Is barrier effective enough?

[Lizzie]

Or you know you could make it so psions are the only ones who can contact undetected. How does that screw them over?

The tall mundane man contacts your mind

think "yeah alright no big deal"

A foreign presence contacts your mind

think "OH FUCK"


Something like that?

But then you'd know that the tall mundane man is -not- a mindbender. We already know that SLKs are -not- mages, and there are only two desert elf tribes that are open for players...

And then we also know that several sponsored roles are mundane-only because that's how they're requested on the GDB..

There's a lot of OOC ways to determine what someone is NOT, already. Ruling out things simply by innocuous posts on the GDB, means we know that this person can -not- do x, y, or z to us ICly, because he is -not- a mindbender, or a mage...

Sometimes, that is information that makes things way too easy for us to abuse, whether intentionally or not, IG. Sometimes even that little bit of OOC knowledge can slip through into our RP even though we don't intend for it to.

This is one of the reasons why I think these discussions regarding what we want, or don't want, for mundanes to have regarding psionics, is not a good idea to have on the GDB.

I don't think it's a good idea to discuss anything on the GDB, that has anything to do with skills that belong to -any- "ic-senstitive info" guild/race/subguild/skillset.  Even if you're asking for mundanes to have it. Because, if non-mundanes already have it, no one is allowed to SAY so on the GDB, which makes discussions of this nature awkward at best.

[Timetwister]

How is that any different than the current system? I won't get into mechanics but you know if a psion is doing stuff to you. Either way it doesn't matter. It doesn't suddenly reveal anything great. So you know somebody -very- skilled with the way is in your head. Better barrier up.

[Rhyden]

Or you know you could make it so psions are the only ones who can contact undetected. How does that screw them over?

If psions had a skill to contact undetected, this idea would solve most issues addressed so far.

I like sdesc-revealing contact, or Seeker's anonymous idea. As long as the potential for way-sniffing is eliminated, I'm happy.

[MeTekillot]

Higher contact/barrier means you have a better chance of seeing someone's sdesc when they contact you. Make it only work 70-80% at maxed contact. Give psions special anon-contact ability or stealth contact.

[X-D]

Really...you should not be talking about what they may or may not get.

but the docs do say they are "masters of the way". I think it is safe to assume that somebody who is a MASTER of the way has pretty much every tool you can think of. I rather doubt any psi skills some lowly normal way user might have cannot be easily dealt with by a Master of the way.

I am all for lowering max contact some. As it stands, even taking into account Nyr mentioning that many things might come into play. If you take a non-bender PC that has all those things, and the other is a half-giant with master contact, it still only takes 2-5 tries to break that barrier from the other end of the world.

[Yasbusta]

Not only do you have to find another person's thoughts but you have to break their barrier with contact.

A higher level skill in contact should rarely break a bit lower one.

This is unfortunately not the case.

Barrier currently is useless unless it is against your underlings.

[perfecto]

I'm not exactly sure how barrier holds true to each race, but I'm almost certain that there is a difference between us as some are "smarter" than others.  I think it's fine the way it is; much like most of the things you players try to change daily!  This game has gone on for two decades as the hands down, best mud on the internet. (in mine and many others opinion) It almost pisses me off that you all keep trying to tweek the system just "a little more" to your liking...  Maybe you should try to play the game, not the admin.

edit to say: I don't mean it to sound Harsh.  I'm just a big fan of the game the way it is.  "No changes necessary"  That's all I'm saying. Do you know what I am saying?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=su-HUDo7XQ4

[Fujikoma]

I'm not exactly sure how barrier holds true to each race, but I'm almost certain that there is a difference between us as some are "smarter" than others.  I think it's fine the way it is; much like most of the things you players try to change daily!  This game has gone on for two decades as the hands down, best mud on the internet. (in mine and many others opinion) It almost pisses me off that you all keep trying to tweek the system just "a little more" to your liking...  Maybe you should try to play the game, not the admin.

Wow, resistant to change much? It's a discussion. Feel free to contribute to either side but the harshness is a little much.

[Ouroboros]

I'm in the group that feels barrier is largely ineffective. Mileage may vary and there are multiple factors at play, yes, but my experience with mastered barrier has been that it doesn't serve as a barrier at all. It's simply there as an indicator to let you know when your mind is no longer your own. As it stands, calling it barrier instead of tripwire or alarm doesn't feel too accurate. It feels like a balloon that pops at the slightest pinprick, not a barrier of any sort.

I don't however feel the contact cap should be lowered. I understand it's the easy fix, but breaking something to fix something else seems illogical. Contact as a skill works fine for it's intended use, it's barrier that's ineffective. So I'd rather see the barrier formula tweaked instead, to make breaking it harder.

I think it's fine the way it is; much like most of the things you players try to change daily!  This game has gone on for two decades as the hands down, best mud on the internet. (in mine and many others opinion) It almost pisses me off that you all keep trying to tweek the system just "a little more" to your liking...  Maybe you should try to play the game, not the admin.

I'll point out this game has not "gone on for two decades" unchanged. It's seen hundreds of small and major changes over the years, and will always continue to. If you're looking for unchanging stability in your life, look elsewhere. I'll also point out this thread is in a Code Discussion section placed here exactly so players can discuss code changes amongst themselves and staff. Discussion is critical to positive change, and by extension, our experience of the game. If you don't have anything constructive to contribute to a discussion, keep it to yourself. There's a big gap between this works for me as it is ...and... this is how it should be, and always has been, and always will be, and please don't even think about changing it, the very thought is heresy, amen.

TL;DR: Change happens, get over it.

Edit: You might not have meant it to come off harsh, but it did. Next time you feel the desire to reply with the fact you like the game as it is, consider the fact it's an illogical statement. You can't like the game as it is, because its consistently changed. You might like it as it is right now, sure, but that means you probably didn't like it before the last change that happened a couple days/months/years ago. And if that's the case, you can't argue against change because change is what made you like it now. If it isn't the case, and you like it no matter what change happens, arguing against change makes you come off as a fanboy arguing for arguments sake at best, or a troll at worse.

[RogueGunslinger]

edit to say: I don't mean it to sound Harsh.  I'm just a big fan of the game the way it is.  "No changes necessary"  That's all I'm saying. Do you know what I am saying?

Wow. I'm really glad I'm not playing the game as imagined by you.... No extended sub-guilds, no Karma policy, no new additions to the 'rinth, no revised Tuluki documentation...

Safe to say your idea of the game fucking sucks. How is that for harsh?

[Lizzie]

You hear all that silence in your head? That's the sound of all the people who tried to get past your barrier and failed.

That guy who broke through? That's the one who broke through.

[RogueGunslinger]

You hear all that silence in your head? That's the sound of all the people who tried to get past your barrier and failed.

That guy who broke through? That's the one who broke through.

While this is a well known occurrence and cause of bias, it's definitely been considered in all of my arguments. I'm talking about master contact and master barrier, getting through on the first try, every time. Sometime it takes a couple more tries, but it's rare.

Your example is also why I made this into a poll, to get other peoples perspective.

[Lizzie]

You hear all that silence in your head? That's the sound of all the people who tried to get past your barrier and failed.

That guy who broke through? That's the one who broke through.

While this is a well known occurrence and cause of bias, it's definitely been considered in all of my arguments. I'm talking about master contact and master barrier, getting through on the first try, every time. Sometime it takes a couple more tries, but it's rare.

Your example is also why I made this into a poll, to get other peoples perspective.

I know. I'm disagreeing with the notion that anyone with master contact can get through anyone with master barrier, every time they try. It just ain't so. This is why I feel changing it is without merit. Some people can always get through some other peoples' barriers, every time. Some can't always, but can sometimes. Some can, only rarely.

And then - some people can get through -most- PCs' barriers. Some can only get through some other peoples' barriers. Some can only get through one or two peoples' barriers.

It already works that way now. Making it harder for everyone to get through, will just make it harder for everyone to get through. It won't make the game any more fun, or playable, or realistic, or functional. If you don't want to be someone that people are always trying to get through your barrier, don't play a high-profile role. If you don't heed that advice, then you have to accept that some people will always be able to get through. And conversely - if you are keeping it up to prevent person "A" from getting through, you are very likely to prevent person B from getting through too. If you need to hear from person B, then you have to drop your barrier and hope person A isn't looking for your head at the moment.

Such is the nature of psionics in Zalanthas. I don't think it's a problem, I don't think it needs to be improved, I don't think that improving it WILL improve it.

[Jherlen]

I kinda liked someone's idea of contact auto-succeeding on someone without a barrier up. That would mean lots fewer PCs would have master contact, unless they'd spent time trying to break down people's barriers. It'd make barrier comparatively stronger for many, since having master contact would be harder, and presumably lower-level contact has a hard time breaking down barrier. It'd also make it easier on brand new PCs who are trying to contact folk to find work and fainting because they suck at contact.

[RogueGunslinger]

You hear all that silence in your head? That's the sound of all the people who tried to get past your barrier and failed.

That guy who broke through? That's the one who broke through.

While this is a well known occurrence and cause of bias, it's definitely been considered in all of my arguments. I'm talking about master contact and master barrier, getting through on the first try, every time. Sometime it takes a couple more tries, but it's rare.

Your example is also why I made this into a poll, to get other peoples perspective.

I know. I'm disagreeing with the notion that anyone with master contact can get through anyone with master barrier, every time they try. It just ain't so. This is why I feel changing it is without merit. Some people can always get through some other peoples' barriers, every time. Some can't always, but can sometimes. Some can, only rarely.

And then - some people can get through -most- PCs' barriers. Some can only get through some other peoples' barriers. Some can only get through one or two peoples' barriers.

It already works that way now. Making it harder for everyone to get through, will just make it harder for everyone to get through. It won't make the game any more fun, or playable, or realistic, or functional. If you don't want to be someone that people are always trying to get through your barrier, don't play a high-profile role. If you don't heed that advice, then you have to accept that some people will always be able to get through. And conversely - if you are keeping it up to prevent person "A" from getting through, you are very likely to prevent person B from getting through too. If you need to hear from person B, then you have to drop your barrier and hope person A isn't looking for your head at the moment.

Such is the nature of psionics in Zalanthas. I don't think it's a problem, I don't think it needs to be improved, I don't think that improving it WILL improve it.

So by your own admission 5 contacts attempts is more than sturdy enough even for those who do have the coded advantages on their side?


The difference between 5 and 1 attempts is almost negligible, considering you can spam contact someone 10 times and not worry about your stun.

[Ouroboros]

If you don't want to be someone that people are always trying to get through your barrier, don't play a high-profile role. If you don't heed that advice, then you have to accept that some people will always be able to get through. And conversely - if you are keeping it up to prevent person "A" from getting through, you are very likely to prevent person B from getting through too. If you need to hear from person B, then you have to drop your barrier and hope person A isn't looking for your head at the moment.

I'm not seeing how high-profile roles or a reiteration of how barrier's supposed to work has anything to do with how ineffective it is or isn't. This isn't a purely situational issue that only affects a small percentage of the population, it's a discussion on whether a feature is working as intended or at the very least, presented.

The opinion being shared here is that master barrier stacked up against master contact doesn't prove effective in any meaningful way. You can argue that's not your experience, though myself and others have had a different experience. Arguing the usefulness or intended mechanics of the command though has little to do with this discussion. Someone's master barrier being broken in one or two tries simply doesn't seem like much of a barrier, regardless of whether you're playing a high-profile role, a loner, a villain or a hero. You might certainly be more or less annoyed by barrier's ineffectiveness depending on the role you're in, but whether you're a little annoyed or very annoyed with a problem doesn't make it less of one.

The fact is that when you're activating your barrier, you're doing so with the desire to not be contacted by anyone, regardless of the reasons or frequency of this. Someone incredibly skilled and/or very persistent perhaps should be able to break through, sure. But what some of the poster's experience (mine included) seems to indicate, is that this happens far too easily and frequently for it to be functioning as intended or desired.

Making it harder for everyone to get through, will just make it harder for everyone to get through. It won't make the game any more fun, or playable, or realistic, or functional.

Er... Well, some of us (30 of us so far) are saying otherwise. Specifically, that making it harder to break through barriers will not only make the notion of a barrier more realistic, but will in fact improve our gameplay experience. Why it will improve it varies greatly, but the common ground for all reasons is that it will at least be a functioning barrier that will have a better chance of closing you off to communication. That being the desired goal every time you throw up a barrier, and that goal failing every time that barrier is crushed by another, regardless of the IC specifics in any given instance.