How to make clans more appealing?

[Desertman]

Um.  Yeah. Except what if what the house needs are not things fun to hunt? Unless of course we give beasts diamond teeth and make them guard trees.

I'm not sure what your argument here is.

[Barzalene]

I'm not arguing. I'm expressing a concern.

[Desertman]

I'm not arguing. I'm expressing a concern.

That's what I meant.

I'm not sure what your concern really is.

That sometimes you will have to do things that aren't fun if you are a House hunter?

[Delirium]

I've had characters with gemstones - diamonds, sapphires, rubies - try to sell them to Kadius.

There was no interest. In valuable gemstones. From the premiere merchant house who deals in luxuries.

That's silly. And almost OOCly jarring.

If the focus is on forcing PCs to stay at the bottom rungs of society - "nobody is special and if you are special, you get stored" - then it only makes sense to flesh out the bottom rungs of society so that PCs can actually contribute toward it. Feel like they matter. Make a difference.

Maybe all those virtual crafters are busy filling orders for all those virtual PCs.

[Desertman]

I've had characters with gemstones - diamonds, sapphires, rubies - try to sell them to Kadius.

There was no interest. In valuable gemstones. From the premiere merchant house who deals in luxuries.

That's silly.

This probably has a lot to do with two things.

A) Those high end items that would include these super high end gems aren't craftable by PC's. Keeping in mind being able to actually get these high end gems is a relatively new thing. The items that would use them have existed for a very long time. So, it is highly probable they aren't craftable. Kadian PC's don't need your IC'ly found gems. Their gem items are staff loaded virtually.

B) These "rare" gems aren't really rare. I'm not sure why they aren't harder to find, but they need to be harder to find. They either need a lower find rate percentage, or the areas where they can be found need to be pushed out a lot further and be a lot more dangerous.


But, even if those high end items that use those high end gems were craftable, the Kadian merchants who can craft those items have no idea what the recipes are or what the items are to even attempt to craft them. Which takes us back to square one.

[Delirium]

We're in agreement, Desertman.

I can't believe I just said that.



Anyway - I know that shifting toward crafting recipes instead of loading items would be horrendously time consuming, but I do think the payoff would be very worth it in the long run, both for the health of clan membership and for the ability to PCs to feel like they can make a tangible contribution.

Imagine if staff didn't need to spend time each week going through orders and loading items!

[Desertman]

 

Imagine if staff didn't need to spend time each week going through orders and loading items!

Yup, a lot of work on the front end for an overall decrease in workload in the long run.

[ShaLeah]

I've had characters with gemstones - diamonds, sapphires, rubies - try to sell them to Kadius.

There was no interest. In valuable gemstones. From the premiere merchant house who deals in luxuries.

That's silly and almost OOCly jarring.

This.

I understand that right now you don't have an "active" jeweler (which should never be said) and that you may have a surplus of diamonds (really?!?) but unless you are purposefully KEEPING THE LITTLE MAN DOWN (which I am ALL for) you the Kadian/Salarri/Kuraci should spread that wealth like ginka sauce on the bouncy buttocks of a supple pleasure slave.

Imagine if staff didn't need to spend time each week going through orders and loading items!

Yup, a lot of work on the front end for an overall decrease in workload in the long run.

I'd be willing to volunteer time to go through items and make them craftable.

[Barzalene]

You can't have it both ways. You can't have tension and conflict between GMH  and indies and also have cooperation. I feel bad that people in the GMH family roles cannot win. Peoe complain on the boards the the houses don't do enough to shut down the independents and flex their muscles. They also complain that its not realistic to refuse to buy from outsiders.

You can't have it both ways.

[Delirium]

Buying raw goods from outsiders at rock bottom prices just makes sense. The more you have, the less everyone else has.

I think 'actually wanting to buy raw materials' and 'keeping the indies down' are two rather separate issues.

[Barzalene]

Buying raw goods from outsiders at rock bottom prices just makes sense. The more you have, the less everyone else has.

I think 'actually wanting to buy raw materials' and 'keeping the indies down' are two rather separate issues.

But you have hunters to supply you
Hunters who won't rent a warehouse, blow a Templar  and hire crafter's.

[Delirium]

I'm not trying to argue with you - it was just an example of why I feel that it would be nice if the Merchant Houses actually had a desire to acquire raw materials that are considered to be ICly rare and valuable. Instead of getting the psuedo-OOC "no thanks" due to not having crafters or storage space.

To use my original example - if Kadius doesn't buy the diamonds, where do they end up? In some piddly nobody's pocket, making THEM money instead.

[Barzalene]

I'm not trying to argue with you - it was just an example of why I feel that it would be nice if the Merchant Houses actually had a desire to acquire raw materials that are considered to be ICly rare and valuable. Instead of getting the psuedo-OOC "no thanks" due to not having crafters or storage space.

I don't want to argue either. Sorry. Didn't mean to come off as an ass.

[FantasyWriter]

As a gmh leader with active hunters, I would only buy items at a very low price (think: outsourcing to China).  

[Barzalene]

The thing is, when I have played sponsored roles I've tried very hard to make sure that my PC would have goals that are specifically meant to benefit some and disadvantage others. It is an artificial economy. And I think there is always an ooc aspect to each decision. People just have to make the best flawed decisions at any given moment.

[Delirium]

As a gmh leader with active hunters, I would only buy items at a very low price (think: outsourcing to China).  

Which is exactly the way it should be. I think my point is getting lost in the fixating on the example of Kadius being disinterested in rare gems.

The point is to create an actual, coded, constant need for hunters and crafters.

No it still wouldn't be perfect, but if you sit and think about it, people like to feel like they matter, or they get fed up and/or bored and/or disenchanted with their role. Even when they're the little guys. And there's not much support, currently, for making those little guys actually matter to their little area of the game.

[Synthesis]

Man, some of you sound like you are so bad at business.  No wonder you have such a terrible time playing GMH leaders.  Maybe try sticking to the pure politicking roles?

[Barzalene]

Man, some of you sound like you are so bad at business.  No wonder you have such a terrible time playing GMH leaders.  Maybe try sticking to the pure politicking roles?

Well.  Thanks. That was inspiring.

[ShaLeah]

Man, some of you sound like you are so bad at business.  No wonder you have such a terrible time playing GMH leaders.  Maybe try sticking to the pure politicking roles?

Well.  Thanks. That was inspiring.

Thank the Highlord the only ones GMH leader types have to please are the staff running said clans!

* ShaLeah chuckles.

More money for GMH leaders!

[Dalmeth]

I've had characters with gemstones - diamonds, sapphires, rubies - try to sell them to Kadius.

There was no interest. In valuable gemstones. From the premiere merchant house who deals in luxuries.

That's silly. And almost OOCly jarring.

If the focus is on forcing PCs to stay at the bottom rungs of society - "nobody is special and if you are special, you get stored" - then it only makes sense to flesh out the bottom rungs of society so that PCs can actually contribute toward it. Feel like they matter. Make a difference.

Maybe all those virtual crafters are busy filling orders for all those virtual PCs.

It's almost as jarring as real life retailers who won't let you sell your old junk.  I mean, they have plenty of shelf space, right?  It's valuable stuff!

Sorting such goods received from outside tends to be the part where the process breaks down.  If the item doesn't have a place to immediately go and be used, it has a tendency of lingering forever.

So it's a realistic concern.

[KankWhisperer]

Man, some of you sound like you are so bad at business.  No wonder you have such a terrible time playing GMH leaders.  Maybe try sticking to the pure politicking roles?

Game economy is not modelled on the real world or anything so what's that matter?

[Lizzie]

Why in the world would I want to spend hours upon hours of time to find 10 diamonds, to sell to a Kadian for 100 sids each...

when I can spend just 1 or 2 hours finding a diamond, and selling it at one of the shops for 1000?

I've also tried selling fancy gems to Kadius. One merchant said they'd get back to me. They never did. The other asked me to come up with a price. I low-balled it based on what I knew I could get *without* the haggle skill, and asked 100 sids less than the shop offered. The merchant expressed a marked lack of interest. The third just flat out told me they didn't need any.

There's also the issue of "why should I spend sids on fancy gems, when I have no orders coming in for clothing/jewelry/accessories that need those gems?" Or maybe they don't need your 10 diamonds, but they *do* need 2 rubies. And you simply don't have any.

At least with the shops, you can get an idea of what they have, vs. what they're willing to buy. If they have "a couple" of diamonds, you at least know they haven't hit their capacity yet. They might not have the sids to pay out today, but they had it for *someone* so if you're dilligent, eventually it'll be your turn.

With Kadius, it doesn't matter. If the PC doesn't need them, or doesn't like you, or can't afford them, or favors someone else's grebbing attempts, then you won't be selling those diamonds to Kadius, period.

[Malken]

Man, some of you sound like you are so bad at business.  No wonder you have such a terrible time playing GMH leaders.  Maybe try sticking to the pure politicking roles?

Game economy is not modelled on the real world or anything so what's that matter?

If it was I'd be a fucking millionaire.

That's like if you were a lawyer or a doctor and you were paid $50 a month, but you could also make 50$ an hour by going to the nearest garbage lot and sifted through it for as long as you wanted and then selling what you find to the pawn shop at an insane price.

A funny thing that tends to happen often enough to my PC. When I find a dead body and sell the relatively average armor I find on the body, I tend to end up with about 2-3 months easy of my clan pay in one shot.

And Lizzie is right, why would you bother selling diamonds to a Kadius who might be looking down at you and just offer you 25 sids per diamond when there's an indie NPC that will buy them for something like 200+ sids per? The fact that said NPC is constantly loaded with every type of possible pretty stones an hour after a crash speaks well of how more and more players are learning how to make money on their own and with relative ease.

[Desertman]

I'm not trying to argue with you - it was just an example of why I feel that it would be nice if the Merchant Houses actually had a desire to acquire raw materials that are considered to be ICly rare and valuable. Instead of getting the psuedo-OOC "no thanks" due to not having crafters or storage space.

I don't want to argue either. Sorry. Didn't mean to come off as an ass.

I don't even care about them buying my indies raw goods.

That isn't even the discussion. It was just an example of a lack of realistic supply and demand.

They don't even want the gems/materials like this that my House employee hunters bring in because they can't use them.

That is an even bigger problem.

[Desertman]

Man, some of you sound like you are so bad at business.  No wonder you have such a terrible time playing GMH leaders.  Maybe try sticking to the pure politicking roles?

This may be the only time I have ever seen Synthesis post in a thread where they contributed nothing of value.

It is jarring on an OOC level.

You are super smart. I find your posts to be very informative and useful almost every single time.

Please, more of that, less of this.