Discussion for the Legions / tribal levies

[Desertman]

Please note, if the deception, grit, and exploitation are so well hidden and so subtle in Tuluk that nobody ever even realizes there is any exploitation, grit, or deception....well...it really defeats the purpose. To everyone except the two pc's "in the know", it will always seem like happy hand holding time for the Sun King, that is all their play will ever reflect, and to the majority of the playerbase that is how Tuluk will be perceived.

You've accurately described what we have addressed and continue to address in Tuluk, though it also was nowhere near the levels of hyperbole you've suggested.  I encourage you to move past what you didn't like about it before and to also move past what you think its playerbase is like and instead focus on the now.

I'm right there with you. Looking forward to the changes. 

[Zoan]

Nyr, if you could make it that crime is free and open in the designated dirty Levies areas, it would make being in the Levies so much more entertaining. I have this impression that the Levies, yes, is where shiny-eyed patriots go to serve the Sun King for a spell, but I have a feeling if you're shiny-eyed and patriotic, you're probably doing a "stint" in the Legions.

No, the Levies is where you are if you screwed up BIG, and now you're atoning. You're not saying it, nobody's saying it, but you're all the worst kinds of people in Tuluk who now have a brand and will be rounded up to vanguard in the event of total war.

[Nyr]

The dangerous thing about threads like this

or repeated digs about a city-state's culture like this

"Welcome my happy good friends. We will all hold hands and worship the Sun King together and it will be glorious and we can dance and sing and train together for the betterment of each other, my brothers and sisters, and our happy family called Tuluk."

or this

Everyone holding hands singing songs in a sparring circle of patriotic city-wide unity (while sipping tea of course).

isn't that it's going to ruffle someone's feathers because they like something you don't like.  It isn't that it offends anyone or annoys them (even if it is annoying from time to time).  We had a freakin' hippy drum circle in Tuluk that poked fun at that idea at one point, it stands to reason it should be a joke at times.  The dangerous thing is that repeating it often enough might confuse some people (even you) into thinking that this is the way Tuluk is, especially when you throw it into a thread discussing the here and now, not the "what-has-been." 

Something good for all players to do (but especially those in Tuluk):  re-read the documentation.  Take a moment, sit down, and read the docs for Tuluk.  I don't care if you're a dyed-in-the-wool southern-loving player that will never set foot in Tuluk except to conquer it.  I don't care if you're a northern patriot that has been playing for years.  This city has changed in some significant (and yes, in some subtle) ways.  We have done what we can with the documentation to present a consistent view of the city-state.  We're open to areas of improvement.  We do what we can to animate to represent these changes.  However, the rest is in the hands of the players, whether in Tuluk or not.  That's part of the reason we've had templars and nobles (in some cases at least) on board with the docs changes first because we want them to understand the overall vision of Tuluk and encourage the good and discourage the bad.  You might think you don't need to read the docs because you have your idea of what Tuluk is like (whether you like it or no).  The biggest concern might be that you'll read a section you think you know and you'll gloss over it, even though there have been several changes, and you'll miss that.  Read it anyway.  Review the publicly available history page information and parse what has happened in Tuluk since the Battle of Tyn Dashra.  Ask questions.  Form new views of what Tuluk is like, come up with some real world analogies, help others understand your idea of what you see it like, and be prepared to be corrected if you're a bit off.

After you've done that, you can make the bunny hugging hippy drum circle tea sipping jokes.

[Zoan]

Fun Fact: You cannot write a paragraph about Tuluk without including the word "subtle", even if it's not directly referencing Tuluk.

[Nyr]

Fun Fact: You cannot write a paragraph about Tuluk without including the word "subtle", even if it's not directly referencing Tuluk.

true dat

[Desertman]

After you've done that, you can make the bunny hugging hippy drum circle tea sipping jokes.

Fine, fine. I promise, no more Tuluk jokes until I have put in another long lived PC there. I admit it has been a little while.

[Zoan]

Nyyyyyyyr, make the Levies a cesspool of crime and debauchery by turning off the crimcode~~~

[manonfire]

I miss Undertuluk.

[Barsook]

I miss Undertuluk.

[BleakOne]

I like the idea of meatshield Levies.

"Oh, the Kryl are playing up again? Soften them up with the Levies first, then send in the Legion as the killing blow."

[Rathustra]

Great to hear people are excited about the levies! A strong motivation behind the concept was helping to provide a location for lower working-class Tulukis to get involved with the city's wider politics. It also had some OOC motivators of providing a 'safety net' for new players in the same way that the Byn does in the south - without simply copying the situation in the south. On top of this, it will hopefully also provide a focus for PCs to meet and interact, helping to pin players to a common location. If lots of people are playing around the same places then people have a way to find interaction and interaction hopefully means you're not just playing solo.

[FreeRangeVestric]

Can a non-citizen join the levies?

[KankWhisperer]

Where would these people be on the tuluki cast structure chart?

[slvrmoontiger]

Where would these people be on the tuluki cast structure chart?

Good question, related question: Does the restructuring (so to speak) of the Legions change how they are on the caste structure?

[Rathustra]

Can a non-citizen join the levies?

Currently, because of recent events in Tuluk involving non-citizens and the wider war-footing of the two City-States, the levies, like the rest of Tuluk, is rather hostile to non-citizens. This could change in the future.

Where would these people be on the tuluki cast structure chart?

Members of the levy get the equivalent of a 'plus 0.5' to their social standing - a warrens-born labourer who serves will be considered more favourably than one that doesn't do his duty - but he wouldn't hold a candle to a well-dressed noble partisan. Similarly an elf in the levy is still an elf - he's just a more desirable sort of elf that knows their place.

Technically anyone of the common caste can join the levy. The actuality will likely be that those with associated with, say, a GMH can pay the levy tax (a sort of scutage) and reap the patriotic kudos without any actual effort (yay corruption!).

I can't comment on wider restructuring of the Legions and how that effects the caste chart as I've only been focusing on the levy.

[Twilight]

Now you've confused me.

Is a commoner required to either be in the levy or pay a levy tax?  That seems to be what was implied?

How you do "retire" from the levy?  I assume you put in a system so that folks didn't "retire" when it looked like death dealing action was on the horizon?

"Stint" in the Legion.  Is that go through the recruit phase, and then have some sort of contract time, as far as being Private for awhile?  Once you are out, can you come back for another "stint" for a time?

Would the .5 be additive?  So the well-dressed noble partisan that is/has been a member of the levy would have more social status than a different well-dressed noble partisan (with a same ssocial status noble)?  How about that vs someone who had a "stint" in the Legions?

Are the social status increases for levy and Legion permanent lifelong, or do they only apply while you are actively in the levy or Legion?

[Zoan]

How you do "retire" from the levy?  I assume you put in a system so that folks didn't "retire" when it looked like death dealing action was on the horizon?

Well it's easy. You just inform your nearest Templar and he or she takes you into the Pyramid for your exit interview.

[Ol 55]

Is a commoner required to either be in the levy or pay a levy tax?  That seems to be what was implied?

The levy tax is something imposed on organizations to contribute to supplies or funding.  It's also code for a bribe that can be paid to a templar in order to avoid levy duties or combat action.

How you do "retire" from the levy?  I assume you put in a system so that folks didn't "retire" when it looked like death dealing action was on the horizon?

You don't.  You're marked.  Dereliction of levy duties is a crime ...  Unless you can conjure up the necessary kickback.  It's entirely possible to gain patriotic status as a levy member, and never once show up for duty or fight a battle.  That's corruption, baby.

"Stint" in the Legion.  Is that go through the recruit phase, and then have some sort of contract time, as far as being Private for awhile?  Once you are out, can you come back for another "stint" for a time?

The Legions now hire Privates to contracts.  All leadership roles (Corporal and above) require a life oath.  If you left the Legion in good standing, it is possible to take time away and return for another contract.

Would the .5 be additive?  So the well-dressed noble partisan that is/has been a member of the levy would have more social status than a different well-dressed noble partisan (with a same social status noble)?  How about that vs someone who had a "stint" in the Legions?

Where you have two socially equal citizens, and one is a member of the levies, that one enjoys slightly higher status, and can call to that.  Service in the Legion grants a higher status than membership in the levies.

Are the social status increases for levy and Legion permanent lifelong, or do they only apply while you are actively in the levy or Legion?

This is the only question I don't know the answer to, although, I am going to guess that because both of these can and do often grant tattoos because of membership, then yes, as per Tuluki culture, you have a permanent showing of your patriotism.  You have a tattoo.

[BadSkeelz]

*snrk*

[BadSkeelz]

"Stint" in the Legion.  Is that go through the recruit phase, and then have some sort of contract time, as far as being Private for awhile?  Once you are out, can you come back for another "stint" for a time?

The Legions now hire Privates to contracts.  All leadership roles (Corporal and above) require a life oath.  If you left the Legion in good standing, it is possible to take time away and return for another contract.

This did catch my attention as being different from how I've seen other clans treat corporals: as semi-permanent 'senior privates.' What happens if a northern corporal gets demoted back to Private? Does their life oath become void?

[Ol 55]

This did catch my attention as being different from how I've seen other clans treat corporals: as semi-permanent 'senior privates.' What happens if a northern corporal gets demoted back to Private? Does their life oath become void?

Privates can swear life oaths, and the only way to rescind a life oath is through exile, death or completion of service (30 years).  The way I've seen most military clans in Arm treat rankings are that Corporals are the sort of NCO rank.  As to how I see the new ranks, for your edification:

Private


Corporal


Sergeant


Lieutenant


Captain


Recruit


Ok ...

Maybe this post was a little over the top.

[QuillDipper]

No, I think this is just about my favorite post on the site.

[Zoan]

Maaaaatttt Daaaaammmmon

[Rathustra]

Now you've confused me.

Is a commoner required to either be in the levy or pay a levy tax?  That seems to be what was implied?

How you do "retire" from the levy?  I assume you put in a system so that folks didn't "retire" when it looked like death dealing action was on the horizon?

"Stint" in the Legion.  Is that go through the recruit phase, and then have some sort of contract time, as far as being Private for awhile?  Once you are out, can you come back for another "stint" for a time?

Would the .5 be additive?  So the well-dressed noble partisan that is/has been a member of the levy would have more social status than a different well-dressed noble partisan (with a same ssocial status noble)?  How about that vs someone who had a "stint" in the Legions?

Are the social status increases for levy and Legion permanent lifelong, or do they only apply while you are actively in the levy or Legion?

No citizen is required to join the levy! But why wouldn't you offer up your service for the Sun King? Do you have something to hide? Perhaps an interrogation is in order.

During the run up to death-dealing action, an up-swell in patriotic fervor would no doubt lead to many individuals actually joining the levy!

But, I believe as with all things - if someone wished to end their patriotic duty, a Templar could release them, perhaps with some symbolic exchange of their service.

As for 'additive' increases to a person's social standing - its important not to get too tied down with the social standing chart as being a monolithic/unchanging thing - social standing is fluid and depends on lots of factors as well as the context of a given interaction where social standing is deemed important. Asking to codify every possible permutation of status, standing and bearing/respect is impossible. Everything we provide on the subject is to give you a guideline and show you how the virtual world will react. It's to help you make a Tuluki that recognizes the lay of social power in society. It's shorthand for the cultural norms of Tuluk.

So, while different factors - being well groomed/presentable, being a noble partisan, being ex-military - can be said to all bump a commoner's standing, these 'bonuses' are all tied to the virtual world: Good appearance is tied to the desirable status of being noble, noble partisanhood demonstrates trust, reliability and political association, military service represents duty, patriotism and indoctrination into the chief instrument of the Templarate.

[Nyr]

Can a non-citizen join the levies?

Given that Tuluk had to deal with spies in deep cover sabotaging things, I don't think they're really keen on non-citizens joining at this time.  That may change over time (it's actually a way we were considering for citizenship--service guarantees citizenship) but for now that's the way it is.