Allanaki City Elves

[spicemustflow]

Elves have a higher wisdom so therefore are 'smarter' as such on average than roundears, but they are handicapped in the World Domination area by their own mental quirks.

What he said. Elves are supposed to be quick thinkers, but that doesn't necessarily translate into long term planning ability or even common sense. This is why there isn't no elven civilization, even in areas where they are in significant majority (Tablelands if I'm not wrong). They're paranoid sociopaths and, as such, it's incredibly hard for them to work together. Think about why a race smarter than humans still lives in tents or reclaimed buildings.

Still, a tribe that lasts for more than a generation has to understand the power dynamics of the world around them and that knowledge gets passed on to youngsters.

I don't really need coded buildings or guards, I'd be as happy as an elf with a hand in your pocket if we got several uncoded tribes, one which we have to choose at chargen. The relative elven power will come by itself then.

[Quirk]

I very much like the idea of uncoded tribes that could be chosen at chargen. The more hurdles that can be taken down to encourage people to play tribal elves, the better.

Still, I have a few reservations.

Without some kind of clan board, it would be hard to know who was in your tribe. I foresee a situation arising all too frequently where old, experienced members of the tribe get hauled in to answer for the misdeeds of new members they've never even heard of.

Following from this, lack of formal support would make tribal cohesion and discipline difficult. The new tribe member doesn't know who matters in the tribe, and the members who matter don't have any influence over the new members save what these choose to observe. The tribe would be unable to keep alliances or react effectively to enemies. Tribal survival could be imperiled by a handful of newbies who've read just enough of the elven docs to roll up a bunch of prolifically inept thieves.

It would be harder for the imms to provide guidance without a clan board or a focal meeting point - which again would endanger tribal survival.

Smaller issues that I think are worth noting:

• An uncoded tribe couldn't possibly allow non-mundane roles - there'd be a danger of creating a rainbow coalition of mages.
• The temptation for players to fix the tribe's weaknesses via unsupervised OOC contact could prove problematic.
• Some kind of tribal markings or insignia would need to be devised so elves of different tribes meeting for the first time don't have to go through an awkward introduction to realise they're meant to be enemies. Without coded support, this would have to be done on an honesty system, or via some kind of in-desc tattoo cross-checked against tribal affiliation on approval.

These might not be insurmountable. There's possibly territory to explore between the tight-knit tribe and the entirely tribeless elf - perhaps some tribes have been scattered through past mistakes and exist spread throughout the city as little disconnected pockets. These could fuse together again awkwardly and organically. Maybe that new elf making trouble with the Kadians is of the Dustless Ones, but he's not associated with the Dustless Ones of Theyak's Walk. The latter may disavow the former, or try to convince him to fall in line with their interests. And if the Dustless Ones of Theyak's Walk make a powerful enemy and get wiped out, it needn't mean no other groups of Dustless Ones will rise in the city.

Of course, such a patchwork tribe, its VNPC members scattered and unhelpful, would have little IC sway compared to a tribe both united and numerous. Still, I think it could go a little way to alleviate the miseries of the tribeless elf.

As far as capping tribal numbers goes, there could be a list of acceptable uncoded tribes which was updated periodically, so any tribe becoming too numerous could have the door closed for admissions until they reduced in numbers again.

I'm open to other ideas. Anyone got any thoughts on how uncoded tribes could work, or can see difficulties I've not spotted?

[spicemustflow]

Well, new clan boards are easy to put in. When I said uncoded, I excluded the boards. As you said, they are essential for those new tribes to function.

I think that's a pretty good solution in this situation when there's relatively little player interest in elves and little manpower from staff to spare. What we need is several blurbs about how the tribe works and what they do. In time, players would fill in the rest. It's happened before, I think.

Such tribes could easily be semi-nomadic, as is proper for city elves. Or stationary, or split or whatever.

[solera]

This sounds good. I'd like there still to be the option for c-elves to be a tribe of one PC and a handful of VPC's trying to hang on there in the 'rinth, or southside.

[i love toilets]

Le Southside Elf Tribe Page

The Ari Sah: Pale red eyes are a common trait in this family. They have feuded with the Negahna for generations, for reasons which are now forgotten. Their primary sources of income are the renting of apartments and spice running. They do not suffer breeds, 'gickers and mutants to exist. They are known to be serious assholes when the social climate permits.

The Negahna: A large tribe which deals in trade and business of every kind, with every kind of client and employer that is willing to deal with them. They can as easily be found talking to Templars or soldiers in the Silver Ginka as they can entertaining elves in a rinthi establishment. This tribe does not suffer breeds to exist.

The Lenah Tri: Curly or wavy black hair is common in this family. Their main sources of income are bardic services, finished dry goods and their famous liquors and drinks. Some of the city's most skilled assassins come from this family.



Something like that basically?

[Barsook]

Isn't that IC info though?

[HavokBlue]

What? Why would it be IC info? He just made up a bunch of random tribes as an example of an elven tribal page.

[Barsook]

Oh, I can read.

[Fujikoma]

I think some Allanaki tribes would definitely make the race more playable. I've only played one, and it was fun, but having a tribe to give direction, a good example, and support would definitely make things easier.

[spicemustflow]

Le Southside Elf Tribe Page

The Ari Sah: Pale red eyes are a common trait in this family. They have feuded with the Negahna for generations, for reasons which are now forgotten. Their primary sources of income are the renting of apartments and spice running. They do not suffer breeds, 'gickers and mutants to exist. They are known to be serious assholes when the social climate permits.

The Negahna: A large tribe which deals in trade and business of every kind, with every kind of client and employer that is willing to deal with them. They can as easily be found talking to Templars or soldiers in the Silver Ginka as they can entertaining elves in a rinthi establishment. This tribe does not suffer breeds to exist.

The Lenah Tri: Curly or wavy black hair is common in this family. Their main sources of income are bardic services, finished dry goods and their famous liquors and drinks. Some of the city's most skilled assassins come from this family.



Something like that basically?

Exactly. I even like the names you came up with.

[Fujikoma]

Only thing that makes me wonder in the sample descriptions is: two out of three tribes don't suffer breeds to exist. What does this mean, does this mean the rabidly hunt them down and exterminate them? Or does it just mean if one of their women gives birth to something suspected of being part roundear it gets tossed in the body pile? The latter sounds understandable, if somewhat difficult and potentially failure prone. The former sounds ridiculous.

[spicemustflow]

Probably the latter but it doesn't matter anyway, what he wrote are just examples. He showed how easy it would be to come up with as many virtual tribes as both cities need.

That being said, I like having the Hand and Jaxa Pah, someone has to be the boss.

[Fujikoma]

How about a tribe of Nakki hunters, have to have some kind of outdoorsy subguild for things like direction sense and other utility things, or maybe require the Nomad subguild and give them some kind of tribal background (though this would make it difficult to use a bow if not a warrior), grudgingly accepts breeds because they can be rangers and skin things like nobody's business and make cures and other useful things. Sometimes they do mercenary work for coin. Sometimes journey to Luir's and Blackwing for equipment like tents, clothing, armor and weaponry.

A tribe of stuck up merchant elves who grudgingly do business with the hunter elves and laugh behind their back at the bad deal they gave them, pays protection to Jaxa Pah and utilizes their services to dispose of troublesome pests, does not tolerate breeds and openly snubs them. They may have a plan to create gear with elven usage in mind so as to make all of the coin they spend on the hunter tribe back.

And a tribe of bard-like elves who play songs, make jokes an devise elaborate pranks for coin. They don't openly snub breeds, but they don't tolerate them within their ranks. They will often harass the other two tribes openly, but behind closed doors will give them a discount for services, as long as the other tribes can tolerate their twisted sense of humor when it comes to breaking into their compounds and apartments and "decorate" them.

[i love toilets]

Only thing that makes me wonder in the sample descriptions is: two out of three tribes don't suffer breeds to exist. What does this mean, does this mean the rabidly hunt them down and exterminate them? Or does it just mean if one of their women gives birth to something suspected of being part roundear it gets tossed in the body pile? The latter sounds understandable, if somewhat difficult and potentially failure prone. The former sounds ridiculous.

The latter. I didn't mean for the list to look like a standard for anything, and I tried using vaguely elvish tribal names. Also they probably should be more flexible. If your tribe's main sources of income are renting apartments and spice running and you come into the game as a member of that tribe, people will automatically think you're a spice runner, which isn't really fair. Of course you could play an exception to the norm, as a weapon trader or something, but this thread exists because we'd like to have southside elves that _aren't_ a damn exception to the norm.

If tribes do get created I'd like the idea of having at least three, with at least two which allow gickers and breeds born in them to live or stay. That way, you don't automatically OOCly know that that gemmed elf is a member of Whatsits tribe, they could also be from GreatSwag tribe, so you don't automatically OOCly assume (particular tribal traits) about the gemmed elf or breed.

[i love toilets]

They will often harass the other two tribes openly, but behind closed doors will give them a discount for services, as long as the other tribes can tolerate their twisted sense of humor when it comes to breaking into their compounds and apartments and "decorate" them.

This, this is the bacon for everything that has been said in this thread

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

Fujikoma, I like that setup. Interdependency. That's real good.

[Fujikoma]

Weeeeee! Praise!

Ok sorry. What I meant was: Thanks! Yeah, I think interdependancey would be a good thing, and maybe some trade on the side with roundears, but with such a large elven population to cater to, that would likely be their first priority, I would think.

[HavokBlue]

The problem with multiple elven tribes is player interest in city elves is generally pretty low even with clan support.

[DustMight]

The problem with multiple elven tribes is player interest in city elves is generally pretty low even with clan support.

Seriously! Who wants to play an elf that can't run AND can't use mounts? 

[RogueGunslinger]

Burglars and pickpockets.

[HavokBlue]

The problem with multiple elven tribes is player interest in city elves is generally pretty low even with clan support.

Seriously! Who wants to play an elf that can't run AND can't use mounts? 

Well you don't play a city elf if you want to run around whacking scrab with your l33t bone swordz. There's plenty you can do in a city, although players don't always seem to see it that way. The problem remains that there is currently no tribal option for southern city elves, and the one that we had had a bunch of issues resulting in playability problems and a lot of stress and extra work staff-side. Multiple city tribes would dilute the already small PC elven population, which is the last thing that needs to happen. We need one solid appealing tribe to gather them all together for playability and fun.

[DustMight]

The problem with multiple elven tribes is player interest in city elves is generally pretty low even with clan support.

Seriously! Who wants to play an elf that can't run AND can't use mounts? 

Well you don't play a city elf if you want to run around whacking scrab with your l33t bone swordz. There's plenty you can do in a city, although players don't always seem to see it that way. The problem remains that there is currently no tribal option for southern city elves, and the one that we had had a bunch of issues resulting in playability problems and a lot of stress and extra work staff-side. Multiple city tribes would dilute the already small PC elven population, which is the last thing that needs to happen. We need one solid appealing tribe to gather them all together for playability and fun.

I was just fooling.  I love southern city elves with or without a hard-coded clan.  By southern I mean 'rinthi elves.  South-side city elves make no sense to me unless they are really half-breeds.

[Potaje]

I could see something like an entire mini world within the city for elves, with the idea of interdependence creating a political accord within that. Where as one might see among the round ears greater merchant houses, at their level at least, and not at the level of nobles and above. But within their own sphere in the city there elves would have a smaller world of political intrigue among the three tribes or what have you. With one seeking a controlling dominance over the others to hold influence and be a minor player in the Human world of the city.

[HavokBlue]

The problem with multiple elven tribes is player interest in city elves is generally pretty low even with clan support.

Seriously! Who wants to play an elf that can't run AND can't use mounts? 

Well you don't play a city elf if you want to run around whacking scrab with your l33t bone swordz. There's plenty you can do in a city, although players don't always seem to see it that way. The problem remains that there is currently no tribal option for southern city elves, and the one that we had had a bunch of issues resulting in playability problems and a lot of stress and extra work staff-side. Multiple city tribes would dilute the already small PC elven population, which is the last thing that needs to happen. We need one solid appealing tribe to gather them all together for playability and fun.

I was just fooling.  I love southern city elves with or without a hard-coded clan.  By southern I mean 'rinthi elves.  South-side city elves make no sense to me unless they are really half-breeds.

I'm not sure why elves outside of the Rinth make no sense to you. The documentation and coded game world both support city elves all over Allanak, not only in the eastside of the Labyrinth, but the westside and southside as well. There are elven shopkeepers in high profile locations in the common quarter, and there are plenty of elven NPCs to reflect the sizable elven population.

[Quirk]

I very much dislike the idea of elven tribal interdependence.

If elves were able to overcome their differences and find some measure of racial solidarity, they would be a force to be reckoned with. The reason they aren't is precisely because they're so very bad at working together. Elven tribes don't trust each other, and don't feel kinship. I imagine in many ways an elven tribe would prefer to deal with the roundears, who aren't directly competition in the same way, than another tribe; while neither can be trusted, the other tribe is elvenkind and so is greatly superior to the roundears in scheming, in trickery, in knowing malevolence.

If we were to create uncoded tribes, I'd prefer to see two or three geared from the outset to be at each others' throats, viciously so. That way, if PC elves ever grow numerous, the division between tribes that is the perpetual elven weakness will be there waiting to keep them from becoming more of a force than they should be. Coded tribes require more support, and have more oversight, and I think a single one would be a substantial improvement.