Tea Culture of the Known

[Barsook]

Good point.  Everyone just loves booze.

[LauraMars]

I would find it really handy if the areas' different tea cultures were included in the areas' different cultural helpfile docs, like the differences in clothing styles.  Provided that there are differences.  As well as differences in food culture and other drink culture, to the extent that exists.

Food culture, drink culture, music and instrument culture, clothing styles, architectural styles and furniture preferences...I could go on all day.  I'd love to have all these things fleshed out for both cities in a document of their own.  I'd be willing to write something up if staff wanted to review it, but I dunno if there would be much interest in that project.

I'd hop on board the fleshing-out project train.

I love the little details like that.  They really make the game come to life.

There are a lot of little details that are unique to northern/southern culture already, but they aren't written down anywhere.

[Barzalene]

I would find it really handy if the areas' different tea cultures were included in the areas' different cultural helpfile docs, like the differences in clothing styles.  Provided that there are differences.  As well as differences in food culture and other drink culture, to the extent that exists.

Food culture, drink culture, music and instrument culture, clothing styles, architectural styles and furniture preferences...I could go on all day.  I'd love to have all these things fleshed out for both cities in a document of their own.  I'd be willing to write something up if staff wanted to review it, but I dunno if there would be much interest in that project.

In 2003 (I think) We did a huge furniture project. We wrote awesome items and information on how styles differed. But I think people voted with their feet. It didn't stick.

[LauraMars]

I would find it really handy if the areas' different tea cultures were included in the areas' different cultural helpfile docs, like the differences in clothing styles.  Provided that there are differences.  As well as differences in food culture and other drink culture, to the extent that exists.

Food culture, drink culture, music and instrument culture, clothing styles, architectural styles and furniture preferences...I could go on all day.  I'd love to have all these things fleshed out for both cities in a document of their own.  I'd be willing to write something up if staff wanted to review it, but I dunno if there would be much interest in that project.

In 2003 (I think) We did a huge furniture project. We wrote awesome items and information on how styles differed. But I think people voted with their feet. It didn't stick.

I remember finding that forum thread (maybe?) randomly and thinking it was really cool.  To be honest I think visibility was part of the problem.  Not everyone reads the forums, and I don't think it was ever made into "official" documentation.

[Suhuy]

At the moment I live in the Middle East and part of my job requires performing an Arabic coffee service for customers. We had to learn lots of fun little details about the tradition during training and we have to stick to the rules quite rigorously. For example, when we enter the room we have a small stack of handle-less ceramic cups in our right hand and click them together to indicate the start of the service, the coffee pot is held in the left hand and never the right, it's often served with dates to aid digestion, only 1/3 of the cup is filled as a polite way of indicating it will be refilled whenever desired (where as if you fill it all the way it's kind of like saying "Here, there's more than enough in that cup now so you won't have to ask me again), etc. It would certainly be nice to see a few small (Zalanthan-appropriate) details similar to these incorporated in game.

And tea does seem pretty ubiquitous on Zalanthas; you can find it in Allanak, Tuluk, amongst different tribes, there is even an "Elvish tea" found in the 'Rinth. Without a presently defined (documented) tea culture in any specific location right now, however, I would caution that any starting tea culture begin from scratch, rather than writing up a document that states this is how people have done it for countless generations, or that it dates back to the earliest days of the old merchant caravans, etc. I've harped on this a gazillion times in the past but when Tuluk instituted its tattoo culture it was presented as if it were something that had existed for hundreds of years and stretched back to its origins at the founding of the Gol Krathu, which flew directly in the face of anyone who had had a character in the days of the Rebellion or Old Tuluk, when there was no actual (documented) tattoo culture to speak of. Why didn't Northern rebels or even the NPC templars which you saw back then have Tuluki tattoos? Because there really was no such thing back then! It's just nicer to see things develop naturally in game, rather than forcibly being inserted into the story line.

[Drayab]

You know, we have that player collaboration board...

If we want to see a tea culture, we need a set of guidelines and a critical mass of people willing to give them a shot. I'd be willing to adopt something in principle, but I'm wondering what you guys have in mind.

Maybe tea is something used as part of a 'civilized' business  deal?
Maybe tea has some special significance for people who are sizing up each other as possible mates?
Maybe different teas send different messages? For example, kanjel means 'relax' while blackstem means 'time to get to work.'

Just some ideas off the top of my head.

[Suhuy]

Maybe tea is something used as part of a 'civilized' business  deal?

Not to diss you with my disagreement here or anything, but I think this is the sort of real world (even Western) misunderstanding about things which I would genuinely NOT like to see incorporated in game. A lot of people might hear the word tea and expect you to show up wearing a summer frock and be holding a bouquet of daffodils to bring to your unicorn. But that's just the old school posh image of tea which traditional Britain invokes. The reality of tea is much, much different.

For anyone who has an opportunity to visit Japan, a must do on your itinerary there is to attend a Japanese tea ceremony. It's incredibly in depth, on a level far surpassing my previous post about Arabic coffee traditions. And you know who pushed the present day tea culture into existence in Japan? A Japanese WARLORD named Hideyoshi Toyatomi. Don't let modern day perceptions of old British women sitting in a sewing circle daintily sipping tea decide your opinion on how tea should function in game. If there's elvish tea in the 'Rinth even we can assume some pretty badass cutthroats out there are drinking the stuff. And maybe, just maybe, there's a culture behind it, a measure of respect for the beverage such that it exists even in the lowest dredges of society. Ever seen the movie Midnight Express based on the true story of an American imprisoned in Turkey during the 1970s? They had tea in that prison and it was a pretty big deal for the inmates there. And they were by no means softies, mind you. These were murderers and rapists and general scoundrels. I'd also like to add here the concept of culture need not necessarily imply sophistication. I think the more stereotypical player out there if asked which part of the game should have a "tea culture" would mindlessly say that Oh, Tuluk should! Because, you know, Tuluk is seen as somehow "cultured". Barbarians in ancient times had culture. Neanderthals had a culture of their own even. And tea is a drink consisting of boiled water and one of various types of plants. You don't have to be some soft dandy to appreciate or even have customs surrounding the drinking of tea.

If you want to develop a tea culture in game, like I said before, start it naturally. Don't submit a document to staff with a bunch of malarkey stating how the custom has been around forever. Try to popularize its consumption by having your character drink it regularly. Maybe start doing something like regularly saying it's bad luck to drink tea from anything other than a stone container and see if that popularizes. Eventually, some day down the road, it's become a Northern/Southern/Tribal/Whatever tradition that tea is drunk from stone cups (or whatever nifty little cultural application you wish to pursue). But there's no reason you have to be some sophisticated, high-class individual to pursue a tea culture. Whoever wrote the Elvish tea in the 'Rinth long ago certainly didn't have dainty little Legolas the Elf images in his head when he created it, yet for all we know there's a culture surrounding the beverage which the virtual elves IN THE GHETTO indulge in. Just my two cents on the matter.

[Lizzie]

Re: what Suhuy said:

That's summarizing everything I've been saying about it very nicely. We're asking you all to please NOT develop customs and cultures here on the GDB. Develop them in game.

[Drayab]

My take on inventing a tea culture is practical. It needs to be something that people can easily incorporate into roleplay scenes that already occur. Asking people to have scenes wholly devoted to the tea is a tall order compared to asking them to introduce tea, as a new flavor, to the scenes they already have. For example, I've participated in scenes in the Lucky Ghatti where the tea was used to bring a sense of civilization to the conversation, both in interactions with the upper castes and with other commoners. Yes, it clearly borrows from the idea of posh British people enjoying tea and being fancy, but I had fun with it and presumably so did my partners. They were unique little scenes.

I, on the other hand, am saying that if people want to see this actually happen, it's going to take an enterprising player to post some guidelines on the player collaboration board! 

Or roll up a dwarf with the focus of spreading a tea culture across the Known. That would be infinitely cooler, but you know he'll just get eaten by a scrab many years before his time.

[BadSkeelz]

The best part of incorporating tea in to civilized discussion is that it allows you to throw a scalding liquid in to someone's face at short notice.

[yoink]

Does tea exist as a coded item, outside of the drink?
It could be interesting to have a PC tea merchant, desperately striving to spread his beloved beverage of choice across the Known.

[Patuk]

I like Suhuy's posts. I really, really do.

[valeria]

Does tea exist as a coded item, outside of the drink?
It could be interesting to have a PC tea merchant, desperately striving to spread his beloved beverage of choice across the Known.

There are teapots and plants that can be turned into tea.

See help still for more infos.

[Lizzie]

Does tea exist as a coded item, outside of the drink?
It could be interesting to have a PC tea merchant, desperately striving to spread his beloved beverage of choice across the Known.

No, there exists no such coded plant as tea in the game. There are herbs that can be made into infusions, but none are leaves from a plant called tea like there is in real life.

The drink "tea" and the device called "teapots", in game, are anachronystic. The device itself isn't - just its name.

[valeria]

Does tea exist as a coded item, outside of the drink?
It could be interesting to have a PC tea merchant, desperately striving to spread his beloved beverage of choice across the Known.

No, there exists no such coded plant as tea in the game. There are herbs that can be made into infusions, but none are leaves from a plant called tea like there is in real life.

The drink "tea" and the device called "teapots", in game, are anachronystic. The device itself isn't - just its name.

I strongly disagree.  The definition of tea includes any kinds of leaves, shrubs, or flowers infused in hot water and used as a beverage or medicine.  There are plenty of those in Zalanthas.  So I would argue that, yes, tea exists in Zalanthas.  Whether the plant camellia sinensis exists doesn't really determine whether there is tea. 

[LauraMars]

The problem with starting a "tea culture" in game is that the longevity and consistency of such "culture" will be limited to the characters currently practicing it.

Tea already exists in the game.  What I'm interested in knowing is what the vnpcs in either city think of tea - they must think something.  There are documents that tell us what the vnpcs in either city think of fashion.  A paragraph or two describing facts about and attitudes towards tea, an existing beverage, is not nearly as drastic as implementing a rigid and complex tattoo culture that was never there before.

Painstakingly writing out a large document filled with elaborate tea ceremonies is not, I think, what is being proposed here, nor is it necessary.  There currently isn't even a tea helpfile.  A document telling us what types of teas are preferred in what cities and what benefits each variety is meant to be infused with would add flavor to the gameworld.

Here, I'll show you what I mean with this fake and totally unapproved document (seriously, new players finding this in 2016 [and pedants right now], I just made this up. THIS IS NOT REAL. THIS IS JUST AN EXAMPLE. Ok carry on.)

===========================

TEA:

Tea is an important beverage in the world of Zalanthas.  It is consumed by people of all races and castes in both cities.  Tea can be used in many social situations - among groups of friends, at the start or end of business deals, or simply taken alone.  Tea is slightly more common in the north than the south, and is a popular drink among bards.  For the impoverished, tea is a way to add flavor to water that may be contaminated and dirty.  For the upper class, tea made with rare or expensive herbs is considered a mark of status.  Some types of tea are used as a stimulating drink in the mornings, and some teas may help the nausea that comes after a night of heavy drinking.  There are many varieties and flavors of tea on Zalanthas.

Blackstem tea.  This is an earthy tea with a minty aftertaste that serves as a mild stimulant.  Helps headaches.

Dwarfflower tea. Some catalyzing property in this tea is rumored to enhance the effects of mul mix and make childbearing less likely, though taken alone it does nothing.

Kanjel tea. This is a delicate tea with a complex flavor that is favored by the wealthy.  Especially enjoyed by southern nobility.

and so on and so forth.

[Barsook]

I think this is what we need.

[Lizzie]

The problem with starting a "tea culture" in game is that the longevity and consistency of such "culture" will be limited to the characters currently practicing it.

Tea already exists in the game.  What I'm interested in knowing is what the vnpcs in either city think of tea - they must think something.  There are documents that tell us what the vnpcs in either city think of fashion.  A paragraph or two describing facts about and attitudes towards tea, an existing beverage, is not nearly as drastic as implementing a rigid and complex tattoo culture that was never there before.

What do VNPCs think about escru milk? What do they think about whisky? What do they think about beer? What do they think about ale? What do they think about scrab steak? What do they think about...

I think you get the idea.

I think a very very few people are trying to turn one type of food into a big deal. I don't know why. It hasn't ever been a big deal and in fact, when a player went through all the trouble to create a "big deal" of it (The Silver Ginka) it was a novelty for a very short time, and then died into "that place you pass on the way to the end of the road."

[Qzzrbl]

What do VNPCs think about escru milk? What do they think about whisky? What do they think about beer? What do they think about ale? What do they think about scrab steak? What do they think about...

.... Somehow these questions are invalid?

[Lizzie]

What do VNPCs think about escru milk? What do they think about whisky? What do they think about beer? What do they think about ale? What do they think about scrab steak? What do they think about...

.... Somehow these questions are invalid?

That's pretty much my point. In response to LauraMars, who ponders what the VNPCs would think about tea, I ponder - what would they think about any type of food or drink? If no one cares what they'd think about other mundane, easily-accessible, un-rare, ordinary, commoner-affordable foods or drinks, why would anyone care what the VNPCs would think about tea? What is it to these very few players, that makes tea something they feel VNPCs, NPCs, and PCs in the game would have a whole culture around, worth documenting?

[Qzzrbl]

We've got documentation on various clothing styles and even what kinds of food spices are popular among who and where.

I don't see why not tea?

Or food, or drink.

I'd actually like to see what the general NPC/VNPC thoughts are on all these things, now that I think about it.

[LauraMars]

If no one cares what they'd think about other mundane, easily-accessible, un-rare, ordinary, commoner-affordable foods or drinks, why would anyone care what the VNPCs would think about tea?

Actually, I care.  I like all of those questions.

Having a cultural food document (what kinds of dishes are popular in Allanak, Tuluk, and elsewhere) and a more fleshed out alcohol document would be amazing.

Little facts like that can make the world feel very real.  I love Sanvean's "seasonings" documentation, for example.  Is it necessary to play the game?  Of course not.  It won't help you kill a scrab or raise your parry skill or advance socially.  But it's full of nuanced details that feel very vibrant and factual and can help immerse players in the world when they see examples of it in game.  

If you don't care about the small details of Zalanthas and how it operates, that's cool. But there's no need to harangue those who are interested.  It doesn't hurt you.

[RogueGunslinger]

It hurts her if she wants the documents to be one way, but they get written in a way she does not like. As it is the culture in-game is whatever its made into, in-game. I can see how people might rather that evolve naturally instead of being forced in. For instance I hated your example simply because it alluded to Tea being more common in the north and a thing that bards tend to do.

I'd hate it less if that arose from actualy things that happen in the game, instead of just because the person writing the docs thinks it should be that way.

[Qzzrbl]

If only all the docs were written the way we wanted them to be.

[LauraMars]

It hurts her if she wants the documents to be one way, but they get written in a way she does not like. As it is the culture in-game is whatever its made into, in-game. I can see how people might rather that evolve naturally instead of being forced in. For instance I hated your example simply because it alluded to Tea being more common in the north and a thing that bards tend to do.

I'd hate it less if that arose from actualy things that happen in the game, instead of just because the person writing the docs thinks it should be that way.

Well, as you know, that example was (as I painstakingly disclaimed) completely fake, and made up.  However, given that there is actually a teahouse in the Poet's Circle (where bards live) filled with more tea varieties than can be found anywhere else in the game, bards liking tea seemed like a reasonable conclusion to draw.