Involving people who don't play US evenings

[Malken]

Yeah, as I said, Allanak is probably a lot different than Tuluk and that's why I suggested that most off-peak players should play in Allanak.

Good luck finding 15 players looking for jobs in Tuluk at off-peak, though.

[Patuk]

That's.. Entirely besides the point, but okay.

[Malken]

That's.. Entirely besides the point, but okay.

What is beside the point?

You're telling me that if we allow a off peak player to play a noble during off peak time in Allanak he's going to have a pool of 15 players to pick from.

I'm agreeing with you that it's quite possible in Allanak (and someone should definitely try it out) but good luck pulling those numbers in Tuluk when having 2-3 players in your House is already a great feat during peak time.

[Narf]

And it's my assumption that if you throw a RPT it's because you're wanting as many people as you can get to attend and enjoy it.

If you're wanting to limit the number of players attending your RPT then it becomes more of a private RPT and unless it's a private RPT tossed for off-peak players, limiting the number of players that can attend it certainly doesn't help off-peak players, which is what the thread is about.

Off-peak players would be ecstatic to find 6-8 players in the same room to rp with, something us peak players take for granted as just your normal night at the Gaj.

The purpose of my post was to point out that someone that threw an open RPT (virtually everyone allowed in the area can come) during offpeak times might snag extra players that normally wouldn't attend a peak RPT because of rather than despite the smaller number of players.

So those of us that like smaller RPTs could actually organize open events during offpeak times and get our wish.

[Nyr]

Forget about nobles not having time for good RP opportunities in Tuluk during peak times... What about commoners not having any good RP opportunities.

If ever there was a time to say 'be the change' and not be ironic about it, it would be any case when someone is complaining that there are no good RP opportunities in the place that they are playing (especially during peak times). 

This conversation doesn't need to go in that direction, though.  We're talking about ways to involve folks that are more off-peak than not.

I think when we were planning out the last HRPT, we went with Sunday ultimately due to RL considerations for staff.
When doing RPTs in Tuluk considering some off-peak players (and off-peak staff), I have aimed for Saturday afternoons.  Is there a perfect time that gets almost everyone at a not-so-shitty hour, all things considered?  Based on my checking last time, the ideal time for a 2 hour RPT would be about 5 or 6 PM Eastern time on a Saturday.

[Barsook]

5 or 6 PM EST on a Saturday works for me and I'm more than happy to have one during that time frame (maybe an hour later) than another time frames.

Sorry for butting in with a comment like this.

[Malken]

We'll forgive you this time for having a life, Nyr!

And yeah, I'd love to be the change in Tuluk since I consider myself a professional Tuluki but I think I'm getting old and anything that requires a faint amount of energy makes me just want to curl up in my comfy chair and take a nap instead

Maybe the summer will change that!

[slvrmoontiger]

5 or 6pm on Saturday would be fine... That would be 10 or 11pm around for people in England... I'm not really sure where OP is from so I couldn't say. But I think that time frame might catch some off-peak and peak players and could be a decent mix for a good time.

[Nyr]

I don't mean just in Tuluk, though.  RPTs happen in lots of places and off-peakers play in lots of places.  So don't be afraid to chime in with what is more workable for you wherever you are.

[Zoan]

RPT times: American Saturdays is best for Aussies - it's our sunday.

Off-peak players: as one of them, it's the #1, #2 and #3 reason I never apply for sponsored roles, because why would staff give it to someone who logs in to do high-level game impact when 4 other people are around? That doesn't drive the game.

[Delusion]

5 to 6pm server time is probably the best time you're likely to get to catch players from all over, yeah.

Here's a thought: adjust noble and merchant House documentation a little to allow for the delegation of additional responsibilities to minions. Or for nobles, at least. So perhaps have aides with certain hiring rights, or who can grant or revoke permission for some stuff without having to pass everything through the noble first - they can report it after if they must. Give aides actual documented authority rather than, er, whatever they're currently permitted, which I think amounts to 'not a lot', plus some sitting at bars and passing messages. To the best of my knowledge, and not counting House paramilitary outfits where a Sergeant-type person can generally hire, all hiring is ultimately done by a noble. I'd look at changing that up, if I wanted to get more people involved with where plots and whatnot are presumably at.

[valeria]

I'd like to see more off peak sponsored roles in existence.  With nobles, it creates the problem where if you want to get anything done, you have to involve other nobility.  If you can never find those nobility, or find their aides, because your time and your aides' time doesn't overlap, that is very difficult.  It's difficult to even write them letters, for lack of someone to deliver them.

What I would love to see, which I think is on topic for that reason, are scripted NPC at the gates of the noble houses to whom someone could deliver written letters to a named noble, which the specified noble could then pick up.  (Merchant houses too, not that they're writing or anything, it's all just tabulations Lady Templar )  We might have less problem finding and retaining off-peak nobles if there was an easy way to get them involved in, and keep them involved in, on-peak politics and projects.

On a side note, I think that the mentality that "nothing goes on during off peak times" is an untrue and self-perpetuating statement.  Admittedly I have never played solely off peak.  But a lot of times I have logged in off peak, I have found things to do, both in and out of sponsored roles.  If you don't log in because you think that nothing is going on, nothing will be going on.  If you play consistently, and are fun to play around, people will find you.

[Rahnevyn]

So perhaps have aides with certain hiring rights, or who can grant or revoke permission for some stuff without having to pass everything through the noble first - they can report it after if they must. Give aides actual documented authority rather than, er, whatever they're currently permitted, which I think amounts to 'not a lot', plus some sitting at bars and passing messages. To the best of my knowledge, and not counting House paramilitary outfits where a Sergeant-type person can generally hire, all hiring is ultimately done by a noble. I'd look at changing that up, if I wanted to get more people involved with where plots and whatnot are presumably at.

Aide roles like this do exist, both of the sponsored-in and worked-their-way-up variety. The best known examples might be Borsail Advisors/Administrators, though similar concepts have happened in Oash and Fale. Will you see aides selling slaves or planning entire Festivals? Probably not, but with the right amount of trust earned they've been able to throw RPTs on their own in the past. Hopefully, we'll continue to see this in the future, too.

[Miggy]

Or, maybe if you are an off-peak player in your region, you can go out and recruit some new Arm'ers that live near you so there will be more players during your available times. 
That should be good for everyone.

"hey buddy! I know you never seemed like the roleplaying type of guy, but I know this awesome game called 'Armageddon'....

[Zoan]

As a noble, my expectation on an aide would be 'Did you do a thing for me and it made me money/gained me positive opinion?' If yes, good work. If no, what are you good for?

I don't micromanage my staff IRL, why would I elsewhere?

[Malken]

As a noble, my expectation on an aide would be 'Did you do a thing for me and it made me money/gained me positive opinion?' If yes, good work. If no, what are you good for?

I'd be like, "Fuck off, if you aren't happy with my work I'll go work for the guy that's actually around when I am! I do what I want!"

emote snaps his fingers and storms off with a hmpft.

[Zoan]

That sounds reasonable.

[Zoan]

IC I tend to be like 'Oh good, the person with control over my life doesn't realize I exist. So long as the coin comes my way I'm happy.'

OOC I tend to be like 'Maaaaaaan I sure could do with some templar-grovelling right now.'

[Eyeball]

posts detailing how even peak nobles and such can't get proper employees

What is a proper employee for a noble?

Actually, why not just close Tuluk (it's isolating itself from the south now anyhow) and close the Tablelands clans (which might as well be playing on a different server, almost) as an experiment for a few months. Or do you all figure some people would just quit the game if that happened?

[long live miley cyrus]

To me it seems like the best and most easily(?) implemented idea so far is to close off some of those one and two player clans to consolidate the Tuluki player base. Three sides sounds perfect, you add in the Faithful, and that's the wild card, the fourth side that isn't really a side.

I have no idea what's going on in the tablelands. People are playing there? (Sorry, I just sort of assumed they either haunt Luir's these days, or are gypsies trying to pretend they don't exist around other people as they ping pong between Luir's and Red Storm)

EDIT: I would have also said giving aides and other such non-leaders more ability to hire on new people, but I can't really see such a shift in the social structure working out well in more than a few cases. Also, this endangers the hirer the way it wouldn't have if the noble/merchant house family member were the hirer; what if they hire someone who turns out to be the next (insert name here)? In the worst, worst way. Great for stories, for the plots, for the conflict--- but the aide now has to shoulder the consequences in order to save their employer's face, and didn't have a clue this slap in the face with a fish was coming to them.

Obviously this is all subjective. I just can't really see Niceknifesmilekill Salaar, who is either stored, dead or hanging onto the slightest bit of dearly-given power with their toes while they're trying to walk, suddenly deciding to give Aide Sexyladyassassin the power to hire anyone she deems worthy. I'd rather a different solution were reached than for everyone to get an unrealistic (and god help us, visibly permanent in its decisions) blindspot, even a harmless one, especially when it comes to power play and the social order.

(I mean most aides and aide-analogues--- not the ones with some actual, realistic weight to throw around.)

[Patuk]

Christ, you're making what I'm saying seem complicated.

Suppose I log in during a morning where I don't have class, or an early afternoon, which would be around 4-8 am server time. During this time I find two people to RP with, one of which is a magicker, the other of which is an independent ranger. This is not an uncommon occurence.

Do their players specifically like those roles? Maybe. But hell, have you ever tried playing during such times and getting clanned? I've had characters stay independent for more than a week simply because I couldn't find a soul with the power to hire. That all I meet is magickers and independents isn't very strange when you consider that such roles are all that's viable without having actual people around.

Yes, nobles playing during peak time are going to have more people around. Now the thirty or so people who play when I'm long asleep can decide who they'll work for and act all entitled because hey plenty nobles, if this one is mean I can jump ship and go elsewhere.

More sponsored roles across the timezone board would do more than just give opportunities to play in clans for those outside the US, though. Other than simply giving those playing outside peak times someone to flock around, you ensure that the leaders who do play during peak times won't have to compete for employees as much.

[Dakota]

I do want to point out that when you're OFF PEAK the game can feel like a stand alone experience.

When you're pro-active you CAN do stuff... But the moment you involve others in your plots and THEY have to deal with their clan leaders who are peak, things become a bit of a nightmare.

I say this from experience as I've had about 3 very pro-active, off-peak PCs (and with every PC I've had, I've tried at least to 'be the change').

That being said, I've managed to do a lot in the game Off-Peak and staff have been supportive... But people do get impatient when you play in the wee hours of EST time, esp if you're trying run a plot or are a lynch pin in one. When a few off-peak players get together amazing things can happen though. I'm a bit biased and consider us off-peak players the cream of the crop

Yet, it's one of the reasons I don't play pro-active PC's anymore.

If you play consistently, and are fun to play around, people will find you.

...and this is very true.

[Lizzie]

There's off peak, and there's off peak.

2AM to 6AM server time - that's about as off-peak as it gets.

However, 8AM-4PM is also off-peak, and I can usually swing a couple of hours during those times, on most days.

On the other end of the spectrum, 10PM-midnite server time seems to be part of peak-time, and I can *rarely* play during that two-hour window, even on weekends.

I often miss parts of RPTs even if I can attend them, because they usually run longer than I can stay logged in. Doesn't bother me too much though, as long as I can participate in parts of them, I'm usually content.

[Barsook]

I often miss parts of RPTs even if I can attend them, because they usually run longer than I can stay logged in. Doesn't bother me too much though, as long as I can participate in parts of them, I'm usually content.

[solera]

Even if you just play consistently, people will see you.

I try to be consistently seen as RL lets me, to do my bit for off peakers, even  when I made my grumpy old bag  visit the 'Post for a drink every third RL day. I try to be there to show that the world isn't Empty,to show there is an off peaker in my clan, to be a message boy in Chinese whispers. Another PC and another PC and you've got a crowd! That's what I live for.
I am grateful for players of those Nobles that offer me the PM option to arrange face to face meetings.
And thank goodness for Sundays sorry Saturdays, too. Meet the world day.