Mastercrafting Policy Suggestion

[FantasyWriter]

Moved to avoid further derail:

To add: I've always thought that each sponsored leadership role in crafting clans (GMHs and Most tribes) should get one master craft (or one additional master craft if they themselves are capable of producing one) per month from virtual crafters.  This is one of the perks that should come along with being a part of or buying from a Merchant house as opposed to Mastercrafter Talia off the street.

I've had this issue handled in a similar way before when my PC and his minions weren't able to meet crafting deadlines, but most of the sale went to the house when I was paid and I only kept the seller's fee. (in other words: The virtual crafter got paid for their labor).

I really REALLY like this idea. Though it has nothing to do with the topic of guild sniffing

[ShaLeah]

I'm Meh on this, not that I think it SHOULDN'T be possible but I -like- the idea that GMH Leaders have three options.
Hire and train people who can do shit for them.
Be the Merchant you want others to be.
Grovel with your very busy merchant/trade branches "already established master crafters" and beg for them to make something for you.


Now if you're a leader in the merchant side, your ass SHOULD be a merchant. You have to know all that. Should Amos Joe'Shmo Sergeant be able to master craft? No. He shouldn't. He should either have people be able to do it for him OR he can beg the fam to allow one of the vnpc people do it for them.

Why am I Meh on this? Cause every single motherfucker who wants to play a badassmutherfucking warrior assassin GMH 'leader' can then, once a month, get a MC done without an inch of actual work for it but writing the desc (which is OOC) and submitting it.

Compromise?  One a year but all profit goes to the House.


I would rather involved the player and get it done through your minions.

[valeria]

Maybe in the old days before master crafting extended subguilds I would have agreed that there was a pressure there as a GMH to play guild merchant in order to be assured that someone will be able to mastercraft for their House, and that it felt really restricting.  Now, I don't.  I think that if you want to be able to personally mastercraft something as a House member, you should play guild merchant or apply for an appropriate extended subguild.  And if you choose not to do so, you accept the challenge of having to find people who can do that for you.

[Molten Heart]

Since they are a sponsored role, maybe allow for the option for GMH family members to be a master crafter in one area (if it fits the character concept)

[Malifaxis]

Yeah, this totally sounds like a great idea.

And I hope someday we can have a poll about playing a merchant/florist Legion/Militia Sarge with the ability to pick one PC per month to have murdered by VNPC master assassins.

(NO  FUCK NO.)

[Nyr]

If crafting is important to your concept, you can roll up a guild or subguild that would allow it.  If you don't have special app slots, petition your staff for an exception for your sponsored role.

[Barzalene]

I do agree merchant houses should get a couple of extra mastercrafts a year, whether they're assigned to crafters or to the house itself. It would make the job of being a merchant far easier. Take off some of the stress of getting it all done.

[Italis]

No merchants should be feeling any stress about getting stuff done, especially when it comes to mastercrafts. They're just a nifty bonus, not part and parcel of playing a sponsored GMH role.

Making special custom-built items available to buyers is something you can do, if you want, and if you have the employees with the skills and the time and the motivation. Otherwise, feel free to direct anybody bothering you to the nearest NPC merchant. If you check out the requirements for a GMH merchant, you won't see "produce many, many mastercrafts" anywhere on the list.

Seriously, playing a GMH clan leader is tough enough without stressin' about stuff like that.

[MeTekillot]

The thing is, everyone wants their own special thing. Lord Templar Hardnose Fale doesn't want to use the same sword as Lady Templar Coldeyes Borsail. Second Hunter Goobai Kadius may not care so much that he has the same set of pants as Lieutenant Shakedown of His Arm, but he still wants a fancy pair of pants.

That's where mastercraft pressure comes from, I mean. The players, not what players are expecting of the roles. More people want snowflake gear than standard issue gear.

[Reiloth]

An issue, also, is if people can't get master craft stuff from GMH, they will go to indies that can, which has (historically) made Indies garner too much independent wealth and influence when they should not. I remember a particular Indy in Tuluk that was basically flying in the face of all the documentation changes that were going on, because they could provide items of an interesting nature, and master-craft. Obviously there was more to it than that, but it was peculiar in that regard.

I do agree with the sentiment that master crafts are not a requirement of a GMH role -- The last GMH family member I played had a grand total of 0 Master Crafts ordered/tooled out. However, as MeTik pointed out, there is a desire from many people that play the game to have their sleek, rantarri-headed cane. That doesn't mean they deserve it, and I have always been a proponent of 'money /= custom crafts'. Status should dictate whether or not you get a custom craft, and it shouldn't be expected to arrive next RL month on the dot OR ELSE (Also, I have seen Nobles/People in power outright BAN purchases from a GMH because they did not get their stuff in a timely manner. How gauche!)

I think there is room for custom equipment in this game -- It's a great bit of flair to add to your well-established character when it makes sense they would want it. I also think that GMH Family members should be given master craft slots. They should be designing new lines of clothing, a nifty new weapon, or an armor design independent of any Powerful PC From House Blois Wants Something. The GMH should be dictating style, fashion, armor, weapons of destruction, and so on -- Not the people ordering it. And I will add, when a House has a cadre of master crafters, it seems to work out this way. When they do not -- That GMH seems a bit behind the times, unable to keep up with these sorts of demands. As Italis pointed out, I think that is fine, they shouldn't be able to meet custom 'To Order The New Thing I Want For Me Only' demands, however...

A GMH Family Member that is not a master crafter themselves should still be able to dictate to virtual crafters what they are aiming for -- And those crafters should more-or-less fill in the details. They grew up learning all this stuff from day one -- And should have a firm grasp on what their House sells, and in what markets.

Instead of:

"Where's my sleek-rantarri headed cane you nincompoop!"

It would be:

"Have you seen our new dagger set, Lord Poopy?"

The power remains in the GMH hands, not in the people coming up with their own nifty dagger sheath. While they might not be able to make your "Just For Me' new set of pants, their Fall Fashion is being rolled out next month, and maybe something will catch your eye...

[creeper386]

I want to say I like Reiloth's post.

[Reiloth]

Another thing I thought of as well...

While a GMH might have a restriction of Status = Custom Crafts, Maybe, an Independent will not have such restrictions. All they will want is money, cash on the barrel head, and voila, you will get your custom loot.

To counteract this, GMHs should be able to introduce new products and product lines seamlessly, at a rate that reflects the dozens/hundreds of virtual crafters slaving away in Santa's Little Workshop. I'm not sure what the magic number is, but maybe 1-3 every couple of months for a family member of a GMH. Or, even better, don't make it a hard and fast rule, but more of a collaboration between Player and Staff. I would rather see a new product line than a new specific product custom made for one PC, that no one can have access to, or is restricted to a specific House's Guard Unit.

[Incognito]

I voted No.

Reasoning: Who gets to decide which PC gets to use the VNPC Mastercrafter?

I know for a fact that in GMHs there is usually one leader PC in the north and one in the south. That PC might be an agent or a merchant. S/he might have some skilled crafters working for them who're actually running the whole show as far as IC crafting goes.

It just becomes an OOC nightmare, when you have multiple locations and multiple PCs who're vying for control of a VNPC - more so because the output of that VNPC is moderated to once a month RL.

I am all for having more ways to get master crafted items into the game, but, we need to come up with some other way to implement this - and the thing is, only Staff can really give viable suggestions on this issue - since they're the ones who're actually doing the manual work of adding the master crafted items to the game.

[Ziel]

It's a shame there's not a "No, but..." option.  I'd pick that one.

I think that the GMH/applicable tribals leaders should have to have someone with the appropriate crafting skill available to be able to submit those custom crafts.  But since it's being dicated by the leader, then I don't think that should count against that crafter's limit for the month.  I'd see this working like:

• Leader goes to crafter and requests a custom design of some sort.
• Crafter opens up a request with the proposed item.
• Staff opens up a request with the leader to give the details of the item, as if it was a prototype they were being asked to review.
• Get feedback from the leader and the crafter, and then put the final item through.

For certain crafts, primarily clothing, it'd be nice if it wasn't limited to just one item at a time.  Instead, allow a certain number of color variants.  Same item, same description otherwise.  Or, with things like armor, allow the submission to be a full matching set:  helmet, collar, breastplate, etc.


Here's another idea though.  If someone's playing a crafter with access to a GMH's resources, drop the requirement for making a custom item from master level to journeyman level.  The items can't be as fancy as if it was a master crafter doing it, but it still allows them to introduce new items into the game.  If it's someone who'll eventually be a master, like a guild merchant, it lets them start doing things sooner.  If not, it lets those poor vanilla subguild folks in on things too.  Staff could just be a little more discerning about which of these journeyman custom crafts go through.

[Marauder Moe]

Maybe what we really need is to re-define the role of a GMH merchant.

Maybe they shouldn't be considered the face of the House, with access to all of its resources.

Maybe they should be thought of as quasi-independent agents, one of many affiliated with the House, but each with their own pool of resources/employees.  Sort of like Byn sergeants, each Merchant could have their own "unit", and that's all.  Certainly there should be perks being with/of the House, but we need not necessarily consider unlimited access to talent and materials to be among them.

[RogueGunslinger]

That's sort of how I've seen most clans leadership roleplaying recently.

[Reiloth]

Maybe what we really need is to re-define the role of a GMH merchant.

Maybe they shouldn't be considered the face of the House, with access to all of its resources.

Maybe they should be thought of as quasi-independent agents, one of many affiliated with the House, but each with their own pool of resources/employees.  Sort of like Byn sergeants, each Merchant could have their own "unit", and that's all.  Certainly there should be perks being with/of the House, but we need not necessarily consider unlimited access to talent and materials to be among them.

That's actually a fair point to make.

The only problem with it are Family members of the House, who I don't think should be adrift like non-Family.

[Mook]

Yeah, this totally sounds like a great idea.

And I hope someday we can have a poll about playing a merchant/florist Legion/Militia Sarge with the ability to pick one PC per month to have murdered by VNPC master assassins.

(NO  FUCK NO.)

[Fujikoma]

Not all mastercrafts are created equal, I don't know if it's such a fine idea for anyone who manages to land a sponsored family role to design up to three items a month. If you want to mastercraft, be a merchant, if you want to backstab, subgiuld slipknife. If you want assassin backstab, then, assassin/foofoomaker or whatever. Seriously, people, this isn't an issue. If you want to mastercraft, pick a guild or subguild that does it, and stop downplaying the advantages Houses get in all civilized (and not so civilized) parts of the known like they're at a disadvantage.

[HavokBlue]

Mastercrafts are cool and exciting and when you're trying to organize RPTs and events and what not as a GMH leader but don't have anyone to mastercraft...

It's lame as fuck.

I think it would be super neat if GMH agents could order a mastercraft per month if there was no merchant available.

I'd take it a step further and say it would be cool as fuck if iso clans like the SLK and Sun Runners could order up one mastercraft a month if they have no merchant.

[Reiloth]

What I was saying was more that Mastercrafting seems to be done for specific people, when they want a specific item. Hey Merchant Guy can you make me a badass sword with a diamond in the hilt and dragons all over it?

It'd be cool if that were more limited to Nobles/People of Status, rather than any joe with some money. I suppose that depends on the Merchant/Family Member, but it'd be nice if it were more that way, and master craft slots were used to expand product lines.

[creeper386]

More of:
"Hey joe, we need a fancy new sword ... A sword EVERYONE is going to want ... everyone!"

Versus:
"Bob down the street, yeah, that kankfeckin' breed. He's paid us to make him a new robe."

?

[Reiloth]

Right.

[Ender]

I'd like to see the system change to something like this:

Rename Mastercrafts to Unique Crafts and give Mastercrafts only to crafters in Merchant Houses.

Indy merchants/ext subguilds can still make unique items, but they are given hard limits in value and quality.

Quality to represent both their lack of access to materials/tools that would truly facilitate something you would consider a MASTER craft.  

Value would be limited because it doesn't matter how many diamonds you jammed into your gold encrusted bastard sword, it just doesn't have that Salarr stamp on it, so people simply won't pay as much for it.


An indy merchant could only gain access to true mastercrafts if they manage to make their organization into a Minor House as per the rules announced earlier this year.

[Fujikoma]

That's a horrible idea. What about the people not mastercrafting unique items, but interesting crap for the lower classes? What about the lack of recipes that needs to be filled out over time? Screw clans, they can handle their own line of crap and we can handle ours.

[Ender]

That's a horrible idea. What about the people not mastercrafting unique items, but interesting crap for the lower classes? What about the lack of recipes that needs to be filled out over time? Screw clans, they can handle their own line of crap and we can handle ours.

I don't understand what your issue is.  My idea would force non-clan merchants to do just that.  They'd be making more mundane normal items to fill out the world.

unique crafted items: unique but lower quality goods than master crafts.  Could be used to give a crafting recipe to existing non-masterwork items that currently lack crafting recipes.

masterwork crafted items: OMG MASTERWORK

[Fujikoma]

That's a horrible idea. What about the people not mastercrafting unique items, but interesting crap for the lower classes? What about the lack of recipes that needs to be filled out over time? Screw clans, they can handle their own line of crap and we can handle ours.

I don't understand what your issue is.  My idea would force non-clan merchants to do just that.  They'd be making more mundane normal items to fill out the world.

unique crafted items: unique but lower quality goods than master crafts.  Could be used to give a crafting recipe to existing non-masterwork items that currently lack crafting recipes.

masterwork crafted items: OMG MASTERWORK

Allllright. As long as we can continue to mastercraft things that others can craft, I don't mind, and in fact, agree. Whenever someone approaches an indie crafter of mine and says "I'd like a jewel encrusted saber that no one else can have." he acts interested and hears them out, says, I'll think about it and get back to you, and never does. Why am I going to spend a RL month making just one thing for just one PC that will probably end up locked up in some cabinet of curiosities, when I could be designing some crap that folks are going to be using for forever? Plus, there's no gaurentees my PC will survive the next month, even. If they have an agenda they're working on, it really doesn't make sense to halt the presses for Lord Poopypants's custom dildo, because they're rushing to complete their own work frantically before someone or something kills them. You want a ruby studded dildo, Lord Poopypants, please select the appropriate extended subguild before making your PC, that is all.

[valeria]

I'd like to see the system change to something like this:

Rename Mastercrafts to Unique Crafts and give Mastercrafts only to crafters in Merchant Houses.

Indy merchants/ext subguilds can still make unique items, but they are given hard limits in value and quality.

Quality to represent both their lack of access to materials/tools that would truly facilitate something you would consider a MASTER craft.  

Value would be limited because it doesn't matter how many diamonds you jammed into your gold encrusted bastard sword, it just doesn't have that Salarr stamp on it, so people simply won't pay as much for it.

An indy merchant could only gain access to true mastercrafts if they manage to make their organization into a Minor House as per the rules announced earlier this year.

I don't see the need for this change because it pretty much already exists in game.  If staff doesn't think that your character should be able to mastercraft an item because you don't have access to the tools or materials to make an item, they will politely inform you when you submit your mastercraft.  It says so right in the helpfile.