*UPOTW: Clans and Logging on to play.

[ShaLeah]

We've all seen them, merchants who disappear for months at a time, recruits who never seem to log on after they've been hired, aides that get a wardrobe and then disappear until an ic year later, nobles who get bored with the role and retire.

I'm not saying that you have to be logged on 24/7 or that absences aren't okay, but if you're going to play a high end character you should have some consideration for the people who have to roleplay around you.

What I would like, and I think this is only common courtesy, is to see people who are in high profile jobs either log on more or leave the role to someone else who has that ability.

If you join a clan, please have some courtesy and log on to play, if you can't, let the clan Immortals know so that they can inform the others who are ic'ly wondering where the hell you are.

Am I being too anal?

ShaLeah
-who knows damn well what a change in schedule means.


* Useless Poll of the Week.

[mansa]

I voted retire.

People come and people go -all the time-
The world isn't going to end, and the clan isn't going to be destroyed from the game world, if there isn't player's characters in it.  There are still virtual merchants and nobles about, all the time.

If you haven't seen, say, a Kuraci around in Tuluk lately, it's not correct to say, 'Oh, those Kuracis are stuck away in their estate' or if you haven't seen a Borsail about in Allanak, to say, "Must be very low on the political standings, those Borsails, because I haven't seen one in two real life months"


So, if you got that Byn Sergeant, who's supposed to be an active, recruiting, member of the game, and you only log in once a month to spar your buddy, then retire them.  Some positions are withheld from other people's characters because -you- hold them.

RETIRE!  PLAY THAT PICKPOCKET ELF!

[Callisto]

Am I being too anal?

Yes.

[ShaLeah]

So, if you got that Byn Sergeant, who's supposed to be an active, recruiting, member of the game, and you only log in once a month to spar your buddy, then retire them.  Some positions are withheld from other people's characters because -you- hold them.

RETIRE!  PLAY THAT PICKPOCKET ELF!

That's exactly what I mean.  I am not saying at all that the world is going to collapse because a templar/noble/merchant/byn sergeant take a week or two off. But I definately think that a month RL without logging on, or logging on once a week just to log right back off without doing anything but checking the color of Kadius that week, is way too long to be of any use.  

The fact of the matter is that the world does pause when an important character suddenly stops logging on. When the person you're looking for IC'ly is not around it has very real IC effects, worry, frustration, annoyance, fear, gladness...

There are plenty of things to do out there without your taking an important role and then stagnating it.


ShaLeah
-who maybe shoulda made two polls, one for high end players and one for regular joes.

[Anonymous]

I have really odd playing hours.  Sometimes I'll play at work, sometimes I won't play for days.  Because of that I stay away from joining clans as a courtesy to those who might depend on me.

It also fits my personality because, no matter how hard I try, my PCs attempts at being in a clan normally end with some huge public blow up that ends with me either dead or soon to be.

[Angela Christine]

I think telling low-time players not to join clans at all is going too far.  Asking them to avoid pivotal positions is more reasonable.

I've seen clanned PCs that avoid making sergeant, even though they are ICly qualified, because the player knows he won't be on enough to fulfill all the OOC requirments of the role.  Naturally even a low-time character becomes important if he lives long enough, but while it is good to have that Private, Corpral, Trooper, hunter, junior aide, etc., around, it doesn't make much difference ICly if they are there or not.  They are only one of dozens (perhaps even one of hundreds or thousands in the case of big organizations like the milita) of that rank in the organization, so if you don't see him you can easily assume he is working in some other area, like the many VNPCs that work in other areas.

It only really becomes a problem if the PC has a lot of individual responsiblity.  A PC in charge of distributing the payroll, or who is the only PC capable of taking orders, renting property, or making/communicating other decisions for their house has to be around more.  After the liberation of Tuluk for a while there was only one templar at a time (sometimes there seemed to be no PC templars at all) to represent everything that all the templars of both orders would be doing, so if s/he wasn't around it was hard to communicate with the government in an IC fasion.  If a merchant house only has one agent, and that agent isn't around much, then it really sucks to have to wait months and months (several years IC) to get a petty item delivered.

Basically, any time there is only one PC of a certain rank it is important for that PC to be around.  If your house has 3 or 4 merchants able to take special orders in a given city, it won't be a huge inconvinence if one of them goes MIA for a while, as long as he has been keeping the clan imm updated on his activities.  If a noble house has 3 or 4 nobles but one of them isn't around much, then "his staff" can work with other members of the house to keep busy.  If you have 6 guard, soldier, or hunter types, it won't rock your world if one is missing.  It's always good to have another sword along, but not critical.  Then again, you never know when an unlikely and unfortunate series of events is going to strike, and suddenly Junior Merchant #3 is the only PC merchant left for his house.  Poor bastard.

So basically I agree that people with little time to play, and those that know their schedual is likely to become erratic in the near future, should avoid unique and important roles.  But they shouldn't be excluded from clans or  "middle-management" type roles entirely.  Many people simply aren't happy playing loners and outcasts, so they play as part of a group or not at all.  Even a noble or merchant house family member could work, as long as the role is created with the understanding that -this- family member is not going to have much responsibility: a fop, a dandy, a spice-addled diletantte,  a semi-reclusive scholar who rarely leaves his library/laboratory/observatory, or even a heavy breeder who is obsessed with the care of his/her 12 children.  The character has rank, but doesn't speak for the house, only appears in public occasionaly and doesn't keep a personal PC staff, so the another PC takes on the role of the House Representative, exactly as though there were no other PC family members.


Angela Christine

PS. Since we're on the subject, I'm moving on September 24th, so I'm not going to be around as much for the next week or two.  I don't think anyone is counting on me to be here, but don't worry  if you don't see me for a couple days.

[Rindan]

I have felt the pinch of suddenly going from playing all the time to only sneaking in a few hours a week.  I agree with those who suggest that such people simply avoid the spot light.  That is not to say that you can't take a break as a leader.  You just can't do it erratically and you need to have people prepared for it.  There is absolutely nothing with vanishing for a month if you give everyone a heads up, slap together a cover story, and be on your way.  If you can come back a month later and play normally, then in a month the clan will have a full time leader again.  You just can't do it often, and when you do, you really need to plan it.

I am at the point where I can't play long enough to be a leader anymore.  I salivate at some of the roles I have been offered, but I have learned that for everyone's sake (including mine) it is best to simply turn down such roles, no matter how juicy, until one can properly play them.

I can offer advice though to people who want to play part time but still no be a complete hermit.  A lot of unofficial gathering roles offer great flexibility.  You can work out a business relationship with a clan, play like you normally would, then when you have enough of whatever you want to sell, you can sell it.  You get to interact with a clan and be sort of on the periphery, but you are not so important that anyone cares if you suddenly vanish.

Magikers also tend to make decent part time player.  True, you are never going to have worlds spinning on your finger if you play part time, but as a magiker it is one of the few roles where you can get neck deep in someone's politics and not join the clan.  People will want to use you for one time short or long term missions.  Generally, you can take these as they come and often times complete them at your leisure.

Odd ball nitch characters often times make great part time characters.  A child, a begger, a blind man, an obsidian miner, a spice collector... all of these people can be played part time.  They have the potential to be interesting when you do play them, but you are not forced to constantly be on.

If you play in long spurts then take a bunch of time off then you can probably pull of a semi-permanent role like a mercenary.  Join an organization as a mercenary for a time, get to a point where you are going to take time off, quit, then join another organization when you have time again.

Finally, you can just play a loner of one kind or another.  Pick pockets, lone hunters, wild magikers, scavenging children, the possibilities are really endless.

[My 2 sids]

More than a few times I've had to struggle with my character not having an IC reason to change and me (as a player) being just too frustrated with no one showing up or logging on.  So yes, my first response is like many of the ones being posted here "don't have a high profile role."  However, I don't think –anyone- should be punished for choosing real life over a game.  Again, Armageddon (no matter how much we joke or wish) is just a game.  And I do believe that the game in general would suffer if players who don't have a lot of time... were "forced" out of the game.  

But, there is something to be said that if a player knows they don't want to spend a lot of time in game... there are a few things a player could do to be considerate to the other players and game.  

:arrow: Have a few OOC connections.  Normally, high profile characters have other characters counting on them to play.  If you're going to be gone or think someone might confuse you as being dead, tell people!  Share what's going on.  Email the Imm, post on the house's gdb board, whatever, so that players know what's going on.  

:arrow: Rely on other characters.  If you have a noble... have a trusted servant that has the ability to fund paychecks.  If you have a merchant... have an aide that can take and/or fill orders.  Things like this won't take away from the importance of your character, they will allow the game to continue with out you.  

:arrow: Hire/work in pairs.  No one wants to solo play by themselves –all- the time.  If you have one person working for you, let them be able to hire someone so they can have associates.  There would be rules... nothing finalized, nothing too important to be shared, but it would allow them the ability to interact with other house members.  Have a trusted partner that can make decisions for the both of you if need be.  

:arrow: You may "die".  In a world with harsh realities and people 'disappearing' why be surprised people jump to any number of excuses for your absence?  Why fault people for going to look for other employment?  There is always some NPC to blame for bad information.  Heck, even your apartment could be rented out if your not there to pay the rent.

:!:   For those who don't play much but want a clanned or important character just do little things that allow for play around you're being gone.  Its not fair for the people who are logged in, nor is it fair for you because no one should have the responsibility and pressure to be logged on at all times.  

One more thing, if you do see someone who hasn't logged in for a long time, don't spend too much time on them being gone.  Its not fun for anyone if ALL play revolves around someone not being around.  Plus, they would be... just as a vnpc.  :wink:
:wink:

[CindyLou]

I agree with most of what's already been said. Basically, if you're playing a high-profile character and suddenly find yourself unable or unwilling to log in, please either retire the character, or let the players of your clan know so they can make arrangements to do -something- with their time, and find some method of acquiring money to live on. And something to tell the people who ask for your character, so your character's employees don't look like total idiots.

It is very very unfair to everyone who relies on your character's existence, if that character is known to be alive, if they don't show up for real-life weeks at a time without anyone having any idea why, either IC, OOC, or both.

I've known templar PCs who've just disappeared, but their characters still existed. Fortunately I was in touch with them via AIM and knew they were just not playing, and was able to manage during their absence. But there seems to be plenty of people who play "important" PCs who don't even try to communicate with their clan-mates, and that's just asking for OOC resentment, because there is no way to explain it IC, if the characters aren't informed.

Then, they might assume the PC is dead, which is a perfectly reasonable assumption to make. Or they might assume the PC has been "reassigned" which is also a perfectly reasonable assumption to make. And then, a real-life month later, the "important" PC shows up..and um..err..woops?

You make everyone look foolish, including the people your character has trusted to hire. And you make it difficult for people to enjoy their roles. So please..COMMUNICATE.

If you need to be gone and intend to come back, keep your clan mates up to date. Let them keep you up to date, so the IC "virtual" communication doesn't cease.

If you need to be gone and don't intend to come back, retire the character. Don't leave people hanging. It isn't fair to anyone.

[Tlaloc]

Speaking for myself, I'd just like to point out that its really annoying when someone commits to a leadership type position in your clan, but then can't commit to the times to log in.

In the Byn, I've had several PC's who were active enough to be good Troopers get promoted to Sergeant, and then suddenly decide they don't have the time to log in anymore, and completely quit logging in all together. This puts me, as a staff member, in the lurch because now I'm effictively out a PC leader. This puts the rest of the PC's in the game in a lurch because now there is one less leader who is logging in to give other PC's stuff to do, recruit, and keep the clan active.

Being a Sergeant in the Byn can take a bit of time to play. It doesn't take hours of play every day...but it certainly takes more commitment to in time to play out than Troopers or Runners. There is absolutely no shame in passing up a promotion if you feel that you won't have the RL time to play - indeed, there is also no shame in demoting yourself, to allow another PC to fill the role if you no longer have the time to play it. Troopers are the heart and soul of the Byn...you don't have to be a Sergeant, to be thought of as a badass.

So for me, personally, I would much rather a PC let me know in advance if they can't play, before taking on a "leadership" role. Barring that, I think it would be very polite of them to inform me if they weren't going to be able to log in enough, and maybe offer to demote themselves, or retire the characters. Otherwise, I'm left wondering if the PC leader is just on a 'short break', or has quit the game completely, and I might think twice before recomending that Player in a similar role in the future.

As a note: not all clans are the T'zai Byn, heh. They might work alittle differently, but ultimately, the effect is the same. If your PC leaders quit logging in, that effectively kills the forward momentum your clan was having - and thats really, really, really bothersome, and causes lots of undue stress upon your already overloaded clan staff. Don't do that - we won't bite if you let us know you're not planning on being around much, but we might bite if we get surprised, and have to do alot of extra work to salvage whatever plotlines we had going, or to replace you during your absense.

Just a few thoughts from one staff members perspective.

[Ayashah]

Something you might want to take into account is, that high profile character might BE logged on just not where you are use to seeing them. I had a high profile character that ended up stuck in another city for almost an IC year due to IC reasons. When she finally returned there were so many that had assumed she died.

But yea, I understand completely about the frustration of waiting a RL month to get into a supposedly easy to get into clan due to the ones able to let you in -never- being on. If one takes on a job in a clan that holds responsibility to others rp'ng under them, they take on the responsibility of being accessable. No, that doesnt mean they HAVE to log on nightly.

What these high profile people can do is set up a routine of being around at certain times. Maybe let it be known that on most Cingels they have been noted taking it easy in a tavern, etc. Then make an effort to always be there on that day when it comes up IC.

[spawnloser]

I'll just make a note about the high profile characters that should be selling things...when they're not around, people start getting antsy for their orders that have taken 3 IC years to get to them.  Roleplay must go on, so characters start making up assumptions about what's going on.  Be careful when taking a high-profile role.  Lots of people, in and out of clan sometimes, will be dependant on you in some fashion.

[Tamarin]

I know this is a lofty goal, but from my experience, there are frequently -not enough leaders- in any given organization.  I have had characters where the 'leader' logs in so infrequently that his/her underlings have starved nearly to death.

Perhaps this has not so much to do with lack of play time, as two players may just happen to -never- play at the same time, as it has to do with -quantity- of players.  If an organization had a couple of players to fulfill the necessary roles (leadership, instruction, payroll, food if necessary, etc), then their underlings would be much more likely to have a fulfilling RP experience.  I do realise, however, that Arm has only so many players, and more experienced ones may want to break away from the rigidity of clan structure.

So i say: if possible, try and put more people in leadership roles.  Be mindful of appropriate IC times for promotions/graduations.  Don't promote people who can't handle it, obviously.  Maybe let players know OOC that leadership is needed so they can actively aim for something.

Just a thought.