An idea to help criminals and shadow artists in Tuluk...

[CodeMaster]

Half-elves aren't KNOWN to be thieves, as a whole. Elves in Armageddon are known to be thieves. That's why GMHs make exceptions for half-elves. Not because they're better, but because they are less likely to start right out of the gate with their hands in the GMH's pocket/trunk/stables/backpack/footlockers.

Half-elves aren't a race unto themselves, or really an identifiable group at all.  They also represent a very small portion of the population, so I conjecture people wouldn't have enough experience with half-elves to generalize about their behavior the way they can with elves.

I'm not entirely disagreeing, but what you can tell from looking at a half-elf is this:  he or she is "half" an elf, and as far as any human knows may have inherited a propensity to steal.  Moreover (and worse yet) he or she is an aberration, the result of an unnatural union between species.

[number13]

In other words, people don't mistrust elves due to some "perception" of elves being thieves. They don't trust them, because elves ARE thieves. It's not a perception. It's a fact.
Elf/thief + Kadius/valueable stealable shit = really stupid idea.

Human/commoner + Kadius/valuable stealable shit = really stupid idea

A Kadian shouldn't be hiring a human off the street, giving her free passage into the compound, and then expecting against all hope that commoner wouldn't abscond with everything not nailed down. In fact, I did exactly this.  A Kadian hired my scummy, sand-flea infested human 'hunter', and the very next RL day I took off with as much shit as I thought I could get away with (while still respecting that NPC guards were watching) and fucked off to Red Storm.  There was so much shit to steal that the dent I made didn't seem to make a difference. The PCs never even bothered to go after me. I informed staff, and the yet, the world turned on without caring.

That doesn't happen every time or uncommonly because the clanned PCs need a certain amount of autonomy to be playable. It makes endless sense to hire an elf: very cheap and plentiful labor, known for having mercantile bents. In fact, a House might negotiate to put an entire small tribe on the payroll. It's just that they would be watched, just as my grubby 'hunter' should have been watched.

If anything, half-elves should be the undesirable ones.  They have a worse reputation than elves for being scum, and a highly individualistic bent, and the ability to leave the city-states. And elf is stuck in the city-state, and further, has a tribe that is stuck in the city-state. If the elven hire takes off with a sack of stuff and fucks off to a far corner of the Known, you can punish his family.  The half-elf has no family to hold hostage.

[FantasyWriter]

I try to vet ALL my employee hopefuls for at least a week, preferably two. Save time, effort, report space, etc.
Talk to them, get to know them, give them tests to pass to prove their worth.
Unless it's sweat-shop labor or meatshield, you shouldn't every just hire anyone off the street.

[Patuk]

That.. Is a hilarious example, if only because an elf may not have done so at all. Too easy.

[long live miley cyrus]

This was probably suggested about three or four times in this thread but dumb down the extent of the big brother system for certain areas?

Like, say that this particular camera whatever or whatever the fuck you use "costs too much and we need to stop powering it with abominable magicks/take it back" or something like that. You still have three whatthefucks left, you just had one or two taken away because it costs too much/the templarate don't care if crime skyrockets. If I sound like I have no idea how it works, I really don't.

I would love to be a nobody who is truly afraid to try to walk to the tavern at night. Which has happened before, but kind of rarely to be honest. Definitely afraid to sit outside somewhere at night, though, and not just from one or two instances.

[number13]

I don't know this for an absolute fact, but I'm fairly certain it's possible to be a bit of a thug in Tuluk and get away with it.

Going on a murder rampage is going to get you caught, but if you're careful about and when and why you mug an NPC (or even a PC), I'm willing to bet 10 sid that it could be done without the wtfpwn squad descending from heaven to disappear you.  If you really want to be smart about, join the levies as an insurance policy. When you are caught, you can plead for mercy more effectively.

[long live miley cyrus]

For those of you experienced with criminals: easier in Tuluk or easier in Allanak, right now, as of this very moment in time?

Not the legal stuff, either, the stuff that pcs are going to want to catch you for.

I know there's different types of criminals but I'm more interested in pickpockets/thieves/burglars/muggers and one-time killers/serial killers/overly enthusiastic muggers, because those seem able to work the best independently, without needing to embroil themselves with company that can get them killed in a manner not related to them personally committing a crime.

I'm also under the impression that being a criminal is much harder in Luir's and Red Storm. For those in the know, how well do you think this is enforced? Does having to have nosave combat off in Luir's impede violent crime or change it unrealistically? In a way that negatively affects crime maybe?

[Malken]

If you want to play the opposite of what Tuluk's image has been for a long time, now's the time.

Not going to say more about it, but the change, it is being "it".

[FantasyWriter]

Re: Luir's and Red Storm
Pretty sure commiting coded crime in these two is a death sentence. I know it was before the crim code was changed so that night/darkness plays a role in the crim-code.

They both have jails but NPC soldiers just cut offenders down if they are caught.

[Dresan]

For those of you experienced with criminals: easier in Tuluk or easier in Allanak, right now, as of this very moment in time?

I don't think I'm that experienced but playing a criminal has  been easier in Allanak. I don't think that is going to change either. At the end of the day allanak has the rinth and even redstorm. I think some people here would beat me up in the street for saying this but yes I feel redstorm is an extention of allanak. It CAN be its own place, with its own plots just like the rinth but both places interact wonderfully with allanak as well.

Just the fact that these places exist means that you as a criminal, mugger, raider, murder or whatever have a place to run away too. More importantly, people are more likely to blame someone from the rinth rather then you or assume that raider is from redstorm. Shit happens in allanak, and no one bats an eye because its expected that shit will happen in and around allanak. I don't know how it is for tuluk right now though. Can you get away with being a bit of a thug in tuluk? Yeah maybe, but you can be a full thug in allanak and get away with that there.  Tuluk is a different beast though, it isn't allanak, and I don't think we'll ever see crime being something big there. Some crime being present in tuluk? Dagger stolen off a belt. Yes. Being prevalent and bold? People getting mugged/murdered on the street? No.

Where tuluk excels is its surrounding wilderness and that where the main conflict for tuluk needs to come from, an area where the templars and the solders can't quite fully control. Think of conflicts involving  under tuluk, and then there were the red fangs. These are external sources of conflict which do bring the city to life in my opinion. I keep thinking the human and elf tribes need to be brought out of the pah, and forced into the areas surrounding around tuluk.  This would force trade and conflict between them, the city and each other. Nothing at the level of violence of what occurred with the red fangs but something more moderate and stable. It would give the surrounding areas a more intelligent source of danger and perhaps give the criminals of tuluk some scapegoats when they attempt something, not to mention give people more competition for the resources there.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

In Red Storm, they shouldn't automatically kill you - I'd liek to see you stripped naked when you are released and be forced to start from that fucked up state, instead of your story being ended.

In Luir's, I'd like to see you perma-crimmed in the Outpost and released at the gates with no weapons.

It would be neat nuances to the way that each place handled crime, without ending your story automatically.

[Malken]

In Red Storm, they shouldn't automatically kill you - I'd liek to see you stripped naked when you are released and be forced to start from that fucked up state, instead of your story being ended.

In Luir's, I'd like to see you perma-crimmed in the Outpost and released at the gates with no weapons.

It would be neat nuances to the way that each place handled crime, without ending your story automatically.

Storm could just throw you in a pit of sort where you'd have to do menial work to be allowed out. Instead of foraging clay, you'd have to forage for rocks in the pit and when you'd have a certain amount, friend, you'd be allowed out once more.

Mmmmm, where have I stolen that idea from ...

[FantasyWriter]

In Red Storm, they shouldn't automatically kill you - I'd liek to see you stripped naked when you are released and be forced to start from that fucked up state, instead of your story being ended.

In Luir's, I'd like to see you perma-crimmed in the Outpost and released at the gates with no weapons.

It would be neat nuances to the way that each place handled crime, without ending your story automatically.

Storm could just throw you in a pit of sort where you'd have to do menial work to be allowed out. Instead of foraging clay, you'd have to forage for rocks in the pit and when you'd have a certain amount, friend, you'd be allowed out once more.

Mmmmm, where have I stolen that idea from ...

Set them to work in the windmills...
You haven't ground enough wheat yet, friend.

[Malken]

Set them to work in the windmills...
You haven't ground enough wheat yet, friend.

[FantasyWriter]

You haven't ground enough wheat yet, friend.

Rather:
You ain't groun' 'nough flo'r yet, piss-ant.

[number13]

Rather:
You ain't groun' 'nough flo'r yet, piss-ant.

Y' a't gr'n' 'nuff fl'r ye', pis'-an'

[FantasyWriter]

Rather:
You ain't groun' 'nough flo'r yet, piss-ant.

Y' a't gr'n' 'nuff fl'r ye', pis'-an'

Red Storm, not the Rinth.

[Classclown]

Why should being a thief be easy? You can already open and close things unseen, break into people's apartments and sneak around, nearly invisible.
Also, elves are thieves. It's not even something they can deny, due to the docs. You could remove that, but I think that's the basis for why the humans don't trust them and discriminate against them.

[FantasyWriter]

Why should being a thief be easy? You can already open and close things unseen, break into people's apartments and sneak around, nearly invisible.
Also, elves are thieves. It's not even something they can deny, due to the docs. You could remove that, but I think that's the basis for why the humans don't trust them and discriminate against them.

Some people like playing easy mode, even when they are playing both a race and a skill set which -should- be make play more challenging.

Incoming RL comparison:  I want to play that new 1940s Pre-WWII Europe MUD. Hrm, I'll role up a Jewish Conartist in Germany.
                                   Two weeks later: OMG this is hard, no one wants to hire me and no one trusts me, this game is broken!

[long live miley cyrus]

Focus on ease of OOC anonymity rather than coded ease? I'd love to play a murderer who could get away with it for a while with victims that aren't bottom of the barrel socially, who also had thinks and let a rare person see their face, and could also sit at a bar with soldiers _in the knowledge that they never actually told anybody they killed people._

Can you tell I'm not real familiar with the Big Brother system? I don't know, with that factored in, how well this would work in reality.

[Reiloth]

Why should being a thief be easy? You can already open and close things unseen, break into people's apartments and sneak around, nearly invisible.
Also, elves are thieves. It's not even something they can deny, due to the docs. You could remove that, but I think that's the basis for why the humans don't trust them and discriminate against them.

Some people like playing easy mode, even when they are playing both a race and a skill set which -should- be make play more challenging.

Incoming RL comparison:  I want to play that new 1940s Pre-WWII Europe MUD. Hrm, I'll role up a Jewish Conartist in Germany.
                                   Two weeks later: OMG this is hard, no one wants to hire me and no one trusts me, this game is broken!

Wait, is that actually a Mud??

[Thunkkin]

Why should being a thief be easy? You can already open and close things unseen, break into people's apartments and sneak around, nearly invisible.
Also, elves are thieves. It's not even something they can deny, due to the docs. You could remove that, but I think that's the basis for why the humans don't trust them and discriminate against them.

Some people like playing easy mode, even when they are playing both a race and a skill set which -should- be make play more challenging.

Incoming RL comparison:  I want to play that new 1940s Pre-WWII Europe MUD. Hrm, I'll role up a Jewish Conartist in Germany.
                                   Two weeks later: OMG this is hard, no one wants to hire me and no one trusts me, this game is broken!

Wait, is that actually a Mud??

Don't bother. The ghetto is virtual and Jews aren't allowed to have families.

Wait ... I'm in the wrong thread, aren't I?

[long live miley cyrus]

Just for the record, you can get away with the world's most fucked up shit in your initial background, so long as you aren't openly codedly doing it in character.

Seriously, I've done this from smalltime to "Holy shit, he did what now?" and psychology dictates that soldiers can't be bothered to give a fuck if you're behaving at the moment. They will watch you a good bit though once those thinks get through.

[Reiloth]

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[RogueGunslinger]

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