur.com/vuT7uiR.png)

That seems about right!  Now overlay it with fear of hitching multiple mounts - I think it'd be about the same.

I think currently PC magick levels are fine. Your hear about magick or you might see a gemmer in the gaj or wandering around town. You might also see something strange from afar once or twice an IC year. Its there but its not in your face unless you go looking for it sort of there. It fits the lore.

I think gemmers/rogue magickers are hated and loathed enough that their players sometimes feel so isolated they store and role a ranger, I know I've done that more than once. As for fear, the code handles that well. For those that thing a magicker is easy to kill, well they might be in for a surprise. Equally, any magicker that thinks they can act like douche and/or terrorize mundanes is going to be in for a surprise too.   I feel the code and the world's reaction to it is pretty fair when it comes to magick.

That said while I think PC magickal levels are fine, its potential virtual magickal levels that are way too high. We've had players also complain about the glass ceiling for players being to low but again I feel this is just a product of  the virtual power ceiling is just so ridiculously high. The fact that sorcery kings exist really trivializes the story lines the playerbase experiences. I mean despite the battles,spies, etc etc...the war between tuluk and allanak, comes down to this, who can win in a one on one fight, Muk or Tek.  Thanks to the rhetoric and hype over sorcerer kings over the years, nothing else really matter that much.  And when you do get a cool plot like the spy plot, it almost feels jarring it could have happened under the nose of these all-knowing and all-powerful immortal beings.

It is not to say a volcano being moved across the known can't still happen, its just there should have been some very visible, noticeably obvious and serious detrimental consequences to such a enormous world changing act. Something like 10-20% of allanak's population suddenly dying in order to fund the energy costs of such an endeavor. Heck even 30% of allanak's population would have been a cheap price to pay to get rid of those gypsies.

Quote from: Dresan on March 07, 2015, 01:34:31 PM
Something like 10-20% of allanak's population suddenly dying in order to fund the energy costs of such an endeavor. Heck even 30% of allanak's population would have been a cheap price to pay to get rid of those gypsies.

find out IC

Quote from: MeTekillot on March 07, 2015, 01:42:53 PM

Quote from: Dresan on March 07, 2015, 01:34:31 PM
Something like 10-20% of allanak's population suddenly dying in order to fund the energy costs of such an endeavor. Heck even 30% of allanak's population would have been a cheap price to pay to get rid of those gypsies.

find out IC

Quote from: Dresan on March 07, 2015, 01:34:31 PM
its just there should have been some very visible, noticeably obvious and serious detrimental consequences to such a enormous world changing act.

Na.

I can't really spell it out for you without giving it away but it's something you may want to look into as a magickally-inclined character or a person who has a reason to look into magick

Quote from: MeTekillot on March 07, 2015, 01:58:00 PM
I can't really spell it out for you without giving it away but it's something you may want to look into as a magickally-inclined character or a person who has a reason to look into magick

I have an idea. However, you are still missing my point. If its something someone needs to find out IC, role a magicker, or frankly do anything other then role a character anywhere in the known, then it wasn't obvious enough, noticeable enough, or detrimental enough to warrants a storyline that involves a volcano being moved across the known. In short, I still feel the IC power levels are way way too high and I feel they need to be lowered,perhaps to the point where its not find out IC but just look in the history page, because even amos the grebber is likely to notice their leaders and city hurting in a catastrophic way for quite some time after committing such an act.

Quote from: Dresan on March 07, 2015, 02:13:05 PM
....because even amos the grebber is likely to notice their leaders and city hurting in a catastrophic way for quite some time after committing such an act.

What makes you think Tektolnes wants His City to pay the price of his magick?  Maybe he chose to draw his life enery from something else...?

Quote from: wizturbo on March 07, 2015, 02:24:25 PM

Quote from: Dresan on March 07, 2015, 02:13:05 PM
....because even amos the grebber is likely to notice their leaders and city hurting in a catastrophic way for quite some time after committing such an act.

What makes you think Tektolnes wants His City to pay the price of his magick?  Maybe he chose to draw his life enery from something else...?

I like to imagine it was from elves.

Quote from: wizturbo on March 07, 2015, 02:24:25 PM
What makes you think Tektolnes wants His City to pay the price of his magick?  Maybe he chose to draw his life enery from something else...?

You mean something else that might coincidentally be something I wouldn't mind seeing gone too? Perhaps, perhaps. I won't lie, regardless of how it went down, a lot of the results of the HRPT did bring a big smile to my face.  :D


Anyways, long story short I still want to see Sorcerer kings and perhaps some of their top tier loyal lackeys gone too but PC magickers and their level are fine as they are.  

thats a lotta ic info there, amos

It's right there in the chronology. Probably helps if you know a bit about the Dark Sun setting - something that also applies to the chronology's very first entry.

I think it's fine as is (if not even needing a boost). They don't need to be nerfed or anything like that.

The only time when it was out of control (since I've played) was 2011-2012(?). Rogue and gemmed magickers would run off to the Pah, try to make friends with d-elves (really...) and twink cast out there. Their was no cheques or balances to it. I make my SLK as a witch hunter to try and quell this. I slaughtered a heap of magickers and they all left the Pah (and if they stayed, they were hunted and the whole experience carried a sense of danger to it).  The situation was so bad before, I had some gemmed ruk try to make friends with my SLK... Then get pissy when I didn't play nice... (really...).

Wind Magickers around then kind of put in a lot of hate and cautious to how the population of arm (oocly) view them today and they deservedly, go the class bumped to 5 karma or w/e it is now.

MAGICK... should be feared and I think by all purposes it is. You just have to check yourself (yes YOU) each time you log in to remind yourself of A: racial sterotypes and B: magick sterotypes. RP that shit out. Don't mudsex the f-me viv just bc she/he can emote and is on when you are. They're a damned magicker that will wreck your shit. And if you DO fuck the viv and others find out and they don't treat you different? Then shame on all of you. Their should be a PK in that situation and I've seen it countess times (and no one ever gets PK'd).

This game is hard. It's supposed to be hard. Keep it hard. Magickers should make it hard, but we ALL should make it harder on the magickers. Just bc you have karma means you get easy mode? Fuck you. It means it should be harder and more of a challenge.

Magick is fine. We need more aggro rogue gickers though. I may make one if I ever get the right karma and no it won't be a wind gicker... that's easy mode and only losers PK with wind gickers (that's right. I said it. loser mode).

edit: I'm drunk on holiday in Barcelona but all of this post is true.

only losers pk wiht assinans because it makse it v.easy because backstab!!! that's rigte loser mode

Ok, the magic system is great for the new players, but it's totally lost its mystery for many long-term players.

1. I'd like to see the system be refreshed. For example, introduce a form of runic magick. This would be magick exercised through symbols that are triggered by specific conditions instead of "casting". A mage would have a limit as to how many runes and of what power he/she could maintain, which would grow as the mage grows more powerful. Or some other idea, but something.

2. Give mages more of a role in the game. For example, perhaps its the elementalists that are holding the Known from becoming a hopelessly hot, dry wasteland, even if they don't know it. They're manifestations of a system trying to re-establish balance, but cannot because it's upset by the sorcerer kings and dragon wannabes. Give them some inklings of the struggle to play with. Or some other idea, but something.

Quote from: Eyeball on March 08, 2015, 05:46:24 PM
Ok, the magic system is great for the new players, but it's totally lost its mystery for many long-term players.

1. I'd like to see the system be refreshed. For example, introduce a form of runic magick. This would be magick exercised through symbols instead of "casting". A mage would have a limit as to how many runes and of what power he/she could maintain, which would grow as the mage grows more powerful. Or some other idea, but something.

2. Give mages more of a role in the game. For example, perhaps its the elementalists that are holding the Known from becoming a hopelessly hot, dry wasteland, even if they don't know it. They're manifestations of a system trying to re-establish balance, but cannot because it's upset by the sorcerer kings and dragon wannabes. Give them some inklings of the struggle to play with. Or some other idea, but something.

And then what? What happens when the veterans have all experienced your new idea, and it's lost its mystery again? Add another thing. And then people get used to it, and you add another thing. That's how games get ruined; by people convincing staff to add things simply because they've become used to them. Armageddon is about plotlines, not code. If you're used to something, then try something else. As I said upthread - the mystery isn't in the spell list. It's in the who/what/where. It's in not knowing that the raider on the road is actually an evil nilazi who's been targeting you for months and is now about to make his move. It's in not knowing that your character's girlfriend is a secret mindbender. It's about you not knowing exactly which combination of magicks, natural defense, encumbrance, age, and weapon choice your particular character is using, to successfully defend against and destroy the unknown desert elf you see heading in your direction.

Game design rule #1: don't add to the game just because the top dog is bored.

I'm not a fan of mages - having played in days when Whirans were  popular and all their friends benefited from their buffs.

Things seemed to get immediately better as soon as their karma requirement went up.

The game does benefit from them - magick in plots are good. Having the undefeatable uber-bad guy with world-ending power is cool.

I do wish some major area spells would severely alter the surrounding landscape.

There are some tranquil/relatively lush/very valuable areas in the game that have suffered all manner of massive magick-fueled earthquakes/fires/lightning storms/etc but there are hardly any scars or repercussion towards the offenders.

Off topic: I'm generally more concerned with poison power creep these days. People seem to have a few doses of peraine before they've filled their first waterskin in game these days.

Quote from: Lizzie on March 08, 2015, 05:54:28 PM

Quote from: Eyeball on March 08, 2015, 05:46:24 PM
Ok, the magic system is great for the new players, but it's totally lost its mystery for many long-term players.

1. I'd like to see the system be refreshed. For example, introduce a form of runic magick. This would be magick exercised through symbols instead of "casting". A mage would have a limit as to how many runes and of what power he/she could maintain, which would grow as the mage grows more powerful. Or some other idea, but something.

2. Give mages more of a role in the game. For example, perhaps its the elementalists that are holding the Known from becoming a hopelessly hot, dry wasteland, even if they don't know it. They're manifestations of a system trying to re-establish balance, but cannot because it's upset by the sorcerer kings and dragon wannabes. Give them some inklings of the struggle to play with. Or some other idea, but something.

And then what? What happens when the veterans have all experienced your new idea, and it's lost its mystery again? Add another thing. And then people get used to it, and you add another thing. That's how games get ruined; by people convincing staff to add things simply because they've become used to them. Armageddon is about plotlines, not code. If you're used to something, then try something else. As I said upthread - the mystery isn't in the spell list. It's in the who/what/where. It's in not knowing that the raider on the road is actually an evil nilazi who's been targeting you for months and is now about to make his move. It's in not knowing that your character's girlfriend is a secret mindbender. It's about you not knowing exactly which combination of magicks, natural defense, encumbrance, age, and weapon choice your particular character is using, to successfully defend against and destroy the unknown desert elf you see heading in your direction.

Game design rule #1: don't add to the game just because the top dog is bored.

Yeah, Arm is about plotlines. Basically the same ones over and over again. Doing nothing is a formula for having the "top dogs" leave. If that doesn't matter, then by all means do nothing. But I for one really miss some of the players that used to be here but left after becoming jaded.

Quote from: Eyeball on March 09, 2015, 01:41:54 AM
Yeah, Arm is about plotlines. Basically the same ones over and over again. Doing nothing is a formula for having the "top dogs" leave. If that doesn't matter, then by all means do nothing. But I for one really miss some of the players that used to be here but left after becoming jaded.

As I said: doing something /only/ because the top dog is bored is a bad idea and a game ruiner. You don't change a game just to appease the veterans. You change a game because the game needs changing. What the veterans like might be considered in weighing the good with the bad when it comes to decision-making time, but it shouldn't be the only reason for change. Also, many veterans have returned lately. So I'm not too worried about veterans who left. Also you don't necessarily know which veterans left for which reasons. Some of them left because they didn't get along with staff. Some because they didn't like the changes being made (which would be in direct opposition to your theory). Some because they had lives outside the game that took priority and just plain didn't have time to play anymore. Some because they found another game they liked better, but had no particular fault with Arm.

Who are these "top dogs" and why do I care about them?

Quote from: Lizzie on March 09, 2015, 08:21:34 AM


As I said: doing something /only/ because the top dog is bored is a bad idea and a game ruiner. You don't change a game just to appease the veterans. You change a game because the game needs changing. What the veterans like might be considered in weighing the good with the bad when it comes to decision-making time, but it shouldn't be the only reason for change. Also, many veterans have returned lately. So I'm not too worried about veterans who left.

Being one of the veterans who left, I can say I came back because the game was changed.  The term "appease" has so many negative connotations.  The staff did what any good group of leaders does.  It listened to feedback from the community, and adjusted things accordingly.  Personally, I came back because I saw that PCs were able to create their own families, tribes and later clans...which has consistently been my #1 wish for the game.  Not only that, the process by which one can create these things makes a lot of sense and seems well thought out.  If veteran players are saying anything in the game is stale, that should be a red flag to consider.  

With that said, I don't think the majority of veteran players think the magick system is stale.  My only criticism of the magick system is that the progression of coded capabilities for a magick user doesn't have as long of a tail as mundanes.  For instance, a 30 day warrior is significantly more badass than a 15 day warrior.  Likewise, a 60 day warrior is still noticeably more badass than a 30 day one.  Magick users don't really follow that progression curve.  While coded power progression is hardly the #1 motivation for an RPI, it is fun to have your character get stronger or have more options become available to them over time.  Once that progression stops, it can make the game less exciting.

I do not want magick removed from the game.  I think magick right now is appropriate.

The only thing that makes me 'anti-magick' is when people talk about making it more prevalent and say it should be used -more- in plots and etc.

I do not want mundanes to become dependent on mages.  I do not want 'We need to hire a mage' to become a common occurrence.  Right now it's not.  That is appropriate.

Hi,

I'm not sure how the magic system works, but I suspect what makes it 'stale' is that once you've figured out a given gick-kind spell list, then that gick-kind is no longer mysterious to you - it's hard to forget that information, especially if you wrote it down.  

What would be neat is if the spell lists rotated - perhaps there could be like five sets of spell lists for a given gick-kind that rotated out randomly every few years.  

There's an analogy here with poisons and cures, and I've noticed IG (from just limited experience here) that these things actually -do- shift - new poisons are made and some of the old cures no longer are effective.  I don't know if that is a bug or if that is the intended effect, but it sure does make it cool and open ended. 

Actually, unrelated to the topic at hand, but related to the analogy, I do wish more people had to find out IC about how to make pills and taints - a lot of people learn this at some point early on in their career and then it is super easy just to build into your background that you know it already.  But really you should have to find a Dasari or highly trained physician to figure that stuff out, like what the pills do and how to make them.  (Or I'm wrong.)

I wish there was code to 'teach' recipes to people.

Quotetaints

POISONS. THEY'RE POISONS. WHY CAN'T PEOPLE JUST CALL THEM POISON WHARGARBLKLJDFSLAKJFSLKAJFSDLKJL

p.s. magick is fine.

Quote from: nauta on March 09, 2015, 03:29:15 PM
Hi,

I'm not sure how the magic system works, but I suspect what makes it 'stale' is that once you've figured out a given gick-kind spell list, then that gick-kind is no longer mysterious to you - it's hard to forget that information, especially if you wrote it down.  

That's not really it for me.  In fact, I love the fact that I know how certain magick classes progress, as it lets me teach others ICly.  Magick is fine as it is.  

Would it be cool if less people knew what each magicker can do?  Yes...  But as some have said in this thread,  people tend to think they know more they they really do about magick.  Of course, over time, even those more esoteric aspects of magick will become known.  I think it would be cool if new magicky stuff was added periodically to keep everyone on their toes, and make even veteran magicker players a little uncertain. One new spell per element, even if it meant retiring an existing spell, would be awesome.  It would be even MORE awesome if that new spell was created ICly...but that's a tall order.

You know back in the day, poisons and poisoning was considered a field of sorcery? Like a sort of 'black magick', if you will.

Maybe it should be treated like it in Zalanthas?

Quote from: Jingo on March 09, 2015, 07:27:45 PM
You know back in the day, poisons and poisoning was considered a field of sorcery? Like a sort of 'black magick', if you will.

Maybe it should be treated like it in Zalanthas?

As awesome as this would be, too much of a culture shock to how things are currently.

I do wish poisons got looked at a bit more harshly than they are right now.

Pretty sure at least one city-state considers poisons to be illegal contraband?

Whatever a Templar says in the moment is illegal, is illegal. Whatever someone who's more powerful says is wrong, is wrong. Sort of a soldiers discretion thing. They will crack down on a 'rinther with poison, might crack down on an indie hunter with stockpiles of poison, but the Salarri hunter? Doubtful.

There's one less thing to do for any class when building skills/spells is no longer an efficient activity for a player/character's time.

Anyone can pretty much one-shot anyone after X-days played/skills/poisons gained anyways. I'm not sure more hardcoded content is the fix for bored mages.

More plots for mages sounds good. More plots always sounds good.

Sometimes Zalanthas doesn't seem flexible or very interactive and a mage may not have a strong social circle to fall back on for events. Said situation is rarely an easy fix for any isolated PC.

I'm not sure what advice to give here as I've eventually lost/stored in about 100% of these events with mundanes. Perhaps better character structuring/building a potential predetermined endgame into a character are key (should they survive the mid).

An old highly advanced character who no longer interacts with the gameworld is less valuable than bright eyes in fresh boots.

Quote from: Marauder Moe on March 06, 2015, 05:03:40 PM

Quote from: MeTekillot on March 06, 2015, 04:44:34 PM
I've noticed quite a few posts that seem that air a rather negative opinion on magick, magick use, and magickers in general on the GDB. I am wondering if this may be a vocal minority, or if the playerbase is for whatever reason taking to a dislike of magick in general, or if I am just making assumptions.

It's just the hate-cycle turning.

Magickers that play the game have one place to go, really, or anyone remotely new to the game won't be playing one for more than a day. Staff support outside of those options is pretty much non-existent inside a city.

Generally people with Karma exhibit better roleplay than other PCs in game, that doesn't make magick perfect (or often times enjoyable).

I like the current balance, I have however generally seen horrible things happen.

Sometimes people just get sick of stereotypes being true.

Quote from: MeTekillot on March 06, 2015, 04:44:34 PM
I've noticed quite a few posts that seem that air a rather negative opinion on magick, magick use, and magickers in general on the GDB. I am wondering if this may be a vocal minority, or if the playerbase is for whatever reason taking to a dislike of magick in general, or if I am just making assumptions. What is your opinion on magick's place in game and how frequent it is?

I would think it is a vocal minority.  I do not have any stats, but it seems like a relatively small number of people post quite a lot on the GDB. I don't think the majority of the active player base posts here too often.

The magic system could probably do with a few changes, and I think it would be good to have a broader set of options available for someone who is new to the system or wants to play something besides a rouge, nasty gicker. Yet besides that, I think it is balanced, especially since Sorcs got nerfed  sorry. Remodeled. Some classes of mage have a lot of power, and can be hard to kill, but the restrictions the face make them hard to play. It may seem like easy mode when seen from a distance, but it's not.  At least not anymore.

Even so, the voting speaks for itself. Most people are fine with Magick the way it is.

I spend about .1% of my arm-playing time interacting with the magic system. I imagine a lot of people are in the same boat and thus didn't feel like posting any comments, positive or negative.

Quote from: Down Under on March 10, 2015, 12:02:25 PM
Even so, the voting speaks for itself. Most people are fine with Magick the way it is.

Probably the ones who don't play mages.

I always thought it'd be an interesting design to have it just be like 1% or so of applications will randomly emerge, and that otherwise, you pick a role. And if you emerge, BAM alot of your skills gone. I just think the RP would be stronger. You would build a background and lifestyle to this character that really DOES get flipped on its head the second he throws up his hands in fear when that scrab comes running, only to peak open his eyes and see four stone walls trapping it inside, eh? But then again, I do like the current fold of magickers, and I do like that it's a low percent of the population. My only hope is that it's still possible codedly or through RP for magick to come to those not starting with it. No spoilers, or anything, I just have that odd hope in the back of my head. That aside, I do think maybe some expanded upon gickery for more mundane life things would be nice. And I say this from the standpoint of only having seen limited magick so I admit, it may be much more expansive than I have knowledge of.

Quote from: ABoredLion on March 11, 2015, 08:15:27 PM
I always thought it'd be an interesting design to have it just be like 1% or so of applications will randomly emerge, and that otherwise, you pick a role. And if you emerge, BAM alot of your skills gone. I just think the RP would be stronger. You would build a background and lifestyle to this character that really DOES get flipped on its head the second he throws up his hands in fear when that scrab comes running, only to peak open his eyes and see four stone walls trapping it inside, eh? But then again, I do like the current fold of magickers, and I do like that it's a low percent of the population. My only hope is that it's still possible codedly or through RP for magick to come to those not starting with it. No spoilers, or anything, I just have that odd hope in the back of my head. That aside, I do think maybe some expanded upon gickery for more mundane life things would be nice. And I say this from the standpoint of only having seen limited magick so I admit, it may be much more expansive than I have knowledge of.

This is a cool sentiment.  Part of what makes the RP on Arm nail-bitingly good is that we share our character's lack of knowledge in a lot of cases.

1. For instance, if I walk my character out into the desert, he doesn't know whether or not he will survive, and neither does anyone else (even me).  There are an immense number of variables at play; 'skill' and 'luck' become real things.

2. If my character wakes up in a Tuluki dungeon cell, I have no idea whether he'll live through the interrogation, or even whether he'll be deemed interesting enough to interrogate.  What I say and what the other players involved know or think they know is everything.

3. Say someone's hidden in the same room as me.  My character doesn't know he's there, and I don't know he's there either.  I won't be OOCly tempted to alter his behavior for the sake of my voyeur.

Contrast this with a MUSH, where all participants kind of have to agree with each other on all the variables at play in a given scene, and even a set (or singleton) of possible outcomes.  It would be really cool to add "unmanifested supernatural abilities" to the list, albeit probably a pipe dream. :)

Quote from: wizturbo on March 06, 2015, 11:54:55 PM
I'm shocked to see these pole results...  I was expecting a lot more magick hate when it came to a vote...i guess the magick haters are just a vocal minority on the GDB.

Or maybe the poll's questions don't get to the heart of what many people's problems with magickers are. Or maybe you're just remembering the complaining from a time when magickers were really prevalent.

Or maybe you're taking simple criticisms about something as "hate" when in reality people just like different things, and like to express those differences of opinion.

Quote from: RogueGunslinger on March 18, 2015, 03:13:50 PM
Or maybe the poll's questions don't get to the heart of what many people's problems with magickers are. Or maybe you're just remembering the complaining from a time when magickers were really prevalent.

Or maybe you're taking simple criticisms about something as "hate" when in reality people just like different things, and like to express those differences of opinion.

Or, Occam's razor...  The poll is an accurate representation of what people feel about magick, and most people are happy with the current levels of it in the game?

You don't see a problem with blanketing everyone's problems with magickers under "There should be more or less of it."?

My problems with magick has nothing to do with the frequency it is seen, but rather how magickers are treated by normal people, and how accepted gemmed magickers are, and peoples interactions with magick in unrealistic manners... And all sorts of other things that have nothing to do with wanting to see more or less magick.

I picked the poll option "I'm fine with the amount of magick in the game." Because I am.

When I talked about GDB posts hating on magickers, I was talking about the posts that called them "cheating assholes" and stuff like that.

My only complaint about magick is I do not like the idea that a single player, regardless of their karma level, has the absolute ability to insta-gank someone's long-lived character any time they feel like it no matter where they are.

When they have what amounts to a "Staff Powered Worldwide Delete Button" at their disposal, that is too much power in the hands of a player in my opinion.

I admit I am biased to this because I have fallen victim to it before. A few changes have gone in to make it less likely since then, and I am glad about that.

I do feel that those sorts of things need to be removed from the game entirely though. I can't imagine much they add to the game but I can think of an entire list of reasons why that sort of thing shouldn't exist.

My butthurt aside, they make mundane assassins completely obsolete in every single way.

Quote from: Desertman on March 18, 2015, 04:20:15 PM
My only complaint about magick is I do not like the idea that a single player, regardless of their karma level, has the absolute ability to insta-gank someone's long-lived character any time they feel like it no matter where they are.

This is no longer true.

Quote from: Delirium on March 18, 2015, 04:41:22 PM

Quote from: Desertman on March 18, 2015, 04:20:15 PM
My only complaint about magick is I do not like the idea that a single player, regardless of their karma level, has the absolute ability to insta-gank someone's long-lived character any time they feel like it no matter where they are.

This is no longer true.

Yeah, Halaster retired long ago.

Quote from: RogueGunslinger on March 18, 2015, 03:55:50 PM
My problems with magick has nothing to do with the frequency it is seen, but rather how magickers are treated by normal people, and how accepted gemmed magickers are, and peoples interactions with magick in unrealistic manners... And all sorts of other things that have nothing to do with wanting to see more or less magick.

I see two sides to this.  Gemmed are not accepted by any stretch of the imagination, they are very much pariahs and the roleplay in Allanak has demonstrated that on numerous occasions so far.  On the other hand, while magickers -are- reviled, they are still people; people with personalities, goals, hopes, wants, like every other PC in the game.

Being an outcast does not automatically cancel these things out, or make a gemmed be less likely to speak up about them. 

It's my experience that a charismatic PC, whether mutant, magicker, whatever -- they will get attention and interaction from others.  And frankly, they should.  Because it's either that, or the magicker sits around alone casting their spells(which ironically seems to also be a big point of discussion people like to groan about).

Roleplaying realistically is not just being a static entity.  Actually, that is highly unrealistic.  Relationships change and evolve based on experiences with others, and that change is what brings realism.

Go make some gemmy friends, Tetra. It'll work out fantastically for you.

I've also seen a range on how accepted a Gemmed is or isn't.  A Gemmed whose fought in a dozen battles alongside the Templarate and saved the life of Lord Purplepants Fale during the great rat invasion is bound to have a few friends.   The same would be true of a half-breed who worked their way up to Byn Sergaent with an impressive track record.   Some random Gemmed who hasn't done jack shit?  They don't seem to have many friends from what I can tell.  People might not threaten them in the bar, but they aren't exactly buying them a drink and chatting it up. 

Quote from: Delirium on March 18, 2015, 04:41:22 PM

Quote from: Desertman on March 18, 2015, 04:20:15 PM
My only complaint about magick is I do not like the idea that a single player, regardless of their karma level, has the absolute ability to insta-gank someone's long-lived character any time they feel like it no matter where they are.

This is no longer true.

Elementalists always were glass cannoneers. Fire a big shot once in a while but useless while reloading and dead if overrun by the infantry.

So now they've had the "fire a big shot" taken away too? What does that leave them with other than a bit of spying? Just the role of despised support characters, it would seem.

Quote from: Eyeball on March 18, 2015, 07:01:00 PM

Elementalists always were glass cannons. Fire a big shot once in a while but useless while reloading and dead if overrun.

So now they've had the "fire a big shot" taken away too? What does that leave them with other than a bit of spying? Just flavor characters, it would seem.

Oh no... believe me, magick is still extremely dangerous and powerful.  Many years ago, there were some insane shenanigans that could be done with certain spells or combinations of spells that were truly game breaking.  Those days are long past though, and magick went from ungodly overpowered to just super scary. 

I don't give a shit, actually. Fine with more magick, fine with less magick. I've played one magicker in 16 years. One bender, and maybe one sorcerer.

I like my mundanes.

Quote from: The7DeadlyVenomz on March 19, 2015, 12:15:26 AM
I don't give a shit, actually. Fine with more magick, fine with less magick. I've played one magicker in 16 years. One bender, and maybe one sorcerer.

I like my mundanes.

Same. I can't even recall the last magicker I played.

I just don't like giving another player an "Instant Flawless Delete Button" for my PC that I may have a RL year or more on that requires no more effort in general than typing out "Cast Mon Un Instant Death From Anywhere Any Time", after sitting around spam casting for a few RL weeks to spam their skills up.

Why don't we just give them a command that says, "Delete Character Name" that has a global effect.....it is exactly the same thing.

(But I'm glad to hear it apparently was taken out of the game. So, my complaint is moot it would seem.)

I always store my non-mundanes. Except for the one Kishime killed.

Last time I played an elementalist, Tuluk still had temples to cast in and there was no karma system. I keep thinking I'd like to try one of those new-fangled magic classes, but then I get great idea for mundane #105 and I push it to the back burner.

That said, the most interaction I've had with magic in the last year is stumbling across some long-abandoned spell effects lingering in the wastes. Given this, I'm fine with magic as it is. I don't like it and I hardly ever have to deal with it!

I'm glad i came back to this thread.

The problem with magick isn't coded anymore as I see it, its in how magick is played out by both players and the staff.

I'll take some shots here I guess.

I think its ridiculous that you have an entire quarter of magick in a city, with no staff support anymore. If you want magick you have to join the ONLY option available, and everyone knows what house i'm talking about. Or you can take your pick at hoping a staffer has time to know your element, plotlines, and run independent. This is not really my experience with these things.

This is not all true if you are a veteran who has played enough magickers to go off and do some risky, gamey independent plots and things for a RL year until youre strong enough to come associate as an outlaw with everyone. (Or take a gem and play either alone in a temple or in that one place again, exciting on time 10 right?)

I don't want to see another house suddenly employing mages to fix stuff like this, I want different options available to mages. Here's an example.

If I play a magicker, and I talk back to a noble or a templar, I will die. This goes for a lot of people, but especially for magickers. There will never be a 'popular faction' or 'popular figure' amongst the gemmed. There won't ever be any 'dissent' because anyone who isn't sticking their tongue up a noble's ass when they are around dies. magick life. Resist authority even verbally? Anyone who tries that type of stuff is cut down immediately (See magick life). So in most ways, you've directly taken out meaningful interaction and conflict between a 'gemmed magicker' and an entire city of aristocracy already. Taking meaningful conflict (or just the opportunity for it) away from me as an option does not make me excited to play.

It is for this reason I find mages extremely boring most often. I rarely play them. After the first couple of times it became the same thing over and over because I just couldn't work it out progressing a mage without straight up taking a gem and learning about the mechanics from other veterans and stuff. I'm probably not alone in that because i've played this game for a long time and I imagine its still difficult.

You are relegated to exploring the range of reactions people have to you when they rarely come into your quarter, or you are called out of a quarter by someone who has the juice to order you around. Or you decide to get desperate and tavern sit. People complain about magickers being in their temple spamming up their skills? Create some meaningful roleplay for them and stop being boring, or better yet instantly lethal, I bet you'll see them more often. People that play magickers are at a minimum, experienced.

I actually almost find it bad roleplay to see gemmed hanging out in bars. In my head I try to figure out why that player thinks their character would be welcome at a place like a tavern, let alone the Gaj. Unless that player is actively looking for ridicule and derogatory attacks, they wouldn't do that. You know why gemmed go to bars? I am convinced it is because they are desperate for some player to player interaction on an OOC level because their temple is boring as fuck and so is spamming up skills.

You may ask yourself why Gemmed sit in temples spamming up skills all of a sudden ; Reality check: There's not much else for them to do unless they join that ONE HOUSE. You can't spar in apartments or temples, you rarely have someone of your element around to show you the ropes, any walk outside of your quarter can instantly be a death sentence, and you can't join a merchant house or any other house. So you are left with your temple, because let me tell you, day 1 magickers do not survive outside a wall alone very often. (This is why you often see, lets face it - magick/crafting combos) (Unless you are in that elite category of people who survive outside the walls from the start)

**For the sake of this argument I am excluding individuals who wait to show their manifestations for a few years IG, that's a whole different avenue and often exciting**

When I played my last gemmer a couple years ago, I tried to bring someone into a plot of mine I had worked out with staff. This is like one of the only times in my life I ever tried to work out an independent plot line. It got crazy - within like 48 hours back in allanak I tried to drag another player into the plotline and that person ran to the [Redacted] IMMEDIATELY ----> The next thing to happen is that 'something' teleports about half of  the [redacted] of allanak into the same room with me and I insta-die. All the hours and emails of planning gone in a split second on someone elses total power trip. So... I don't trust players to responsibly handle anything other than your average boring gemmer story anyways.

I guess I am saying when it comes to magick, I see the glaring weaknesses being around the 'Gemmed' culture specifically. Its a very undefined, stifling, and equally fascinating aspect of the game I think needs a lot of work and some revamping. its not one area or one person, its how they are played, how they are interacted with, and what their options are. I don't see any coded absurdities much these days.

Remember, i'm part of that vocal minority though. Maybe everyone else loves it.

Oh magick, you deus ex machina to maintain the status quo you.

Magickers are super breeds. Look at me! I am going to play something everyone is required to hate then go on a murdering spree later when said hate has made me all angry and stuff.

If magick was gone or toned down and it was packs of mundanes going against each other, I don't really think it would be less fun,murder,corruption, and betrayal, Then you have to actually get someone to infiltrate that group to spy instead of 'magick'. It would be interesting if say a templar could boost himself to being as serious threat as a 'mek but having mountain dropping invulnerable templar adds nothing but an excuse as to why you can't do anything meaningful.

Quote from: Aruven on March 28, 2015, 03:44:36 PM
I think its ridiculous that you have an entire quarter of magick in a city, with no staff support anymore. If you want magick you have to join the ONLY option available, and everyone knows what house i'm talking about. Or you can take your pick at hoping a staffer has time to know your element, plotlines, and run independent. This is not really my experience with these things.

Your belief about how things work for gemmed in terms of clan staff is incorrect. Gemmed who are not in Oash report to the AoD staffer; they have just as much staff access as any other non-leader PC does. Non-gemmed mages would report to independent staff, and, again--they have just as much staff access as any other non-leader PC does.

The last magicker I played wasn't exactly what you'd call "popular"--far from it, I'd say, in fact--but I keep hearing his name come up every now and then, so I'd say it was a success!

Quote from: Talia on March 28, 2015, 04:18:30 PM

Quote from: Aruven on March 28, 2015, 03:44:36 PM
I think its ridiculous that you have an entire quarter of magick in a city, with no staff support anymore. If you want magick you have to join the ONLY option available, and everyone knows what house i'm talking about. Or you can take your pick at hoping a staffer has time to know your element, plotlines, and run independent. This is not really my experience with these things.

Your belief about how things work for gemmed in terms of clan staff is incorrect. Gemmed who are not in Oash report to the AoD staffer; they have just as much staff access as any other non-leader PC does. Non-gemmed mages would report to independent staff, and, again--they have just as much staff access as any other non-leader PC does.

I am aware an avenue supposedly exists to support gemmed. I think its rather half-hearted, and i'd like to see how other people who have played a few mages as gemmed feel about it. I should have said 'little' not 'no' staff support.

I suppose more constructively I am trying to start a conversation about the limited options of gemmed mages up until this point in time. A good example being that as a community, their gameplay is so directed into one of a few narrow places; that they don't even have a single staffer assigned to working with them specifically. I imagine we're talking about 5 - 10 players at any given point in time MINIMUM every waking hour that ginka runs as a server. Thats a clan, collectively. Thats actually bigger than some active PC clans.

I as a long-time player can enjoy any set of rules, that's kind of what armageddon is about; Not getting your way and then responding to that. I'm pointing out that there are some irregularities with this portion of the game's community in my subjective experience.

**Clarification: Not to be saying 'staff' are half-hearted, I'm sure some staffers work hard to help certain individuals they have time to. To me the idea of not bothering to even have some sort of staff and organization for that community, is half-hearted as a general concept.

Quote from: Beethoven on March 28, 2015, 04:28:28 PM
The last magicker I played wasn't exactly what you'd call "popular"--far from it, I'd say, in fact--but I keep hearing his name come up every now and then, so I'd say it was a success!

To be honest Beethoven, Luir Dragonthrall wasn't your average magicker.

Oops! I've said too much about your previous character! ;)

Quote from: Bushranger on March 28, 2015, 05:10:11 PM

Quote from: Beethoven on March 28, 2015, 04:28:28 PM
The last magicker I played wasn't exactly what you'd call "popular"--far from it, I'd say, in fact--but I keep hearing his name come up every now and then, so I'd say it was a success!

Oops! I've said too much about your previous character! ;)

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/WNn_z7HJy_d_OWPHfznKQ_6T-4--PyiqSGroOl6sGScwJp6xkpoAi1TXPeDPF8uTIdzOSqyeBlQMd9JpSBPV97AbwrNpGd0Vb58iPvaltKnIJnsd87ec)

My experience with unclanned PCs (90+ percent of my more than 100) is that the best way to enjoy your playtime, especially where plots are concerened, is to not rely on stuff that requires staff support.  This is nothing against our staffers, but make your own fun, keep them aware of what you are up to where it concerns other characters and clans.  Don't look at staff like Dungeon Masters. We are all our own DMs, we can go out and do whatever we want within the realm of what fits inside the rules of the game world (even when it is trying to break those rules).  I think this goes doubly so for magick users.

ICly a vivaduan could pick a spot out in the sands and over the course of a couple years, turn it into an oasis (alone).  A merchant can't do that. A ranger can't do that. A warrior can't do that.  Hell, a templar can't even do that because their boss would smack them for cutting in on water temple sales.

Magick users have abilities that go beyond their coded skills, because, they -are- supernatural.  The ability to make chances to the world is very tempting to exploit, it can also be very frustrating when you realized that it is much harder to accomplish things on an OOC level that it would be for your character to do it in game. That's just the reality of this sandbox.

Start your plots small, with goals you can accomplish on your own without any support, then move on to to finding whatever support you can that is attainable through your access terminal.  Take your time.  Protect yourself in every way that is possible (this is where I usually slack because of impatience). Gain momentum.  Push the boundaries of what you can accomplish in your role, carefully choose others to help you and push aspects of your goals for you.  Sometimes you will choose the wrong people, and they will set you back.  Find a way to turn their failures to your advantage or remove them from your path and influence.  It may be cynical of me, but if you are always relying on others to provide or approve of your fun you probably aren't really enjoying your play that much.

Hey man, this is good advice.

This should be applied to more than just gemmed.

Quote from: FantasyWriter on March 28, 2015, 06:03:06 PM
ICly a vivaduan could pick a spot out in the sands and over the course of a couple years, turn it into an oasis (alone).

:D I think the words you're missing are "in theory".

Quote from: Aruven on March 28, 2015, 03:44:36 PM
I don't want to see another house suddenly employing mages to fix stuff like this, I want different options available to mages. Here's an example.

I would like to see this as well(currently organizing a proposition for something of a larger magnitude, but waiting before I ask through request tool).  Actually, I think other houses employing mages is not a terrible idea at all.  It would certainly create some magicker vs magicker conflict and produce some twists and turns in overarching plots happening in the city and increase RP cohesion.

Quote from: FantasyWriter on March 28, 2015, 06:03:06 PM
ICly a vivaduan could pick a spot out in the sands and over the course of a couple years, turn it into an oasis (alone).  A merchant can't do that. A ranger can't do that. A warrior can't do that.  Hell, a templar can't even do that because their boss would smack them for cutting in on water temple sales.

I would say with heavy, tactful roleplay and given the magicker is powerful enough, much sooner than that.  It's an interesting idea, albeit of little consequence because it doesn't really increase the level of interactivity with the rest of the playerbase.

Quote from: Eyeball on March 30, 2015, 01:57:29 AM

Quote from: FantasyWriter on March 28, 2015, 06:03:06 PM
ICly a vivaduan could pick a spot out in the sands and over the course of a couple years, turn it into an oasis (alone).

:D I think the words you're missing are "in theory".

Yes, that was my point. ;)  If you are always asking staff if you can do X or if they will do Y for you, your time could probably be better speant in game doing it and just keep staff up to date on what you've done/ plan to do.

It isn't a "better to ask forgiveness that permission" mindset, either. You don't need staff's permission to pursue plots (so long as they fall within the OOC rules and scope of the game).

I work with several people who have to literally be told everything they need to do for their job (and some of them have worked there longer than I've been alive).  I don't particuarly care for baby sitting these people, which I end up doing on a regular basis.  Staff are not your babysitters or parents or teachers or bosses.  Don't rely on them to tell you how to play your character or whether or not your character has permission to wipe after going poo.

I would like to see each class of magick come with four types of casting emote.
This way it gives a bit new flare and maybe have it in starting room to pick from.

Quote from: Wday on March 30, 2015, 07:27:13 PM
I would like to see each class of magick come with four types of casting emote.
This way it gives a bit new flare and maybe have it in starting room to pick from.

Better yet, give different kinds of spells cast emotes.
Maybe even a few.
Maybe make it custom.
Breath a fire ball out of your mouth.
Gain wind to fly through your butt.
Cry out tears to make water.
ETC.

That's what the emote system is for.

Quote from: Delirium on March 30, 2015, 09:22:59 PM
That's what the emote system is for.

I figured that out after I posted it sadly and didn't go back to change it.

Even with a emote the coded cast will echo code emote right?
I am saying I think it would be neat if those had a few coded echos other then same old one.

It would be neat if you could set up your own cast echoes during character generation

I don't think it should be available at chargen, but it would be a pretty awesome perk for long-lived mages.

I don't know about chargen because sometimes my vision at chargen is drastically different from my vision when my character really starts coming into his/her own.

Quote from: Marauder Moe on March 31, 2015, 11:13:12 AM
I don't think it should be available at chargen, but it would be a pretty awesome perk for long-lived mages.

Pretty sure I've seen this done.

It's been done in the past, I'm not sure if it's still a thing now.

I know the code is capable of it.  It's more a matter of formalizing the process/application of getting one applied.

I am thinking of it as a staff set of casting emotes. Nothing over done just a good element following emote.
Maybe at start you get to point at two types, one being (wavering heat rises from -so and so- form as they call on the element)
then second is for lets say outside use (fire comes to life over -so and so- form as they call on the element)
with those two you can change from one or another like changing accents. This way if you are lets say in city you can put off heat and not open flames.
But you go hunting or something with Amos and want to use the raw element then you change casting. And I know bad emote examples but just saying.

Let me just say, I fucking love magic.
In every game, I love magic. I don't care how overpowered it is, I don't care how weak it is, if it has limits or not. I love. LOVE. LOOOOVE magic. I don't just love using magic, oh no, I love fighting it. I love being a mundane person battling the strange, the mysterious. I love battling demons and monsters and golems, I love fighting alongside or against mages flinging fire, lightning, ice, ect.
Magic is bitching.

The Arm magick system is awesome and anyone who says otherwise is a gickophobe.

Played a couple 'gickers. Only water though, so not TOO MUCH thats wildly OP. Magick was weird. The lore said that water 'gickers should be something close to accepted because of the absolutely vital nature of their arts, water and healing. Something that nearly everyone can accept on a caravan, if not sit next to. What I found was largely binary. Total fear or complete, baseless acceptance. I can totally see for the long-time players how 'oh, new magicker, a few days of wary suspicion, then grudging acceptance so we can play together' gets old. I did feel like I was completely separate from the mundane players, because for most of them, there was no IC reason for us to interact.

I wouldn't mind seeing magic and mages in general be a thing limited to special role call situations (on the same level as Templars and House Family etc...) and the realm of NPC's, VNPC's, and staff animations only.

But, I don't play mages. So, I admit I am biased. I prefer the more mundane elements of Armageddon and prefer to mostly stay away from magic-type things and situations when I can.

I have always found it jarring when stacked against the documentation of the game in terms of hated and feared/rare magic when I walk into a public place with four or five magic-users sitting around like they are one of the guys.

In my opinion it is on the same level as Tuluk being "rough and gruff" but almost impossible to play that way because of the playerbase and their inclination to not play it that way the majority of the time. It got to the point playing it that way made you an extreme minority.

It makes it extremely hard to play a true terror/hate of magic, when you have to encounter it at least twice every gaming session as part of your character's basic day to day lives. Just going to the local tavern for a mug, for example. Having a true terrifying hate/fear of magic in Armageddon in a lot of ways has become the minority among the visible playerbase based on my own experiences.

Well, heres one of those 'muh ic', what if they are one of the guys? Helping people through thick and thin, etc, etc.
Or people are just forgetting how they are abominations and might as well be a half giant human elf hybrid with a huge tail.

Quote from: Jihelu on April 15, 2015, 05:20:38 PM
Well, heres one of those 'muh ic', what if they are one of the guys? Helping people through thick and thin, etc, etc.
Or people are just forgetting how they are abominations and might as well be a half giant human elf hybrid with a huge tail.

I'm not saying they don't have a great IC reason. I'm saying I wish the option was taken out on the level that it currently exists so those IC reasons would stop being the norm and start actually being the extremely rare exception.

Quote from: Desertman on April 15, 2015, 05:22:04 PM

Quote from: Jihelu on April 15, 2015, 05:20:38 PM
Well, heres one of those 'muh ic', what if they are one of the guys? Helping people through thick and thin, etc, etc.
Or people are just forgetting how they are abominations and might as well be a half giant human elf hybrid with a huge tail.

I'm not saying they don't have a great IC reason. I'm saying I wish the option was taken out on the level that it currently exists so those IC reasons would stop being the norm and start actually being the extremely rare exception.

From the way I read certain things, some people seem to think/see it always be extreme, while others see it not at all. Or I'm crazy.

Hyperbolic to say everyone should be terrified... there are ranges of reactions from mistrust and fear (Allanak) to outright terror and hatred (Tuluk).

The problem arises because players are too quick to shed the mistrust.

You can put up with a mage, maybe even cautiously befriend it, without wanting it to touch you or sneeze near your babies.

There are justifications for everything everyone does in game related to magic that allow them to treat it however they want.

I will be the first to admit I am part of my own problem. I've befriended mages for no other reason than it was in my best interest to do that based on the number of friends that mage already had. *shrug*

That's just the reality. It is more rare to not befriend them in a lot of cases.

I've even gone so far as to hunt down people who offended my magicker friends in the past with past characters.

I'm my own worst enemy, but....I was playing to the majority based on what was around my PC day to day constantly.

The broad range of stories and shades of grey are what make this game great.

Trying to pigeonhole everyone into a specific reaction that they MUST have creates frustration and stagnation.

As long as the story makes sense, you're abiding by the official documentation, and you're acting from in character rather than thinly veiled out of character motivations - go for it.

That includes the range of reactions which is possible toward mage characters. Some people just have to learn how to portray the complexity of such interactions.

I'm not saying people are doing anything wrong. I'm just saying how I would personally prefer things.  :)

HANDS OFF MAH 'GICKERS!!!    >:(


Actually I think the solution to your problem isn't less gemmers, it's more gemmers.  The more gemmed characters can find interaction within their quarter, the less likely they'll leave it.


That said, I don't think it would be a terrible idea to have a guideline (both IC and OOC) that gemmed congregating outside of the quarter is not OK, and encourage soldiers, templars, or the gemmed themselves to suggest moving groups to the elementalists' quarter.

Quote from: Marauder Moe on April 15, 2015, 05:41:56 PM
HANDS OFF MAH 'GICKERS!!!    >:(


Actually I think the solution to your problem isn't less gemmers, it's more gemmers.  The more gemmed characters can find interaction within their quarter, the less likely they'll leave it.


That said, I don't think it would be a terrible idea to have a guideline (both IC and OOC) that gemmed congregating outside of the quarter is not OK, and encourage soldiers, templars, or the gemmed themselves to suggest moving groups to the elementalists' quarter.

I am a supporter of more gemmers and more restrictions on where gemmers are commonly accepted outside of their own circles.

Quote from: Desertman on April 15, 2015, 05:22:04 PM

Quote from: Jihelu on April 15, 2015, 05:20:38 PM
Well, heres one of those 'muh ic', what if they are one of the guys? Helping people through thick and thin, etc, etc.
Or people are just forgetting how they are abominations and might as well be a half giant human elf hybrid with a huge tail.

I'm not saying they don't have a great IC reason. I'm saying I wish the option was taken out on the level that it currently exists so those IC reasons would stop being the norm and start actually being the extremely rare exception.

Just going to be blunt and say....Magic users being accepted or fraternized with -is- rare.  Just because you see it once or twice doesn't make it common.  Food for thought.


Really, I find these complaints genuinely hilarious.  Do you play a magicker?  Do you see anyone cuddling with mundanes?  It's not happening in the world, so I don't see where this need to vent is coming from. 

I had a latent magicker hunting in Tuluk, but not a citizen there, who manifested during a hunt gone poorly against a pack of gortoks, in order to save some dude's life. Instead of horror and disdain, the guy (born and bred Tuluki) immediately swore to keep her secret and proceeded to try and become best friends with her - taking a casual hunting partnership into way too intimate territory. As a result, he accidentally died on the next hunt and my magicker continued to try and hide what she was in hopes it would go away. She ended up getting accosted by a sorcerer who hung out around Tuluk, then ended up outside of Luirs. She was given a mount by some random dude, and proceeded to make her way south to beg for a gem and protection from aforementioned crazy sorc fucker. Once gemmed, she was hit on by EVERY SINGLE LIVING THING IN THE ENTIRE KNOWN: female elves, male elves, (EDIT: both city and desert varieties) male half-elves, humans, etc. She was even propositioned by several templars, though one was a little rapey about it. Nobody really hated her heaps, though her only "friends" were other gemmed people. I wouldn't say she was liked by outsiders much, but she wasn't outright hated, either. More like fear, disdain, and horniness... And the last one I attribute to just playing a female PC in ARM, period.

[Spell detail removed by val.]

Quote from: Wolfsong on April 16, 2015, 03:01:40 AM
I had a latent magicker hunting in Tuluk, but not a citizen there, who manifested during a hunt gone poorly against a pack of gortoks, in order to save some dude's life. Instead of horror and disdain, the guy (born and bred Tuluki) immediately swore to keep her secret and proceeded to try and become best friends with her - taking a casual hunting partnership into way too intimate territory. As a result, he accidentally died on the next hunt and my magicker continued to try and hide what she was in hopes it would go away. She ended up getting accosted by a sorcerer who hung out around Tuluk, then ended up outside of Luirs. She was given a mount by some random dude, and proceeded to make her way south to beg for a gem and protection from aforementioned crazy sorc fucker. Once gemmed, she was hit on by EVERY SINGLE LIVING THING IN THE ENTIRE KNOWN: female elves, male elves, (EDIT: both city and desert varieties) male half-elves, humans, etc. She was even propositioned by several templars, though one was a little rapey about it. Nobody really hated her heaps, though her only "friends" were other gemmed people. I wouldn't say she was liked by outsiders much, but she wasn't outright hated, either. More like fear, disdain, and horniness... And the last one I attribute to just playing a female PC in ARM, period.

PM me the description. I'm very curious.

[And out of this quote, -val.]

Quote from: Wolfsong on April 16, 2015, 03:01:40 AM
I had a latent magicker hunting in Tuluk, but not a citizen there, who manifested during a hunt gone poorly against a pack of gortoks, in order to save some dude's life. Instead of horror and disdain, the guy (born and bred Tuluki) immediately swore to keep her secret and proceeded to try and become best friends with her - taking a casual hunting partnership into way too intimate territory. As a result, he accidentally died on the next hunt and my magicker continued to try and hide what she was in hopes it would go away. She ended up getting accosted by a sorcerer who hung out around Tuluk, then ended up outside of Luirs. She was given a mount by some random dude, and proceeded to make her way south to beg for a gem and protection from aforementioned crazy sorc fucker. Once gemmed, she was hit on by EVERY SINGLE LIVING THING IN THE ENTIRE KNOWN: female elves, male elves, (EDIT: both city and desert varieties) male half-elves, humans, etc. She was even propositioned by several templars, though one was a little rapey about it. Nobody really hated her heaps, though her only "friends" were other gemmed people. I wouldn't say she was liked by outsiders much, but she wasn't outright hated, either. More like fear, disdain, and horniness... And the last one I attribute to just playing a female PC in ARM, period.

It's because you were a female.  My male magickers receive no such treatment.

[And spell detail removed out of this quote too, <3 Val.]

Quote from: Tetra on April 16, 2015, 02:35:31 AM

Quote from: Desertman on April 15, 2015, 05:22:04 PM

Quote from: Jihelu on April 15, 2015, 05:20:38 PM
Well, heres one of those 'muh ic', what if they are one of the guys? Helping people through thick and thin, etc, etc.
Or people are just forgetting how they are abominations and might as well be a half giant human elf hybrid with a huge tail.

I'm not saying they don't have a great IC reason. I'm saying I wish the option was taken out on the level that it currently exists so those IC reasons would stop being the norm and start actually being the extremely rare exception.

Just going to be blunt and say....Magic users being accepted or fraternized with -is- rare.  Just because you see it once or twice doesn't make it common.  Food for thought.


Really, I find these complaints genuinely hilarious.  Do you play a magicker?  Do you see anyone cuddling with mundanes?  It's not happening in the world, so I don't see where this need to vent is coming from. 

I didn't realize you saw everything my PC saw. Interesting.

Tetra is confirmed psion.

Quote from: Tetra on April 16, 2015, 02:35:31 AMJust going to be blunt and say....Magic users being accepted or fraternized with -is- rare.  Just because you see it once or twice doesn't make it common.  Food for thought.


Really, I find these complaints genuinely hilarious.  Do you play a magicker?  Do you see anyone cuddling with mundanes?  It's not happening in the world, so I don't see where this need to vent is coming from.

I've played magickers.  It happens a lot.


I don't think it's a big problem, though.  It does make for interesting plots, especially when other PCs react with appropriate levels of scorn (which they often don't... and that is problem).

You can say the problem is people buddying up to magic all you want, but the other half of how things are is every other magicker being played 'I'm just misunderstood I can't help it love me pls.' Want people to react properly? Play a scary bastard of a magicker sometime.

Quote from: Patuk on April 16, 2015, 10:20:08 AM
You can say the problem is people buddying up to magic all you want, but the other half of how things are is every other magicker being played 'I'm just misunderstood I can't help it love me pls.' Want people to react properly? Play a scary bastard of a magicker sometime.

This. People still try to buddy up to you, but why not resent them for trying to use you for your powers? They wouldn't ever really be your friend. How could they? They're normal. Magick is scary and you're scary so fuck them for trying to treat you like a little pet. You should teach them a lesson....

etc, etc.

It doesn't even have to be intentional, play magick as if it were mul rage. If magickers are liked too much, play less likable magickers.

Quote from: Delirium on April 16, 2015, 10:35:54 AM
This. People still try to buddy up to you, but why not resent them for trying to use you for your powers? They wouldn't ever really be your friend. How could they? They're normal. Magick is scary and you're scary so fuck them for trying to treat you like a little pet. You should teach them a lesson....

Well, except you know you can't.  Or you're dead.

And they know you can't.  Or you're dead.

Except, when you can.  And no one talks about it.  For about a RL year...

There's ways around that. Such as letting rumors spread ingame. You know, good ol' good roleplay - and player complaints if someone's just straight-up ignoring IC reality.

It's hard to play a character that isn't likable, I think in part because so much conflict turns into outright avoidance. Which I've never found to be very fun.  Still, I'm all for more scary, unlikable magickers.

Quote from: valeria on April 16, 2015, 11:24:45 AM
It's hard for me to play a character that isn't likable, I think in part because so much conflict turns into outright avoidance. Which I've never found to be very fun.  Still, I'm all for more scary, unlikable magickers.

ftfy, dw bro

Quote from: valeria on April 16, 2015, 11:24:45 AM
It's hard to play a character that isn't likable, I think in part because so much conflict turns into outright avoidance. Which I've never found to be very fun.  Still, I'm all for more scary, unlikable magickers.

Solution: Play a likably scary character.

(insert plug for new Daredevil series, and gushing over Wilson Fisk portrayal)

Quote from: Wolfsong on April 16, 2015, 03:01:40 AM
I had a latent magicker hunting in Tuluk, but not a citizen there, who manifested during a hunt gone poorly against a pack of gortoks, in order to save some dude's life. Instead of horror and disdain, the guy (born and bred Tuluki) immediately swore to keep her secret and proceeded to try and become best friends with her - taking a casual hunting partnership into way too intimate territory. As a result, he accidentally died on the next hunt and my magicker continued to try and hide what she was in hopes it would go away. She ended up getting accosted by a sorcerer who hung out around Tuluk, then ended up outside of Luirs. She was given a mount by some random dude, and proceeded to make her way south to beg for a gem and protection from aforementioned crazy sorc fucker. Once gemmed, she was hit on by EVERY SINGLE LIVING THING IN THE ENTIRE KNOWN: female elves, male elves, (EDIT: both city and desert varieties) male half-elves, humans, etc. She was even propositioned by several templars, though one was a little rapey about it. Nobody really hated her heaps, though her only "friends" were other gemmed people. I wouldn't say she was liked by outsiders much, but she wasn't outright hated, either. More like fear, disdain, and horniness... And the last one I attribute to just playing a female PC in ARM, period.

[Spell detail removed by val.]

Sounds like you had an awesome adventure, in any case.

I think it makes sense for a lot of players to want to play out that part of their character's psychological apparatus -- romance, or whatever you want to call it.  And it's hard to blame anyone for wanting to direct their play specifically at PCs, otherwise they could just be playing "Notepad" instead.

But I strongly believe that what you described is symptomatic of a diluted or smaller player base.  It's much easier to play to the documents when doing so doesn't isolate you from (or worse! make you an enemy of) the rest of the playerbase.

Still, optics are important.  I caught some heat for this in another thread, but I believe that if you want to play something exceptional or documentation-bending, like some weirdo who lusts for magick users, or something, then you should probably do so in relative seclusion from the other players.  That way (a) you won't risk discoloring other players' immersion, and (b) you won't have to constantly be negotiating the negative and revolted reactions of the wider virtual world (which I have seen some 'exceptional' characters doing well, recently, so kudos there).

Bottom line: I suspect more people would toe the line and "stick with their own", gemmed magick users included, if there were 200 people online instead of 45.  Tuluk's virtualization might help in this regard, more than just serving to consolidate the playerbase.

Quote from: Patuk on April 16, 2015, 11:27:35 AM

Quote from: valeria on April 16, 2015, 11:24:45 AM
It's hard for me to play a character that isn't likable, I think in part because so much conflict turns into outright avoidance. Which I've never found to be very fun.  Still, I'm all for more scary, unlikable magickers.

ftfy, dw bro

I've heard this sentiment expressed by other people too ;)  And my point was more about conflict avoidance than what's enjoyable to play.  I actually did enjoy playing a semi-villainous Templar.  But people couldn't avoid him.

If everyone has the potential, excluding mundanes because fuck those, to become unkillable "call in the red robe"gods, then magick becomes 10 times more scary.
Though I'm pretty sure they do that.

Now that everyone is being squeezed together in Allanak, it would be more rewarding if people could not automatically see if someone was a magicker because of the gems.  It would suck if my character was wearing a gem and someone would plot to kill my pc because I was a magicker.  Why the gem?  Why not a virtual gem that other magickers and Templars only could see?

The gem is what makes that role so great. If you want to play a hidden mage, you have to play a rogue and risk being caught.

So I'm a very on-and-off player that doesn't tend to get super involved in things because my time availability fluctuates so much, but I actually don't think I've ever seen magic on this game. Like, ever.

My opinion is that's probably appropriate, and a good thing. I like that low-fantasy feel!

Quote from: Delirium on April 17, 2015, 02:18:51 PM
The gem is what makes that role so great. If you want to play a hidden mage, you have to play a rogue and risk being caught.

X2

I played an unmanifested gicker in Nak, pretty known actually. THE closer she got to her evil self the more I looked forward to getting that gem. Right when she truly started letting go she got dead but mannnn that aftermath would have been fun.

semantic nerd alert

LOW FANTASY DOES NOT MEAN LITTLE/NO MAGIC

gah. :-X

I subscribe to the Robert E. Howard definition of low magic: rare, corrupting, powerful, and whose practitioners of which can be beaten to death with furniture.

I absolutely love the fear and hatred surrounding magick. If there were 1% as much magick in the game as there is, I would be thrilled because the mystery and awe of it would be reinforced as well. Familiarity breeds contempt.

That said, I don't play magickers. I've tried. It doesn't turn me on. If it were up to me magick would be mainly controlled by staff and entrusted to only the highest-karma players and even then very, very, very rarely. At great cost and effort. And when it did finally come down? It would wreck shit. Shock and awe and fire across the sky.

Oh yes.

Quote from: WarriorPoet on April 17, 2015, 11:31:56 PM
I absolutely love the fear and hatred surrounding magick. If there were 1% as much magick in the game as there is, I would be thrilled because the mystery and awe of it would be reinforced as well. Familiarity breeds contempt.

That said, I don't play magickers. I've tried. It doesn't turn me on. If it were up to me magick would be mainly controlled by staff and entrusted to only the highest-karma players and even then very, very, very rarely. At great cost and effort. And when it did finally come down? It would wreck shit.  Shock and awe and fire across the sky.

Oh yes.

That's already the case.  We playin' the same game?

Quote from: Tetra on April 18, 2015, 08:06:11 AM

Quote from: WarriorPoet on April 17, 2015, 11:31:56 PM
I absolutely love the fear and hatred surrounding magick. If there were 1% as much magick in the game as there is, I would be thrilled because the mystery and awe of it would be reinforced as well. Familiarity breeds contempt.

That said, I don't play magickers. I've tried. It doesn't turn me on. If it were up to me magick would be mainly controlled by staff and entrusted to only the highest-karma players and even then very, very, very rarely. At great cost and effort. And when it did finally come down? It would wreck shit.  Shock and awe and fire across the sky.

Oh yes.

That's already the case.  We playin' the same game?

I guess you didn't get the memo: you can play a ruk or viv with a special app and no karma, or with just 2 karma points. At the karma half-way point you can play a krathi or drovian. So no - it's not restricted to only the highest karma levels, and in fact, you can start playing at some of the lowest karma levels (or none with a special app).

Quote from: Lizzie on April 18, 2015, 09:04:10 AM

Quote from: Tetra on April 18, 2015, 08:06:11 AM

Quote from: WarriorPoet on April 17, 2015, 11:31:56 PM
I absolutely love the fear and hatred surrounding magick. If there were 1% as much magick in the game as there is, I would be thrilled because the mystery and awe of it would be reinforced as well. Familiarity breeds contempt.

That said, I don't play magickers. I've tried. It doesn't turn me on. If it were up to me magick would be mainly controlled by staff and entrusted to only the highest-karma players and even then very, very, very rarely. At great cost and effort. And when it did finally come down? It would wreck shit.  Shock and awe and fire across the sky.

Oh yes.

That's already the case.  We playin' the same game?

I guess you didn't get the memo: you can play a ruk or viv with a special app and no karma, or with just 2 karma points. At the karma half-way point you can play a krathi or drovian. So no - it's not restricted to only the highest karma levels, and in fact, you can start playing at some of the lowest karma levels (or none with a special app).

Making all magickers higher karma wouldn't really result in a '1% of current magick' scenario, that's more wishful thinking.

You give a high-karma player a magick role and they may choose to play more visibly, so far as using their PCs magick.  Versus, players with little karma who are much more careful about how they use the PCs powers in private and in the open.  

I think WarriorPoet meant people with at least 14 karma like me and Delirium.

Quote from: Malken on April 18, 2015, 09:13:32 AM
I think WarriorPoet meant people with at least 14 karma like me and Delirium.

Let's suppose that happens.  If you decided to start casting spells in front of your clan or other ally PCs, then magick has visibility.  You could have 1 karma or 9000 karma.  Trying to use that as a metric for magick visibility works to an extent.  That can only guarantee less people play magickers, however.  It doesn't guarantee mystery.

If you want to make magick more elusive, increase the difficulty for learning spells or meeting the prerequisites to perform them.  Or introduce new, strange things that even veteran players are forced to learn.

Poll clearly states 80%+ of the non-"other" group like the current levels of magick or want more.  The people who don't are the very definition of a vocal minority.  Let's move on already, IMO.

I wish magick (as well as most skills[especially combat skills]) Allowed you to add a custom emote for successes, so that spellcasting isn't as statick and predictable as it is now.

Quote from: FantasyWriter on April 18, 2015, 01:17:26 PM
I wish magick (as well as most skills[especially combat skills]) Allowed you to add a custom emote for successes, so that spellcasting isn't as statick and predictable as it is now.

I agree.  Though I have seen it happen with some PCs who just manually plug it in to give their magick that extra flavor.