Discussion of Player-Created Clan Progression

[CodeMaster]

If a warehouse isn't available to move onto step 2, is your progress essentially halted (until you, say, kill one of the existing warehouse owners)?

[edit: step 2 not step 3]

[Adhira]

If a warehouse isn't available to move onto step 2, is your progress essentially halted (until you, say, kill one of the existing warehouse owners)?

[edit: step 2 not step 3]

Murder. Corruption. Betrayal.

[CodeMaster]

If a warehouse isn't available to move onto step 2, is your progress essentially halted (until you, say, kill one of the existing warehouse owners)?

[edit: step 2 not step 3]

Murder. Corruption. Betrayal.

Very cool... I don't envy our future PC warehouse owners - you all are going to have a huge target painted on your back.

[FantasyWriter]

Awesome to have things spelled out.  I am a big fan of transparency when it comes to how things are ran and how decisions are made (in general, not just here).
In contract to what was said earlier, I would have expected the time required to get from one step to the next to be longer, butthat is certainly not a complaint.

Thanks staff!

[X-D]

Ah, had missed those in the larger picture, cool.

[Fujikoma]

I tried thinking about the possibilities made available for this, and my brain just took a gigantic shit in my head. Wow, thanks, I don't think I'll sleep for days.

Then I read the part about: humans only, and thought, what? Surely not. This is the perfect opportunity for elves to actually make a clan for themselves, and yet... nope. Still! Awesome!

EDIT: Although... a clever elf could certainly pick a human they could trust, manipulate, or otherwise have leverage over.

[KankWhisperer]

So you can combine Player-Created Tribe and Player-Created Clan?

[bcw81]

Do we have any idea when this system will go live? It sounds really awesome!

[HavokBlue]

It looks like warehouses might be online in a month give or take?

I am really excited for people to start pursuing this stuff.

[BadSkeelz]

I didn't know they were down?

[HavokBlue]

I don't think you can rent one right now. Weren't you supposed to go through indie staff and animated Nenyuk agents to get them before?

[Barsook]

I think House Nenyuk needs to be open again...

[HavokBlue]

I don't know, I think a lot of this can be handled by the Templarate and in the North at least, there's another house with a specialty in this sort of thing.

[wildhalfling]

Well, those enterprising elven, dwarven and breed wannabe warehouse owners can always have a human proxy if they can find one they trust enough right? Let the human act as the head of the company while you give all the orders. They said you get two keys. If that one dies, let the next human in your company step up to take his place. This might also work to keep the target off the actual "bosses" back. Hmm...now I am having some great ideas popping into my mind. I have said enough...

[Nyr]

Do we have any idea when this system will go live? It sounds really awesome!

Probably in a few weeks.

It looks like warehouses might be online in a month give or take?

I am really excited for people to start pursuing this stuff.

I didn't know they were down?

Warehouse use has been few and far between.  We have watched to see how players used warehouses.  At first, clan organizations that already had plenty of storage were sending out clanmembers (or loosely associated clan members) to get warehouses.  We nixed that--it was not intended to be additional storage for people that had it, but additional storage for independents.  One independent or two did get on a ways with some of their own ventures.  One became inactive, the other was killed.

Warehouses are currently not available for a few reasons.

1)  No one has one.
2)  No one fits the requirements to get one given the new system.
3)  We need to make some changes to the ones in Tuluk to allow the front office area to lock.  Not a big deal, but it changes the possibilities immensely.

Once the system is online and in documentation, people can get their licenses and all that and start killing each other to get a warehouse that is open.  Or break in and steal everything, if possible.

I don't think you can rent one right now. Weren't you supposed to go through indie staff and animated Nenyuk agents to get them before?

Yes, you had to get staff to set it up.  There was no automated system for rental.  This will still be a largely manual process, though we expect that there will be code available for automatic deductions from bank accounts on a periodic basis.

I think House Nenyuk needs to be open again...

Of the Great Merchant Houses, Nenyuk is in the unenviable position of (probably) being the most boring one to play; its reach and grasp far exceeds most clans.  I think it is unlikely we will ever open it back up, even for this.

[Fujikoma]

Players too rich? Want harsh and gritty? Let elves run Nenyuk, BAM, problem solved.

[BadSkeelz]

I had also gotten a feeling that the warehouses under the old system didn't quite "work." I do remember one being used as a shop and that was quite nice, but that was the only interaction with warehouses I ever saw. It seemed to me you could cram all the stuff you needed in to an apartment for a fraction of the cost.

Weren't they something like 5000 sid to rent? That seems like a lot of coin to pull together through legitimate (i.e. non-twinking) means, but I've never played a merchant. This new system doesn't make them any cheaper.

My feeling is that this system has the potential to do some rebalancing of the game economy by creating a money sink for those merchants who do acquire "excessive" amounts of coin without anything to spend it on. This will only work though if the independents feel like they have to go in to this system for protection. The GMH and Templarates (and potentially other organizations) will need to be sure to provide those incentives.

[Reiloth]

5000 coins is really nothing for mid-level merchants. Especially if they have a couple of hunters working for them, bringing in hides and materials.

What this system does (for me) is provide a road-map for where and what that Warehouse can be to an Indy Group. It isn't just going to be a storage area -- It can be a plethora of things, and it is a stepping stone towards a higher goal. I like that quite a bit.

[wizturbo]

5000 coins is really nothing for mid-level merchants. Especially if they have a couple of hunters working for them, bringing in hides and materials.

What this system does (for me) is provide a road-map for where and what that Warehouse can be to an Indy Group. It isn't just going to be a storage area -- It can be a plethora of things, and it is a stepping stone towards a higher goal. I like that quite a bit.

I agree with this line of thinking, we shouldn't think of them as purely "warehouses".  They're facilities.  They provide a larger amount of space to work with.  They might be setup as a training facility, a workshop to build things that are usually too big to build elsewhere, even a place to practice fighting.  They're not residential facilities though, that part comes when you get a compound.

[HavokBlue]

You know, if the wagonmaking skill ever goes in...

[Nyr]

Staff-side documentation is now in beta phase (over 4500 words of material, FWIW).  We've already made a few changes from the original announcement, and I think some are in this thread.

A couple of those changes:

• If a clan does make it to the trading company level (stage 4), ownership CAN be transferred.  Painfully, but it can be done.  Ownership transfer implies that the new owner takes on all debts and obligations of the organization and must establish their own tax history, since they are "new."
• A Minor Merchant House must set up a line of succession, but it doesn't have to be hereditary.  The key point here is that the "heir" assumes all debts and obligations of the organization.  Succession is pretty painless.

We've laid out basic guidelines for everything from costs to building guidelines, including stuff that players may want to do (that is okay to do) and stuff that players may want to do (that is not okay to do).  We also have old code that is being repurposed to use for shopkeepers, so the only code stuff that is remaining at this point is a way to squeeze bank accounts on a periodic basis.

Once we've reviewed these beta staff docs and clarified any remaining questions on them (there are still a couple that came up while writing them), we'll have player documentation put up on the website.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

This is a great step towards the sandbox grail a lot of people love.

[Fujikoma]

I have some complaints about (stuff), but I assume they'll work themselves out in a healthy "find out IC" format without any need for intervention. In other words, duck and cover (or, my favorite, run like hell, THEN do that)!

I'll also be looking forward to when the process is established enough that it can be applied to less civilized areas, because civilization = bad, awful, nasty mess of needless cruelty. More community cooking fires in out of the way places, and maybe armor repair shops, would be nice, too. Thanks for all the hard work on this stuff, the fallout should be hilariously toxic.

EDIT: Edited to remove info that shouldn't be public, whoops.

[Nyr]

I have some complaints about (stuff), but I assume they'll work themselves out in a healthy "find out IC" format without any need for intervention. In other words, duck and cover (or, my favorite, run like hell, THEN do that)!

Like?

I'll also be looking forward to when the process is established enough that it can be applied to less civilized areas, because civilization = bad, awful, nasty mess of needless cruelty. More community cooking fires in out of the way places, and maybe armor repair shops, would be nice, too. Thanks for all the hard work on this stuff, the fallout should be hilariously toxic.

This will probably not ever be applied to less civilized areas.  There is a reason they are less civilized.

[Molten Heart]

I'll also be looking forward to when the process is established enough that it can be applied to less civilized areas, because civilization = bad, awful, nasty mess of needless cruelty. More community cooking fires in out of the way places, and maybe armor repair shops, would be nice, too. Thanks for all the hard work on this stuff, the fallout should be hilariously toxic.

This will probably not ever be applied to less civilized areas.  There is a reason they are less civilized.

What can players do (if anything) to create change and improvements in less civilized areas?