Whores. How should you feel about the profession on Zalanthas?

[Dar]

Personally. In my opinion, we should leave everyone their own choice how to think of a whore. And leave whores ways to make sure to prove some people wrong and some people right. Some whores will group up, band up, organize, and create a union. It sounds like a joke, but it isnt, because that is exactly the method they keep themselves safe and powerful. Unless they work on to some one singular individual who is influential and powerful, but then the whores are on their way to becoming concubines. In a way, whores and bards are very similar in their traits and characteristics, as well as methods.

I value whores immensely via ooc stand point. Because they are an incredibly useful tool in people's society, either by adding color, or an actual function (of which there are many). Often enough, during my criminal roles, I value a good whore, more then a skilled muscle. Not because they are good spies, even though they are. Not because they're desperate enough to do things others wouldnt do, which they should be, but so very rarely are. But because they add color, much like bards oughta do.

[Evoru]

they add color, much like bards oughta do.

To be honest, when I first started playing Arm I was a little confused that whores weren't actually a sub-set of bards. I mean, you have Circles that pretty much just teach nobles how to have manners, so would it be so strange to add another Circle that "entertains" in the way a whore does? Maybe THOSE whores could then, rightfully, be called courtesans. This could differentiate between the whore who just lays on her back (although good luck making sid if that's all you offer customers) and the whore who knows how to converse, dance, recite poetry, and liven up parties.

Whores can also be incredibly dangerous, especially in a political climate like Tuluk, or even in Allanak if they're bedding a noble. They surely get plenty of pillow talk from their regulars, and beloved whores probably have a fair amount of influence over their clients. They can probably also call in favors.

[KankWhisperer]

I'll have to say I sort of agree with ShaLeah which makes me die a little on the inside.

People look down on whores because a lot of people look down on mudsex in my opinion.
When I had rich characters or was 'byn sergeants or both, I would notice no one would pay the whore and they weren't always a filthy 'rinthi whore. I would basically offer to pay for free for the men as a benefit of being one of my men. No takers. You couldn't even get strangers to take a free kank. I think there was one guy who took the offer.

[Patuk]

I once paid a whore so she'd kank a gemmer bugging my character to no end. It worked, too

[Lizzie]

Since I prefer to fade, or assume the sex is going on virtually, any of my characters who employ whores, employ virtual whores. And pay for them with virtual sids. And enjoy themselves on virtual time, when I'm not logged in.

[Kalai]

Since I prefer to fade, or assume the sex is going on virtually, any of my characters who employ whores, employ virtual whores. And pay for them with virtual sids. And enjoy themselves on virtual time, when I'm not logged in.

Makes sense, but folk, remember you can fade with a PC prostitute as well. Just don't pay him/her in virtual sids if you do so. 

[Desertman]

It probably comes down to the character in question, and not the whore in question the more I think about it.

My nice guys are going to treat whores like anyone else. Good to see you. Let's have a tumble. Thanks for the service. See you later.

My bad guys (hired killers, mercenaries, raiders, rough and tumbles who make a living hurting other people) are going to see whores as nothing more than a hole to use and a critter to spooge on, which of course, garners no respect from them.

Seeing as how a lot of the playerbase makes their living being "less than moral folks" this might explain why so many seem to have this outlook on whores as well.


(Also, I have never used the word "spooge" until this thread. I have no idea why I started.)

[spicemustflow]

I've never heard of "spooge" before reading this thread, so thanks for educating me Dman

[Refugee]

I've never heard of "spooge" before reading this thread, so thanks for educating me Dman

Me either...

[Desertman]

I believe it was said by Eric Cartman in the episode of Southpark where he is giving handies to Ben Affleck with his hand puppet of Jennifer Lopez.

[joyofdiscord]

It's a gross term used by gross people, and in this case specifically used to contribute to a dehumanizing of receptive sex partners.

The nice guy/mean guy taxonomy of PC types also strikes me as a boring way to roleplay.  Heaven forbid our PCs have different, personally and culturally appropriate responses to the wide variety of colorful PCs inhabiting this grand world Zalanthas.  Instead because GROG STEAL, THEREFORE GROG HATE WHORE.  The logical leap there is baffling and sleazy.


There is only a small minority of prostitutes in Zalanthas that fit Desertman's very pejorative definition of "whore," a hopeless, unskilled "hole to be used."  These are the utterly destitute, rinthis, mutants, deformed, disabled, crippled, starved, who likely have a high mortality rate in their "profession."  They exist, and perhaps they are represented by PCs from time to time, just like there are some totally hopeless wannabe grebbers that go out and get ganked with high frequency.

However, many or most of the prostitute PCs you are likely to run across in game, the ones who can afford food and water on a regular basis, maybe an apartment, and so on, essentially the Zalanthan working class, they are already well beyond the "hole to be used" status.   By having those basic resources and defending them, particularly in the situations of vulnerability inherent to their profession, implies that they have a great deal of business sense, ability to defend themselves, take care of themselves, etc.  Desertman seems to think the only way to be on par with any other commoner citizen as a prostitute is to be part of the tiny minority of upper class courtesans.  This is the fundamental error,  and it's based on an out-of-place stigmatization of prostitutes as opposed to any other profession, and receptive sex partners in particular (as evinced by Desertman's unsettling fascination with "spooge"), which is itself rooted in (duh) misogyny,homophobia,etc.

[Desertman]

Those are some very nice unsubstantiated opinions you have.

You are welcome to them.

[Riev]

If a whore isnt a trained Kuraci or a House sponsored Courtesan/slave they are as useleaa as an indie hunter. Sure they may be good at what they do but who cares? Theyre just a whore with no training or future. Even an Ex-Kuraci might have the skills needed but is otherwise useless while unaffiliated. So. Someone being just a whore is like someone being just a grebber. Im sorry some people dont see your PC whores they way you feel they should. Prove to them you can be someone of importance. Have your clients mess them up.

There have been few good whores and the only ones I dont like are ones that think they are above you because they kank a soldier. Ive never gtebbed for a soldier and got preferential treatment like a whore.

tldr is: If you dont like it, be the change. Ask staff for help.

[Hicksville Hoochie]

If a whore isnt a trained Kuraci or a House sponsored Courtesan/slave they are as useleaa as an indie hunter. Sure they may be good at what they do but who cares? Theyre just a whore with no training or future. Even an Ex-Kuraci might have the skills needed but is otherwise useless while unaffiliated. So. Someone being just a whore is like someone being just a grebber. Im sorry some people dont see your PC whores they way you feel they should. Prove to them you can be someone of importance. Have your clients mess them up.

There have been few good whores and the only ones I dont like are ones that think they are above you because they kank a soldier. Ive never gtebbed for a soldier and got preferential treatment like a whore.

tldr is: If you dont like it, be the change. Ask staff for help.

To be fair, I don't think the issue is folks saying their indy-whore should be held in high regard. I think the argument is more or less that whoring should not be looked down on any more than any other profession, a problem that tends to exist in the game world.

If a whore, a baker, and a grebber walk into a bar it'd possibly be a rather odd thing for people to be like "Ohay, a baker! Ohay, a grebber! Ewww, a whore!" The whore should be getting her own Ohays too.

[Twilight]

Just in regards to being s spooge basket or hole or whatever...

Only 50% of Zalanthas whores are female.

[RogueGunslinger]

Males have plenty of holes to receive spooge in too, just saying. Can we drop the misogyny/sexist straw-man?

[Lizzie]

If a whore isnt a trained Kuraci or a House sponsored Courtesan/slave they are as useleaa as an indie hunter. Sure they may be good at what they do but who cares? Theyre just a whore with no training or future. Even an Ex-Kuraci might have the skills needed but is otherwise useless while unaffiliated. So. Someone being just a whore is like someone being just a grebber. Im sorry some people dont see your PC whores they way you feel they should. Prove to them you can be someone of importance. Have your clients mess them up.

There have been few good whores and the only ones I dont like are ones that think they are above you because they kank a soldier. Ive never gtebbed for a soldier and got preferential treatment like a whore.

tldr is: If you dont like it, be the change. Ask staff for help.

To be fair, I don't think the issue is folks saying their indy-whore should be held in high regard. I think the argument is more or less that whoring should not be looked down on any more than any other profession, a problem that tends to exist in the game world.

If a whore, a baker, and a grebber walk into a bar it'd possibly be a rather odd thing for people to be like "Ohay, a baker! Ohay, a grebber! Ewww, a whore!" The whore should be getting her own Ohays too.

Ohay a baker can feed me - I need to eat, therefore, the baker is held in high regard, comparatively speaking.
Ohay a grebber can provide me with the raw materials I need to make things, which is what I use to earn money, which I use to pay the baker! The grebber I hold in high regard, comparatively speaking. Somewhat less than a baker, since I could find other means of income.
Ohay a whore can provide me with - absolutely nothing that I need. And I have to pay for it, if I want it. No regard.

[Twilight]

Males have plenty of holes to receive spooge in too, just saying. Can we drop the misogyny/sexist straw-man?

My point was 50% of whores would be hired by females...

If a whore isnt a trained Kuraci or a House sponsored Courtesan/slave they are as useleaa as an indie hunter. Sure they may be good at what they do but who cares? Theyre just a whore with no training or future. Even an Ex-Kuraci might have the skills needed but is otherwise useless while unaffiliated. So. Someone being just a whore is like someone being just a grebber. Im sorry some people dont see your PC whores they way you feel they should. Prove to them you can be someone of importance. Have your clients mess them up.

There have been few good whores and the only ones I dont like are ones that think they are above you because they kank a soldier. Ive never gtebbed for a soldier and got preferential treatment like a whore.

tldr is: If you dont like it, be the change. Ask staff for help.

To be fair, I don't think the issue is folks saying their indy-whore should be held in high regard. I think the argument is more or less that whoring should not be looked down on any more than any other profession, a problem that tends to exist in the game world.

If a whore, a baker, and a grebber walk into a bar it'd possibly be a rather odd thing for people to be like "Ohay, a baker! Ohay, a grebber! Ewww, a whore!" The whore should be getting her own Ohays too.

Ohay a baker can feed me - I need to eat, therefore, the baker is held in high regard, comparatively speaking.
Ohay a grebber can provide me with the raw materials I need to make things, which is what I use to earn money, which I use to pay the baker! The grebber I hold in high regard, comparatively speaking. Somewhat less than a baker, since I could find other means of income.
Ohay a whore can provide me with - absolutely nothing that I need. And I have to pay for it, if I want it. No regard.

That is you, personally.  I think the argument is from society's standpoint that is not the viewpoint.  There is no stigma attached to being a whore (and if you are treating them like there is, you are carrying it over from RL), they provide something useful, and it is considered a normal, non-discriminated against profession just like a baker or grebber.

[RogueGunslinger]

Honestly whores should be treated like drug dealers. A mix of fear, mutual exchange, and a little bit of FUCK YEAH I"M GETTING HIGH/FUCKED.

Males have plenty of holes to receive spooge in too, just saying. Can we drop the misogyny/sexist straw-man?

My point was 50% of whores would be hired by females...

Yeah I think we're agreeing?

[Hicksville Hoochie]

Ohay a baker can feed me - I need to eat, therefore, the baker is held in high regard, comparatively speaking.
Ohay a grebber can provide me with the raw materials I need to make things, which is what I use to earn money, which I use to pay the baker! The grebber I hold in high regard, comparatively speaking. Somewhat less than a baker, since I could find other means of income.
Ohay a whore can provide me with - absolutely nothing that I need. And I have to pay for it, if I want it. No regard.

But that in no way means that the profession should be looked down upon. Especially considering it services a large amount of people who -do- feel as if it is a need to them. Grebbers, while a big thing for PCs needing things, have no practical use to a massive portion of the city population. Joe Dungsweeper has no use for a grebber, where a whore would be much more valuable to him. Betty the baker has no need for another baker, where as a whore might be of use to her. Even in the real world, where it -is- looked down upon, whoring is still a rather massive industry(possibly a poor choice word for it), in which people spend tons of money on every year. Sex is apparently something a good wealth of people deem as a need, else it wouldn't be such a big thing.

Not to mention, that's basing it on a needful priority anyways. Some people use it as a recreational thing for fun, especially if they aren't exactly smooth enough to find free sex out there. Some higher ups use it as a reward to their subordinates.

[spicemustflow]

Need for sex can surpass other, more "important" needs.

[Cutthroat]

If a whore isnt a trained Kuraci or a House sponsored Courtesan/slave they are as useleaa as an indie hunter. Sure they may be good at what they do but who cares? Theyre just a whore with no training or future. Even an Ex-Kuraci might have the skills needed but is otherwise useless while unaffiliated. So. Someone being just a whore is like someone being just a grebber. Im sorry some people dont see your PC whores they way you feel they should. Prove to them you can be someone of importance. Have your clients mess them up.

There have been few good whores and the only ones I dont like are ones that think they are above you because they kank a soldier. Ive never gtebbed for a soldier and got preferential treatment like a whore.

tldr is: If you dont like it, be the change. Ask staff for help.

To be fair, I don't think the issue is folks saying their indy-whore should be held in high regard. I think the argument is more or less that whoring should not be looked down on any more than any other profession, a problem that tends to exist in the game world.

If a whore, a baker, and a grebber walk into a bar it'd possibly be a rather odd thing for people to be like "Ohay, a baker! Ohay, a grebber! Ewww, a whore!" The whore should be getting her own Ohays too.

Ohay a baker can feed me - I need to eat, therefore, the baker is held in high regard, comparatively speaking.
Ohay a grebber can provide me with the raw materials I need to make things, which is what I use to earn money, which I use to pay the baker! The grebber I hold in high regard, comparatively speaking. Somewhat less than a baker, since I could find other means of income.
Ohay a whore can provide me with - absolutely nothing that I need. And I have to pay for it, if I want it. No regard.

^ That reasoning doesn't completely hold up. Sure, you don't -need- a prostitute to have sex, and theoretically you don't even need to have sex at all.

You don't need a lot of things from a lot of people who offer things that are presumably unneeded, yet these people are held with at least some regard. Bards sell entertainment, the GMHs sell luxury goods. Yet these people get their regard not from what they have to offer from society per se, but rather their affiliation. For example, bards from Poet's Circle or House Fale are the real bards of their cities - other people claiming to be bards are wannabes at best and frauds unworthy of attention at worst.

Prostitutes fit into this reasoning in a similar way. A random prostitute working by themselves is a nobody, on the same level as a baker working by themselves or a grebber working by themselves. Their actual social status is the same as anyone else who is independent regardless of their occupation. Now, a single character could definitely value bakers above prostitutes because one offers yeast while the other offers yeast infections, but that isn't the "official" viewpoint nor is it backed up by documentation. So the end conclusion would be that how players' characters view prostitutes should be on a character-by-character basis, keeping in mind the examples set by the docs.

[FreeRangeVestric]

If a whore isnt a trained Kuraci or a House sponsored Courtesan/slave they are as useleaa as an indie hunter. Sure they may be good at what they do but who cares? Theyre just a whore with no training or future. Even an Ex-Kuraci might have the skills needed but is otherwise useless while unaffiliated. So. Someone being just a whore is like someone being just a grebber. Im sorry some people dont see your PC whores they way you feel they should. Prove to them you can be someone of importance. Have your clients mess them up.

There have been few good whores and the only ones I dont like are ones that think they are above you because they kank a soldier. Ive never gtebbed for a soldier and got preferential treatment like a whore.

tldr is: If you dont like it, be the change. Ask staff for help.

To be fair, I don't think the issue is folks saying their indy-whore should be held in high regard. I think the argument is more or less that whoring should not be looked down on any more than any other profession, a problem that tends to exist in the game world.

If a whore, a baker, and a grebber walk into a bar it'd possibly be a rather odd thing for people to be like "Ohay, a baker! Ohay, a grebber! Ewww, a whore!" The whore should be getting her own Ohays too.

Ohay a baker can feed me - I need to eat, therefore, the baker is held in high regard, comparatively speaking.
Ohay a grebber can provide me with the raw materials I need to make things, which is what I use to earn money, which I use to pay the baker! The grebber I hold in high regard, comparatively speaking. Somewhat less than a baker, since I could find other means of income.
Ohay a whore can provide me with - absolutely nothing that I need. And I have to pay for it, if I want it. No regard.

By this token, does your character (if they don't wear jewelry, for example) also look at the friendly-neighborhood jeweler at the tavern and say, "Ewww, a jeweler!", or pay -them- no regard?

[Red Ranger]

Just in regards to being s spooge basket or hole or whatever...

Only 50% of Zalanthas whores are female.

Also, 50% of Zalanthan Johns... are actually Janes and may not be looking for a spooge receptacle when they're hiring a sex worker.

Ohay a baker can feed me - I need to eat, therefore, the baker is held in high regard, comparatively speaking.
Ohay a grebber can provide me with the raw materials I need to make things, which is what I use to earn money, which I use to pay the baker! The grebber I hold in high regard, comparatively speaking. Somewhat less than a baker, since I could find other means of income.
Ohay a whore can provide me with - absolutely nothing that I need. And I have to pay for it, if I want it. No regard.

I've been wondering why professional athletes and entertainers are paid so poorly and get no respect IRL and why stay at home parents are so richly paid and highly respected.  And why the porn industry makes no money IRL.  Also why bards are so poorly paid and disrespected IC'ly.

[Narf]

If a whore isnt a trained Kuraci or a House sponsored Courtesan/slave they are as useleaa as an indie hunter. Sure they may be good at what they do but who cares? Theyre just a whore with no training or future. Even an Ex-Kuraci might have the skills needed but is otherwise useless while unaffiliated. So. Someone being just a whore is like someone being just a grebber. Im sorry some people dont see your PC whores they way you feel they should. Prove to them you can be someone of importance. Have your clients mess them up.

There have been few good whores and the only ones I dont like are ones that think they are above you because they kank a soldier. Ive never gtebbed for a soldier and got preferential treatment like a whore.

tldr is: If you dont like it, be the change. Ask staff for help.

I think my primary complaint would be that whores get treated worse than grebbers. This doesn't make any sense in a society where promiscuity isn't stigmatized much. I'd wager that most of the people complaining would be perfectly fine if whores were treated as being on par with grebbers.

The complaint is that they are being treated as lower than this.

For no reason.