Re: Zalanthan nobility

[Inks]

There are already enough nobles.  

[boog]

There are already enough nobles.  

Debatable!

[Inks]

8-10 In one city Is pretty top-heavy.

[Barsook]

Yeah, along with the Templars.  That's like 11-13 right there.

[RogueGunslinger]

8-10 In one city Is pretty top-heavy.

Are there seriously that many? I never see more than a handful of nobles around.

[Barsook]

Tuluk does has 6, I think.

[Talia]

8-10 In one city Is pretty top-heavy.

Are there seriously that many? I never see more than a handful of nobles around.

At a maximum, each of the cities has 6 nobles at a time. Often it is less than this.

[Barsook]

8-10 In one city Is pretty top-heavy.

So that number is really the noble + templar number.  But still, that's a lot of leadership.

[Inks]

Yeah it is nobles + Templars

[Patuk]

I also think 6 is more than enough for either city.

[Centurion]

11-13? Hardly. Not in the North anyway. 6 is a great number + templars. I think it allows for a lot of opportunity, and stops noble characters from getting boring so quick, cause they can actually have a social life with those of their caste. Want to have an actual party, you invite everyone, and you might get half (due to diff playtimes and such), so you still at least get 3-4 nobles, maybe 5.

[HavokBlue]

There is a very high turnover for rate on northern nobles, I think.

[valeria]

11-13? Hardly. Not in the North anyway. 6 is a great number + templars. I think it allows for a lot of opportunity, and stops noble characters from getting boring so quick, cause they can actually have a social life with those of their caste. Want to have an actual party, you invite everyone, and you might get half (due to diff playtimes and such), so you still at least get 3-4 nobles, maybe 5.

This.  I've played a noble as one of three nobles and I was constantly bored.  Having six nobles allows for exponentially more interaction and politics than having three nobles.  Which means nobles stick around longer and make more plots.

[Delirium]

I have this theory that every noble house could be made virtual and the game would actually improve for it.

[Patuk]

I have this theory that every noble house could be made virtual and the game would actually improve for it.

Of the game's playable noble houses, about half of them deal only in virtual work anyway.

[nauta]

I have this theory that every noble house could be made virtual and the game would actually improve for it.

I sometimes have thought that too, I mean: that's 12 PCs (or whatever the number is north/south) that could be in the rinth!

[RogueGunslinger]

Ehh, I think we definitely need some noble houses.

[Quell]

I have this theory that every noble house could be made virtual and the game would actually improve for it.

It might be interesting to replace the nobles with high-ranked aides to keep the political plots going, but also allow for less restricted interaction.

[Delirium]

I have this theory that every noble house could be made virtual and the game would actually improve for it.

It might be interesting to replace the nobles with high-ranked aides to keep the political plots going, but also allow for less restricted interaction.

Yep. Even the highest ranked aide is at least somewhat grittier than a noble, and has far more interaction possibilities.

[Down Under]

Disagree.

Nobles can be gritty as fuck.

[Beethoven]

Noble is a tough and isolated role to play and can feel a lot like animating an NPC at times (not that I would know what animating an NPC feels like, I suppose) but they bring the oppression and social inequality of the world to life, and I think city play would suffer without them.

[Delirium]

Ideally they do, except they don't (with the exception of the occasional very skilled player). It's a difficult role that often seems empty of the vibrancy and authenticity available elsewhere in commoner roles, unless the noble is surrounded by a large enough cabal of employees and/or associates. This means that when those roles are interesting and lively, there is an inevitable upswing in noble house employees, which means a correlating upswing in visible quality of life, quantity of silk, and abundance of coin... which is, to my mind, a large portion of the reason Tuluk has the reputation it does: too many noble houses. They compete for players, for understandable reasons, leaving it difficult if not nearly impossible for a player character to remain a lower-class citizen unattached to the nobility's strings. Unless they want to be very isolated. So they get bored, die, and/or store. And the cycle continues...

[Malken]

We should open up a tribe of nobles that live in the middle of nowhere, like the red desert or something.

[Beethoven]

I think one problem is that nobles care too much for their low-ranked and newly-hired servants or affiliates. Why should they care if Joe grebber called their generic new aide a taffer? They shouldn't be going after Joe; they should be telling their servant to stop bothering them with their petty kankshit.

[Delirium]

They care because they are bored out of their skulls.

They also care because good employees are so hard to find that their value is unnaturally inflated.

Should they care? No. Will they care? Yes. It's a symptom of a larger problem that is unlikely to be fixed until the root cause is addressed.

[Beethoven]

Yeah. Well, that is a very real problem.

[Down Under]

These are pretty flimsy generalizations.

I think Noble Houses do fine with 1-2 employees, either in Allanak or Tuluk.

I think Nobles that rely on others to have fun become bored and store. Those that are self-starters and have real characters behind the vending machine tend to stick around. The more Nobles and 'upper crust' there are around to interact with, the more likely they are to stick around, because they aren't sitting in a bar by themselves doing nothing.

A lot of what makes those roles fun is up to the person playing them. There are 'real problems' and 'perceived problems', and I think this one is the latter.

As a Leadership PC in either a Noble or Templar position, I let people come to me. I don't seek out aides or employees to make my life easier -- If the person is seeking me out, to me it OOCly means they want the job, as well as ICly. I think there is plenty of room in Allanak, and Tuluk, for non-affiliated Commoners and people just being regular joes.

[Delirium]

I would rather see those self-starters in other roles, for all the reasons I've previously stated. I did clarify that self-starters can make something out of these roles, that doesn't invalidate my point that I think the TYPE of role is ultimately damaging to the game's atmosphere and we'd be better off without it.

I expected this to be an unpopular viewpoint, though. I'm not expecting people to agree with me.

[Down Under]

People might agree with you if you had stronger arguments for why those self-starters are better suited to non-Noble positions.

I've seen 'High End Aide' roles in Tuluk and Allanak, and they inevitably end up being a courier between Staff and other PCs, because they don't have someone legit to talk to. That sounds like a pretty boring job to me. I'd rather be playing the person ordering a High End Aide around, and making decisions that might alter the direction of my House or the game-world around me.

[Delirium]

You realize that you're calling high-end aide roles boring for the same reason I'm calling noble roles boring?

Seems kinda flimsy to me.

The point is that the aides would fill the gap left by the nobles, but would be able to interact with a broader portion of the playerbase while raising less OOC eyebrows.

[Down Under]

No, I am calling high end Aide roles boring because they act as courier between Staff and the Playerbase, while the Noble can just interact with Staff and the Playerbase and accomplish far more than an Aide can.

I think it's speculative to say 'aides would fill the gaps left by Nobles'. Not by a long shot, in my opinion.

Also speculative to say 'be able to interact with a broader portion of the player base while raising less OOC eyebrows'. Whose eyebrows are raised?

Playing a Noble requires interaction with Staff -- If you interact with Staff and sell them on your ideas, you have enough virtual backing/power to make things happen. As an Aide, you don't have that gravitas virtually, and ultimately are just a lackey of 'The Man'. You don't have the gravitas to speak with your superiors candidly about ideas or concepts, because you're just a servant, receiving marching orders and doing.

They're completely different roles, especially from an RP sense, and also an OOC standpoint.

[Dresan]

I think the staff may have made a subtle change to the way a couple organizations hire people that should make things more interesting. Particularly in the north, where its always seemed like there were more people hiring then there were people to actually hire.


Hopefully I'm right about the change, and hopefully it is a permanent one. Thinking it might just be a trail period to see how things work out so far so good from what i am seeing though.

[Patuk]

Afaik, staff don't butt in on hiring practices in most clans, and I doubt noble houses are an exception.

[Delirium]

It seems to me like you're taking this kind of personally.

I'm not saying current players are doing a bad job. I'm sure they're doing the best they can with what they're dealt.

I do think you're discounting what a high-end aide could accomplish if they were essentially acting with their noble's authority. Nobles have similar block-points after all; their own superiors.

In the end, I'm just pie in the sky wishing for a gameworld that was focused on the lower echelons.

[KankWhisperer]

Get rid of all the 'high' parts of the game.

Make it actually low magick, low politic, without deus ex machina Kings and too big to be defeated organizations.

[Down Under]

Oh no, not personally at all.

I just don't agree with you.

A commoner aide 'empowered by their Noble to act on their behalf' is still a commoner Aide. They don't interact with the Upper Crust in the same fashion, and that Upper Crust RP appeals to plenty of people that play Armageddon. It seems (to me) like doing all of the things a Noble does, without the perks of being of 'noble birth' and being better than everyone else, and all the cultural stuff that comes along with it.

I think if you don't want to play Upper Crusts, then there's no reason to!

But I don't think that means the Upper Crust is inherently broken. It seems plenty of people are enjoying it currently with no (tangible) issue, in both Allanak and Tuluk. Sure there are little problems, as with many of the roles in ArmageddonMUD, but they don't constitute it being broken, IMHO.

[Patuk]

Re: Tuluk seeming to be way more noble-heavy than Allanak is;

Allanak has a lawless area with a mobster clan in it, whereas Tuluk instead has a collective of clans that focus on art and history. Additionally, Allanak has an entire class of people who are hated by most anyone and have a really hard time getting anywhere socially.

Which sounds like the more top-heavy atmosphere?

[Down Under]

Allanak also has an oppressor Caste that basically can 'do what they want' within reason (sometimes without reason).

They also have a Caste of Nobility that can 'do what they want' within reason, to other Nobles and Commoners.

Tuluk has a restraint that holds those 'powers that be' back to a certain extent. I think that balances the Top Heavy nature of Tuluk, against the lack of restraint that can be exhibited in Allanak.

By example, in Allanak, a Noble could tell a Commoner to take off their pants and take a shit on a table, and the Commoner would basically (under pain of death), have to do so. Other Nobles might even give that Noble a high-five, because fuck commoners.

In Tuluk, a Noble would never do something like that, and if they did, all of their Noble buddies would probably not invite them to any fancy parties or for tea-time anymore. They wouldn't not do it because, also, fuck commoners, but it'd be gauche, and way beneath them to exhibit power so brazenly.

[Narf]

Get rid of all the 'high' parts of the game.

Make it actually low magick, low politic, without deus ex machina Kings and too big to be defeated organizations.

I don't want to get rid of the politics, but I'd like the politics to be less about grand noble machinations and more about which beggar controls which street corner.

[BadSkeelz]

An important role nobles in both cities fill is kick-starting shenanigans that are just too involved, complicated, expensive, or balls-out-insane for commoners of any stripe to come up with.

[Patuk]

That affects RP with the PC's that are already there, not the PC's that go to play there in the first place. Where an Allanaki thief might be tossed into the dung pile inside the stables or get tossed of the whiran tower and magically healed thrice, the same thief in Tuluk is more likely to get punished away from the public eye, and in a less humiliating fashion.

And that's all well and good, but it does nothing to encourage people playing dirty commoners in Tuluk.

Another point is that the approachability of nobles in Tuluk makes it way easier and more likely for people to somehow end up in their grasp. If you're some nobody in Allanak, a noble has good reason to pay you no attention whatsoever. A nobody in Tuluk may have to interact with high class PC's way more.

[Down Under]

Different flavors, one taste.

[Barzalene]

Delerium, I hear what you're saying about focusing more on the lower echeleos. Its persuasive. The reason I cannot agree is because nobles done well can often really highlight the dichotomy between have and have nots.That can be really compelling.

I do wish aides were less silky. I mean once someone becomes an established high level servant, that's different, but... Ok this is my bias. I just ... You know. Let's all remember our place in the scheme of things.

[nauta]

I think part of the problem is there are two different claims being made:

1. That nobles as a kind aren't playable (or, if playable, aren't healthy for the gameplay experience of everyone) in principle.

2. That nobles as a kind (...) not in principle but granted the low playerbase (since although [1] is false, those noble kickstarter PCs would best be out there kickstarting in a role that has a lot more of a chance to improve the gameplay experience).

I'm inclined to agree with (2), and I've always been fond of the notion of consolidating this part of the game by moving all the playable nobles into one city.

[MeTekillot]

Don't get rid of nobles, how will my teenageppickpocket make a living withoutsstealing 300+ coins per steal attempt without their bulging coin sacks

[wizturbo]

Noble roles are a bit of a catch-22. 

There's a certain critical mass required for noble politics to function, but opening up enough roles to reach that critical mass will depopulate other areas of the game.  It also increases the ratio of noble/noble-affiliated PCs in respect to the rest of the player base...which makes the cities feel overly saturated with nobility. 

Increasing the size of our player base would certainly help solve this, but until then, I think we just need to deal with the bloated ratios of noble/noble-affiliates to the lower echelons.  Armageddon without active noble houses would be missing something that's essential...removing them would be a cure that's worse than the disease.

[Dresan]

Get rid of all the 'high' parts of the game.

Make it actually low magick, low politic, without deus ex machina Kings and too big to be defeated organizations.

Maybe someday. 

Its going the right direction in terms of player power levels, with the old sorcerer class gone, just needs to go in the same direction virtually as well. Immortal all knowing omnipotence turns what would other wise be great story lines and events into so much cheese.

[wizturbo]

I don't mind the "high" parts of the game.  I'd just like them to be fleshed out, and have more weaknesses to balance out their strengths.

[Inks]

I agree with delirium.

[Barzalene]

We probably need a thread. But I'm at work and can't. I don't mind the power imbalance. I would like them to have more meaningful content, things that they could do from day one that had clear value. Reasons to pursue power in a way more quantifiable.

I had some really clear ideas back in 05, but they didn't have legs.

[RogueGunslinger]

Every time someone talks about these sorts of issues it always come down to a player numbers problem. Not enough nobles = not much fun for nobles. Too many nobles = not enough lower politick stuff getting focus.


I say we just eliminate a major city and then have enough people to fill all walks of a cities structure. Force everybody closer together and you force the different classes to interact with each-other leaving less of a "nobles do their noble thing, commoners do their commoner thing."

[Beethoven]

Some of my most memorable scenes in the game were with PC nobles: being oppressed, being forced to do humiliating things, being railroaded into execution, and having their superiority rubbed in my face. I would hate to have that dynamic and tension taken away.

I fully understand the challenges (and boredom) that players of nobles face, believe me, and they are very real problems. Nonetheless, I would hesitate to respond to those issues by adding nobles to the growing list of unplayable roles.

[Desertman]

Every time someone talks about these sorts of issues it always come down to a player numbers problem. Not enough nobles = not much fun for nobles. Too many nobles = not enough lower politick stuff getting focus.


I say we just eliminate a major city and then have enough people to fill all walks of a cities structure. Force everybody closer together and you force the different classes to interact with each-other leaving less of a "nobles do their noble thing, commoners do their commoner thing."

I wouldn't mind seeing smaller areas of civilization, but I don't want to see one city wiped out with one city remaining. I like the idea of two powers going to war from time to time. I love wars.

I would love wars between three or four outposts about the size of Redstorm even more though.

Allanak and Tuluk take a fall and a few Redstorm sized/Luir's Outpost sized villages pop up as the new dominant world powers.

Oh yes plz.

It would make the entire game so much more gritty and it would make the overbearing "hand of God" some organizations have less omnipotent and crushing.

I would trade cutthroat merchant barons at war with each other for nobility and god-level sorcerer kings any day.

That's a personal taste thing though. It may very well ruin the game for everyone else.

[wizturbo]

I would trade cutthroat merchant barons at war with each other for nobility and god-level sorcerer kings any day.

My hope is that in a few years there are established PC created and PC lead organizations that fulfill this role of merchant barons, while still framed underneath the power of respective sorcerer-kings.

To take the nobles and sorcerer-kings out of Armageddon would kill the setting for me.

[Desertman]

Edited out because I realized that is mostly just hypothesized speculation on my part that could be wrong. 

[RogueGunslinger]

Every time someone talks about these sorts of issues it always come down to a player numbers problem. Not enough nobles = not much fun for nobles. Too many nobles = not enough lower politick stuff getting focus.


I say we just eliminate a major city and then have enough people to fill all walks of a cities structure. Force everybody closer together and you force the different classes to interact with each-other leaving less of a "nobles do their noble thing, commoners do their commoner thing."

I wouldn't mind seeing smaller areas of civilization, but I don't want to see one city wiped out with one city remaining. I like the idea of two powers going to war from time to time. I love wars.

I would love wars between three or four outposts about the size of Redstorm even more though.

Allanak and Tuluk take a fall and a few Redstorm sized/Luir's Outpost sized villages pop up as the new dominant world powers.

Oh yes plz.

It would make the entire game so much more gritty and it would make the overbearing "hand of God" some organizations have less omnipotent and crushing.

I would trade cutthroat merchant barons at war with each other for nobility and god-level sorcerer kings any day.

That's a personal taste thing though. It may very well ruin the game for everyone else.

That's like the opposite of what I want. A bunch of mid-sized cities would spread everyone out too much and was one my major problems with the proposed Arm2.0. I think MUDs do large scale 1000vNPC and 40+ player battles very poorly, which any war between Allanak and Tuluk would have to turn into. I think cold-war style spying, with blood spilled in back-alleys and in the Arena through champions and political maneuvers, is much more intriguing than that massive war spam-fests. And it can all be done within the playable sphere of one another. 

You take away one city(lets be real here, it'd be Tuluk) and then I imagine both Storm and Luirs would see a surge of players. Those two can go to war with each-other over spice or something, and that I think would work very well. They could have allegiances to different Nobles houses in Allanak with both vying for the favor of the Templarate. But they wouldn't be so far removed from the game like Tuluk tends to be.

With more people filling out nobles houses we already have and more people in the commoner class as well, they can go to war with one another for a multitude of reasons. Ever seen Spartacus? Many noble houses all vying for position, power, and glory. All within one city, with plenty of bloodshed, and intrigue, encompassing everyone from slaves to nobles, to kings.

[Desertman]

I could get behind that as well. Though I would still prefer three to four Luir's/Redstorm sized areas with less all powerful established rulers.

I could also get behind an Allanak with no sorcerer king and only noble and merchant houses fighting for tentative control. They all know they have to at least put up a front of "law and order" or everything collapses and there won't be anything to rule, but they are all also competing with each other against each other for control.

No great overlord ruler of god-power...just a bunch of backstabbing power hungry/blood thirsty Houses all working with and against each other all at once.

(Drow cities basically.)

[wizturbo]

The thing to keep in mind is that the player-created organizations in question are really only going to be puppet-extensions of already established organizations.

They have to get the approval of and favor of an already established organization in order to even exist. That means they have to bend a knee to them. That means they are basically just a vassal to that larger power.

This is how they begin, yes.  What's to say that's how they'll always be though?  The status quo cannot be challenged unless you have a foothold in the world.  No start up business is built without outside help, be it financial, social or political.  The same is true in the real world.

What happens after these Houses become established is where things get interesting.  What happens when a House changes hands to its heirs, and those heirs don't agree with the status quo?  These are all interesting questions I hope to see the answers to in the coming years.

[CodeMaster]

I'm not well versed in playing nobility, but I'd agree with Delerium too.  It strikes me that a trusted, high-level aide could accomplish a large subset of the things a junior (i.e., PC) noble could.  Running and choreographing arena events, planning and organizing parties, etc.

If I were given the choice to be a Tor noble or be a Tor lieutenant/equivalent, I'd go with the lieutenant in a heartbeat.  It's also self-serving, but I'd rather have a Tor lieutenant/captain/whatever in the game than a Tor noble, if I had to choose between the two.

At the very least, it would be an interesting experiment to conduct to see if some noble houses could be run without a noble PC, but with a couple of high-level aides at the wheel.

[edited to add: n.b., this is essentially the model the Byn runs on; the players are sergeants.  They get to lead PCs around and choreograph plots, but they also get to be commoners and continue to live in a harsh, low-technology desert world]

[Rathustra]

I'm not well versed in playing nobility, but I'd agree with Delerium too.  It strikes me that a trusted, high-level aide could accomplish a large subset of the things a junior (i.e., PC) noble could.  Running and choreographing arena events, planning and organizing parties, etc.

If I were given the choice to be a Tor noble or be a Tor lieutenant/equivalent, I'd go with the lieutenant in a heartbeat.  It's also self-serving, but I'd rather have a Tor lieutenant/captain/whatever in the game than a Tor noble, if I had to choose between the two.

At the very least, it would be an interesting experiment to conduct to see if some noble houses could be run without a noble PC, but with a couple of high-level aides at the wheel.

[edited to add: n.b., this is essentially the model the Byn runs on; the players are sergeants.  They get to lead PCs around and choreograph plots, but they also get to be commoners and continue to live in a harsh, low-technology desert world]

House Tenneshi has not had a noble in... six months? Likely more. It is entirely active and its current highest ranked PC is involved in the politics of the city. All Northern Houses are now set up to be sustainable without noble PCs. Noble PCs make things easier and have more agency, however.

[CodeMaster]

House Tenneshi has not had a noble in... six months? Likely more. It is entirely active and its current highest ranked PC is involved in the politics of the city. All Northern Houses are now set up to be sustainable without noble PCs. Noble PCs make things easier and have more agency, however.

That is awesome!

[montarion]

You take away one city(lets be real here, it'd be Tuluk) and then I imagine both Storm and Luirs would see a surge of players. Those two can go to war with each-other over spice or something, and that I think would work very well. They could have allegiances to different Nobles houses in Allanak with both vying for the favor of the Templarate. But they wouldn't be so far removed from the game like Tuluk tends to be.

Oh man, this is perfect.

You still get the warring factions that provide a narrative for conflict, but now you also have an uninvolved third faction that serves as a central mingling place, with politics getting more complicated as the higher-ups among all three factions jockey for position, with commoners, tribals, and mercenaries getting swept up into war that isn't quite such a pitched battle (and loyalties aren't quite so divinely mandated).

[Rathustra]

You take away one city(lets be real here, it'd be Allanak) and then I imagine both Morin's and Luirs would see a surge of players. Those two can go to war with each-other over spice or something, and that I think would work very well. They could have allegiances to different Nobles houses in Tuluk with both vying for the favor of the Templarate. But they wouldn't be so far removed from the game like Allanak tends to be.

[Eyeball]

I'd like to see nobles given some special powers involving the direction of NPCs.

For example, a Tor noble with a few military units to position and give directions to (e.g. blockade an entrance).

A Borsail noble with some slave-taking raiding parties to send out (e.g. harass grebbers in the north).

A Fale noble with a NPC quartet of musicians that can be set playing, or a NPC comic trouple that can be set frolicking down a preset path, making announcements and dispensing candies or something.

Give these characters tools, and they will use them to maneuver politically and make the game more interesting.

NPCs in general could be made more capable and interesting, for that matter.

Now of course someone will come on here and say they can use PCs to do that, which misses the point entirely.

[RogueGunslinger]

You take away one city(lets be real here, it'd be Allanak) and then I imagine both Morin's and Luirs would see a surge of players. Those two can go to war with each-other over spice or something, and that I think would work very well. They could have allegiances to different Nobles houses in Tuluk with both vying for the favor of the Templarate. But they wouldn't be so far removed from the game like Allanak tends to be.

I'm glad we're agreeing in principle to the idea of consolidation It's a great start!

As for Allanak Vs Tuluk, I think it's pretty obvious which would upheave the playerbase more.


And, with that I'll get off my soap box. Sorry for the mini-derail.

[Rathustra]

You take away one city(lets be real here, it'd be Allanak) and then I imagine both Morin's and Luirs would see a surge of players. Those two can go to war with each-other over spice or something, and that I think would work very well. They could have allegiances to different Nobles houses in Tuluk with both vying for the favor of the Templarate. But they wouldn't be so far removed from the game like Allanak tends to be.

I'm glad we're agreeing in principle to the idea of consolidation It's a great start!

As for Allanak Vs Tuluk, I think it's pretty obvious which would upheave the playerbase more.


And, with that I'll get off my soap box. Sorry for the mini-derail.

The only fair choice is Steinal.

[Patuk]

y u no ptar ken

[Barsook]

House Tenneshi has not had a noble in... six months? Likely more. It is entirely active and its current highest ranked PC is involved in the politics of the city. All Northern Houses are now set up to be sustainable without noble PCs. Noble PCs make things easier and have more agency, however.

I had a feeling why this PC was able to do this in the North.  It's just not that common in this day and age (in real life and in game) to see high ranking aides like they were back in 2004-2006, if I'm not mistaken.  <--- Don't know why I said that.

When was this set up to be like this though, about when House Tenneshi lost it's Chosen and this PC was left?

[nauta]

As someone who is sort of persuaded by the 'consolidation' arguments, I have a question:

The phrase 'I love Tuluk' appears ambiguous from the discussion.  Is it:

a. You love Tuluki RP (whatever that amounts to, but the higher-order stuff, involving tea, subtlety, and bards).

b. You love Tuluk and its environs (as distinct from the RP)

c. You don't think the two could be separated and so you love both.

If (a) it seems like you might be able to just 'ramp up' the higher-order stuff amongst the nobles in Allanak.

[valeria]

Don't take my nobles.  I will cut you.

[Barzalene]

I think we don't need less nobles, but a political process for nobles to participate in.

[Delirium]

What do the people who enjoy playing nobles enjoy about the role?

Not at all a snarky question. I am curious.

[Barzalene]

What do the people who enjoy playing nobles enjoy about the role?

Not at all a snarky question. I am curious.

I always lik the opportunity to provide situations that include others (I don't always succeed, but I like to try.)

I like emphasizing the grittiness by incorporating an awareness of the schism between have and have nots.

[Cutthroat]

What do the people who enjoy playing nobles enjoy about the role?

Not at all a snarky question. I am curious.

For me, there's a mix of IC and OOC challenges and goals that keep noble roles interesting. ICly, they're in a delicate place - it's a balance between living a lavish and privileged lifestyle relative to almost everyone else in Zalanthas, legitimizing the templarate and the noble-templar relationship through your existence, and having a specific set of duties depending on your House and your city. As a noble, you can be a trendsetter in the playerbase by reinforcing the themes of the world or the particular area you're in. OOC wise, it's the challenge of designing plots that both make sense for your character to pursue and also serve your purpose as a sponsored role by involving as many PCs as possible in them. The gratification from playing a noble comes as much from other players seemingly enjoying their PCs as it does enjoying your own noble PC.

[Gimfalisette]

What do the people who enjoy playing nobles enjoy about the role?

-- Leading minions.
-- Making powerful enemies (templars and nobles in my city-state).
-- Making weak enemies (commoners in my city-state, templars and nobles elsewhere).
-- City politics, personal politics.
-- Embodying the ideal of the relevant culture (both city and clan).
-- Sparking plots.

[Zoan]

We should open up a tribe of nobles that live in the middle of nowhere, like the red desert or something.

Arabetti?

[senseofeven]

Why noble role?

• Stumbling around.
• Learning how to politics.
• How to make friends and enemies.
• Know which to make friends and enemies.
• Doing something and making it happen IG.
• Having PCs love your PC.
• Money, resource and POWAH. Do whatever you want.
• Group of minions to do your evil bidding.
• Solving, anticipating, preparing, enduring and handling whatever being thrown or not thrown at you unexpectedly and it's more often than you think.

Feels like Game of Thrones a little bit. It's been interesting and I get constant interaction. It's nice for a change!

[MeTekillot]

The best thing about being a noble is that you're as effective as all your minions combined. The worst thing about being a noble is that you're as effective as all your minions combined.

[HavokBlue]

The best thing about being a noble is that you're as effective as all your minions combined. The worst thing about being a noble is that you're as effective as all your minions combined.

and you have nobody to spar with

[MeTekillot]

Yes you can. Just beat on your staff. Your defense will be shit, though

[BadSkeelz]

The best thing about being a noble is that you're as effective as all your minions combined. The worst thing about being a noble is that you're as effective as all your minions combined.

and you have nobody to spar with

Gregor Clegane begs to differ.

[MeTekillot]

The best thing about being a noble is that you're as effective as all your minions combined. The worst thing about being a noble is that you're as effective as all your minions combined.

and you have nobody to spar with

Gregor Clegane begs to differ.

High strength is so OP.

[Delirium]

Heh. Honestly, I'm not seeing much on those lists that can't be done with a merchant House agent...

.. but different strokes for different folks

[boog]

Heh. Honestly, I'm not seeing much on those lists that can't be done with a merchant House agent...

.. but different strokes for different folks

Not everyone wants to be abused for OOC ordering problems they can't avoid.

I loved being a pseudo-merchant. But having to make up excuses every time an order is late, or if staff shift, or any of that... Euuuugh.

I'd much rather be the noble slapping the plump-cheeked merchant in the face.

[Barzalene]

It's a  little like being a vending machine. When people don't get what they wanted fast enough they sometimes shake and kick you.

[Patuk]

One will note that the Great Merchant Houses have an extremely good sense of business ethics and have customer satisfaction as their greatest goal whilst all employing ego-lacking ascetes as their operators to ensure no ills may befall those people who complain to them.

[Bushranger]

Heh. Honestly, I'm not seeing much on those lists that can't be done with a merchant House agent...

.. but different strokes for different folks

Not everyone wants to be abused for OOC ordering problems they can't avoid.

I loved being a pseudo-merchant. But having to make up excuses every time an order is late, or if staff shift, or any of that... Euuuugh.

I'd much rather be the noble slapping the plump-cheeked merchant in the face.

This is why all of my characters share the trait: Be relaxed and chill about merchant orders. All of them are like "Sure take your time with my order Agent Fluffypants, no rush."

Also: Noble slapping sounds like Allanak's next big craze! Thanks for the meme boog!

[Delirium]

That's why I said Agent, not Merchant. You couldn't pay me to play another merchant role. Those guys have my sympathy.

[Patuk]

I wish people stopped complaining about 'people expect orders to get filled too quickly.' It happened to me all of one times when I played a merchant role. If you have a monopoly, act like it, and don't be afraid to tell pushy people to shut the hell up when they're being dumb.

[LauraMars]

What do the people who enjoy playing nobles enjoy about the role?

Grinding the filthy, illiterate masses under the weight of my recently-bathed, perfumed heel, whilst delicately nibbling on exotic fruits from the deadliest places of the Known fed to me by naked, bejeweled slaves who cater to my every whim.

and uh being a leader and um minions yeah

[Molten Heart]

It would seem to me Zalanthan Nobles aren't very noble.

[Desertman]

It would seem to me Zalanthan Nobles aren't very noble.

It's my estimation that every man ever got a statue made of'em was one kinda sombitch or another.

[valeria]

What do the people who enjoy playing nobles enjoy about the role?

Not at all a snarky question. I am curious.

• Creating events and plots for other people to enjoy.
• Helping people move their plots along.
• Minions.
• Not having to worry about food, water, or money.
• Reading, writing, and research.
• Playing the type of personality that would probably get me killed or be unrealistic if I wasn't a noble.
• Being better than you 99% of the time.

[Delirium]

You guys have convinced me to give a noble role another go someday.

Maybe I'll have more fun.

[valeria]

It's a lot more fun with more nobles around, but it still has its moments of boredom.  Mostly you have to make your own fun, so make sure you're playing a concept that can do that, and make sure that's something you want to do before apping.

[Delirium]

Making my own fun is one of the things I'm best at in this game.