Changes to crafting tools.

[Nathvaan]

As part of the continued incremental changes to crafting, crafting tools have received a little love!

This is the discussion thread, so get to discussing!

 
• Change to allow for some optional values on a recipe for a tool type required and quality required.
• When crafting it will look first in the player's equipment, then inventory then room, for a suitable tool of high enough quality.
• There is now a chance that hand held tools will degrade depending on the recipe's difficulty and and the character's abilities.
• Tools that degrade too far will break and need to be replaced.
• Certain permanent tools in the room will not degrade.

Thank you Nessalin for these continued crafting updates!

[Desertman]

This makes meh happeh. 

[Patuk]

Awesome.

[Malken]

Nice.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

Excellent. I'm with this all the way.

[nauta]

I'm -really- into this!

The one problem (loosely related) I have is that as a newbie, I often got into stupid (immersion breaking-ish) situations where I (as a player) had no idea which artifact was the right tool (sometimes I just didn't know, sometimes the sdesc/mdesc of the tool was vague) even though my PC would have totally known.  Sometimes this would be solved by asking IG, which was a bit immersion breaking.  But more often than not, I'd just fall back on the old virtual fletching tool and virtual knife, coupled with an emote, so I wouldn't break RP.  

Easy enough solution: (1) have analyze tell you not only the ingredients but the tools and (2) IDEA/TYPO any tools that are so vague that it's hard to tell what they are good for.  Maybe?

[Patuk]

>assess (tool)

You're not wrong, though. People now may miss certain recipes because they can't find a fricken woodworking knife.

I really hate those knives.

[Gimfalisette]

as a newbie, I often got into stupid (immersion breaking-ish) situations where I (as a player) had no idea which artifact was the right tool (sometimes I just didn't know, sometimes the sdesc/mdesc of the tool was vague)

Or just don't play characters who know things you don't know. Then join a GMH and have someone teach your character how to do stuff, then you'll know too. It's really OK to not know stuff, and to roleplay that out. In fact, it is a lot of fun and I highly recommend doing it, especially for veterans.

[nauta]

as a newbie, I often got into stupid (immersion breaking-ish) situations where I (as a player) had no idea which artifact was the right tool (sometimes I just didn't know, sometimes the sdesc/mdesc of the tool was vague)

Or just don't play characters who know things you don't know. Then join a GMH and have someone teach your character how to do stuff, then you'll know too. It's really OK to not know stuff, and to roleplay that out. In fact, it is a lot of fun and I highly recommend doing it, especially for veterans.

Yeah, that too, I totally agree.  However, my experience (and what I've observed) offpeak with that has been... not the best, both in terms of finding a PC to actually enlist you and in terms of getting a PC around to teach.

Usually, the what-tool-is-it problem has been super minor, but anything to make offpeak people's lives a little easier is a plus, imho.

EDIT: Updated to add, that in almost -every- case I've figured it all out through the (a) HELPER chat, (b) once or twice a judicious use of WISH, (c) trial and error, and (d) a fellow PC.

[Adhira]

The 'what tool to use' scenario is a common one that also annoys staff. We've got a method to manage this in the works, it should be in asap, I believe Nessalin has it up for peer review with the other coders. Essentially the analyze command will inform you if a recipe requires a tool and what that tool will be. Existing tools will be updated as we move to implement this since recipes will now require a certain tool of a certain quality, rather than the current model which is that a tool type will give a bonus to the skill.

Expect to see more vendors selling the lower quality type tools and new businesses that might rent out space in their crafting areas with access to their in room tools (or communal crafting spaces such as at the new GMH apartment building).

[whitt]

It's really OK to not know stuff, and to roleplay that out. In fact, it is a lot of fun and I highly recommend doing it, especially for veterans.

I get the frustration, feel it myself, but I also know the joy Gimf's talking about above.  The looks and comments I got as people watched one of my characters craft "cures" using spit and the palm of my hand.    Eventually he graduated to doing it on the bottomside of a clay mug.  Stay classy Ginka!

[whitt]

...recipes will now require a certain tool of a certain quality, rather than the current model which is that a tool type will give a bonus to the skill.

So will crafters be able to use like a "compare" command to determine which of scraper A and scraper B is the hide-scraper of higher quality?  And if so can weapon-using classes get a similar command to "compare" weapons for quality?

[Desertman]

I don't really care for the concept of "businesses that rent out access to their work areas" for independent crafters. At least not if the idea is, "You pay fifty coins and get access to a backroom with tools and workbenches.". That seems like a WoW/MMO concept.

"You pay 30 gold pieces to use the crafting bench and produce some cotton pants of high quality!".

Now, if Nenyuk opened some apartments that were specifically geared towards housing and catering to artisans and those apartments happened to contain higher and lower quality "workrooms", that would be pretty sweet. If those warehouses you rent for 5,000 coins a year came with a high-quality workroom designed to cater to the most picky of artisans, that would be awesome.

[bracken]

  Wonderful  to see work continuing with crafty things. Thank you!

Expect to see more vendors selling the lower quality type tools.

Do you meant permanently stocking them?
Actually I like the situation the way it is. Relying to some extent on PC's to provide these, either on request or by putting them in the shops. I think crafters, (and cure makers) need more real customers to give them a reason for being. Looking for tools is a good way to introduce your new PC.
Off peak Luirs "resident" and I still preferred to pester PC's for a chisel.
I wouldn't mind seeing a craftable fletching pick. (To digress, I have searched the web for one of these and never found one)

[Nyr]

I don't really care for the concept of "businesses that rent out access to their work areas" for independent crafters. At least not if the idea is, "You pay fifty coins and get access to a backroom with tools and workbenches.". That seems like a WoW/MMO concept.

"You pay 30 gold pieces to use the crafting bench and produce some cotton pants of high quality!".

Right now the only room rentals we have in the game do not work like that.  You either rent as part of the apartment system or you rent until you leave it.  If implemented, it would more than likely follow one of those two models.

Now, if Nenyuk opened some apartments that were specifically geared towards housing and catering to artisans and those apartments happened to contain higher and lower quality "workrooms", that would be pretty sweet. If those warehouses you rent for 5,000 coins a year came with a high-quality workroom designed to cater to the most picky of artisans, that would be awesome.

I think that is what Adhira was talking about with the (now-implemented?) GMH housing.

[BadSkeelz]

Isn't that new building in Allanak restricted to GMH members, though? It'd be a great resource to independent crafters, who would presumably pay a premium to get in, but I don't know if our apartment code can differentiate like that. You'd probably need a whole other building with similar amenities but higher rates, I'm guessing.

[Desertman]

I don't really care for the concept of "businesses that rent out access to their work areas" for independent crafters. At least not if the idea is, "You pay fifty coins and get access to a backroom with tools and workbenches.". That seems like a WoW/MMO concept.

"You pay 30 gold pieces to use the crafting bench and produce some cotton pants of high quality!".

Right now the only room rentals we have in the game do not work like that.  You either rent as part of the apartment system or you rent until you leave it.  If implemented, it would more than likely follow one of those two models.

Now, if Nenyuk opened some apartments that were specifically geared towards housing and catering to artisans and those apartments happened to contain higher and lower quality "workrooms", that would be pretty sweet. If those warehouses you rent for 5,000 coins a year came with a high-quality workroom designed to cater to the most picky of artisans, that would be awesome.

I think that is what Adhira was talking about with the (now-implemented?) GMH housing.

Awesome. 

[Rokal]

This is cool. Defintily going to be playing a lot of crafters on arm!

[wizturbo]

Isn't that new building in Allanak restricted to GMH members, though? It'd be a great resource to independent crafters, who would presumably pay a premium to get in, but I don't know if our apartment code can differentiate like that. You'd probably need a whole other building with similar amenities but higher rates, I'm guessing.

Currently isn't differentiated, non-GMH can't get in.  I'm not sure I disagree with that though...  it's in the spirit of the monopoly the GMH have.  You want to be an independent?  Expect to be much harder to make quality stuff, as you don't have the facilities that GMH employees have.   You can build your own tools workshop of course, but that's obviously much harder than just strolling into the one the GMH members get free.

[slvrmoontiger]

Does this mean remote locations such as Red Storm will have merchants that actually sell the tools needed? Last I was there they didn't have needle and thread and staff suggested that I just RP that I have it as it wasn't required to use.

[HavokBlue]

Was it taken into consideration how this will have an effect on crafters in isolated clans like the Sun Runners and Soh Lanah Kah?

[Delirium]

Toolmaking just turned into a useful skill!

Cool.

[X-D]

So, let me get this straight...there is to be recipes that require tools?

If so, with the current crafting system, how is this an improvement?

If I type craft bone right now, with say, knifemaking, it says you can make a knife, it does not tell me that I could also make several other types of knives with that bone if I had other items...so, I assume that the crafting system is unchanged, so now items that require tools will not show unless you have that tool? Oh, great....let us add yet another component to any recipe.

Currently, I would not consider this an improvement.

At least on a certain other rpi that requires tools for crafting, you can see everything you need ahead of time. And even then that system is rather annoying.

[valeria]

I too am confused by what the "when crafting" part means.  Does it mean that you will have to have the tool for it to display the recipe, or that you will have to have the tool to create the recipe when you try to do so?

[Armaddict]

This is really cool.

Recently, I was actually thinking about the concept of further degradation of things.  Things needing to be refilled.  So on.  I think it will help with the whole 'money isn't that valuable' thing that happens beyond a certain point.

I approve of this change.