Opinion on magick as a feature of the game

[Gunnerblaster]

I am pleased with the amount of magick currently in-game but I do wish to see more hate/fear roleplayed.

[Harmless]

I am pleased with the amount of magick currently in-game but I do wish to see more hate/fear roleplayed.

I think the hardest dichotomy is that magick is hated and feared yet legal in Allanak with the gem. That's where you have two diametrically opposed values clashing: condone (gemmed) magickers because they are CLEARLY valuable to Oashis and Templars, vs hate/fear them because magick in general is evil. People generally don't want to piss off Oashis/Templars. It ends up being a SECRET hate.

So, I think there's PLENTY of hate/fear being ROLEPLAYED. That doesn't mean it's outwardly roleplayed. Hopefully it's at least within thinks/feels and hemotes that you're not picking up.

[MeTekillot]

You dont need to secretly hate them. Oashi and Templars wwon't give a fuck as long as you aren't lynching them in the goddamn street.

[Is Friday]

I think most people think they know a lot about magick and rightfully get their clocks cleaned when knowledgeable players play a magicker. (Like me!) I feel as though many players at the 1-3 year vet status have a false sense of competence in regards to what they know about the game in general. Not wanting to RP fear for magickers stems from not actually being afraid of magickers, imo. "Oh, I can't be killed by this mage if I just do X and Y or they can't do Z". Okay buddy.

Never die, my fat tribal water mage that couldn't be killed.

[nauta]

I think most people think they know a lot about magick and rightfully get their clocks cleaned when knowledgeable players play a magicker. (Like me!) I feel as though many players at the 1-3 year vet status have a false sense of competence in regards to what they know about the game in general. Not wanting to RP fear for magickers stems from not actually being afraid of magickers, imo. "Oh, I can't be killed by this mage if I just do X and Y or they can't do Z". Okay buddy.

Never die, my fat tribal water mage that couldn't be killed.

I'm in that range and I'm totally freaked out by magic - and hitching multiple mounts.

[Is Friday]

[nauta]

That seems about right!  Now overlay it with fear of hitching multiple mounts - I think it'd be about the same.

[Dresan]

I think currently PC magick levels are fine. Your hear about magick or you might see a gemmer in the gaj or wandering around town. You might also see something strange from afar once or twice an IC year. Its there but its not in your face unless you go looking for it sort of there. It fits the lore.

I think gemmers/rogue magickers are hated and loathed enough that their players sometimes feel so isolated they store and role a ranger, I know I've done that more than once. As for fear, the code handles that well. For those that thing a magicker is easy to kill, well they might be in for a surprise. Equally, any magicker that thinks they can act like douche and/or terrorize mundanes is going to be in for a surprise too.   I feel the code and the world's reaction to it is pretty fair when it comes to magick.

That said while I think PC magickal levels are fine, its potential virtual magickal levels that are way too high. We've had players also complain about the glass ceiling for players being to low but again I feel this is just a product of  the virtual power ceiling is just so ridiculously high. The fact that sorcery kings exist really trivializes the story lines the playerbase experiences. I mean despite the battles,spies, etc etc...the war between tuluk and allanak, comes down to this, who can win in a one on one fight, Muk or Tek.  Thanks to the rhetoric and hype over sorcerer kings over the years, nothing else really matter that much.  And when you do get a cool plot like the spy plot, it almost feels jarring it could have happened under the nose of these all-knowing and all-powerful immortal beings.

It is not to say a volcano being moved across the known can't still happen, its just there should have been some very visible, noticeably obvious and serious detrimental consequences to such a enormous world changing act. Something like 10-20% of allanak's population suddenly dying in order to fund the energy costs of such an endeavor. Heck even 30% of allanak's population would have been a cheap price to pay to get rid of those gypsies.

[MeTekillot]

Something like 10-20% of allanak's population suddenly dying in order to fund the energy costs of such an endeavor. Heck even 30% of allanak's population would have been a cheap price to pay to get rid of those gypsies.

find out IC

[Dresan]

Something like 10-20% of allanak's population suddenly dying in order to fund the energy costs of such an endeavor. Heck even 30% of allanak's population would have been a cheap price to pay to get rid of those gypsies.

find out IC

its just there should have been some very visible, noticeably obvious and serious detrimental consequences to such a enormous world changing act.

Na.

[MeTekillot]

I can't really spell it out for you without giving it away but it's something you may want to look into as a magickally-inclined character or a person who has a reason to look into magick

[Dresan]

I can't really spell it out for you without giving it away but it's something you may want to look into as a magickally-inclined character or a person who has a reason to look into magick

I have an idea. However, you are still missing my point. If its something someone needs to find out IC, role a magicker, or frankly do anything other then role a character anywhere in the known, then it wasn't obvious enough, noticeable enough, or detrimental enough to warrants a storyline that involves a volcano being moved across the known. In short, I still feel the IC power levels are way way too high and I feel they need to be lowered,perhaps to the point where its not find out IC but just look in the history page, because even amos the grebber is likely to notice their leaders and city hurting in a catastrophic way for quite some time after committing such an act.

[wizturbo]

....because even amos the grebber is likely to notice their leaders and city hurting in a catastrophic way for quite some time after committing such an act.

What makes you think Tektolnes wants His City to pay the price of his magick?  Maybe he chose to draw his life enery from something else...?

[Jihelu]

....because even amos the grebber is likely to notice their leaders and city hurting in a catastrophic way for quite some time after committing such an act.

What makes you think Tektolnes wants His City to pay the price of his magick?  Maybe he chose to draw his life enery from something else...?

I like to imagine it was from elves.

[Dresan]

What makes you think Tektolnes wants His City to pay the price of his magick?  Maybe he chose to draw his life enery from something else...?

You mean something else that might coincidentally be something I wouldn't mind seeing gone too? Perhaps, perhaps. I won't lie, regardless of how it went down, a lot of the results of the HRPT did bring a big smile to my face.  


Anyways, long story short I still want to see Sorcerer kings and perhaps some of their top tier loyal lackeys gone too but PC magickers and their level are fine as they are.  

[Jingo]

thats a lotta ic info there, amos

[Delusion]

It's right there in the chronology. Probably helps if you know a bit about the Dark Sun setting - something that also applies to the chronology's very first entry.

[Dakota]

I think it's fine as is (if not even needing a boost). They don't need to be nerfed or anything like that.

The only time when it was out of control (since I've played) was 2011-2012(?). Rogue and gemmed magickers would run off to the Pah, try to make friends with d-elves (really...) and twink cast out there. Their was no cheques or balances to it. I make my SLK as a witch hunter to try and quell this. I slaughtered a heap of magickers and they all left the Pah (and if they stayed, they were hunted and the whole experience carried a sense of danger to it).  The situation was so bad before, I had some gemmed ruk try to make friends with my SLK... Then get pissy when I didn't play nice... (really...).

Wind Magickers around then kind of put in a lot of hate and cautious to how the population of arm (oocly) view them today and they deservedly, go the class bumped to 5 karma or w/e it is now.

MAGICK... should be feared and I think by all purposes it is. You just have to check yourself (yes YOU) each time you log in to remind yourself of A: racial sterotypes and B: magick sterotypes. RP that shit out. Don't mudsex the f-me viv just bc she/he can emote and is on when you are. They're a damned magicker that will wreck your shit. And if you DO fuck the viv and others find out and they don't treat you different? Then shame on all of you. Their should be a PK in that situation and I've seen it countess times (and no one ever gets PK'd).

This game is hard. It's supposed to be hard. Keep it hard. Magickers should make it hard, but we ALL should make it harder on the magickers. Just bc you have karma means you get easy mode? Fuck you. It means it should be harder and more of a challenge.

Magick is fine. We need more aggro rogue gickers though. I may make one if I ever get the right karma and no it won't be a wind gicker... that's easy mode and only losers PK with wind gickers (that's right. I said it. loser mode).

edit: I'm drunk on holiday in Barcelona but all of this post is true.

[MeTekillot]

only losers pk wiht assinans because it makse it v.easy because backstab!!! that's rigte loser mode

[Eyeball]

Ok, the magic system is great for the new players, but it's totally lost its mystery for many long-term players.

1. I'd like to see the system be refreshed. For example, introduce a form of runic magick. This would be magick exercised through symbols that are triggered by specific conditions instead of "casting". A mage would have a limit as to how many runes and of what power he/she could maintain, which would grow as the mage grows more powerful. Or some other idea, but something.

2. Give mages more of a role in the game. For example, perhaps its the elementalists that are holding the Known from becoming a hopelessly hot, dry wasteland, even if they don't know it. They're manifestations of a system trying to re-establish balance, but cannot because it's upset by the sorcerer kings and dragon wannabes. Give them some inklings of the struggle to play with. Or some other idea, but something.

[Lizzie]

Ok, the magic system is great for the new players, but it's totally lost its mystery for many long-term players.

1. I'd like to see the system be refreshed. For example, introduce a form of runic magick. This would be magick exercised through symbols instead of "casting". A mage would have a limit as to how many runes and of what power he/she could maintain, which would grow as the mage grows more powerful. Or some other idea, but something.

2. Give mages more of a role in the game. For example, perhaps its the elementalists that are holding the Known from becoming a hopelessly hot, dry wasteland, even if they don't know it. They're manifestations of a system trying to re-establish balance, but cannot because it's upset by the sorcerer kings and dragon wannabes. Give them some inklings of the struggle to play with. Or some other idea, but something.

And then what? What happens when the veterans have all experienced your new idea, and it's lost its mystery again? Add another thing. And then people get used to it, and you add another thing. That's how games get ruined; by people convincing staff to add things simply because they've become used to them. Armageddon is about plotlines, not code. If you're used to something, then try something else. As I said upthread - the mystery isn't in the spell list. It's in the who/what/where. It's in not knowing that the raider on the road is actually an evil nilazi who's been targeting you for months and is now about to make his move. It's in not knowing that your character's girlfriend is a secret mindbender. It's about you not knowing exactly which combination of magicks, natural defense, encumbrance, age, and weapon choice your particular character is using, to successfully defend against and destroy the unknown desert elf you see heading in your direction.

Game design rule #1: don't add to the game just because the top dog is bored.

[Hot_Dancer]

I'm not a fan of mages - having played in days when Whirans were  popular and all their friends benefited from their buffs.

Things seemed to get immediately better as soon as their karma requirement went up.

The game does benefit from them - magick in plots are good. Having the undefeatable uber-bad guy with world-ending power is cool.

I do wish some major area spells would severely alter the surrounding landscape.

There are some tranquil/relatively lush/very valuable areas in the game that have suffered all manner of massive magick-fueled earthquakes/fires/lightning storms/etc but there are hardly any scars or repercussion towards the offenders.

Off topic: I'm generally more concerned with poison power creep these days. People seem to have a few doses of peraine before they've filled their first waterskin in game these days.

[Eyeball]

Ok, the magic system is great for the new players, but it's totally lost its mystery for many long-term players.

1. I'd like to see the system be refreshed. For example, introduce a form of runic magick. This would be magick exercised through symbols instead of "casting". A mage would have a limit as to how many runes and of what power he/she could maintain, which would grow as the mage grows more powerful. Or some other idea, but something.

2. Give mages more of a role in the game. For example, perhaps its the elementalists that are holding the Known from becoming a hopelessly hot, dry wasteland, even if they don't know it. They're manifestations of a system trying to re-establish balance, but cannot because it's upset by the sorcerer kings and dragon wannabes. Give them some inklings of the struggle to play with. Or some other idea, but something.

And then what? What happens when the veterans have all experienced your new idea, and it's lost its mystery again? Add another thing. And then people get used to it, and you add another thing. That's how games get ruined; by people convincing staff to add things simply because they've become used to them. Armageddon is about plotlines, not code. If you're used to something, then try something else. As I said upthread - the mystery isn't in the spell list. It's in the who/what/where. It's in not knowing that the raider on the road is actually an evil nilazi who's been targeting you for months and is now about to make his move. It's in not knowing that your character's girlfriend is a secret mindbender. It's about you not knowing exactly which combination of magicks, natural defense, encumbrance, age, and weapon choice your particular character is using, to successfully defend against and destroy the unknown desert elf you see heading in your direction.

Game design rule #1: don't add to the game just because the top dog is bored.

Yeah, Arm is about plotlines. Basically the same ones over and over again. Doing nothing is a formula for having the "top dogs" leave. If that doesn't matter, then by all means do nothing. But I for one really miss some of the players that used to be here but left after becoming jaded.

[Lizzie]

Yeah, Arm is about plotlines. Basically the same ones over and over again. Doing nothing is a formula for having the "top dogs" leave. If that doesn't matter, then by all means do nothing. But I for one really miss some of the players that used to be here but left after becoming jaded.

As I said: doing something /only/ because the top dog is bored is a bad idea and a game ruiner. You don't change a game just to appease the veterans. You change a game because the game needs changing. What the veterans like might be considered in weighing the good with the bad when it comes to decision-making time, but it shouldn't be the only reason for change. Also, many veterans have returned lately. So I'm not too worried about veterans who left. Also you don't necessarily know which veterans left for which reasons. Some of them left because they didn't get along with staff. Some because they didn't like the changes being made (which would be in direct opposition to your theory). Some because they had lives outside the game that took priority and just plain didn't have time to play anymore. Some because they found another game they liked better, but had no particular fault with Arm.

[Jingo]

Who are these "top dogs" and why do I care about them?