IDEA: Luir's storage lockers.

[Fujikoma]

Just a simple room in Luir's filled with rentable storage lockers, for say, 75 sid per 125 days. You can only rent one. Rents like a cheap apartment except isn't an apartment, passing the desk gives you a key or takes it away, depending on which direction you're going. Maybe a lazy guard who sometimes falls asleep in the locker room.

I understand it's not supposed to be easy to live in Luir's, so I'm not reccomending apartments, you'd still have to sleep in a tent somewhere, but it would provide a small amount of storage space for a fee, which I think would improve business in Luir's.

EDIT: Sorry if this has been brought up before.

[Malken]

If you want storage space, join Kurac.

Luir's is already crammed to the max, that's why you have living tents overspilling outside the walls of it and not inside.

There's definitely no space for you and visitors to cram their crap into an already overcrowded area, and Kurac doesn't need your 75 'sids a month, they do that amount of profit by selling half a knot of spice a day.

[Fujikoma]

Let's factor in an OOC consideration. What's the biggest problem with working for Kurac and living in Luir's? Boredom is the biggest complaint I've heard, when it's slow, it's -sloooooow-. Still it's worth it when it isn't slow. I think it would be a lot more fun if there were more PCs around, but that's unlikely when there isn't a place to put things. Then everyone gets bored and people leave, and the problem gets worse. The occasional festival is a blast, but the slow times can really make you wish you were somewhere else.

So yes, we can rationalize a "fuck you" attitude from Kurac and it makes total sense. But just one tiny concession may be enough to turn things around and make things more enjoyable for those who don't necessarily play during peak times, and requires the addition of two rooms, some lockers, a locker vendor and a lazy old guard, and maybe a door somewhere where there wasn't one previously.

[26 dollars]

I like this idea.  I've always had beef with Luir's apartments, because it really doesn't make sense, but I always wanted to see more tent dwellers show up in-game, and lively up the bailey area.  The only conceit for anyone is that their text-string stuffs would get stolen, ermagerd.  This is a nice idea that negates that concern.  A safety deposit box, the contents of which disappear (turn over to Kurac) upon failure to pay your rent.

[Fujikoma]

I like this idea.  I've always had beef with Luir's apartments, because it really doesn't make sense, but I always wanted to see more tent dwellers show up in-game, and lively up the bailey area.  The only conceit for anyone is that their text-string stuffs would get stolen, ermagerd.  This is a nice idea that negates that concern.  A safety deposit box, the contents of which disappear (turn over to Kurac) upon failure to pay your rent.

My point exactly. And yes, when they inevitably fail to pay the rent for whatever reason, Kurac takes the loot.

More PCs in Luir's means more for the Fist and Trade-Ops to do there, whether it's cracking down on troublemakers or enjoying a drink and discussing the latest news, and the movements of creatures and people in the area. I don't see how it could hurt to have a small PC population to represent the vNPC population and keep things fun for not just Kuraccis, but also those passing through for trade.

[evilcabbage]

No. Nenyuk has a monopoly on housing and renting spaces. Luirs is the way it is because it's a small outpost with a full standing army. Like others have said, if you want to live in Luirs, join Kurac. It's NOT as bad as people say it is. It's ACTUALLY quite a lot of fun regardless.

[MeTekillot]

Hand off '75 'sids to the nearest Mercenary and say 'Can you keep my things in your locker at the barracks?'. Hope they don't fuck you over.

[Fujikoma]

No. Nenyuk has a monopoly on housing and renting spaces. Luirs is the way it is because it's a small outpost with a full standing army. Like others have said, if you want to live in Luirs, join Kurac. It's NOT as bad as people say it is. It's ACTUALLY quite a lot of fun regardless.

Having spent a good deal of time in Luir's off peak and on, I really must question your idea of "fun". It does have its fun parts, this is true, but there are many slow bits where you're solo emoting for fun while who shows a large number of people playing. A locker doesn't mean the place is going to be overflowing with people, it just means maybe a few more PCs will stick around to represent the virtual population, and maybe those who leave Kurac because Allanak or Tuluk are much more exciting with plots and things going on will be given another reason to pause and think about staying.

Also, Nenyuk? If Kurac wants lockers in Luir's, it's not a city state, and Kurac's word goes. Or, maybe Nenyuk could work out a deal with Kurac to run a locker operation. Again, sometimes you really must consider OOC considerations when making these sorts of decisions. I see nothing but benefit, and the really good thing is it doesn't look like something all that complicated to implement, there are already plenty of places you could just copy paste from, and it's not too out of line with the theme, like apartments would be.

[evilcabbage]

No. Nenyuk has a monopoly on housing and renting spaces. Luirs is the way it is because it's a small outpost with a full standing army. Like others have said, if you want to live in Luirs, join Kurac. It's NOT as bad as people say it is. It's ACTUALLY quite a lot of fun regardless.

Having spent a good deal of time in Luir's off peak and on, I really must question your idea of "fun". It does have its fun parts, this is true, but there are many slow bits where you're solo emoting for fun while who shows a large number of people playing. A locker doesn't mean the place is going to be overflowing with people, it just means maybe a few more PCs will stick around to represent the virtual population, and maybe those who leave Kurac because Allanak or Tuluk are much more exciting with plots and things going on will be given another reason to pause and think about staying.

Also, Nenyuk? If Kurac wants lockers in Luir's, it's not a city state, and Kurac's word goes. Or, maybe Nenyuk could work out a deal with Kurac to run a locker operation. Again, sometimes you really must consider OOC considerations when making these sorts of decisions. I see nothing but benefit, and the really good thing is it doesn't look like something all that complicated to implement, there are already plenty of places you could just copy paste from, and it's not too out of line with the theme, like apartments would be.

Merchant Houses don't step on other Merchant House toes. Nenyuk is the administrator of housing and money in -general- Kurac -cannot- fuck with Nenyuk, because where do you think Kurac stores their money?

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

I'm uber alright with lockers in Luir's. Makes a ton of sense. I also support the idea of maybe one or two warehouses, since Luir's serves as a waypoint for the Known World.

But lockers? Yes, lockers work, and don't really create any sort of pretty inviting atmosphere or anything. I am fully behind this.

[evilcabbage]

I'm uber alright with lockers in Luir's. Makes a ton of sense. I also support the idea of maybe one or two warehouses, since Luir's serves as a waypoint for the Known World.

But lockers? Yes, lockers work, and don't really create any sort of pretty inviting atmosphere or anything. I am fully behind this.

I think Luirs is great and amazing the way it is, and it doesn't need anything more.

[Ouroboros]

I can't be the only one who misread the topic as "IKEA: Luir's storage lockers."

But yeah, this would help bring more life to the Outpost, without the IC and OOC issues apartments would bring. Like 7DV, I've also felt that at least one warehouse should be an option for the Outpost, due mainly to the massive amount of trade traffic that goes through. But lockers would certainly help the situation and permit Bailey residents to be practically feasible.

As far as Nenyuk goes... Its reach regarding housing extends to where it's permitted to extend, and primarily where it's been permitted to build. As far as the Outpost goes, Kurac owns every grain of sand there and Nenyuk is permitted to run a bank from which they profit. What Kurac chooses to do with it's property concerns no one but Kurac. It -could- choose to make a warehouse available through Nenyuk and collect rent from, leaving the headache of administration to Nenyuk at whatever rent increase they'd want to tack on to make their profit.

I think Luirs is great and amazing the way it is, and it doesn't need anything more.

I think you're great and amazing the way you are, and don't need to add anything more. To this discussion.

[evilcabbage]

I can't be the only one who misread the topic as "IKEA: Luir's storage lockers."

But yeah, this would help bring more life to the Outpost, without the IC and OOC issues apartments would bring. Like 7DV, I've also felt that at least one warehouse should be an option for the Outpost, due mainly to the massive amount of trade traffic that goes through. But lockers would certainly help the situation and permit Bailey residents to be practically feasible.

As far as Nenyuk goes... Its reach regarding housing extends to where it's permitted to extend, and primarily where it's been permitted to build. As far as the Outpost goes, Kurac owns every grain of sand there and Nenyuk is permitted to run a bank from which they profit. What Kurac chooses to do with it's property concerns no one but Kurac. It -could- choose to make a warehouse available through Nenyuk and collect rent from, leaving the headache of administration to Nenyuk at whatever rent increase they'd want to tack on to make their profit.

I think Luirs is great and amazing the way it is, and it doesn't need anything more.

I think you're great and amazing the way you are, and don't need to add anything more. To this discussion.

Okay, here, I'll put it this way.

Luirs is too small as it is, it has too much in it as it is, to be able to afford extra stuff being added to it. That place is a claustrophobic region with a modicum of space taken up by a ton of stuff.

[Fujikoma]

Yes, we get it, you don't like the idea, and that's fine.

[DustMight]

The lack of storage in Luir's enhances its atmosphere of being a place of transition and I fully support that. It's "between worlds" and mostly peopled by itinerants and Kuraci.   

There are tents and things along the outposts walls that someone could attempt to claim/try to live there - though it would be hard to "store stuff" without having it stolen.

That said - it would be cool if someone would craft up a bunch of lockers, lay them out and start charging for the rental space.  This could be done, clumsily, my a group of PCs unti they have permission/power/coin to hire an NPC guard or two.  It might work - might not.  Would be interesting just to see.

<derail >That said, I've always wanted to play a character that offered a type of "life insurance" to characters - they deposit a few large and upon a certain date/time if they have not contacted the insurer - they money (perhaps with interest) goes to person who holds the policy, named in advance - but that's a whole other thread. </derail>

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

That idea, while awesome, would require a space for the original PCs to be able to rent. Currently, pretty impossible code-wise.

Luir's can be a place of transition, but so is a shipping yard. There's storage to be had in a shipping yard, no reason not to have storage in Luir's.

[Fujikoma]

Personally, I'd like to hear what the players of various Kurac employees would have to say about this... We know there's non-Kurac NPC and vNPC population living there, and maybe a few PCs every now and then (more since the war), just a locker, and once it's full, tough shit, time to get rid of something.

And on the life insurance policy... That might just be better than putting it in the bank (Nenyuk is sitting on a huge pile of my previous PCs' coins), providing you can draw from it while you're still living if need be, and that the life insurance agent and/or their successors is/are -extremely- careful with themselves.

[Malken]

Again, it's a very IC reason why your idea wouldn't work in Luir's (or Red Storm, for that matter).. The outpost is a very crowded area and any tiny spot within the walls are at a premium.. If Kurac could find a spot to fit something else in this very overly-crowded area, they would go for something that would max out their profit, and not something that would just help out the folks visiting it (They probably don't even -want- people to stick around for long, again, you can easily find out ICly about their stand on semi-permanent "visitors"..)

Armageddon is not a game where you can just "add a couple of rooms and a script", everything is calculated and taken on an IC-reality level.

If you can find an area within the walls where lockers would make sense, I would suggest taking it up with whoever controls Kurac at the moment. I can guarantee you that they'll have an IC explanation as to why your idea is not feasible on an IC level.

Again, I'm not trying to tell you that your idea is dumb or anything, I'm just trying to explain to you why it doesn't make sense ICly why Kurac would have lockers to begin with.

And for the record, I'm very pro helping out people on an OOC level to make up for real life situations.

[DustMight]

Again, it's a very IC reason why your idea wouldn't work in Luir's (or Red Storm, for that matter)..

This is tough to defend, really, considering that in the past we have seen big changes in the game that are retroactively supported by documentation and rationalization.
If staff wanted this to happen, they would find an IC reason to make it happen.  After all, the story is currently being written. Examples that come to mind are the once ubiquitous brass lanterns, bronze arm-guards and occasional metal bracers or perhaps halfliings that once mingled with the general population and joined clans.

The game changes. A recent example is the Tuluki templarate changes - and though while was handled very smoothly by the staff it is an equally momentous change.

There is nothing to stop Kurac from deciding, for example, to open the most plush Zalanthanesque Hilton in Luir's.  It may not be your vision of what Kurac is now, but it would become, later, your understanding of what Kurac is.

There was, at one time, no tents along the walls.  The tents currently there hint at the idea of semi-regular residents of one type or another - even if just seasonal hunters, traders, whatever.

There are all types of IC arguments you could make to support further storage/rooms and IC arguments against it.

So simply arguing "No, not IC for <reason>" isn't a strong argument (unless coming from staff, of course - since they are writing the story) but neither is "It makes sense for this IC <reason>.

To me, OOC function of Luir's on a whole is a place of unsettled transition and keeping people from building their little craft studios in apartments there serves that function.
It might be cool to have other options (as I mentioned) though I would personally want them very insecure, limited and gritty.  I certainly wouldn't want a good hunk of our player-base living in Luir's.

I might be ok with even less mercantile support in Luirs - fewer shops and such - so that there is a greater need to travel between the far-flung city states.  I wonder what would happen if Luir's suddenly didn't have a non-Kuraci stable?  That would have an interesting impact indeed.  Or maybe not?   

[Molten Heart]

Lockers would make Luir's more attractive to independents but is that a good thing?  I'm not sure either way.  Luir's is more of a transient town where people bump into each other as they are going somewhere else.  The only people that'd make use of the lockers would be resident independents and "outlaw" types.  It'd be a boon for those types but what would it offer the game as a whole?  An increased population density?  That'd pull players from other areas (not that this is bad but some might think so) depriving clans of members and plots of participants.  Many of the interesting things that go on in the game revolve around clans, creating lockers would seem to disincentivize join clans, which seems counter to what the staff try to do.  Lockers would be cool, but will they promote interaction and roleplay?  I haven't seen anyone with a real good answer to that question.

[Fujikoma]

I figure if someone is willing to live out of a locker in an outpost away from all the awesome action, then there are very few things the other clans have to offer them. And yes, there are already virtual independants living in Luir's. Most of the vendors in the market I don't think are Kuracci, though at least three of them are. And yes, there would be a slight pull, but considering how active those areas are, well, do they need much more incentive? I personally think that variety in the choices of places to live is a good thing.

And even without the lockers, there will be the rare soul who chooses to live there despite the lack of accommodation, the supposed "danger" from the Kuraccis (don't fuck around and it shouldn't be a big problem, just like anywhere else make yourself useful and entertaining and you won't seem like such a drain, I don't see what there is to find out ICly, other than if you're a turd you're going to get buried out in the sands with the rest of the feces, but, I will try that and see what their stance is someday), well, I really don't see it, anymore than I would from the powers that be in the bigger city states. If anything, in the bigger cities there's actually many factions so many more people to worry about displeasing.

I think semi-permanent residents would add a bit of flavor to the outpost, I may have said this before. Yes, I know it's a transitional point for merchants, hunters, travelers, but it's always nice to go somewhere and -know- someone is going to be there to interact with, so you're not sitting there emoting about staring at a wall. Lockers would not make Luir's much more desirable to live in, in my opinion, just slightly more workable, should you choose that route.

It can be done without lockers, it's just, a pain in the bum.

[Reiloth]

I think it's a very modern, westerner ideal to be able to 'collect a lot of stuff, and put it in a room, and put a door on that room, and a lock on that door'.

I like to think of Luir's like Deadwood -- People are usually passing through, and if they want to stick around, they better have a good reason (and they are going to be closely watched). The Outpost isn't a staging ground for anyone besides House Kurac -- If you're running business out of there, Kurac not only gets a cut, but it's usually the majority. You don't like it? Find another Outpost that's run by a Merchant House instead of a Templarate.

There are plenty of freedoms afforded in Luir's Outpost -- Storage Facilities just isn't one of them. And neither are apartments.

Now having 'rentable rooms' that you can flop down in for a night for X coin, either for your salacious desires or just a private bed to sleep on, makes sense to me. Not having storage spaces pushes home that your piddly indy hunter can't really get by on their own -- Or rather, they can get by day to day, but they aren't going to have a place to put their 200 pelts. You want storage? Join a clan.

All adding storage spaces would do is further reinforce that 'being an indy hunter is cool, they can get (master) craft and make shit for you faster than <insert GMH> here, treat them great!'

All adding apartments to Luir's would do is provide places for peeps to sex in (and hoard your stuff). I don't really see the reason to do it, personally.

[Jingo]

Even in deadwood there was nothing stopping you from putting a bunch of stuff under a tarp and then hiring someone to watch that tarp while you sleep. In fact, it's in the first episode.

In fact, if Kurac had any intention of maximizing profit, they should consider renting out all of that unused space in the bailey.

[DustMight]

In fact, if Kurac had any intention of maximizing profit, they should consider renting out all of that unused space in the bailey.

They may want that space free for defensive reasons?

[Molten Heart]

In fact, if Kurac had any intention of maximizing profit, they should consider renting out all of that unused space in the bailey.

They may want that space free for defensive reasons?

Well... if Luir's gets invaded (again), it'd be nice if there was a bunch people there to act as a buffer.  :-)

[Malken]

In fact, if Kurac had any intention of maximizing profit, they should consider renting out all of that unused space in the bailey.

They may want that space free for defensive reasons?

Well... if Luir's gets invaded (again), it'd be nice if there was a bunch people there to act as a buffer.  :-)

The more people there is, the more it makes them noticeable by the powers that be.

If people starts moving in longer than a day or so, it's not an outpost anymore but a small village.

There might be IC reasons as to why Luir's Outpost wants to remain an outpost and not a small village.

[26 dollars]

Personally, I'd like to hear what the players of various Kurac employees would have to say about this...

I've played a Kuraci Agent before.  I like to think I have the pulse of the place (even though I haven't had much time to play since the HRPT).  Apartments?  Hells to the no.  Lockers in the bailey?  Yeah, sure.  Why not?  When your grebber dies from extreme sandy butt, Kurac is just gonna take your stuff, and add it to their profits.

I don't think it promotes too heavily on indies when there are much better options elsewhere.  It's more of a convenience for someone who wants to roleplay a shanty town scumbag.

The notion that there's "not enough space" is laughable.  I pulled a muscle laughing.

[ShaLeah]

If Kurac wants the stuff of grebbers then they should hire them. I think Nenyuk WOULD have a problem with Kurac leasing space to anyone and being cut out of the process. After all, that IS how Nenyuk has acquired most of its wealth. Let's assume they're not in Red Storm for a reason, hm?

Kurac run lockers? Newp, not digging it. Nenyuk run lockers? That I'm okay with. They should rent/hold ANYTHING people are willing to pay for, s'good business methinks.

[Voular]

Is it just me or do we need to have keys for these lockers? Drop-off, pick-up points for various illicit goods changing hands without a meeting? >_>

[26 dollars]

I think Nenyuk WOULD have a problem with Kurac leasing space to anyone and being cut out of the process.

Oh, really?  What do you think goes on in the rest of the market?  Let's not assume the words 'rent' and 'lease' are synonymous with Nenyuk, hm?  

[Ouroboros]

I think that if the biggest problem in this is how Nenyuk would react, that's something best dealt with by staff and the PCs involved in such decisions. We can play armchair staff all day long, but at the end of that day, the only ones with a clear picture of how any given clan would react to something IC, is the staff assigned to oversee such a clan.

You'd be surprised how often high-ranking clan NPCs decide things in entirely different ways than you thought they would, either because they have a broader picture of a situation or personal agendas. You ask me, I'd love to see Nenyuk or any other family try to tell the Kuraci what they can and can't do in their Outpost. But that's just if you're asking for my personal opinion.

As far as lockers themselves go, we're not discussing a livable space, just a container. These aren't mini-warehouses, or ultra-secure private vaults. Lockers are something quite standard in Zalanthas, not a modern concept, and exist in almost every single clan. Securing such a row of lockers down to the ground/wall and adding a lock to each isn't any thematic stretch of the imagination. It just provides a bit of storage for someone to potentially stow their things from the relative unsafety of their tent inthe Bailey, or between travel. And it opens up a ton of possibilities as well, yes, ranging from illicit drop-offs with the passing of keys to burglarizing said lockers. Think of the standard lockers in most any bus/train station, and you'll see how this makes sense even for a location you're meant to pass through and not reside in, as well as all the potential RP and uses they can provide.

[26 dollars]

You'd be surprised how often high-ranking clan NPCs decide things in entirely different ways than you thought they would, either because they have a broader picture of a situation or personal agendas.

Truth.

Think of the standard lockers in most any bus/train station, and you'll see how this makes sense even for a location you're meant to pass through and not reside in, as well as all the potential RP and uses they can provide.

That was my thinking exactly when I read the idea.  Something like train station lockers, in an Outpost where nearly every culture has to pass through at one time or another.  The potential would be there, at least.

[Fujikoma]

I'm glad other people gather the general idea and are able to express it much better than I can. Yes, like a locker at a bus or train station.

[evilcabbage]

I think that if the biggest problem in this is how Nenyuk would react, that's something best dealt with by staff and the PCs involved in such decisions. We can play armchair staff all day long, but at the end of that day, the only ones with a clear picture of how any given clan would react to something IC, is the staff assigned to oversee such a clan.

You'd be surprised how often high-ranking clan NPCs decide things in entirely different ways than you thought they would, either because they have a broader picture of a situation or personal agendas. You ask me, I'd love to see Nenyuk or any other family try to tell the Kuraci what they can and can't do in their Outpost. But that's just if you're asking for my personal opinion.

As far as lockers themselves go, we're not discussing a livable space, just a container. These aren't mini-warehouses, or ultra-secure private vaults. Lockers are something quite standard in Zalanthas, not a modern concept, and exist in almost every single clan. Securing such a row of lockers down to the ground/wall and adding a lock to each isn't any thematic stretch of the imagination. It just provides a bit of storage for someone to potentially stow their things from the relative unsafety of their tent inthe Bailey, or between travel. And it opens up a ton of possibilities as well, yes, ranging from illicit drop-offs with the passing of keys to burglarizing said lockers. Think of the standard lockers in most any bus/train station, and you'll see how this makes sense even for a location you're meant to pass through and not reside in, as well as all the potential RP and uses they can provide.

Love to see Kurac's bank account if they even so much as tried to push back against a house like Nenyuk. Nenyuk is where all the money is, goes, and is made.

[Fujikoma]

With the number of characters I've had die with several large in the bank, and the money renting things out must bring in, I seriously doubt Nenyuk is hurting for cash enough to pitch a hissy fit over some lockers in Luir's.

[evilcabbage]

They're not hurting for cash, but it's like if I tried to set up a merchant group who sold weapons and armor as their specialty. Do you know who's going to come knocking on my door (or kicking it in) if I do that? Same concept.

[Narf]

They're not hurting for cash, but it's like if I tried to set up a merchant group who sold weapons and armor as their specialty. Do you know who's going to come knocking on my door (or kicking it in) if I do that? Same concept.

Kurac sells weapons and armor in their own outpost. They also sell cloths if I recall. They also own all the housing, sell the food, run the guard as well as the military, own all the taverns, can kill anyone on a whim with veritably no consequences, etc etc...

You might think that other houses or groups should have power over what Kurac does in their outpost, but empirical evidence says otherwise.

[ShaLeah]

I think Nenyuk WOULD have a problem with Kurac leasing space to anyone and being cut out of the process.

Oh, really?  What do you think goes on in the rest of the market?  Let's not assume the words 'rent' and 'lease' are synonymous with Nenyuk, hm?  

Oh really

Nenyuk leases "safety space" already for certain items. This codedly seems similar, just have them accept anything. Saving a corpse might be interesting!

We want our things kept safe. Leasing and renting ARE synonymous.  I stand by my opinion, if Kurac wants to delve into Nenyuk territory, they'll have an issue with it.

[evilcabbage]

Kurac sells some desert wares in their outpost, not necessarily efficient or effective armors. Some of might might pass as armorlike, but it's not really "armor". Their weapons are relatively common, and the biggest purveyor of weapons in that area is... take a wild guess.

[DustMight]

We want our things kept safe. Leasing and renting ARE synonymous.  I stand by my opinion, if Kurac wants to delve into Nenyuk territory, they'll have an issue with it.

Seems like it would take some pretty big brass balls for Nenyuk to tell Kurac  what Kurac can do on its own property.  Just sayin'.

[evilcabbage]

Seems like it would take some pretty steel balls for Kurac to tell Nenyuk that it's going to start offering living space and not cut Nenyuk in.

[DustMight]

Kurac sells some desert wares in their outpost, not necessarily efficient or effective armors. Some of might might pass as armorlike, but it's not really "armor". Their weapons are relatively common, and the biggest purveyor of weapons in that area is... take a wild guess.

Actually, since Kuraci merchants buy almost any kind of armor - they also sell it.  They dont' manufacture it perhaps - but they certainly do a good business in resale.

[evilcabbage]

Then the people they purchased it from already got a nice cut. They're not the only group sitting in that region. I wonder why?

[ShaLeah]

They're not hurting for cash, but it's like if I tried to set up a merchant group who sold weapons and armor as their specialty. Do you know who's going to come knocking on my door (or kicking it in) if I do that? Same concept.

Kurac sells weapons and armor in their own outpost. They also sell cloths if I recall. They also own all the housing, sell the food, run the guard as well as the military, own all the taverns, can kill anyone on a whim with veritably no consequences, etc etc...

You might think that other houses or groups should have power over what Kurac does in their outpost, but empirical evidence says otherwise.

Not sure that's the cut and dry case. All major houses rent space in Luir's, Nenyuk has a building that is Nenyuk property, I know because I played one of the last Nenyuk.  Sure, Kurac owns the post and sure everyone else is just a guest but how long do you think Kurac would last if they kicked out Nenyuk? If they went against the GMH agreements? You gotta play ball, leasing protection for items infringes on Nenyuk.

[DustMight]

Seems like it would take some pretty steel balls for Kurac to tell Nenyuk that it's going to start offering living space and not cut Nenyuk in.

Not really.  Our outpost. Our standing army.  You don't like it - leave and we'll open our own bank.  
Nenyuk doesn't have their own standing army and I truly doubt that any family (however richly endowed) will start a war with a GMH - after all - I think the other GMHs would protest a bit.

Edit: It's an interesting case in any event.  Would love to know the inner details.

Edit to add: I mean consider the balls Kurac already shows with various properties in Allanak and their resistance to various actions of war against city-states. An issue over renting footlockers?  Really?  I doubt either group would be concerned about it.  Even if the rentals were indeed livable shanties.

[evilcabbage]

Kurac can start its own bank all it wants. It doesn't know how Nenyuk makes the obsidian coins to begin with If they kick out Nenyuk, they kick out every other Merchant House and basically say fuck you to a system of trade agreements that has been going on for a long time.

Nenyuk is also a GMH, by the by.

[Fujikoma]

I think the point that at least one person is missing is that a locker isn't a living space. It's just a simple method of storage.

[evilcabbage]

And you have to rent that storage space. Warehouses aren't living space, they're storage space. Guess who maintains the majority control on warehouses (i.e. storage space)?

[Fujikoma]

Very well, if Nenyuk wants to rent out storage lockers in Luir's, I would not take issue with that, so long as they keep the rent sane.

[26 dollars]

And you have to rent that storage space. Warehouses aren't living space, they're storage space. Guess who maintains the majority control on warehouses (i.e. storage space)?

Uhh, which warehouses?  Every GMH has a number of warehouses, Kurac included.  Nenyuk does not own these, or take any part in their administration.   I think we've gone from Shaleah's ridiculous notion of "every rental property is controlled by Nenyuk" now to this hyberbolic "every single warehouse in the world is owned and run by Nenyuk."  This is becoming a very stupid conversation about something that is pretty simple.

[Eyeball]

Seems like it would take some pretty steel balls for Kurac to tell Nenyuk that it's going to start offering living space and not cut Nenyuk in.

Frankly, the concept that Nenyuk owns every apartment and house in the Known is rather new.

Since 1996, we went from staff-run NPC merchants selling homes to individual PCs (there are still a few remnants of this time in 'nak), to rentable apartments being added in, to the sale of homes to individual PCs discontinued, to the idea that it's Nenyuk renting out the apartments and homes, to the idea that Nenyuk has a monopoly in the cities.. to now the idea that mighty Nenyuk is going to take offence over a handful of lockers or homes in some dusty outpost apparently.

This in spite of rentable apartments in Red Storm, with no sign that Nenyuk is putting the smack down on the Sand Lord, or even can be bothered to open a bank branch there. EDIT: I was surprised when the branch in Luir's opened.

[Eurynomos]

Hey, let's keep it civil and actually discuss things rather than describe people's arguments as 'stupid' and 'ridiculous'.

[Eyeball]

If some people want Nenyuk to run rentals in Luir's, it might make sense in that Kurac might find it convenient to contract out to Nenyuk to administer them, given Nenyuk's extensive experience in dealing with renters.

Let's just not forget who really owns the real estate there. Nenyuk would be paying Kurac for the privilege, in the same way I'd expect they'd be paying the city states a cut for the privilege of managing and profiting from the lands there.

[26 dollars]

Hey, let's keep it civil and actually discuss things rather than describe people's arguments as 'stupid' and 'ridiculous'.

Bleh.  I didn't eat my Wheaties this morning.

[Kronibas]

I think apartments might be okay.  Luir's is like this big drug casino in the middle of nowhere.  They might want people to stick around and live there, you know, so they can buy more drugs, spend more money.  Like some sort of post apocalyptic resort casino.  Charge like 2-3k a month for a room to maybe make it more exclusive -- and maybe have a shitty-lock ghetto of sorts for the tons of spice addicts no doubt clinging to the drug Wal Mart of Zalanthas.

[Lizzie]

Nenyuk does not, and has never, owned all the rentable properties in the cities. They have owned some, and they have managed others on behalf of those cities. However, the cities own the properties upon which those buildings sit. And it is the cities which decide whether or not Nenyuk gets to own, or even manage, the buildings. I'd love to see Nenyuk tell Salarr that their shops in the bazaar in Allanak will be getting a rent hike. Hint: Salarr doesn't pay rent to Nenyuk for that. They pay it to Allanak.

Just like Nenyuk pays rent to Kurac for the privilege of having a banking facility there. They don't have to, but it's a useful thing in that particular trading post, and so they give them privileges and presence in the Outpost, and in exchange - Kurac gets a cut. Not the other way around.

If Kurac wants to get a cut from other people, for space they *rent* to other people - it's their prerogative. It's their property. They own it, 100% of it. It isn't Nenyuk's decision to make.

Salarr pays rent (via a lump sum or percentage of sales) to Kurac, in LUir's Outpost. Kadius does also. So does the Tan Muark, and so do those independent non-Kurac tribal vendors. If you want to claim space in Luir's, you have a financial responsibility to pay for it one way or another. That includes Nenyuk. Luir's is not a city. It's a private outpost owned and operated by one family. ONE family. It's not a conglomerate.

[Jherlen]

I prefer to think of Nenyuk as a primarily banking house that got bored after a while and decided to dump some of their massive profits into real estate. They own some -- NOT ALL -- of apartment buildings in the cities because they've had plenty of time to invest their profits. In order to rent something, you need to own it, after all, and Nenyuk certainly doesn't own all the private residential property in the city states. They definitely don't own much if any in Luir's.

All the interest and debate this thread has sparked makes me think maybe we need more GMH-struggles in game!

[ShaLeah]

And you have to rent that storage space. Warehouses aren't living space, they're storage space. Guess who maintains the majority control on warehouses (i.e. storage space)?

Uhh, which warehouses?  Every GMH has a number of warehouses, Kurac included.  Nenyuk does not own these, or take any part in their administration.   I think we've gone from Shaleah's ridiculous notion of "every rental property is controlled by Nenyuk" now to this hyberbolic "every single warehouse in the world is owned and run by Nenyuk."  This is becoming a very stupid conversation about something that is pretty simple.

I never said every rental property is controlled or owned by Nenyuk even, but the fact remains that the service people are suggesting already exists, just not in the capacity of being able to store ANYTHING. My opinion is they'd want part of that action. Sure Kurac sells weapons, but nowhere near what Salarr does. They don't touch luxury items and the booze they do sell isn't the bulk of Kadius' monopoly.

Just like in the bottom of the volcano crater if the Known holdings can be eminent domained to the city, it still doesn't change that there are holdings specific to a House. Look at the recent removal of Kurac's estate in Allanak and the subsequent wheeling and dealing to get back in good graces one would think they (Kurac) would think twice before stepping on too many toes.

[Fujikoma]

I am surprised at how much attention this is getting, suppose I shouldn't be. I fully expected to be told "Dude, we went over this four years ago. Do you see any lockers in Luir's? No? That answer your question?", but figured it was worth a shot anyway. Thanks everyone who commented, even if I disagree with you.

[Ouroboros]

I think that if the biggest problem in this is how Nenyuk would react, that's something best dealt with by staff and the PCs involved in such decisions. We can play armchair staff all day long, but at the end of that day, the only ones with a clear picture of how any given clan would react to something IC, is the staff assigned to oversee such a clan.

So. Any thoughts or concerns left about this potential row of shabby lockers that don't involve what any given player feels a GMH would do if they were running it?

[Desertman]

The crews I would run out of Luir's Outpost.

You just don't know.

And I guess you never will. *sigh*

[Twilight]

I wish something like this existed...in the Red Sun Commons.

A building that is meant as a crafting area, with limited storage in lockers, to represent that much of the crafting in the north is done in that quarter.  If you put multiple lockers in several rooms, each with its own crafting "theme", you would be able to encourage a communal crafting area for independent/partisan crafters, rather than have everyone run back to their apartments to do it.

I am bleh on this for Luirs.  Just given the geographical positioning, being able to store things in Luirs is a bit unbalancing IMHO in the general north/south divide of the game.

[Kronibas]

Yeah Twilight, not derailing too much, but some communal stuff would be neat in Tuluk.  Like a communal or paid-for sparring area... that closes at night, to be sure.

Also, I mostly agree with the not having apartments in Luir's for OOC reasons.  Having said, really neat stuff would probably happen, at the expense of the city states losing numbers.  I think only someone with way more insight should make that call, ultimately.

Luir's just really fits the theme of the game, too, and so does Kurac as a whole.  It's funny to see so many Tuluki folks hanging out in one of the sleaziest, vice ridden bars in the city, a place that is not exactly subtle.  midget strippers are not subtle.  Anyway, maybe it's a sign of what the playerbase likes, maybe it's transient... but Luir's just by virtue of being what is is has the potential for terrible amounts of sleaze and seediness, murder, drugs, prostitution, etc... and maybe it would be cool to expand that.  There's the potential for this in the city states, too, but Luir's is different.  Usually only Kuraci/tribals/transient weirdos are in Luir's, and maybe that's how it should remain.

[Twilight]

There was a paid for sparring area in the bar in the Crater, if memory serves.

[RogueGunslinger]

Man, screw Tuluk, Allanak needs some love.

[Qzzrbl]

Allanak doesn't need love.

This is what is great about Allanak.

[BleakOne]

I wouldn't mind there being lockers for rent in Luirs, particularly if they were able to be lockpicked and stolen from like apartments can be.

[evilcabbage]

And you have to rent that storage space. Warehouses aren't living space, they're storage space. Guess who maintains the majority control on warehouses (i.e. storage space)?

Uhh, which warehouses?  Every GMH has a number of warehouses, Kurac included.  Nenyuk does not own these, or take any part in their administration.   I think we've gone from Shaleah's ridiculous notion of "every rental property is controlled by Nenyuk" now to this hyberbolic "every single warehouse in the world is owned and run by Nenyuk."  This is becoming a very stupid conversation about something that is pretty simple.

Note: Majority control. Start reading more. I never said every single anything is run by anybody, I said Nenyuk has a majority control on rentable warehouse space, and rentable space in general.

[26 dollars]

I said Nenyuk has a majority control on rentable warehouse space, and rentable space in general.

Does Nenyuk rent out Poet's Circle?  Do they rent out the apartments in Red Storm?  Do they take the profits from any stables?  When you rent a private room from Tarkon, who takes the coins?  If you rent a private apartment from Luir's, who would you contact to bargain that deal?

Nenyuk has properties for rent, holdings in real estate.  More than any other merchant entity, they are invested in that market.  Like it or not, Kurac already rents out ALL of the rentable space in Luir's.  It already exists that way, in-game.  Go there, and find out IC.

As for the true intention of this thread, yes, why don't we do some simple lockers?  Some merchants make the bulk of their trade passing between the north and south, and go past Luir's often.  There would at least be some intrigue, and give the Fist some more interaction.

[solera]

I wouldn't mind there being lockers for rent in Luirs, particularly if they were able to be lockpicked and stolen from like apartments can be.

In Luirs Outpost?

Mincemeat.

[BleakOne]

I wouldn't mind there being lockers for rent in Luirs, particularly if they were able to be lockpicked and stolen from like apartments can be.

In Luirs Outpost?

Mincemeat.

Extra profit for Kurac. Claims to the loot of thieves. 

[Harmless]

Just add the ability to rent a mount with a maximum of one bag on it to store shit in.
Maybe just for Luir's and Red Storm, plus a few other places that'll go unnamed here.

Code Select Expand



>rent beetle

The half-breed stablehand says, in Sirihish,
   "I'm sorry, but you can have at most one bag packed to your mount here."

>unpack pack
You unpack a leather backpack from a war beetle.

>pack
Strapped to a war beetle:
a large bag

>rent beetle

The half-breed stablehand collects your money and stores a war beetle in the stables, with a large bag.



To accomodate this new service, the rent fee should be increased when you take a mount out with a bag packed.

Code Select Expand



>offer ticket

A half-breed stablehand takes fifty coins from you and brings a war beetle from the stables, packed with a large bag.



[The7DeadlyVenomz]

I'd rather see a guy in front of a row of ... let's do it in game terms.

A Brick Lean-To [N]
This hovel is constructed of dun-colored, black-mortared bricks. The northern side of
the structure is open to the yard. Against the other three walls are massive shelves,
floor to ceiling, and these are crowded with literally thousands of small chests, each
uniquely marked with a picture or symbol.
The monstrous half-giant looms here, scowling at everyone.
The boulder-shouldered dwarf guards the place, eyes keen.
The lanky, war-braided elf stands here, swords to hand.
The fat quartermaster sits at a desk, eying the line before it.

>list
The fat quartermaster says to you, in sirihish:
   "You can -BUY- one of my chests, and stow a few things in it."

>buy
The fat quartermaster sells you a small, stone chest.

>put leaf chest
You put a pink leaf in a small, stone chest.

>rent chest
The fat quartermaster takes your small, stone chest and gives you a granite tag.
The fat quartermaster says to you, in sirihish:
   "Bring me this tag and forty obsidian coins to retrieve your chest."

[Harmless]

 I like that idea too.

My only issue with this... is that it isn't possible to steal someone's shit if it isn't in a physically coded room (apartment). I just realized with my idea that you can't steal unless you get the mount ticket.

Still works for pickpockets, though. Steal the tag/ticket and you got yourself the whole pile. That's nice.

[Refugee]

The main time when I think Kurac might want to rent lockers out in Luirs is during their events like Luirsfest.  I've certainly wished for somewhere to stick my armor while wearing my party duds.  It's certainly an opportunity for them to make some extra coin.

[Barzalene]

The main time when I think Kurac might want to rent lockers out in Luirs is during their events like Luirsfest.  I've certainly wished for somewhere to stick my armor while wearing my party duds.  It's certainly an opportunity for them to make some extra coin.

That I can get behind.

[evilcabbage]

Store your shit in your damn apartments or join a clan and store it there. This isn't supposed to be Accomodageddon, this is Armageddon. And in Armageddon, you don't get tons of places to store your lockers.

You know what'll happen if they add five lockers to Luirs? Players will probably bitch and moan that there aren't enough lockers. Nobody will be happy.

[Derain]

Kurac should have lockers that the agents can give people access to for a price but only allow people who are USEFUL to Kurac to use them. Informants, spys etc, Or if you buy citizenship from that one guy then you should be able to buy a locker *cough*.

[Eurynomos]

Kurac should have lockers that the agents can give people access to for a price but only allow people who are USEFUL to Kurac to use them. Informants, spys etc, Or if you buy citizenship from that one guy then you should be able to buy a locker *cough*.

That one guy who sells citizenship in Luir's Outpost no longer sells citizenship in Luir's Outpost.

[Derain]

Man what a drag. (been awhile since I went there)

[Refugee]

Store your shit in your damn apartments or join a clan and store it there. This isn't supposed to be Accomodageddon, this is Armageddon. And in Armageddon, you don't get tons of places to store your lockers.

You know what'll happen if they add five lockers to Luirs? Players will probably bitch and moan that there aren't enough lockers. Nobody will be happy.

My point was that during these events people come to Luirs that need their armor there, and that might need to strip for a turn in the ginka pit or want to wear clothing instead of armor for some of the celebrations.  I've always maintained apartments and/or been in clans. 

You know, whenever I read rude replies on the GDB I quit voting for a few days until I feel better about the game and its players again.

[Barzalene]

Vote anyway. For me.
And I like the idea of this not as a fixture, but as a service. For Luirs Fest.

[Desertman]

I'd rather see a guy in front of a row of ... let's do it in game terms.

A Brick Lean-To [N]
This hovel is constructed of dun-colored, black-mortared bricks. The northern side of
the structure is open to the yard. Against the other three walls are massive shelves,
floor to ceiling, and these are crowded with literally thousands of small chests, each
uniquely marked with a picture or symbol.
The monstrous half-giant looms here, scowling at everyone.
The boulder-shouldered dwarf guards the place, eyes keen.
The lanky, war-braided elf stands here, swords to hand.
The fat quartermaster sits at a desk, eying the line before it.

>list
The fat quartermaster says to you, in sirihish:
  "You can -BUY- one of my chests, and stow a few things in it."

>buy
The fat quartermaster sells you a small, stone chest.

>put leaf chest
You put a pink leaf in a small, stone chest.

>rent chest
The fat quartermaster takes your small, stone chest and gives you a granite tag.
The fat quartermaster says to you, in sirihish:
  "Bring me this tag and forty obsidian coins to retrieve your chest."

I sure wish banking worked this way. (That's right Nyr, I slipped it in! BWHAHAHAHAHAH)

Seriously though, I like it. It is exactly my idea for the banking code, more or less, but for items instead of coins, though I guess you COULD put coins in your chest.

[Harmless]

You know, whenever I read rude replies on the GDB I [think about quitting voting doing something irrational and self-defeating for a few days until I feel better about the game and its players again.

FTFY.

Also, don't worry about evilcabbage... I mean, he admits to being a cabbage. I dunno about you, but the last time I got pissed at my cabbage was around age 5 or so. 

[Fujikoma]

Having run a few characters who ran with a character of Refugee's, I have to say I respect his opinion and love what he brings to the game.. I've been meaning to write up kudos for some time, just haven't gotten around to it.

Rude replies are kind of annoying, but, that's life. Sometimes, might just not be reading the text properly, or that's what I tell myself.

[maxid]

Having run a few characters who ran with a character of Refugee's, I have to say I respect his opinion and love what he brings to the game.. I've been meaning to write up kudos for some time, just haven't gotten around to it.

Rude replies are kind of annoying, but, that's life. Sometimes, might just not be reading the text properly, or that's what I tell myself.

No, he just dug his heels in the way people do on the GDB without fully reading or thinking through the arguments.  You'll never get through to him, and he'll post as often as he can to disagree.  It's just the way the GDB works, sadly.

To be constructive, I really like the lockers idea.  There's no logical reason that Nenyuk or Kurac can't do that, even if it was limited to a few lockers for useful non-Kuraci employees dished out by the Agent.

[Fujikoma]

I used to be in a clan with that guy, all the life got sucked out of it when he left, Refugee is a fucking badass, is what I'm saying. I'm still having fun, but I'm missing him all the same.

One day, *title not included because I don't want to be a shitwad*, one day... Just, um, not right now, it seems. Wow! IC only info is fun!

[maxid]

I quoted the wrong one.  I was referring to cabbage.

[Zoan]

If you're in Luirs, why are you even an Independent? Join Kurac, it's literally the only reason to be there, forever.

(Unsure if joke was already made; didn't read boring thread on account of not enough jokes on page 1).

[Drayab]

I think Refugee has a good point with the storage during events. You may need multiple changes of clothes if you are participating in several events (eg - pitfighting, drinking contest, ginka wrestling, boxing), and it is jarring and annoying to have to change clothes 'under your cloak' and get your friend to hold the bag.

It would be great if Kurac rented out rooms in the tavern for short terms (maybe 4 IG weeks)  so that you could privately change your clothes and store your weapons when you're not fighting. Also to mudsex and murder peope, too, of course.

[Malken]

Being able to mudsex inside a locker would be grand indeed.

[Fujikoma]

(with a nod) Please, enter this locker... Actually, Luirs has two rooms where you can do dirty shit, more if your "friend" has some kind of wagon... And the Fist isn't supposed to be particularly interested in what assholes are getting paid, otherwise they would pay better themselves... I hope that wasn't too IC. Maybe they could get some from blackmail.

[Dalmeth]

Instead of storage lockers, how about a Post Office?

PC rents a container, gets a ticket, and the office holds it for a set period of time.  The length of time determines the price.

Now would-be traders can leave bulk goods in a portable format.  It's magick for the masses!

Anything that remains after the deadline turns up in a nearby shop as, "new merchandise."

Simple and fun.

You can thank me later.

[bcw81]

Instead of storage lockers, how about a Post Office?

PC rents a container, gets a ticket, and the office holds it for a set period of time.  The length of time determines the price.

Now would-be traders can leave bulk goods in a portable format.  It's magick for the masses!

Anything that remains after the deadline turns up in a nearby shop as, "new merchandise."

Simple and fun.

You can thank me later.

Sounds to me like something you could start IC yourself, build up a transport empire between the cities, and then after a long while of hard IC work with staff help, get something more permanent worked on.

[Mood]

Instead of storage lockers, how about a Post Office?

PC rents a container, gets a ticket, and the office holds it for a set period of time.  The length of time determines the price.

Now would-be traders can leave bulk goods in a portable format.  It's magick for the masses!

Anything that remains after the deadline turns up in a nearby shop as, "new merchandise."

Simple and fun.

You can thank me later.

Sounds to me like something you could start IC yourself, build up a transport empire between the cities, and then after a long while of hard IC work with staff help, get something more permanent worked on.

well, ain't that cute. you can't even build a wagon in this game anymore, you think any PC is going to build a transport empire? lol.

[bcw81]

Instead of storage lockers, how about a Post Office?

PC rents a container, gets a ticket, and the office holds it for a set period of time.  The length of time determines the price.

Now would-be traders can leave bulk goods in a portable format.  It's magick for the masses!

Anything that remains after the deadline turns up in a nearby shop as, "new merchandise."

Simple and fun.

You can thank me later.

Sounds to me like something you could start IC yourself, build up a transport empire between the cities, and then after a long while of hard IC work with staff help, get something more permanent worked on.

well, ain't that cute. you can't even build a wagon in this game anymore, you think any PC is going to build a transport empire? lol.

:/ Your sarcasm is what makes it impossible. Yes, if you put enough time and effort into things, you can get staff support to do them. No, it's not easy. No, it's not simple. Yes, it requires effort.

Also: I am like 90% sure you can build a wagon if you are working for an organization with the proper tools, funding, and materials to build a wagon.