IDEA: Luir's storage lockers.

[Fujikoma]

Just a simple room in Luir's filled with rentable storage lockers, for say, 75 sid per 125 days. You can only rent one. Rents like a cheap apartment except isn't an apartment, passing the desk gives you a key or takes it away, depending on which direction you're going. Maybe a lazy guard who sometimes falls asleep in the locker room.

I understand it's not supposed to be easy to live in Luir's, so I'm not reccomending apartments, you'd still have to sleep in a tent somewhere, but it would provide a small amount of storage space for a fee, which I think would improve business in Luir's.

EDIT: Sorry if this has been brought up before.

[Malken]

If you want storage space, join Kurac.

Luir's is already crammed to the max, that's why you have living tents overspilling outside the walls of it and not inside.

There's definitely no space for you and visitors to cram their crap into an already overcrowded area, and Kurac doesn't need your 75 'sids a month, they do that amount of profit by selling half a knot of spice a day.

[Fujikoma]

Let's factor in an OOC consideration. What's the biggest problem with working for Kurac and living in Luir's? Boredom is the biggest complaint I've heard, when it's slow, it's -sloooooow-. Still it's worth it when it isn't slow. I think it would be a lot more fun if there were more PCs around, but that's unlikely when there isn't a place to put things. Then everyone gets bored and people leave, and the problem gets worse. The occasional festival is a blast, but the slow times can really make you wish you were somewhere else.

So yes, we can rationalize a "fuck you" attitude from Kurac and it makes total sense. But just one tiny concession may be enough to turn things around and make things more enjoyable for those who don't necessarily play during peak times, and requires the addition of two rooms, some lockers, a locker vendor and a lazy old guard, and maybe a door somewhere where there wasn't one previously.

[26 dollars]

I like this idea.  I've always had beef with Luir's apartments, because it really doesn't make sense, but I always wanted to see more tent dwellers show up in-game, and lively up the bailey area.  The only conceit for anyone is that their text-string stuffs would get stolen, ermagerd.  This is a nice idea that negates that concern.  A safety deposit box, the contents of which disappear (turn over to Kurac) upon failure to pay your rent.

[Fujikoma]

I like this idea.  I've always had beef with Luir's apartments, because it really doesn't make sense, but I always wanted to see more tent dwellers show up in-game, and lively up the bailey area.  The only conceit for anyone is that their text-string stuffs would get stolen, ermagerd.  This is a nice idea that negates that concern.  A safety deposit box, the contents of which disappear (turn over to Kurac) upon failure to pay your rent.

My point exactly. And yes, when they inevitably fail to pay the rent for whatever reason, Kurac takes the loot.

More PCs in Luir's means more for the Fist and Trade-Ops to do there, whether it's cracking down on troublemakers or enjoying a drink and discussing the latest news, and the movements of creatures and people in the area. I don't see how it could hurt to have a small PC population to represent the vNPC population and keep things fun for not just Kuraccis, but also those passing through for trade.

[evilcabbage]

No. Nenyuk has a monopoly on housing and renting spaces. Luirs is the way it is because it's a small outpost with a full standing army. Like others have said, if you want to live in Luirs, join Kurac. It's NOT as bad as people say it is. It's ACTUALLY quite a lot of fun regardless.

[MeTekillot]

Hand off '75 'sids to the nearest Mercenary and say 'Can you keep my things in your locker at the barracks?'. Hope they don't fuck you over.

[Fujikoma]

No. Nenyuk has a monopoly on housing and renting spaces. Luirs is the way it is because it's a small outpost with a full standing army. Like others have said, if you want to live in Luirs, join Kurac. It's NOT as bad as people say it is. It's ACTUALLY quite a lot of fun regardless.

Having spent a good deal of time in Luir's off peak and on, I really must question your idea of "fun". It does have its fun parts, this is true, but there are many slow bits where you're solo emoting for fun while who shows a large number of people playing. A locker doesn't mean the place is going to be overflowing with people, it just means maybe a few more PCs will stick around to represent the virtual population, and maybe those who leave Kurac because Allanak or Tuluk are much more exciting with plots and things going on will be given another reason to pause and think about staying.

Also, Nenyuk? If Kurac wants lockers in Luir's, it's not a city state, and Kurac's word goes. Or, maybe Nenyuk could work out a deal with Kurac to run a locker operation. Again, sometimes you really must consider OOC considerations when making these sorts of decisions. I see nothing but benefit, and the really good thing is it doesn't look like something all that complicated to implement, there are already plenty of places you could just copy paste from, and it's not too out of line with the theme, like apartments would be.

[evilcabbage]

No. Nenyuk has a monopoly on housing and renting spaces. Luirs is the way it is because it's a small outpost with a full standing army. Like others have said, if you want to live in Luirs, join Kurac. It's NOT as bad as people say it is. It's ACTUALLY quite a lot of fun regardless.

Having spent a good deal of time in Luir's off peak and on, I really must question your idea of "fun". It does have its fun parts, this is true, but there are many slow bits where you're solo emoting for fun while who shows a large number of people playing. A locker doesn't mean the place is going to be overflowing with people, it just means maybe a few more PCs will stick around to represent the virtual population, and maybe those who leave Kurac because Allanak or Tuluk are much more exciting with plots and things going on will be given another reason to pause and think about staying.

Also, Nenyuk? If Kurac wants lockers in Luir's, it's not a city state, and Kurac's word goes. Or, maybe Nenyuk could work out a deal with Kurac to run a locker operation. Again, sometimes you really must consider OOC considerations when making these sorts of decisions. I see nothing but benefit, and the really good thing is it doesn't look like something all that complicated to implement, there are already plenty of places you could just copy paste from, and it's not too out of line with the theme, like apartments would be.

Merchant Houses don't step on other Merchant House toes. Nenyuk is the administrator of housing and money in -general- Kurac -cannot- fuck with Nenyuk, because where do you think Kurac stores their money?

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

I'm uber alright with lockers in Luir's. Makes a ton of sense. I also support the idea of maybe one or two warehouses, since Luir's serves as a waypoint for the Known World.

But lockers? Yes, lockers work, and don't really create any sort of pretty inviting atmosphere or anything. I am fully behind this.

[evilcabbage]

I'm uber alright with lockers in Luir's. Makes a ton of sense. I also support the idea of maybe one or two warehouses, since Luir's serves as a waypoint for the Known World.

But lockers? Yes, lockers work, and don't really create any sort of pretty inviting atmosphere or anything. I am fully behind this.

I think Luirs is great and amazing the way it is, and it doesn't need anything more.

[Ouroboros]

I can't be the only one who misread the topic as "IKEA: Luir's storage lockers."

But yeah, this would help bring more life to the Outpost, without the IC and OOC issues apartments would bring. Like 7DV, I've also felt that at least one warehouse should be an option for the Outpost, due mainly to the massive amount of trade traffic that goes through. But lockers would certainly help the situation and permit Bailey residents to be practically feasible.

As far as Nenyuk goes... Its reach regarding housing extends to where it's permitted to extend, and primarily where it's been permitted to build. As far as the Outpost goes, Kurac owns every grain of sand there and Nenyuk is permitted to run a bank from which they profit. What Kurac chooses to do with it's property concerns no one but Kurac. It -could- choose to make a warehouse available through Nenyuk and collect rent from, leaving the headache of administration to Nenyuk at whatever rent increase they'd want to tack on to make their profit.

I think Luirs is great and amazing the way it is, and it doesn't need anything more.

I think you're great and amazing the way you are, and don't need to add anything more. To this discussion.

[evilcabbage]

I can't be the only one who misread the topic as "IKEA: Luir's storage lockers."

But yeah, this would help bring more life to the Outpost, without the IC and OOC issues apartments would bring. Like 7DV, I've also felt that at least one warehouse should be an option for the Outpost, due mainly to the massive amount of trade traffic that goes through. But lockers would certainly help the situation and permit Bailey residents to be practically feasible.

As far as Nenyuk goes... Its reach regarding housing extends to where it's permitted to extend, and primarily where it's been permitted to build. As far as the Outpost goes, Kurac owns every grain of sand there and Nenyuk is permitted to run a bank from which they profit. What Kurac chooses to do with it's property concerns no one but Kurac. It -could- choose to make a warehouse available through Nenyuk and collect rent from, leaving the headache of administration to Nenyuk at whatever rent increase they'd want to tack on to make their profit.

I think Luirs is great and amazing the way it is, and it doesn't need anything more.

I think you're great and amazing the way you are, and don't need to add anything more. To this discussion.

Okay, here, I'll put it this way.

Luirs is too small as it is, it has too much in it as it is, to be able to afford extra stuff being added to it. That place is a claustrophobic region with a modicum of space taken up by a ton of stuff.

[Fujikoma]

Yes, we get it, you don't like the idea, and that's fine.

[DustMight]

The lack of storage in Luir's enhances its atmosphere of being a place of transition and I fully support that. It's "between worlds" and mostly peopled by itinerants and Kuraci.   

There are tents and things along the outposts walls that someone could attempt to claim/try to live there - though it would be hard to "store stuff" without having it stolen.

That said - it would be cool if someone would craft up a bunch of lockers, lay them out and start charging for the rental space.  This could be done, clumsily, my a group of PCs unti they have permission/power/coin to hire an NPC guard or two.  It might work - might not.  Would be interesting just to see.

<derail >That said, I've always wanted to play a character that offered a type of "life insurance" to characters - they deposit a few large and upon a certain date/time if they have not contacted the insurer - they money (perhaps with interest) goes to person who holds the policy, named in advance - but that's a whole other thread. </derail>

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

That idea, while awesome, would require a space for the original PCs to be able to rent. Currently, pretty impossible code-wise.

Luir's can be a place of transition, but so is a shipping yard. There's storage to be had in a shipping yard, no reason not to have storage in Luir's.

[Fujikoma]

Personally, I'd like to hear what the players of various Kurac employees would have to say about this... We know there's non-Kurac NPC and vNPC population living there, and maybe a few PCs every now and then (more since the war), just a locker, and once it's full, tough shit, time to get rid of something.

And on the life insurance policy... That might just be better than putting it in the bank (Nenyuk is sitting on a huge pile of my previous PCs' coins), providing you can draw from it while you're still living if need be, and that the life insurance agent and/or their successors is/are -extremely- careful with themselves.

[Malken]

Again, it's a very IC reason why your idea wouldn't work in Luir's (or Red Storm, for that matter).. The outpost is a very crowded area and any tiny spot within the walls are at a premium.. If Kurac could find a spot to fit something else in this very overly-crowded area, they would go for something that would max out their profit, and not something that would just help out the folks visiting it (They probably don't even -want- people to stick around for long, again, you can easily find out ICly about their stand on semi-permanent "visitors"..)

Armageddon is not a game where you can just "add a couple of rooms and a script", everything is calculated and taken on an IC-reality level.

If you can find an area within the walls where lockers would make sense, I would suggest taking it up with whoever controls Kurac at the moment. I can guarantee you that they'll have an IC explanation as to why your idea is not feasible on an IC level.

Again, I'm not trying to tell you that your idea is dumb or anything, I'm just trying to explain to you why it doesn't make sense ICly why Kurac would have lockers to begin with.

And for the record, I'm very pro helping out people on an OOC level to make up for real life situations.

[DustMight]

Again, it's a very IC reason why your idea wouldn't work in Luir's (or Red Storm, for that matter)..

This is tough to defend, really, considering that in the past we have seen big changes in the game that are retroactively supported by documentation and rationalization.
If staff wanted this to happen, they would find an IC reason to make it happen.  After all, the story is currently being written. Examples that come to mind are the once ubiquitous brass lanterns, bronze arm-guards and occasional metal bracers or perhaps halfliings that once mingled with the general population and joined clans.

The game changes. A recent example is the Tuluki templarate changes - and though while was handled very smoothly by the staff it is an equally momentous change.

There is nothing to stop Kurac from deciding, for example, to open the most plush Zalanthanesque Hilton in Luir's.  It may not be your vision of what Kurac is now, but it would become, later, your understanding of what Kurac is.

There was, at one time, no tents along the walls.  The tents currently there hint at the idea of semi-regular residents of one type or another - even if just seasonal hunters, traders, whatever.

There are all types of IC arguments you could make to support further storage/rooms and IC arguments against it.

So simply arguing "No, not IC for <reason>" isn't a strong argument (unless coming from staff, of course - since they are writing the story) but neither is "It makes sense for this IC <reason>.

To me, OOC function of Luir's on a whole is a place of unsettled transition and keeping people from building their little craft studios in apartments there serves that function.
It might be cool to have other options (as I mentioned) though I would personally want them very insecure, limited and gritty.  I certainly wouldn't want a good hunk of our player-base living in Luir's.

I might be ok with even less mercantile support in Luirs - fewer shops and such - so that there is a greater need to travel between the far-flung city states.  I wonder what would happen if Luir's suddenly didn't have a non-Kuraci stable?  That would have an interesting impact indeed.  Or maybe not?   

[Molten Heart]

Lockers would make Luir's more attractive to independents but is that a good thing?  I'm not sure either way.  Luir's is more of a transient town where people bump into each other as they are going somewhere else.  The only people that'd make use of the lockers would be resident independents and "outlaw" types.  It'd be a boon for those types but what would it offer the game as a whole?  An increased population density?  That'd pull players from other areas (not that this is bad but some might think so) depriving clans of members and plots of participants.  Many of the interesting things that go on in the game revolve around clans, creating lockers would seem to disincentivize join clans, which seems counter to what the staff try to do.  Lockers would be cool, but will they promote interaction and roleplay?  I haven't seen anyone with a real good answer to that question.

[Fujikoma]

I figure if someone is willing to live out of a locker in an outpost away from all the awesome action, then there are very few things the other clans have to offer them. And yes, there are already virtual independants living in Luir's. Most of the vendors in the market I don't think are Kuracci, though at least three of them are. And yes, there would be a slight pull, but considering how active those areas are, well, do they need much more incentive? I personally think that variety in the choices of places to live is a good thing.

And even without the lockers, there will be the rare soul who chooses to live there despite the lack of accommodation, the supposed "danger" from the Kuraccis (don't fuck around and it shouldn't be a big problem, just like anywhere else make yourself useful and entertaining and you won't seem like such a drain, I don't see what there is to find out ICly, other than if you're a turd you're going to get buried out in the sands with the rest of the feces, but, I will try that and see what their stance is someday), well, I really don't see it, anymore than I would from the powers that be in the bigger city states. If anything, in the bigger cities there's actually many factions so many more people to worry about displeasing.

I think semi-permanent residents would add a bit of flavor to the outpost, I may have said this before. Yes, I know it's a transitional point for merchants, hunters, travelers, but it's always nice to go somewhere and -know- someone is going to be there to interact with, so you're not sitting there emoting about staring at a wall. Lockers would not make Luir's much more desirable to live in, in my opinion, just slightly more workable, should you choose that route.

It can be done without lockers, it's just, a pain in the bum.

[Reiloth]

I think it's a very modern, westerner ideal to be able to 'collect a lot of stuff, and put it in a room, and put a door on that room, and a lock on that door'.

I like to think of Luir's like Deadwood -- People are usually passing through, and if they want to stick around, they better have a good reason (and they are going to be closely watched). The Outpost isn't a staging ground for anyone besides House Kurac -- If you're running business out of there, Kurac not only gets a cut, but it's usually the majority. You don't like it? Find another Outpost that's run by a Merchant House instead of a Templarate.

There are plenty of freedoms afforded in Luir's Outpost -- Storage Facilities just isn't one of them. And neither are apartments.

Now having 'rentable rooms' that you can flop down in for a night for X coin, either for your salacious desires or just a private bed to sleep on, makes sense to me. Not having storage spaces pushes home that your piddly indy hunter can't really get by on their own -- Or rather, they can get by day to day, but they aren't going to have a place to put their 200 pelts. You want storage? Join a clan.

All adding storage spaces would do is further reinforce that 'being an indy hunter is cool, they can get (master) craft and make shit for you faster than <insert GMH> here, treat them great!'

All adding apartments to Luir's would do is provide places for peeps to sex in (and hoard your stuff). I don't really see the reason to do it, personally.

[Jingo]

Even in deadwood there was nothing stopping you from putting a bunch of stuff under a tarp and then hiring someone to watch that tarp while you sleep. In fact, it's in the first episode.

In fact, if Kurac had any intention of maximizing profit, they should consider renting out all of that unused space in the bailey.

[DustMight]

In fact, if Kurac had any intention of maximizing profit, they should consider renting out all of that unused space in the bailey.

They may want that space free for defensive reasons?

[Molten Heart]

In fact, if Kurac had any intention of maximizing profit, they should consider renting out all of that unused space in the bailey.

They may want that space free for defensive reasons?

Well... if Luir's gets invaded (again), it'd be nice if there was a bunch people there to act as a buffer.  :-)