Involving people who don't play US evenings

[Delusion]

We have a number of players from parts of the world that don't match up very well to US timezones. It is no coincidence at all that the player count when it's late at night all over America is absolutely minuscule, and as it is, it's kind of a vicious circle. There aren't players around to make stuff happen, so there's nothing happening to keep players involved, so players don't log in, meaning there's nobody around to, you know, make stuff happen.

The way I see it, there are two major issues that might be rectified in some fashion.

There aren't enough movers and shakers who play off-peak.

And having just one mover and shaker who is on off-peak from time to time isn't sufficient. For one thing, the player's likely to be bored stupid from lack of things to do, and frustrated that there are all these other moving, shaking sorts around who apparently want to meet them, and complain that they aren't available, despite it merely being a chance of incompatible playtimes. I can't think of any sponsored role I've encountered lately where the player has played solely off-peak - not counting weekends, I suppose. It's not feasible.

Staff used to post calls for sponsored roles requiring that the player have good availability at peak hours. How about flipping that on its head?

RPTs etc. are frequently inconveniently timed.

An RPT taking place in the early evening American time is going to be middle of the night for Europeans, and nearer to midday for various Asians and Australians. One way to alleviate this issue is to hold your RPTs on weekends, during the morning American time if you want to catch both Europeans and Aussies, or at least afternoons to let Europeans and perhaps early-rising Australians in. No time is perfect, but some times are just awful. Also, by RPT, I mean anything from big staff-run things to escorting a wagon around.



I'm sure someone has far better ideas, or a better analysis of the problem or potential solutions, but having a thread to flag it up is at least a good starting point, I hope.

[Malken]

I don't want to sound like I'm picking on Tuluk too much but since the thread is related to an RPT in Tuluk, I'm going to go ahead and make a few points.

Can you imagine being a noble playing in Tuluk at off-peak? Man, even at peak time noble PCs are desperate for good rp and minions to play with because there's really not that many to pick from to begin with AT PEAK. I've recently played in Tuluk and even at peak there isn't that many PCs to begin with, and most PC nobles (and the Legion) are lacking in PCs to make the roles what they really could be with a full house.

So I don't really see why Staff should put out a call for a off peak noble PC when peak-nobles already have a hard time finding players to fill up their ranks.

Same goes for RPTs, you really want to max out your players during such events and it will always suck for off peak players, no matter what time you peak. If you want your RPT to be successful (even more so in Tuluk), you need to make sure that you have the max number of players that can attend it, and that is certainly not during Sunday afternoon (when most people are out with their loved ones), nor is it during dinner time, so that leaves the peak evenings when it really sucks for the few off-peak players.

Early morning American time is probably the worse time ever, since many are coming back from clubbing and partying, or went to bed real late, are starting their day with their loved ones to go somewhere, etc, etc...

I think there should be a forum for off-peak players and you guys should be allowed to pick a clan or a city so that you all somewhat end up in the same spot at the same time, then stuff could start happening, but if out of the 10 off peak players 2 chooses to play in Tuluk, 5 wants to play in Allanak, two wants to be solo rangers and one is some rogue 'gikers in the middle of nowhere, it will always suck to be off-peak.

Added: One of the weakness (and sadly, also its strength) of Armageddon is that you are forbidden to speak of anything remotely OOCly, which certainly doesn't help the off-peak case. If there was a sort of automated graph of how many players each clan have and at what time they seem to play, that would probably make it easier for off-peak players to select where they will next play, but sadly, someone will shout how this could be abused and it'll never happen.

[long live miley cyrus]

STOP HAVING LIVES, THIS IS IMPORTANT

To console others, I'd like to add that, as someone who generally is independent to at least a capable degree in plot moving and amusing myself when no one's around, being off-peak, while not as ideal as having two to four times the players, isn't something that concerns me until I can't find that guy that I paid to kill that chick who knows they're not logged in and is doing psionic mess to my head and I don't know whether he's going to kill my character or not.

Apart from that I'm goody good.

I'm not accustomed to providing useful posts.

[Nyr]

When trying to appeal to existing or potential future off-peakers, I try to get events that occur on Saturdays at 5-6 PM.  In the last one in Tuluk, it had to be moved to accommodate a player.  In this one, it has to be this date to accommodate me.

Someone is always going to get boned for any RPT.  It'll be Europeans, or Kiwis/Australians, or Russians, or Hawaiians, or Oregonians, those on the east coast, those with night shift work hours, those with weekend work hours, those with children...the list goes on.  Just like those that can plan for hours every day...get boned by clan structure and clan schedules.

We also don't call specifically for peak or off-peak roles in Tuluk.  We were and have been and will likely continue to be more interested in playtimes.

[Barsook]

Maybe find some off-peak staff to run events in each city?  Or will that not help since the staff-base is small?

[RogueGunslinger]

Axe Red Storm and Luirs as starting locations. Consolidate more.

[Is Friday]

I know I try to do this, but if you're in a clan with off peakers I always offer to arrange a "regular meetup time" where they can check in with the clan leader and get new tasks/RP. Send your clan leaders a PM. You might be pleasantly surprised at how accommodating apped in leaders try to be. I know I try to make time for players bored as hell off peak. The worst that'll happen is they'll say "my ooc schedule is strict".

[Nyr]

Maybe find some off-peak staff to run events in each city?  Or will that not help since the staff-base is small?

We have off-peak staff.  Unfortunately, in this case, this is something I've volunteered to do, I want to do it, and I want to be there for it.  I'm also the administrator for the region, so...I do get a bit of pull if I want to be around for an event.  Since that's the case, it has to be on this day, and since I've got a pretty tight schedule that weekend, it probably needs to be within a specific window of time.  Since it also involves specific PCs that must be there (or really should, if possible), we also accommodate them and make sure this works for as many of them as possible.

For events in general, as I said, if we want to be inclusive of as many time zones as possible, we try to aim for Saturdays in the afternoons if we have enough notice (so people can get out of RL stuff if they want to be there).  But for specific events, sometimes you roll with what works best for the majority.

[long live miley cyrus]

Axe Red Storm and Luirs as starting locations. Consolidate more.

I'd love this for more of new players' first pcs rather than just their first, but to prevent all pcs from being able to be stormers or luirsmen is going to be pretty harsh in my opinion.

Perhaps during chargen, when in the Hall of Kings, require an additional command to show that storm and luir's are starting locations? That way, newbies are more likely to choose tuluk or allanak, in that order. Maybe show that as of (date,) more people are wanted in Tuluk and Allanak is overcrowded, for example, changing over time as staff perceives the flow of players. Just for the city where pcs physically start, but also trickled down to the city of origin as deemed appropriate.

[RogueGunslinger]

Axe Red Storm and Luirs as starting locations. Consolidate more.

I'd love this for more of new players' first pcs rather than just their first, but to prevent all pcs from being able to be stormers or luirsmen is going to be pretty harsh in my opinion.

Newbies already have to start in Allanak or Tuluk. This was just recently added in.

And I say get rid of Luirs/Storm just because it's less controversial than getting rid of Tuluk. Which I'm more than happy to have happen as well.

[Cutthroat]

There isn't really an easy fix for this. No matter when you schedule something, someone else won't be able to make it. For someone who hosts an RPT, the goal is to pick a time where as many people as possible can come and enjoy the event. By definition, off-peakers get screwed by this because they are the minority. There is little incentive to cater to one off-peaker in exchange for losing two peak players for your RPT.

Adding specifically off-peak sponsored roles into the mix won't help all that much. If an off-peak player stores their character to take on a sponsored role, that is effectively one less player playing a "normal" role at off-peak times. There should be some ratio between sponsored and regular roles to ensure that sponsored roles have enough minions and plots and so on.

What has been and likely always will be the problem is that the playerbase is scattered. 50 players scattered around the game at peak time still leaves one player with (ideally, and even this is a stretch) 20-25 PCs to interact with. 10 players scattered around the game at off-peak time leaves the player with, at most, 3-5 other PCs to interact with. And considering how big the game world is, often not even that.

Sadly, there isn't really an easy way to fix this.
- You could post player numbers in certain areas, but that will tip the balance even more. Good for consolidation, but really bad for promoting any sort of variety in the game.
- You could take away HoK options, but that involves taking away options from players when the goal of the game should be to have more options for players whenever it is possible and viable.

The idea I will chip in is this: You could define a "recommended off-peak area" for people who are off-peak, and have it rotate between the smaller areas of the game. Places like Luir's Outpost, Red Storm, and the Labyrinth are small and a few off-peak players in those places would easily run into each other. These areas wouldn't be taken away for peak players, and off-peak players still have the choice to play in other places. But it encourages consolidation without forcing it, and helps guide off-peakers to each other without being forced to play with each other.

[RogueGunslinger]

The idea I will chip in is this: You could define a "recommended off-peak area" for people who are off-peak, and have it rotate between the smaller areas of the game. Places like Luir's Outpost, Red Storm, and the Labyrinth are small and a few off-peak players in those places would easily run into each other. These areas wouldn't be taken away for peak players, and off-peak players still have the choice to play in other places. But it encourages consolidation without forcing it, and helps guide off-peakers to each other without being forced to play with each other.

While I like this idea, I figure all the off-peakers worried about being off peak ALREADY pick Allanak if they're sick of a lack of interaction.

[Tuannon]

Most of the off peak people tend to get into a mindset of needing to be individually orientated in order to function in the game, it kind of perpetuates the problem in a few ways.

In my experience 'clan stacking' by off peakers also doesn't work as it tends to result in a knock on effect from what Cutthroat was talking about, it takes away roles from other people for no real benefit.

[long live miley cyrus]

Axe Red Storm and Luirs as starting locations. Consolidate more.

I'd love this for more of new players' first pcs rather than just their first, but to prevent all pcs from being able to be stormers or luirsmen is going to be pretty harsh in my opinion.

Newbies already have to start in Allanak or Tuluk. This was just recently added in.

And I say get rid of Luirs/Storm just because it's less controversial than getting rid of Tuluk. Which I'm more than happy to have happen as well.

I would be intrigued and interested in this idea if staff declared they were implementing an experimental time period for something like this.

I meant I would like, perhaps the first five, or twelve of a new account's pcs would only have allanak or tuluk as starting locations. Then again, some newbies don't eat through early pcs like I do.

Most of the off peak people tend to get into a mindset of needing to be individually orientated in order to function in the game, it kind of perpetuates the problem in a few ways.

That's probably why I play the way I do, to be honest.

[slvrmoontiger]

I don't want to sound like I'm picking on Tuluk too much but since the thread is related to an RPT in Tuluk, I'm going to go ahead and make a few points.

Can you imagine being a noble playing in Tuluk at off-peak? Man, even at peak time noble PCs are desperate for good rp and minions to play with because there's really not that many to pick from to begin with AT PEAK. I've recently played in Tuluk and even at peak there isn't that many PCs to begin with, and most PC nobles (and the Legion) are lacking in PCs to make the roles what they really could be with a full house.

So I don't really see why Staff should put out a call for a off peak noble PC when peak-nobles already have a hard time finding players to fill up their ranks.

Same goes for RPTs, you really want to max out your players during such events and it will always suck for off peak players, no matter what time you peak. If you want your RPT to be successful (even more so in Tuluk), you need to make sure that you have the max number of players that can attend it, and that is certainly not during Sunday afternoon (when most people are out with their loved ones), nor is it during dinner time, so that leaves the peak evenings when it really sucks for the few off-peak players.

Early morning American time is probably the worse time ever, since many are coming back from clubbing and partying, or went to bed real late, are starting their day with their loved ones to go somewhere, etc, etc...

I think there should be a forum for off-peak players and you guys should be allowed to pick a clan or a city so that you all somewhat end up in the same spot at the same time, then stuff could start happening, but if out of the 10 off peak players 2 chooses to play in Tuluk, 5 wants to play in Allanak, two wants to be solo rangers and one is some rogue 'gikers in the middle of nowhere, it will always suck to be off-peak.

Added: One of the weakness (and sadly, also its strength) of Armageddon is that you are forbidden to speak of anything remotely OOCly, which certainly doesn't help the off-peak case. If there was a sort of automated graph of how many players each clan have and at what time they seem to play, that would probably make it easier for off-peak players to select where they will next play, but sadly, someone will shout how this could be abused and it'll never happen.

Forget about nobles not having time for good RP opportunities in Tuluk during peak times... What about commoners not having any good RP opportunities. The consisten playing population of Tuluk from what I have seen is like this:

1/3 Noble (includes Faithful and Chosen)
1/3 Inked Commoners
1/3 Un-inked Commoners

[Malken]

Sadly, there isn't really an easy way to fix this.
- You could post player numbers in certain areas, but that will tip the balance even more. Good for consolidation, but really bad for promoting any sort of variety in the game.
- You could take away HoK options, but that involves taking away options from players when the goal of the game should be to have more options for players whenever it is possible and viable.

The idea I will chip in is this: You could define a "recommended off-peak area" for people who are off-peak, and have it rotate between the smaller areas of the game. Places like Luir's Outpost, Red Storm, and the Labyrinth are small and a few off-peak players in those places would easily run into each other. These areas wouldn't be taken away for peak players, and off-peak players still have the choice to play in other places. But it encourages consolidation without forcing it, and helps guide off-peakers to each other without being forced to play with each other.

I don't think that variety is that great when it involves a dozen of clans with only 1-3 players in it each. I'd rather have fewer Houses and clans with a whole bunch of PCs in them.

After all, to promote conflict, you only really need two sides going at each other, not 20.

[Delirium]

3 sides... that way alliances can shift and change over time. The same old same old gets tiring.

That could be as simple as three clans within the same city though.

[Malken]

Forget about nobles not having time for good RP opportunities in Tuluk during peak times... What about commoners not having any good RP opportunities. The consisten playing population of Tuluk from what I have seen is like this:

1/3 Noble (includes Faithful and Chosen)
1/3 Inked Commoners
1/3 Un-inked Commoners

While I totally agree with you, OP was mentioning how Staff could open up some roles for non-peak players. My answer was that if nobles already have trouble finding PCs to interact with and hire them in their Houses at peak, I don't think that a non-peak Chosen would have a good time (and even if he did manage to find a couple of other non-peak, he probably would still be left out of the whole political arena due to being the only Chosen around at the time).

I don't really know what the situation is in Allanak these days, but I'm going to assume that there's slightly more PCs for non-peak players there.

I do understand that constantly playing in Allanak if you're off-peak would get rather dull, though, but eh, what can you do..

(even though I'm a hardcore Tuluk fan and I've had some AWESOME Pcs there recently, I've ended up storing them all because it just gets so lonely that I get the grass is probably greener elsewhere syndrome -and- I play peak).

[RogueGunslinger]

I constantly play in Allanak and haven't once gotten sick of it. 

[Malken]

I constantly play in Allanak and haven't once gotten sick of it. 

Yeah but you also play peak and you have a choice, I'm talking about the people who probably prefers another "scene" but are stuck playing in Allanak if they want other PCs to interact with.

[RogueGunslinger]

I constantly play in Allanak and haven't once gotten sick of it. 

Yeah but you also play peak and you have a choice, I'm talking about the people who probably prefers another "scene" but are stuck playing in Allanak if they want other PCs to interact with.

That makes sense.

[Narf]

Same goes for RPTs, you really want to max out your players during such events and it will always suck for off peak players, no matter what time you peak. If you want your RPT to be successful (even more so in Tuluk), you need to make sure that you have the max number of players that can attend it, and that is certainly not during Sunday afternoon (when most people are out with their loved ones), nor is it during dinner time, so that leaves the peak evenings when it really sucks for the few off-peak players.

I'd strongly question the assumption that you need a huge number of players for a good RPT. Actually, I actively avoid large RPTs like this (much more than 10 players in a room) for a wide variety of reasons (screen scroll, diluted importance of participants, unwieldly crowds making it difficult to make things happen, lots of missed poses). I can't imagine I'm the only one either.

My ideal RPT would be in the range of 6-8 players (slightly larger than a tabletop game) and that's more than doable at some of the offpeak times. Particularly if its announced ahead of time.

[Malken]

And it's my assumption that if you throw a RPT it's because you're wanting as many people as you can get to attend and enjoy it.

If you're wanting to limit the number of players attending your RPT then it becomes more of a private RPT and unless it's a private RPT tossed for off-peak players, limiting the number of players that can attend it certainly doesn't help off-peak players, which is what the thread is about.

Off-peak players would be ecstatic to find 6-8 players in the same room to rp with, something us peak players take for granted as just your normal night at the Gaj.

[Delusion]

Just to clarify, I wasn't picking on the upcoming Tuluki event specifically! It just prompted this, that's all.

[Patuk]

posts detailing how even peak nobles and such can't get proper employees

Think of it in this way for a second:

If Allanak during peak has thirty players and three peak nobles, that's ten employees a noble.

If Allanak has thirty during peak and fifteen during good playtimes for me, a noble played by yours truly could try and recruit fifteen people whilst the peakers could end up with a similar number of employees.