Jinxed's thread of Feedback and Questions.

[Jinxed]

Greetings.

Today I stumbled upon this project and decided to try it out.
Before I start my feedback let me warn you that I am new to MUD. I found out about MUD a week ago and since then roaming the mudconnectors to find a suitable project for me.
Previously I was trying my luck on projects of my native language, but they are not able to provide the level of enterteinment I am after. This is my first english MUD.
It is easily that I missed some crucial information along my explorings and pondering so you are more than welcome to point out where I am wrong.

Point #1: the creation of new character and learning the basics.
While creation of the character is intuitive, it is impossible to gain any in-game information about what the hell are you doing.
On some other MUD projects it was possible to type out, for example, HELP THIEF during the character generation and study the class you are about to pick. In this case I needed to roam along the website to find the information I desired to learn.
Other than that I would like to note once again that character generation was intuitive and easy.

After my character was successfully accepted by staff (which happened less than in 2 hours) I  logged into the game and "pointed newbie" to receive some basic training about in-game interactions.
Is it just me or training consists only of five rooms?
In first room I was taught to look at tables, sit at tables, speak to others and read the message board. In same room I was told about some psionic abilities.
In second room I was teleported to market, which I had not a single clue how to use and could easily skip if I did not figure out how to use "HELP BUY" in time. On market I spent about half a hour attempting to wear the robe and manipulate the hood, but gave up and just stored it in a backpack. I bought there some items, without knowing how exactly they may be useful to my character and if I picked the correct equipment and proceeded to the last room of training (market area consists out of 3 rooms).
The last room was a room where I needed to pick a place to start my adventure.
In short - I am disappointed by training.

On my first MUD project I was taught to properly navigate around the world, interact with world, to use skills and gear, evaluate how dangerous various beings are, initiate and participate in combat, assist someone in combat, interact with containers, interact with merchants, bank, stables, loot and skin corpses and etc, etc.
Compared to that - you just gave me a stick and nudged into a dark cave to fight a dragon.
If I did not receive that training before trying this project, it would be just impossible for me to understand anything at all.

Point #2: the pace and prioritization of output.
The second thing I want to whine about is extremelly high pace of the game and lack of assist to prioritize the output provided by the game.
For example, there was a moment when my character was inside of the tavern with more than 7 PC patrons inside and someone attempted to interact with him.
In the same time there was ongoing conversation, trading, drinking and system messages happening.
I found myself in a rather dazzled condition, when I was starting to type my response, then stopped it to study over 10 new lines of text to see if I should modify my character's responce so it would respond the current situation inside, continue typing, stop typing in a few seconds to see that the character who originally adressed my character previously looses his patience and adresses the character again in slightly modified manner, start over typing the message, understand that I forgot what was said to my character, find the message somewhere in the middle of drinking roleplay, continue typing and, finally, see that another player gave up and just left the area.

It is nearly impossible to keep track of situation in conditions like that. And I doubt that there are that many people who actually can do it.
Myself, I feel confused and in need of rest to process the information even after more than 20 minutes from this situation.
My brain is simply not able to process that much information AND to translate it right off the bat that fast.

On other projects I tried out I was in similiar situations, but never had the same problem just because they used the colored fonts to indicate the nature of output.
My brain quickly learnt to recognise it and react accordingly to priroty of the message.
For example, the red font was used for combat and dangerous situations, light blue to indicate that someone spoke to my character, yellow to indicate another characters and interactable items, and white for anything not related to situations above.
In fast-paced situations I just paid attention to colours and investigated those messages of higher priority first.
If engaged in active discussion, for example, I completely ignored any white output and just concentrated on blue text.

I was told by helper that coloured output was suggested many times before, but, for some reason, was not implented.
Please, reconsider - it will make player's life (especially new one) much easier.

Point #3: general perception of project
Despite my disappointment regarding point #1 and #2, I enjoyed my experience I had on thos project and looking forward to return and continue my roleplay.
I enjoyed the roleplay I witnessed during my visit, my interactions with some other characters and I also noted that community is friendly towards the new players, which is actually very rare in any previous projects I visited. On one of them, for example, some of the old players placed the bounty on my head as soon as I mentioned that I am a new player and I was offered a choice - to waste my time and prove that I am actually a new player by meeting some of the older player in real life or to be endlessly killed by anyone, since they suspected that I am just some old player deceiving them to infiltrate some clan.

Currently all my questions had been answered by very kind helper in "live help", but I will constantly update this thread and it's head message if I will have any new questions.

[Barsook]

Welcome and dibs on his boots!

[Jinxed]

Welcome and dibs on his boots!

Are you a russian?

[Barsook]

Yes, but I live in the USA for 21 years now.  Are you, comrade?

[Jinxed]

Yes, and I live in Russia for 23 years now.
It is actually amusing that I stumble at russians literally everywhere across the internet - it is a very rare corner of internet where I find none.

[Barsook]

Ah, I see.  We do have a few Russians that play this game.

[RogueGunslinger]

Welcome to the game. This is a beautiful post that highlights some areas for improvement in the game. It so rare to get perspective from newbies, let alone newbies who are new to MUDs in general and I imagine it is very helpful to staff.



Ways to deal with lots of emotes/talking/interactions can be done by downloading a MUD client and playign the game form there. These clients can set up trigger to highlight specific words(like when ever someone says your name or adresses you).

In-game you can limit some spam from things like combat or room descriptions with the Brief toggle('brief room', 'brief exits'. 'Help Brief' may be useful.

I can assure you however that even without highlights or mud-clients you CAN keep up with a scroll. It just takes practice, and I'm sure for people who's first language isn't English it may take time. I only highlight the word You and Your. So they pop up in red color and I can pick them out of the spam easily when someone is interacting with me. You learn to tune out things that your PC isn't really involved in.

You can also deal with spammyness by adding a \n to the end of your prompt. 'Help Prompt' to get an idea of what I'm talking about here. It basically puts a space between your prompt and whatever echo comes next. Here's my prompt:

<%h/%H : %v/%V : %t/%T-%w-%s-%A-%o-%a>\n Which looks like this in game: <100/100 : 90/100 : 100/100-walking-standing-unarmed-sirihish-southern>


There are a lot of tools on the website that will help you out as a newbie. Have you checked out this? http://www.armageddon.org/intro/walkthrough.php

[Barsook]

Mudlet, MUSHCLient are two that can recommend for Windows, Linux, and Mac.

[Cutthroat]

Welcome to the game, and thanks for the detailed post.

I also struggled with point #2 when starting to play this game, and sometimes I still get hit with this problem during RPTs (Recommended Playing Times - basically big player gatherings) when there are 20-50 people, sometimes in the same room. Coloring helps, but unfortunately as you mentioned it isn't a feature of the game, and it's something players have to do client-side. Many players here use MUD Clients, like MUSHClient and Mudlet, and should be able to help you easily with setting up colors for yourself, if you're using one of those clients.

You're not wrong about point #1 either, but the commands are something you definitely will get used to with a bit of practice. The newbie area is meant to introduce people to the basics, but there is no good substitute for practicing while you play.

[Harmless]

Hey and welcome.

1.) Yeah, that's a good point. Char creation is kind of the same system it's been for years. Maybe over 10 years or so; there are some things lacking about the newbie rooms but in any case we want you to learn by joining us!. The character creation system probably references the MUD's website, though; http://www.armageddon.org. There you can access the help files by searching for the terms in the search bar.

2.) Yeah, this is something I struggle with a lot too. I hope at least your one-on-one interactions are something you can keep up with! In any case, practice makes perfect! People have definitely learned how to read English better playing this game, though, I can assure you of that. We hear about it all the time.

3.) Welcome to the game, and I am glad you enjoy it. There's going to be rough times ahead, but the game will give you some memories you would never have had otherwise. Spread the word! We LOVE it when people bring their friends in... and if you happen to have even one who'd want to try it out, that'd be great.

[valeria]

Thank you very much for your detailed post with suggestions. 

I just wanted to add, regarding point #1: in helper chat, you mentioned two areas that would have been helpful to you.  A room on "combat," and a room on "how to interact with items."  I wanted to put that here in case anyone was wondering what additional rooms you would have specifically found more helpful.

I'm glad to hear you enjoyed your experience and are looking to come back.  I was really overwhelmed at first too, and I've played plenty of MUDs.  The best thing to do is just jump in with both feet and roll with it, and it sounds like you're doing that.

[Lizzie]

Hello and welcome Jinxed. Zdravstvuj!

On your first note: Your previous experience was with what's known as "mudschool." Those are mostly for combat-oriented games, commonly known as "hack and slash" where the main focus is hunting and killing animals for experience and levels and loot.

Armageddon doesn't have experience points, or levels, and skinning a critter doesn't result in finding treasure boxes. So that whole part of mudschool wouldn't exist here, it wouldn't make much sense.

Since Armageddon is heavily roleplay focused, there's less emphasis on combat. There is definitely combat! But it's not necessary to play a well-developed character.

Everything you're looking for can be found on the help files on the website, and learning how to use combat really is best done while you're in the game interacting. The basics are "draw sword" then "kill gortok" (or whatever critter it is) and if you kill it, you can "skin" it. If it's beating you, you can try to "flee west" or "flee down" or "flee self" or just plain "flee." That's combat in a very compact summary. There's a lot more to it, but that's all you'd learn in a mudschool anyway.

For colors: The game "supports ansi color." That means that it will be in whatever color you set it to on your game client. Some of us prefer it that way. Because I might not like red for my highlights. Maybe I prefer blue. Or maybe I don't like highlights at all. Or maybe I like mine black, but bolded. So the game doesn't force any specific colors on me, and instead lets me set my own (or not set any if I don't want to).

If you need help with mushclient colors, feel free to ask, many of us use it as our client.

For the general pace: There are some games that are "turn-based" and move much more slowly. A single casual introduction of three people at a bar can take several real hours. In Armageddon, that same meeting can take ten minutes. Not being a native English-speaker will make it more difficult for you at first.

Eventually you get the rhythm of the pace, and learn what to notice and what to ignore, and what to just "skim over." That takes time even as a native English-speaker, so don't feel too uncomfortable if it takes you awhile longer.

[Jinxed]

Thank you for a warm welcoming.
Let us continue the discussion.

Hello and welcome Jinxed. Zdravstvuj!

On your first note: Your previous experience was with what's known as "mudschool." Those are mostly for combat-oriented games, commonly known as "hack and slash" where the main focus is hunting and killing animals for experience and levels and loot.

Armageddon doesn't have experience points, or levels, and skinning a critter doesn't result in finding treasure boxes. So that whole part of mudschool wouldn't exist here, it wouldn't make much sense.

That would actually make a sense since this particular MUD is listed #1 on mudconnecter and it to be expected that those rare people who are completelly new to MUD will try out this project first.
There is absolutely no harm in having a mudschool and advanced armageddon school - first one to teach the very basic interactions and second one to teach you exclusive features of the project.

Speaking of which, it may be a very good idea to add an "Emote" section in existing school. Emote system is advanced indeed and needs at least some practice to understand how it works, I was not really comfortable experimenting right in the tavern.
It meant that I needed to study the HELP EMOTE, other character's actions and form the syntax of command correctly both in mechanically and roleplaywy-wise at the same time.
A peacefull and still room where syntax in explained carefully and where you are given a couple tasks to practice it would be really nice.

learning how to use combat really is best done while you're in the game interacting.

I have to disagree with that. I, myself, feel under pressure when acting on field where any of my actions may yield consequences.
And I would be really disapointed to suffer consequences just because I failed to figure out fast enough how to do something mechanically.
For example, I never knew about "DRAW SWORD" command. And it would be a shame to be killed while figuring out how to arm yourself.
And I doubt that agressive NPC (or some PC's) will be that kind to explain it to me during combat.

For colors: The game "supports ansi color." That means that it will be in whatever color you set it to on your game client. Some of us prefer it that way. Because I might not like red for my highlights. Maybe I prefer blue. Or maybe I don't like highlights at all. Or maybe I like mine black, but bolded. So the game doesn't force any specific colors on me, and instead lets me set my own (or not set any if I don't want to).

Previously I visited a project which featured the color system, as I mentioned previously.
I recall it allowing the player to customise the coloring - I could turn on/off coloring in combat, conversation, loot, status bar. As well as I could switch between the full set of colors and only high priority ones. Or even just turn them all off.
I do not remember if it allowed me to change the colors to my desirable ones, though, but I do believe that this is possible as well.

It is good that people invented ways to implent it themselves in any fashion they desire, but new players are not known for patience - they see something new and exiting in front of them. And everything new and exiting needs to be investigated as soon as possible - this is our human nature based on survivval instinct. And it suddenly becomes much less exiting and interesting if player, after opening the shiny box, suddenly discovers "assemble yourself".



In any case, I am going to study the available clients now and get exploring the game world once again.

[Harmless]

I definitely agree that an integrated color system is a good thing potentially to add. There is definitely a contingent of us at this point who have had our own custom color highlights for so long we'd never bother to turn it on, but maybe someday it can be implemented for some of the bare bones things that people new to the game would definitely like highlighted -- damage messages, for example, or other important (and common) messages pertaining to the survival of your PC, but not much more than that...

[solera]

Emote practice.  Most of us, I'd say, learnt to emote by practising alone in a quiet place.
For example

Code Select Expand

em trails ^me fingers along the spiralling lines carved into ~bench .
The  pale scrawny youth trails his fingers along the spiralling lines carved into an ornate stone bench.

[Jinxed]

I started to use MUSH client. It was fairly easy to configure the color for "you" and "your", yet it is not as useful as I hoped - it simply highlights any mentionings of those words without prioritizing them by the type of actions.
Yet I feel that it is possible to create a complex system of colored words, it is just not the same as I experienced on other project and not as comfortable to use.

I also have a question about MUSH client - it appears that this particular client is not using the whole output window.
As demonstrated on the following screenshot (no IC sensitive information is present), MUSH suddenly breaks the line in the middle of the screen and transfers it to the next line.
I would like it to break the line only at the proper end of the window on the right - how can I do that?

[Kol]

Hey there, and welcome!

Firstly, it's best not to compare this game to other MUD's or MUSH's, all the staff, coders, helpers and admin in this game are unpaid, and do what they do out of love for the game, as opposed to what I suspect may have been a IRE MUD, where the coders and staff get paid for what they do, and so can dedicate a lot more time to it (The newbie training area you visited was put in early this year if I remember).

Secondly, in regards to MUSHclient, there is no way I know of to extend the linebreaks to a longer length, however, it does make it easier to use a browser at the same time, for quickly browsing help-files as you need them on the website (useful for social situations where the screens moving at a pace that's too fast for you.)

This should add some colour to your world if it helps and was written by one of our own players.

Learning to play a MUD from scratch is hard, this one is harder still if you've never played a MUD before in your life, OOC interactions are discouraged, unlike other MUD's out there, and most of the information you need, you'll have to find yourself. Armageddon is a steep learning curve, but once you manage to get up the slope, it's worthwhile. I still opt to play this over my XBOX and steam games most days.

[valeria]

I think the comparisons in this case are okay.  They aren't as much "wow let me advertise this other place" as they are "I've found these features at other places helpful, maybe they would be helpful here."

I use MUSHclient.  You can change the linewrap settings, but it will not change the MUD's output.  The MUD outputs in strings of 80 characters.

Learning to play a MUD from scratch is pretty hard.  After a while, it becomes the Matrix/Dwarf Fortress "I don't even see the characters anymore" but that takes time.  I think maybe the emote part of the school could be as easy as having a suggestion in the newbie tavern (if there isn't one there already) about "help emote" and an encouragement to practice emoting.  I think that would have been a good place for you to practice.

I don't think that having a default color set for specific messages would be bad, especially if it either defaulted to off or you could easily turn it off (as happy as I am that Arm doesn't rape your cornea with color).  Some people just think better in color.  I'm just not sure how easy it would be to implement.

Anyway, thanks again for the feedback!  Keep the ideas coming.

[slvrmoontiger]

Welcome to Armageddon.

I have to agree with most of your points in some cases. As already mentioned, for some characters combat isn't a position they find themselves in. For some guilds: Merchants for instance they would rather stay out of combat situations than to get into them. Armageddon is first and always about role playing. No levels, no experience points, no buying points to train with. It's just not what it's about. I love the way skills progress on Armageddon and it's the best role playing MUD there is, hands down. In my MANY years of playing Armageddon I have yet to find a MUD that people actually RP as much as they do on Armageddon. Oh, other MUDs claim to have RP but most of them are experience based and when you turn a RP game into an experience based game it boils down more to it being Hack & Slash.

I agree completely with the level of spam scrolling on your screen at times and how difficult it is to digest it. I said difficult (it's not entirely impossible, some cases are more impossible than others RPTs (Recommended Player Times) and HRPTs (Highly Recommended Player Times) can be those times). I would encourage you in such situations to pick out just one or two people that are interacting with your character to focus on in situations like that, or even in the one you highlighted. I believe the reason the other player left was probably because he/she wasn't getting any responses from you. Sometimes its better to respond with what you were first going to respond with. If the situation changes continue on the change. But respond. At first it's best not to do lengthy tells and emotes. "Hello, how are you?" for instance could be a quick way to show another character/player that you did get their tell/emote and you are at the keyboard and responsive. Carry on the conversation from there. No one is expecting everyone to be a quick reader or be a super typer. However, some response is appreciated no matter how little or if it doesn't completely address everything that character said to your character immediately. There's plenty of time for that. Continue to keep tabs on the other people around your character, but if they aren't directly communicating with your character it's best to focus on those who are.

Good luck. Helper chat is awesome, even being an Armageddon Veteran (I've played since the mid to late 1990's) I still use it from time to time. Not everyone knows everything about the game, but as time goes on your learn quickly and you'll become used to and very adept at responding and playing.

[lordcooper]

If you're looking to learn the basics of combat in a safe-ish environment, I'd highly recommend joining our resident group of filthy mercenaries, the T'zai Byn.

[Harmless]

if you'd like to find monsters that are fairly easily found and killed, there's one well-known example of such a critter called a "gurth," which is basically a tortoise. They can be found in the scrublands to the north, near where the city of Tuluk is. To the south, the closest equivalent is a jozhal, which is a small reptilian humanoid -- however, they are excellent at hiding (and fleeing) and make for hard prey because of that.

[Fujikoma]

I learned to use all the emote symbols properly from mudsex.

Yes, muds can be difficult to keep up with at first. I've been playying muds off and on for well over ten years now, Arm only about one year, and I have to say, I'd never played an RP based mud before, nor did I think an RP based mud would appeal to me, nor did I even think I was -capable- of playing an RP based mud. I guess I'm just lucky someone signed into another game to vent about the death of their PC, which was what drew my attention.

Anyway, hang in there. I'd definitely recommend playing in a clan for your first dozen PCs at least, maybe just half a dozen, depending on how quickly you pick up what you need to. The learning curve is steep, and a good teacher can help even the odds a lot with future characters, these will most likely be found in clans, although, there are other places they can be located... even after you learn what you need to, clans are fun to play in and much less hazardous than going out on your own, well, usually. Some leaders can be more hazardous than a grouchy mekillot, so, ymmv, and it can be a good thing or a bad thing, depending on what you want out of the experience.

[Barzalene]

I started to use MUSH client. It was fairly easy to configure the color for "you" and "your", yet it is not as useful as I hoped - it simply highlights any mentionings of those words without prioritizing them by the type of actions.
Yet I feel that it is possible to create a complex system of colored words, it is just not the same as I experienced on other project and not as comfortable to use.

I also have a question about MUSH client - it appears that this particular client is not using the whole output window.
As demonstrated on the following screenshot (no IC sensitive information is present), MUSH suddenly breaks the line in the middle of the screen and transfers it to the next line.
I would like it to break the line only at the proper end of the window on the right - how can I do that?

Welcome Jinxed,
Good to have you, and I hope you enjoy.
You make a lot of good points, and now that we have a newbie area to start in, I wouldn't be surprised if some of your ideas were put to use. That might not happen overnight as someone would have to take the project on, think about it, code it, test it, have it approved etc. But it could definitely happen.

With regards to the triggers a lot of people use mushclient (I use cmud) and I bet many of them would be happy to share their set up with you. People have set their clients us to do all sorts of things. Some you'll like and some you won't and eventually you'll likely make your own adjustments.

Also, (incase you worried)  it's absolutely possible to learn the emote system while your pc is fully dressed and upright.

[slvrmoontiger]

I learned to use all the emote symbols properly from mudsex.

LOL. Mudsex does force you to learn how to become quite creative with emotes, especially on which symbol to use in which instance. It can get confusing with all the different symbols to put before names or keywords. But it becomes second nature after a while. When I first started playing again after a 5 year break I printed off the chart in the help files of the symbols for emotes and I taped it right above my computer on the wall so I always saw it while playing. It only stayed there for a few months and then it became second nature. People adapt and learn and memorize stuff.

[Fujikoma]

I learned to use all the emote symbols properly from mudsex.

LOL. Mudsex does force you to learn how to become quite creative with emotes, especially on which symbol to use in which instance. It can get confusing with all the different symbols to put before names or keywords. But it becomes second nature after a while. When I first started playing again after a 5 year break I printed off the chart in the help files of the symbols for emotes and I taped it right above my computer on the wall so I always saw it while playing. It only stayed there for a few months and then it became second nature. People adapt and learn and memorize stuff.

After a while the buffer limit starts to become second nature too, so you don't get chopped emotes.

[valeria]

I too did the emote thing, except I wrote them all on a sticky note (because my brain holds on to things so much better when I write them down).  I still only use + and = so rarely that I have to look them up every time though.  That is very good advice.

As far as the buffer limit, I've never really managed to catch on to that. 

[Barsook]

Or you can have Notepad open with the table and with other notes that you need.  Mudlet has one built in.

[slvrmoontiger]

I learned to use all the emote symbols properly from mudsex.

LOL. Mudsex does force you to learn how to become quite creative with emotes, especially on which symbol to use in which instance. It can get confusing with all the different symbols to put before names or keywords. But it becomes second nature after a while. When I first started playing again after a 5 year break I printed off the chart in the help files of the symbols for emotes and I taped it right above my computer on the wall so I always saw it while playing. It only stayed there for a few months and then it became second nature. People adapt and learn and memorize stuff.

After a while the buffer limit starts to become second nature too, so you don't get chopped emotes.

Especially the case for mudsex. Buffer limit really restricts you.

[Eilwen]

I didn't even know the + and = sign existed in our emote code and I've never fully understood tagging yourself. Is that for people who genderbend a lot and don't want to slip, or does it actually effect something?

[valeria]

I got into the habit of tagging myself when I was playing a male character.  I do sometimes just throw "her" and "herself" and things into my emotes, because really who cares but me (and it displays all wonky when you do tag yourself).  But in that instance I didn't want to screw it up.

[QuillDipper]

I usually have no issue with playing the opposite gender and not tagging.

Does tagging cause your pronouns to become vague during "someone" emotes? (I.e. if you're knocked out, will you see "someone drives -their- foot into your side" or "someone drives -her- foot into your side")

[Delirium]

No, but I wish it did.

[Fujikoma]

I always put my PC's name in the prompt, lest I forget and think I'm playying a previous PC. (TIP: -NEVER- do this)

[senseofeven]

This is how my Armageddon colors is set up - hope it helps you.

Room titles plus their exits in striking gold so I know where the shit I am.
Any kind of speech is in that bright blue so I know it's people talking.
Prompt is green when I'm OK but turns red then I'm not.

And loads more of secret fun stuff, too!



If you're asking about why the lines break it's because in your settings you must've had WORDWRAP on. So just uncheck it or click AUTO WORDWRAP or something similar and it should break at where your client is expanded. Sorry I'm not very used to MUSHclient!

Mine's set to a wrap of ~90, cause I like it half like that.

[Barzalene]

Cute cat included in mushclient package?

[senseofeven]

Cute cat included in mushclient package?

I'm using Zmud and you're going to have to find your own cute cat! 

[Case]

Cute cat included in mushclient package?

I'm using Zmud and you're going to have to find your own cute cat! 

gimme cute cat

[FantasyWriter]

gimme cute cat

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cbP2N1BQdYc

[Barsook]

Hey OP!  Are you still playing?  How is it?

[Jinxed]

I am still playing. I decided that live chat sessions with helpers are more comfortable for me than forums and torture those poor folks with hours-long talks.
I would like to note that pickpocket and burglar are not suitable guilds for new players - their lifespan tends to be extremelly short for those, who does not know how and where to train their skills appropriatly.

[RogueGunslinger]

Night-time, with no soldier pc's in nearby rooms, and you'll be as safe as can be practicing those skills.

[Beethoven]

My first PC was guild_pickpocket. He just didn't use the skills!

[Harmless]

warrior and ranger are two good fallback guilds if you're looking for something non-crime oriented. If you want to keep some of the crime factor, try assassin, but note that assassins are not good pickpockets. (They do eventually gain the ability to pick locks, though, so burglary could be a future vocation).

[Jinxed]

I am through two characters already. Both died a gruesome and long death.
Which is interesting, the second character survived only for two hours - apparently my ability to survive is regressing at alarming rates.

Looking back, I may note that possible reason is my timezone. If I decide to play at a daytime, usually I witness 2-10 players, which leaves me nothing much to do but go exploring.
Both characters died during going somewhere where they are not really supposed to be.

[valeria]

You'll get better at surviving after a while.  Or maybe not.  But you will probably never stop dying stupid or sudden deaths.  It's the nature of the game. 

[solera]

If you have an Allanaki PC and you see Bynners around in your time zone, maybe you should join the Byn. Then die in uniform.

[path]

The Byn is really super fun. I imagine sometimes new players don't want to go in the New Player clan which is sort've how it can be presented, so I want to assure you that old players love this clan best and there are almost always plenty of experienced players here. It's a wonderful place for learning how to train as well as how to roleplay and get to see some of the world.

I love the Byn.

[Jinxed]

Third character is dead. His death was most fun, I am still wondering what the hell actually happened there.
I also would like to note that combat is too damn fast-paces for a roleplay project. It is nearly impossible to keep track fo actions and roleplay accordingly even with brief combat turned on.

In any case, one of my previous characters used to be a member of Byn. Is it acceptable to re-join the faction one of your previous character used to be a member of?
I do recall that some projects have a very strict policies on that matter - what is the situation about it here?

[Fujikoma]

Third character is dead. His death was most fun, I am still wondering what the hell actually happened there.
I also would like to note that combat is too damn fast-paces for a roleplay project. It is nearly impossible to keep track fo actions and roleplay accordingly even with brief combat turned on.

In any case, one of my previous characters used to be a member of Byn. Is it acceptable to re-join the faction one of your previous character used to be a member of?
I do recall that some projects have a very strict policies on that matter - what is the situation about it here?

I think it's not advised.

I do anyway sometimes. I think the Byn is one of those you can get some leeway in. I could be wrong, but yeah, I had like four or five PCs in a row join the Byn, actually, likely more than that.

EDIT: It can become especially difficult with some non-human PCs with few clan choices, and aggressive IC recruitment pushes, along with the OOC anti-indie sentiment (which being an independent is likely not a great choice for a newer PC, but it works for some).

[Rahnevyn]

It's okay to rejoin a clan you had a previous character in. Generally it's advised to at least wait one or two characters before rejoining - if we see you doing back to back to back to back stints in the same clan or area of the game with each successive PC, we'll probably say something to you.

As a note, though, please try not to post about your recent deaths on the GDB. If anyone knows who you're playing and reads the post before knowing you died in game, it spoils things for them and can ruin plots. Thanks.

[BadSkeelz]

Combat is definitely very fast. I very much recommend hunting and fighting with allies so you can watch each others back. Preferably they'll be watching yours while you learn the ropes. When you're in a fight, keep an eye on your own HP bar first and foremost. Be ready to flee when it gets low.

[sleepyhead]

I tend to play in the same area of the game just because there is one particular area where I seem to actually have fun. Most other areas tend to result in my taking long "breaks" and storage. :\ I'm sure this speaks negatively about me, but it's just the way it is. I do try to shake things up from time to time, but I never have the great experiences elsewhere that I have in [the area in question.]

[RogueGunslinger]

There was a point there where I played in the Byn every other character or so. And I almost exclusively play from Allanak.

Like Sleepyhead I know where I have the most fun, and what sort of roles I have the most fun in.

[Jinxed]

The warning about posting recent deaths on forums is noted.
Assisting someone's metagame was not in my intentions.

Meanwhile, I got a character concept which requires a collective effort of two players.
Where would be a best place on forum to team up with another player?

[Kalai]

If you have a family role idea, there is information under Player Announcements in this thread, and once approved Player Announcements is the forum where you'd be recruiting:
Guidelines for Recruiting

Aside from family concepts, you are expected to find most partnerships in-game. Good luck. 

[Fujikoma]

The warning about posting recent deaths on forums is noted.
Assisting someone's metagame was not in my intentions.

Meanwhile, I got a character concept which requires a collective effort of two players.
Where would be a best place on forum to team up with another player?

Everyone requires some sort of collective effort, some classes more than others... ok, I guess -besides- ranger with crafty skills, and even they will find benefit and fulfillment from cooperation (especially as a newer player). I find a lot of fun can be had forging the alliances and hoping for the best. A lot of tavern sitting can be involved, and a lot of doubting, worry, and possibly inevitable betrayal can be involved. A lot of the not knowing is fun, and makes you feel like you really accomplished something when you finally -do- build some lasting friendships and partnerships that pay off. In the meantime, errors and failures are their own sort of fun, and also educational, perhaps providing lasting memories you'll look back and laugh at about in a year or three, but at the time leave you screaming at the login screen before eventually cooking up another character concept, submitting, crossing your fingers and playing the waiting game again.

[Jinxed]

I have no problem with my characters dying or making friends with my characters, even if they are anti-social unpleasant ones.
Roleplaying a family is exactly what I was thinking about.

[Harmless]

you can definitely look into doing a family role call. This is when you make a request to the staff with the website (armageddon.org) with these things:

a.) the concept for the family, the history and background of it, where they will live and where the characters will start from,
b.) the approximate (or exact) age of each family member,
c.) (optional) the appearance and gender of each family member
d.) the restrictions to what roles can be chosen from in the family, if any.

After the staff approve your family, they will reply to your request with a special number that you hold onto. Then, you make a post in the "Player Announcements" as a new thread with the subject "Family role call: etcetc."

You invite people in your family role call thread to send you their requests to join. I suggest you look through that forum and look at old family role calls to get an idea of how that looks. People will message you privately on the GDB and you will eventually select who you want in your family. Then, you send them the number you received from the imms, and then they make the character and put that number at the first line of their character's background, during character generation, like this:

Please enter the background for your character. Terminate on an empty line with ~.
0=========10======20=========30=======40=====50=======60
FAMILY ROLE REQUEST # 666348
So and so was born in wherever-town as the third sibling in a family of four. Their parents...
...(the player of your sibling will make up the rest partly based on what you tell them,
plus their own added details.)

My personal advice: Continue to roll up solo characters while you're still so new to the game. It's very easy to jump right into interesting situations as a solo player, and if you look for busy areas and taverns, then you are more likely to find people to group up with. Family role calls are very difficult, and most of the time I see people who have gotten more grounding in the setting trying them. But, you're welcome to try, just make sure you understand that A.) Family members don't have an obligation to play with you, at the same time as you, etc, and B.) Family members are roleplaying a role as they think their role should be played, which may lead to unpredictable, undesirable consequences for your PC.

Good luck and I'm glad you're still here trying to figure things out. Rejoin the Byn! It's always an option.

[Jinxed]

I noted that helpers are not allowed to provide skillsets of guilds.
What is the reason?

[Kol]

It's not to snub you, it's more to keep the game, and how we play it, in line with what it should be.

A guild is not the be all and end all, an assassin, for example, can be a perfectly acceptable Hunter, if that's what you want him to be. Your merchant too, sure, they won't be the greatest hunters in the known, but you chose to play them that way.

As you gain Karma, and access to more restricted Guilds, the skills and abilities of these Guilds become less widely known. This is, in part, to keep the IC mystery around these guilds powers alive, and in part, to allow you to discover them for yourself.

Although if you read a guilds description, you can usually get an idea of what they're capable of, and will become capable of.

Rangers

(Guilds)

A ranger possesses two primary abilities: to aptly find their way even in storm or darkness, and to stalk and kill prey (for food). Because of the emphasis on these two things, rangers are often greatly sought after as companions in the desert.

Ranger skills involve hunting persons or animals, exceptional powers of observation, a strong aptitude for archery, and some moderate skill with weapons and strategic retreat. Exceptional rangers are able to move silently and remain unseen in the wilderness, detect sounds from far away, work with poisons, and parry enemy blows. Rangers are also often able to rescue friends from deadly situations, bandage serious wounds, and have a well-known rapport with animals, and can ride beasts of burden from the beginning.

While apparently an astonishing array of abilities, rangers are far poorer at combat than warriors, and their skills with poisons and healing powers are actually quite modest.

Rangers are usually the second easiest persons to employ, next to warriors. Any traveller would be a fool to neglect to take a ranger along as a guide, and good rangers can make large sums of money in this profession. In addition, rangers are excellent scouts and spies, able to eavesdrop without being noticed. If nothing else, rangers are superior hunters and can typically feed themselves in such places as the Grey Forest (q.v.), and can bring back skins of animals to sell

So, from reading this, we can pretty much clearly tell that Rangers get two key skills. Direction Sense, the ability to find ones way in a storm or darkness, and Hunt, the ability to track animals/people (not all hunting is the beastie kind!)

We can also see that they're more capable from the offset with a bow than other guilds, and have a small boost to Flee, and is obviously an exploration/combat orientated guild.

I've bolded the most relevant part here.

Exceptional Rangers.....this pretty much means, with enough time played, and focus in training (don't forget to RP it!) That a ranger may one day, be able to work with poison, this is what's called a branched skill. Bear in mind, however, it takes a long time, and most usually never manage it.

If you read each guild's description, you can pretty much guess their skillset without much difficulty. The Higher the Karma requirement, the more vauge and less information given. This is because, in Zalanthas, your average Joe wouldn't know too much about what abilities that sinister gicker has, he could, for all you know, be able to kill with a look, and turn beautiful flowers into raging kryl.

Hope this helps!

[Jinxed]

To prevent unnecessary metagame, understood.
Yet it may be quite usefull to publish the skills for three of _highly recommended_ newbie classes, which are hunter, merchant and the warrior.
I doubt that those three can do anything that is not expected from them.

[Kol]

Truthfully, I'm sure there are people who agree with you.

However, I'll try and explain the way I look at it in a way you might understand. (I make no promises, I'm weird, and my thought processes are convoluted beyond all reasoning to most)

I used to have a teacher, Mr Godber. He taught me science for the last 4 years of my school life, and was the best teacher I've ever had in my life, bar none. This is not because he used to own a rivet-bolted, ex-military Land-Rover Discovery (No, not the Tomb raider version, the pre 2000 one) Or because he was one of the few people in my teenage years who encouraged and supported my choice of music (Metal and rock) Or because he used to end each lesson with a Joe Cartoon (Frog in blender, anyone?)

It's because he was an amazing educator. Where other teachers would drone on (including our other science teachers) In an endless monologue of facts, dates, chemical compounds, actions, reactions, verbs and verses, Mr Godber would give us a question, then provide us with the tools (not always physical tools) to discover the answer for ourselves. He wouldn't laugh, yell or shout if we go the answer wrong, he'd ask how we got to that answer, then explain the parts we got right, and ask us to try again, and again, and again. Until we got it right.

He taught science, a subject I sucked miserably at, despite his best efforts. Yet, whenever I look back, I always feel I achieved more in his lessons because I learnt those things for myself, rather than being given the answers, than any other lesson I took in school, college, or any educational course I've been on since.

One of the many, many reasons I love playing Arm is because every time I learn something new, whether it's a new location, bit of lore, or a skill for a guild I haven't known about before, it's because I managed to learn that for myself, rather than have it given to me.

I'd like to think that's part of the reason why staff don't give solid skillsets, and only hint at what skills a guild gets.

[tiptoe]

Reading the descriptions of the guilds is close to getting a list.

Assassins, for example (bolding for emphasis):

Assassins are expert killers, skilled in dealing swift and deadly blows to their victims. Among the other talents of an assassin, he/she can move without being heard, hide easily in the shadows, and employ a variety of thrown darts and small sharp weapons in order to strike at his/her enemies from a distance.

Highly skilled assassins tend to become more akin to warriors late in their careers. Having mastered the basic skills, an assassin will often begin to learn a mastery of parrying enemy attacks, as well as how to more easily get out of combat. The excellent use of poisons also becomes available, as does the ability to climb sheer walls. Also late in their careers, assassins can learn how to effectively knock out an opponent from behind with a sharp blow to the head and take them elsewhere for committing their dirty work.

Assassins are often the simplest people to employ, for various warring factions usually have a desire to see their enemies slain quietly and simply, with minimal risk to themselves. For this reason, skilled assassins are almost never without work.

Aside from all of their varied talents, the most important aspect which assassins must strive to develop is their reputation. No other single characteristic of an assassin will be more amenable to finding employment than an excellent reputation for performing jobs cleanly and efficiently, and for protecting the identities of those who hire him/her.

Jobs which require espionage are also well suited to assassins, though they are perhaps not the very best at this task.

They even specify what skills you gain (branch).

...and I just realized that Kol did this just a little above me, oops!

[RogueGunslinger]

I know I'm late to this thread, but I just wanted to chime in that all keeping lists muddled and vague does is benefit the veteran players who know it all already, while keeping the new players in the dark about what sort of character they can create. Limiting their ability to tailor a character more directly to their background. I mean, if we're going to put the skills all in the help-files with vague wording anyways, why not just make a list?

I'm probably fairly alone in this thinking though.

For instance, how many people know which guilds get master cooking? I just saw that question in another newbie thread of someone wanting to make a chef character.

[Saellyn]

Probably the same guild that masters every other crafting skill in the game.

[RogueGunslinger]

Probably the same guild that masters every other crafting skill in the game.

"Probably" is just the level of vague that confuses newbies. As reasonable as it sounds to you, already knowing it, I played this game for about five years before realizing it. I had always just assumed Rangers got it. And clearly I'm not the only one. So, why are we being "somewhat" vague about skills? I think clarity is a good thing in this instance.

I remember having a lot of frustration as a noob ending up with a cool character concept and the skills didn't jive with it.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

Honestly, the probably and other vague responses to queries of certain sorts hurts this game more than it helps it, to me.

Questions about skills, classes, and other OOC machinations used to support IC play should be answered with facts. If a Newb asks if activity x helps skill y, I should be able to say yes, not find out IC. If he asks if skill is something that comes with class, likewise, I should be able to just say yes. If he asks if Clan Y is better than Clan Z, I should be able to say ... Find Out IC.

Mechanics questions being hazed over irritates me, despite the fact that I do agree to uphold that standard because I'm a helper. I think we say Find out IC about all sorts of things we should never say that about. Find out IC should be about IC secrets, IC plots, IC stuff.

Not code.

[Delirium]

Honestly, the probably and other vague responses to queries of certain sorts hurts this game more than it helps it, to me.

Questions about skills, classes, and other OOC machinations used to support IC play should be answered with facts. If a Newb asks if activity x helps skill y, I should be able to say yes, not find out IC. If he asks if skill is something that comes with class, likewise, I should be able to just say yes. If he asks if Clan Y is better than Clan Z, I should be able to say ... Find Out IC.

Mechanics questions being hazed over irritates me, despite the fact that I do agree to uphold that standard because I'm a helper. I think we say Find out IC about all sorts of things we should never say that about. Find out IC should be about IC secrets, IC plots, IC stuff.

Not code.

I agree completely.

[wizturbo]

Mechanics questions being hazed over irritates me, despite the fact that I do agree to uphold that standard because I'm a helper. I think we say Find out IC about all sorts of things we should never say that about. Find out IC should be about IC secrets, IC plots, IC stuff.

Not code.

Some code is IC secrets, but in general I agree with you.  If it's code related to the starting classes, especially their starting skills, I don't see why we need to be so cagey about sharing information.  It just makes the already steep learning curve that much steeper.

Code related to karma classes, races, or roles I'd say find out IC.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

Yeh wiz. I agree about karma class sorta stuff.

[nauta]

As a newb, I enjoy not knowing what skills guilds/subguilds offer (beyond the vague), as well as which skills in mine will branch, and when, and how.  Mostly it's about mystery: oh, neat, let's see what happens if I play an X.  Also, I can't guild sniff worth a crap.  Even if I were to progress beyond newb, I'd have to put in some effort to guild sniff / remember the skill listings, which I doubt I would, so the mystery will remain.

There -are- opaque aspects to the game which are infuriating, e.g., the various ways of picking plants, hitching a second mount, etc., but hiding skills doesn't strike me as one of them.

[WanderingOoze]

As a newb, I enjoy not knowing what skills guilds/subguilds offer (beyond the vague), as well as which skills in mine will branch, and when, and how.  Mostly it's about mystery: oh, neat, let's see what happens if I play an X.  Also, I can't guild sniff worth a crap.  Even if I were to progress beyond newb, I'd have to put in some effort to guild sniff / remember the skill listings, which I doubt I would, so the mystery will remain.

There -are- opaque aspects to the game which are infuriating, e.g., the various ways of picking plants, hitching a second mount, etc., but hiding skills doesn't strike me as one of them.

As A Fellow Newb, I agree with this 100%.

[Jinxed]

How to mechanically dispose of humanoid corpse?

[whitt]

How to mechanically dispose of humanoid corpse?

Most commonly potential options are:
- Wait for a reboot
- Use the wish command to ask staff to remove the corpse after appropriate RP

Only the last is reliable. 

[Jihelu]

I recommend eating corpses as burying them in the sands would have to be quite deep.

Can scrabs/wildlife eat humanoid corpses?
I know they can eat other wildlife.

[650Booger]

a good bonfire will destroy it, I think...

[solera]

Corpses "vanish" too quickly in this game, I think.

[manipura]

How to mechanically dispose of humanoid corpse?

Most commonly potential options are:
- Wait for a reboot
- Use the wish command to ask staff to remove the corpse after appropriate RP

Only the last is reliable.

I think if you're strong enough, you can bury a corpse?  I feel like one of my PCs buried a corpse with a half-giant before and her companion was able to do the lifting with no trouble.
Depending on the RP surrounding the disposal, you may have to get a little creative with the burying.

[Jinxed]

Spamminess of combat and traveling with more experienced player is harder to survive than I remember.
How to manage the spam?

[RogueGunslinger]

Brief room

Brief exits

Brief combat

And practice. Also colors.

[Jinxed]

Mush does that not quite amusing thing about playing windows error sound when something croaks nearby.
I fail to find where to turn that off.

[Akariel]

Go into the settings on Mushclient, go to Appearance>Output, the very first option tells the client to not do beeps if you don't want it to. You can also select a new sound that happens when the game beeps.

[Jinxed]

So, I've abandoned Armageddon being unsatisfied with how combat works and perceived in community.
But is a good idea to pop-in once in a while with a question:
Did combat mechanics or rules change in last six months?

[Hauwke]

Combat will likely never change, and if it does, it will be an absolutely enormous task to change given that the game has used the same system, as far as I know, since its creation.

Colors were added to the game, im unsure if you knew that or not.

And the current view on talking about skills is relatively relaxed, most of the subdguilds now specifically spell out what you get and to what levels now.

[mansa]

The threaten skill was introduced, which will trigger the start of combat during certain situations.

[Riev]

So, I've abandoned Armageddon being unsatisfied with how combat works and perceived in community.
But is a good idea to pop-in once in a while with a question:
Did combat mechanics or rules change in last six months?

There are often tweaks that go in, unpublished, to the combat system. However, Arm's system will likely always be the round-based coded skill-vs-skill that we have currently. While things have been added and moved around, that has been the base of how its worked for 20+ years, with only minor changes like "Parry is stronger" or "Reels have less lockout" or "more than 5 people cannot attack one sole humanoid target"

[Jinxed]

The threaten skill was introduced, which will trigger the start of combat during certain situations.

That is a step in a direction that I dont like, frankly.
Feels like taking away from roleplay into favour of mechanics.

And that is precisely what pushed me away - in most encounters kill <target> is acceptable substitute to roleplaying it out. Even in perfectably controlled enviroment.
Once even had an encounter when outcome was more than obvious - single combatant versus eight, even in that situation it required some OOC communication for a tasty bit of descriptive roleplay instead of mechanic combat.

[Molten Heart]

.

[Namino]

The threaten skill was introduced, which will trigger the start of combat during certain situations.

That is a step in a direction that I dont like, frankly.
Feels like taking away from roleplay into favour of mechanics.

To add to Molten, threaten does precisely the opposite of what you think it does. You approach merchant. You threaten merchant. You roleplay with merchant, now safe knowing if THEY choose to suddenly start spamming code, you'll automatically get to intervene. It's designed so that people who want to get into fights can still emote and roleplay without risking their victims simply spam walking away while they do so. The things that trigger threaten to attack are draw, movement, ect.

[LucildaHunta]

I think the idea behind threaten was due to the fact that before the implementation of the command people could and often would speedwalk away from your menacing rp before you finished typing it out. So nobody ever got to see how your obsidian bladed axe glinted, menacingly in the light. By the time you hit enter the person had speed walked to safety and possibly quit out by then.

So that actually is a tool to facilitate role play.

[LucildaHunta]

And that is precisely what pushed me away - in most encounters kill <target> is acceptable substitute to roleplaying it out. Even in perfectably controlled enviroment.
Once even had an encounter when outcome was more than obvious - single combatant versus eight, even in that situation it required some OOC communication for a tasty bit of descriptive roleplay instead of mechanic combat.

Also you should be aware there are some Npcs that have some scripts that make them appear almost as real as a player or in some cases more real than some players. Kudos to whoever scripted them! And yes they absolutely will kill you. As far as eight people jumping you. I suppose the official line would go something like "Well they might have used think or feel, which you aren't privy to, which means they were role playing blah...blah... blah, maybe they were introverted assassins...blah-blah...true to their character. My roleplay is great!"

While that might be true, another truth is you may not have been as squishy as you thought and the surest, fastest way to be sure you actually ended up dead before you could run away was to vastly outnumber you.

[Cabooze]

The threaten skill was introduced, which will trigger the start of combat during certain situations.

That is a step in a direction that I dont like, frankly.
Feels like taking away from roleplay into favour of mechanics.

To add to Molten, threaten does precisely the opposite of what you think it does. You approach merchant. You threaten merchant. You roleplay with merchant, now safe knowing if THEY choose to suddenly start spamming code, you'll automatically get to intervene. It's designed so that people who want to get into fights can still emote and roleplay without risking their victims simply spam walking away while they do so. The things that trigger threaten to attack are draw, movement, ect.

..You can still run away from someone threatening you. I think if they guard directions before threatening you, it would inhibit the result of escaping unscathed.

[Jinxed]

That does not really rekindle my faith.
Situation you are describing is that there are people who value mechanics of speedwalking away from roleplay to, well, roleplay. And to adress the issue there was inroduced.... a mechanic. Quaint.

[Riev]

That does not really rekindle my faith.
Situation you are describing is that there are people who value mechanics of speedwalking away from roleplay to, well, roleplay. And to adress the issue there was inroduced.... a mechanic. Quaint.

Its hard to rekindle faith when the faithless demand satisfaction. Rather than.... faith.

Its a mechanic that has been asked for, and solves AN issue. Maybe not the specific "speedwalking away" one, but there are other mechanics to keep people from doing that. A multitude.

[Veselka]

Its hard to rekindle faith when the faithless demand satisfaction. Rather than.... faith.

This is some ice cold shit a Templar should rip off.

I want a Templar who calls Commoners "The Faithless".

[MarshallDFX]

Threaten is an awesome mechanic.  We all face the stinging barb of the code sometimes and frankly that's what makes Armageddon way more interesting than a MUSH. 

I don't avoid RP, I just I never go in against a Sicilian when death is on the line.