Remember Me

[Yummri]

Hi, I am a new player to the game. I'm very interested in RP and have played an rp intensive game for 7yrs. I'm trying to get into Arm and so far I've been having fun. But I've had a few issues with ease of use.

One of these issues is the sdesc system. Now the game I played uses a sdesc system when you don' know peoples names. This is perfectly understandable right? What that game does have that this one doesn't is a @remember system.

Simply when you meat a person you have the option to @remember them as either a reference you made to them or by their name(once gien it) that would replace the sdesc with whatever you remembered them as. This would of course allow you to see who you have met/recognize and who you have not. Without having to memorize 100 similar sdescs and what they wear/look like or set it up in your client for every person you meet. This would work with people not knowing each othe ras you would still have to target them with pronurs so other peole wouldn't learn their names unless introduced.

@remember sdesc as <name> would be the syntax. And from my understanding it wold not be an overly hard thing to implement. But I don't kow the Arm coding system.

Would be a good way to increase usability for everyone. Any thoughts?

[Barzalene]

I think yours is a really understandable position. This request comes up time to time. If I tell you that in a month or two you'll a) get better at remember who is who, b) prefer it the way it is, c) find this more realistic, will you be believe me?

There are moments in real life where you recognize someone and can't remember their name. It's awkward.

Even more awkward is when you see Sally in a crowd and you yell Sally! Sally! and you wave like a lunatic. People turn and stare at you. As you look into Sally's blank face and realize she's a complete stranger, you wish you could disappear.

A remember system takes away these uncomfortable moments. And I think on Arm, it's alright to have uncomfortable moments.

Sorry for being long winded. Someone will be right along to say something more succinctly.

[valeria]

There are almost certainly ways to do this with your MUD client if it bugs you!

That said, I would never use something like this (because like Barz said, I've very much gotten used to and come to love viewing people by sdescs), but I can see how some people would prefer it.  I don't think it would hurt any.

[Harmless]

I have played muds with similar @remember-like systems in the past and I don't miss that feature.

It takes getting used to but now I am quite accustomed to Arma's system.

It is only an issue when two people have identical sdescs... That is very rare. If it is a problem, submit a request with the main website.

[Incognito]

Paper, pen, list - that's the best way to remember people.

The best part is - looking at your list a few years down the line and reminiscing

[Yummri]

Here is the thing.. Moments where you thin you recognize someone could still be a feature, especially if codded that after a while you may not recognize them right away and it may take them speak to recognize voice etc which can be done.

Also for those people who like the system as it is no one would be forcing you to use it, but the choice should be there.

As a further point, this does not aid in accessibility for any visually impaired players, of which I am one and know a few trying to get into the game but finding system like this which ass to the complication of play.

As a side note. I have no idea how to do that with my client. I'm using MUSHcliet so if someone could tell me how to do this I would appreciate it, but simply get used to it isn't something that is suitible for everyoe and not for lack of trying. Especially as a newbie.

[Barsook]

Paper, pen, list - that's the best way to remember people.

Or use your friendly text editor on your computer to keep a list and other things.  But still roleplaying it works better if you have a PC with low wisdom or one that forgets things fast.  Or if they haven't seen this person for awhile.

[ShaLeah]

I keep a note pad open every time I log on and meet someone, it takes a while for me to remember someone who actually matters to my character. It takes getting used to.

[Barzalene]

As a further point, this does not aid in accessibility for any visually impaired players, of which I am one and know a few trying to get into the game but finding system like this which ass to the complication of play.

As a side note. I have no idea how to do that with my client. I'm using MUSHcliet so if someone could tell me how to do this I would appreciate it, but simply get used to it isn't something that is suitible for everyoe and not for lack of trying. Especially as a newbie.

I think this is a bigger question than this feature in particular.

I don't think we have had (of course, I'm not on staff and not very social with people outside the game, so I could be wrong) many players who are visually impaired. So, the question of accommodation hasn't come up. Or maybe may not have come up, is more accurate. (Since if it has come up, I wouldn't know.)

I don't know how hard it would be to make things easier for text to voice. Or how to make things more intuitive for those making these compensations. I wonder if a list of places where things are not easy to navigate would be worthwhile. I'm not saying they would all be addressed, but at least we'd know what we have to work with.

[Fujikoma]

I have often wondered about the idea of making the game better for the visually impaired. I know on brief mode there are some things you will miss entirely, such as a specific, important hut or building in a place. I prefer to keep brief mode on because my mind will get bogged down with details and I won't be able to handle it, and have only really had one issue, the one with the hut, but where there's one...

I'm not sure how the sdescs impact a screen reader, I do know some people have interesting accents and these may not translate well. I shiver to think what unknown languages do to them. I will say, I couldn't remember hardly anyone when I first started playing, this was kind of annoying but kind of interesting at the same time. As Barzalene said, it gets easier as time goes on, also, it keeps things from getting too easy...

Such as, ok, there's a bounty on Amos, well, I know what Amos looks like, the tall, grey haired man. I see the tall, grey haired man wandering around from a distance, he stops briefly, I (insert disposal method here), and get a bit closer, and realize, hey, this tall, grey haired man wasn't Amos... Oh dear! And he's someone important! I have to cover this up somehow!

And yes, the awkward not remembering someone moments tend to make the game more believable. I don't make a list... I do spam k (for keyword) with a name just to see if it's correct sometimes.

[Yummri]

The sad thing is. Text based games like this one are in high demand for blind players. And there have ben many people who have tried this game in the past and left for reasons of accessibility. I myself am struggling

I have brief mode off and I do miss a lot. Its hard to navigate with brief off and its hard to navigate with it on. Especially as people tend to give directions by referencing stuff in a tile.
This game would see a player increase if some things were done to aid accessibility and I'd be happy to work with an admin to do this or players.

The sdesc thing is hard on a reader simply because we have to read the whole line to figure out who is who and if we aren't sure its a look which is more spam which slows us down greatly.
Again it would be good to see the memory system but then if you haven't seen them in some time it may fade so these moments would still occur while making it easier at least in a temp fashion.

It is a serious issue. I'm really not so worried about outside of cities(I am but its a desert afterall) as I am cities themselves as it is really hard to get people to give directions like go east 3 times, south twice and west 4 times.  But that is how it is easier for us to learn. Ask icly where to find something and directions and then use a texmap. But that is a seperate issue. A lot could be done if people were willing.

[Barzalene]

I think people might be willing. But they'll be more willing if you tell them exactly what you need. If you're specific about how and why. So, they're not guessing and not doing work twice. Of course I'm not a coder. And I should probably shut up.

[Barsook]

Deleted.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

If you use Mushclient, I have a trigger that I use to accomplish this.

Code Select Expand


<triggers>
  <trigger
   custom_colour="14"
   ignore_case="y"
   match="*sdesc*"
   omit_from_output="y"
   send_to="2"
   sequence="100"
  >
  <send>%1NAME, sdesc,%2</send>
  </trigger>
</triggers>



[Yummri]

Barsook, that really only works if you can see to begin with

Well this sdesc thing is one of the things that I would say is needed.

I'm a bit of a scripting novice, I only know how to do simple triggers and aliases. How would I go about implementing that and what would I do to make it work?

[Barsook]

Deleted.

[evilcabbage]

I think you can change the font size and type in MUSH.  But I'm not sure.

Barsook he's COMPLETELY BLIND.

As in he uses a SCREEN READER.

[Barsook]

Deleted.

[evilcabbage]

..... You're trolling. It's not cool, especially when we have totally blind players. Please cease.

[RogueGunslinger]

Pretty clear she didn't realize, actually. 

Anyways, I'd just like to point out how amazing it is that blind people can play our game.

[Barsook]

Pretty clear she didn't realize, actually. 

That was the case and I'm sorry for pushing to far.

[Jherlen]

If Arm did implement such a memory system, I'm guessing we would only have it replace sdescs for people who have no hoods/facewraps/masks on, right? It stretches things a bit to say once you 'remember dude as Amos' you're always going to recognize him no matter what he's wearing or how covered up he is.

Also, what happens if someone changes their sdesc/mdesc? I'm guessing people would have to lose memory of the character? And how often would we need to "re-remember" someone if memories wore off? Once a Zalanthan year? Longer/shorter?

It could get kind of awkward when you suddenly forget your heartmate (ha ha) that you've been living with for a year IG and they revert back to their sdesc, which you may have forgotten OOCly from not seeing in a while.

None of this is to say it's a bad idea, I'm just wondering about the details.

[Lizzie]

If Arm did implement such a memory system, I'm guessing we would only have it replace sdescs for people who have no hoods/facewraps/masks on, right? It stretches things a bit to say once you 'remember dude as Amos' you're always going to recognize him no matter what he's wearing or how covered up he is.

Also, what happens if someone changes their sdesc/mdesc? I'm guessing people would have to lose memory of the character? And how often would we need to "re-remember" someone if memories wore off? Once a Zalanthan year? Longer/shorter?

It could get kind of awkward when you suddenly forget your heartmate (ha ha) that you've been living with for a year IG and they revert back to their sdesc, which you may have forgotten OOCly from not seeing in a while.

None of this is to say it's a bad idea, I'm just wondering about the details.

Not only that, but what if there are more than one tall, handsome man? If your script recognizes "the tall, handsome man" as Amos, but Malik, the tall, handsome man walks into the room..well obviously they're not the same person.

What'd be worse, is if Malik has long billowing blonde hair, Amos has a red-dyed mohawk, Malik is broad-shouldered an barrel-chested while Amos is wiry and androgynous in body type.

You'd have to spend more time fixing that script to accommodate the *other* tall, handsome man, than might be worth having the script in the first place.

[Jherlen]

Yeah, actually I was talking about if this was implemented as a feature "server-side" (so Ginka realizes you remember the 1.tall, muscular man as Amos and the 2.tall, muscular man as Malik and replaces the names before sending you text). You're right that client-side scripting would have those flaws, though.

Another question: what if I remember the tall, muscular man as Amos, but Amos isn't actually a keyword of that PC? I'll see him as Amos, but won't be able to target him that way. Is that a problem? Should the 'remember' feature maybe only work with names that are a keyword on the character, or should it let you target someone with their "remembered name" even if that name isn't a keyword of theirs?

[Yummri]

Actually those are some very good questions. On the game I came from, when a person changed their clothing it was harder to recognise them. If you didn't see them after a few months you wouldn't recognise them.

However, when they spoke you would recognise "the voice". So yes I would agree that that does need to be a feature of such a memory system because memory fades. Or make it an age related thing? Old age sets in, memory starts to fade more. That ould be pretty cool and work with the current system.

I'm happy and open to the suggestions.

But yeah, that is why I suggested the memory system because a scrpt can get really hard when a memory system would fix the problems of a script.

As a side note, I kinda figured that people may of not got that I am using a reader.

[Cabooze]

If Arm did implement such a memory system, I'm guessing we would only have it replace sdescs for people who have no hoods/facewraps/masks on, right? It stretches things a bit to say once you 'remember dude as Amos' you're always going to recognize him no matter what he's wearing or how covered up he is.

Also, what happens if someone changes their sdesc/mdesc? I'm guessing people would have to lose memory of the character? And how often would we need to "re-remember" someone if memories wore off? Once a Zalanthan year? Longer/shorter?

It could get kind of awkward when you suddenly forget your heartmate (ha ha) that you've been living with for a year IG and they revert back to their sdesc, which you may have forgotten OOCly from not seeing in a while.

None of this is to say it's a bad idea, I'm just wondering about the details.

Not only that, but what if there are more than one tall, handsome man? If your script recognizes "the tall, handsome man" as Amos, but Malik, the tall, handsome man walks into the room..well obviously they're not the same person.

What'd be worse, is if Malik has long billowing blonde hair, Amos has a red-dyed mohawk, Malik is broad-shouldered an barrel-chested while Amos is wiry and androgynous in body type.

You'd have to spend more time fixing that script to accommodate the *other* tall, handsome man, than might be worth having the script in the first place.

Then again you could just "assess" who you think the person is. If the person isn't who you think they are, then you simply don't recognize them.

[evilcabbage]

Serverside in my experience on other MUDs the name of the person is appended to the end or beginning of the SDesc in question which, yes, allowed immortals and the MUD to differentiate between who is who.

[Yummri]

Well, on the MOO I came from.(sorry I know I keep saying that but its my best reffrencing point because most other rp games don't use a system like this from my experience.) You would see the sdesc till they named themselves or you named them. It would overwrite the sdesc entirely for that person only and when using the name it wouldn't show the name to anyone who did't know it.

Tall fat, man is standing here drinking a glass of wine.

Remember fat as Davin

Davin is standing here drinking a glass of wine.

I personally think this system would give people the option. You don't have to use it if you don't need to. But it is there for those who might.

[evilcabbage]

I think it makes more sense that after many years you might forget who that person is.

If I don't see a person in game for like, 3-4 RL days, I -actually- do forget sometimes who they are. More realistic that way. I prefer it stay that way.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

I support a naming system.

[Fujikoma]

While I think it would take something away from the game to have a naming system, I think it would add much more in making the game accessible to a wider range of players, so I, personally would support it.

I guess if I don't like the naming system, I could choose not to use it. One question, though, from a distance, should you see the sdescs, or the names? I'd prefer the former but am interested in hearing what others think.

EDIT: What about some kind of hidden skill level, directly linked to the naming system, how many times you hear their name in conversation while they're in the room, how many times you use ~person or %person for that particular person, makes you more likely to remember them for longer and spot them at a distance?

How should this work with added keywords, say, if a person has the keyword Bob, but his real name is Robert, and you add Bob and use that, should that be a separate skill, based on remembering Bob and not Robert?

A recognition system would make it harder to pull off nasty tricks, though I have no experience with those, yet, I'd think, like lobbing poop at that templar from little ways off and hightailing it out of town.

But with hoods and facewraps, and false mustaches, maybe the person making a skill check gets a penalty to the recognition factor, increasing with each added device?

[Yummri]

I'm of the opinion that face wraps, hoods and the like should make it harder not impossible to remember someone and that distance would make it hard to remember someone.

I'm also off the opinion that being hidden would make it harder to remember someone someone and that if you don't see them for a year or so you would find it really hard to remember someone.

The idea being you could only remember them if they are in the same room. Not from 4 rooms down the road.

[Harmless]

So... Tintin++ can do this rather easily.

#substitute {the tall, muscular man} {Amos, the tall, muscular man}. Or simply {Amos}.

Danger: identical sdescs. But you can turn them off as easily as you make them.

I don't know if tintin++ supports a reader. It is entirely console based. I use it exclusively and am happy to orient you if desired. PM me if interested.

[evilcabbage]

I think you're trying to make a game easier when it's supposed to be difficult. I'm quite happy not having names, and I would hate to see such a feature -ever- implemented. It would take away from the expeirence.

[RogueGunslinger]

I think you're trying to make a game easier when it's supposed to be difficult. I'm quite happy not having names, and I would hate to see such a feature -ever- implemented. It would take away from the expeirence.

I think you're confusing the way the game is meant to be harsh icly with the way the code is inherently unforgiving, and sometimes clunky. They are not one in the same, and the latter is from what I've seen, not intentional in Armageddon.

[Fujikoma]

I think you're trying to make a game easier when it's supposed to be difficult. I'm quite happy not having names, and I would hate to see such a feature -ever- implemented. It would take away from the expeirence.

The issue here is not trying to make the game "easier", but more accessible to the visually impaired. They tend to use programs called "screen readers" to play muds. You probably won't be able to play halo with them, but with a few minor tweaks you can play muds with them...

My limited understanding is that a screen reader reads the words on the screen aloud... I don't know if much can be done about NPC sdescs, but PC at least could be shortened by a remember command, which, of course, would have to have limitations, so at least it's not completely obvious who everyone is, until you meet them, interact with them, way them so many times, etc.... My idea would be to make remembering each person a skill check, a skill check hampered by things like distance, facewraps, raised hoods, false mustaches, other things. Would I use the command? Probably not. I've rather grown to like things the way they are, but it's not something for me, and I wouldn't have to use it.

The thing I think there's no work around for, though, are the accents some players creatively adopt. I've done it myself, there's no way around it and I'm not sure screen readers adjust for such things, although, I've never played with one so I'm completely ignorant. I know they don't translate that leet speak garbage so well. I imagine the burden would be eased significantly if a very social character were able to use a remember function to shorten the number of words somewhat.

It still wouldn't be easy, wouldn't be easier by much, but it would be a step toward making the game more accessible. Anyway, just throwing my opinion out there, feel free to disagree, I realize I don't speak from experience being visually impaired, nor have I played the game so long. My only point is "Get used to it." fails to address the difficulty those who are visually impaired face when encountering a game like this, a game they could be playing.

I think along with that, it would be neat if certain buildings and terrain hazards would show up in brief mode. The latter I'm not real sure about, I've heard some of those are easy to miss if you're not looking at room descs, the former I know I've missed because I use brief mode, my concentration tends to be somewhat limited and I'll quickly lose track of where I am if I can't scroll back up, leading to much wandering, death by thirst and starvation.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

I'd use the shit out of it. Probably. I dunno. The option would be cool. Certainly not something I'll go to war to have, though.

[Yummri]

The idea is not to make the game easier at all because one of the things that drew me in was that life is harsh. But it is about shortening the lines I have to read to mean I cand others in my position can keep up.

Anyone with full sight can skim read. We don't have that. Our readers have to pick out every word and read it back to us. And the point would be that it is a choice. It doesn't take anything away from the game because I am fully in support of this command having limitations such as needing a name to remember them and having to be present with them to remember them. Not just hearing a name and a descrpion and knowing who they are. That would be rather silly and take away from rp of learning who people are. You may be told and then actually have to meet them to remember them.

Accents aren't so much a big deal. it adds to the flavor and while it can be hard to understand at first somethimes "get use to it" strongly applies. I don't think its far to really say it applies in this instance. And a player retention factor the game would have more players if certain things were made more accessible. I'm stubborn I personally can try to adapt. Not everyone is of the mindset. They see not-accessible and just leave. The lack of new blood takes away from a game much more than a remember system which you don't have to use to make it more accessible.

[Fujikoma]

Yummri has a point about player retention. On some muds I've played, the visually impaired have actually made up a pretty damn good percentage of the player-base, which is the only reason I know any thing at all about screen-readers... Combat is hard enough to keep up with if you can see, with brief mode on, when there's enough going on at once, such as a swarm scenario. I can imagine that would lock a screenreader up, but it locks my brain up too, still, at least I can skim and see that "Jimbo needs HELP!" and maybe pull someone out, thus increasing everyone's survival chances.

Then again, that big storm dragon on ancient anguish is a spammy beast with a large number of attacks per turn, complete with ascii graphics for each special attack and can, quite easilly, murder someone it's not even attacking, (My level 18 elven rogue managed to survive the dang thing in a party run by Bahzi, it was pretty wild, he thought it was hilarious that I lived, though he did have a decent level half-elven cleric keeping my HP up), not to mention going on an xp run through a certain cave with a pair of rangers spamming all the skinning skills, their wolves dismembering ratmen everywhere, flesh, blood, severed limbs, just dizzying, I've almost fallen out of my chair being hypnotized by the walls of text. Some games are more accessible than others. The rangers and storm dragons of ancient anguish are considerably more spammy than the worst of swarms I've seen IG (barring HRPT, never been in the middle of one, so can't say).

But I would think it highly considerate to take the visually impaired portion of the community into account when tweaking game design, their choices of what kinds of games they can play are somewhat limited depending upon impairment, they like to play games too, so as far as muds are concerned, they can actually make up a fair portion of a game's player base through the use of screen readers and such.

[evilcabbage]

This is something that I believe many in the staff (but I am not speaking for them, it is my belief) would probably say would be too detrimental to the MUD to be of any use. It has a lot of room for abuse by the playerbase, and that alone is enough reason to not do it. I'm sorry that you're visually impaired, and I'm sorry that you have a difficult time with some facets of the MUD, but honestly, it's going to be harder for you. The best thing I can say is try to tough it out and eventually develop yourself to the point where you can play the MUD efficiently the way it is now.

[Harmless]

So.... Visually impaired players, I ask you, what mud client are you using? We have savvy folks here who can help you, I think.

[Yummri]

Its open to abuse? Its only open to abuse if you code it as such. And at not point did I say I would of liked it to be perfect and without flaws because a memory is flawed. And I don't only see the difference between a remember command to change a sdesc into a name. And someone abusing the knowledge of a key word and the description they've read and took a list of. Both are opening to abuse in equal terms.

But just tough it out isn't exactly doable. Some people don't have their reader as fast as I have mine they just can't. There are a lot of visually impaired people who are looking for a game just like this one, who will look at this, say what...where, how...omg the spam and log right out. I know that because I've already heard from a bunch that say they've tried the game and the lack of accessibility made it far to hard. Your right the game is already harder on me and anyone in my position. But why does it have to be needlessly so for the sake of change.

Taking an out of game list doesn't work for us the same as it does for you. We switch windows to add a name to a notepad file and we miss everything that has passed in the room. We have to scroll up line by line to where we last were and then we are even further behind. Each person's sdesc in combat is something we have to go through just to see if they were hit and that slows us down. So on that premise you've taken combat out of the option too. Again a needless limitation.

It makes sense that we make up a large portion of players because text-based is exactly what our readers are for.

As for the client issue I'm on mushclient. But others use a verity of clients and adding scripts etc can get complicated with readers too. And aking triggers that are complex poses the same issues as a notepad file and trying to read through that when things are going on. Though I appreciate the thought.

If a remember system isn't the way to go fine. But something needs doing. I'm open to ides that work for the games benefit as well as encouraging players  that are right now being excluded.

[Jherlen]

I don't think it's very constructive to try and put words in staff's mouths and say they would/would not like a feature. Also, "just tough it out" is a good response to some IC problems, but not really when someone's having an OOC problem playing the game. New players are great, and maybe there's potential here to attract/keep players that other MUDs are ignoring due to accessibility issues? Instead let's try and focus the debate around how we might use this, or not want it used. We've already done a decent job at enumerating some possible limitations we might want to see:

• hoods/facewraps should make recognizing someone harder or impossible
• seeing someone you remember in the distance should make recognizing them harder
• memory of a person should fade over time, especially if you don't encounter them
• memory should only be possible if you're in the same room with someone (so no "remembering" over the Way, or from seeing someone in another room)
  

How else might this be abused, if staff decided to implement the idea, or how could it add/detract from the game?

If I were a staff member/coder, the more we could flesh out the feature, it would probably make it easier to decide if it's a good fit for the game and how they might implement it if so.

[Fujikoma]

I think distance should also make it a little harder. Some of the more intense moments when I'm out doing things is wondering if that figure in the distance is friend or foe as they slowly approach, as they sit, just a league off, not doing anything. Maybe that's someone I know, maybe it's a raider and I'm about to get robbed, and I only know when they get right up on me, oh hey! It's that guy! Run away!!!

Hood up, facewrap on, distant, you're not really going to be able to make out much.

[Qzzrbl]

I remember there was one MUD that had a special "mode" for blind players.

Like, they had to talk to Staff to get access to it, but was apparently -loads- easier on screen readers.

This was also a mud where short descriptions weren't a thing, but if we had something like this idea that I still hope and pray makes its way in eventually, we could tie that in with an "accessability mode" to act more like your average "intro".

'Cause let's be honest.

Would it -really- make the game any easier if we could see names after an introduction?

I mean reaaaaaally?

I wouldn't mind giving blind people the option so they have less spammy nonsense to sift through.

Why make it a skill or add checks or any silly stuff like that? Seems a bit unnecessary.

Hood up/sdesc masked in any way? No easy recognition.

Face out in the open? Added keyword in place of full sdesc.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

I actually came into this thread to suggest just this, Qzzrbl. Make it a feature staff adds to your account, only for blind people. Make is simple.

>remember keyword nickname.
You'll remember sdesc as nickname, correct? Answer yes or no.
>Yes.
Ok.

Very simple. Very plain.

[Desertman]

Pretty clear she didn't realize, actually. 

That was the case and I'm sorry for pushing to far.

Aahahaha.

Out of all of the people I thought would beat me to picking on the new blind kid, I did not ever think it would be you.

Also, new blind kid, welcome to the game. I take boots without discrimination. 

[FreeRangeVestric]

If this code were to be implemented, I'd say hoods/facewraps/masks would have to make a person fully impossible to recognize, or else we'd essentially be defeating the main function of these items.

[Fujikoma]

I'd think hood plus facemask or wrap, with distance, should make a person near impossible to recognize, myself, without IG years of familiarity... Even then should be questionable. But getting to know your Bynner buddies, and how to fight in large battles with them in close quarters, should be made easier.

[evilcabbage]

I'd think hood plus facemask or wrap, with distance, should make a person near impossible to recognize, myself, without IG years of familiarity... Even then should be questionable. But getting to know your Bynner buddies, and how to fight in large battles with them in close quarters, should be made easier.

Nope. If I slap a hood and facewrap on, I don't -want- to be recognized, and I don't want the code to allow you to just recognize me. It already does that enough as ti is.

The room for abuse is in the fact that the code could outright name a player, based on your system, even if they have a facewrap and hood on.

What that does is allow Joe-blow Soldier to go "HEY THAT WAS AMOS HE MUGGED ME LAST WEEK" because Joe-blow Soldier managed to "dub" or "remember" amos.

What happens then is a series of cmoplaints because Amos was wearing a totally unique outfit to him at the time with a facewrap, an eyewrap, a nosewrap and an ear wrap, plus a huge cloak and really grubby clothes, and Joe-blow soldier recognized him codedly.

[Qzzrbl]

Yeaaah.... Again, I think we can leave skill checks or skills out of it entirely.

The main idea, I think, is to alleviate the word-vomit pouring out of a screen reader in most situations by allowing certain players to "name" others.

Should it be seen through facewraps, or hoods, or anything else sdesc-hiding? No.

[Fujikoma]

*everyone knows you*

[Yummri]

I am in full support of a distance/face-wrap/hood situation not allowing anyone to tag and remember anyone else. That makes perfect snese to me and in those situations the short desc changes anyway. Or so I have noticed.

This is a feature I think could benefit everyone not just me or anyone else with a reader. But I can understand why other players may want that air of limitation.

[Lizzie]

I am in full support of a distance/face-wrap/hood situation not allowing anyone to tag and remember anyone else. That makes perfect snese to me and in those situations the short desc changes anyway. Or so I have noticed.

This is a feature I think could benefit everyone not just me or anyone else with a reader. But I can understand why other players may want that air of limitation.

If all you're looking for is to be able to identify someone by name, if you recognize their sdesc - then you can absolutely set up aliases client-side. That's with or without a reader. You still need some kind of client and I know Zmud, Mushclient, and CMud are all compatible with readers.

[Yummri]

You can but the problem is that's really rather clunky and again as I said before its really hard with people of the same desc and setting up alias/triggers takes us out of the window meaning we miss whats going on in the game.

why when a remember command lets people do that game0side.

[RogueGunslinger]

You can but the problem is that's really rather clunky and again as I said before its really hard with people of the same desc and setting up alias/triggers takes us out of the window meaning we miss whats going on in the game.

why when a remember command lets people do that game0side.

Yeah, but I imagine it's certainly easier for you to do it for yourself once, than for the staff to code its framework to be used by the entire userbase, while also running the game and dealing with all sorts of other implementations, events, application review, and submission requests.


I think this is a good idea that I would love to see in game, but I can tell you with nearly 100% certainty this is not something that will be implemented. So I suggest trying to use the workarounds posted in this thread rather than waiting around for staff to do it for you.

[Barzalene]

I don't think there are too many people with the exact same sdesc at any given time. Once people die and disappear or what have you and the sdesc comes up a day you'll have a moment of confusion.

I can tell you that's sort of part of the whole game. We all experience that.

(Granted, I've never used a reader, so there may be more too this than I'm understanding.)

[Fujikoma]

The tall, muscular man stands here

[Molten Heart]

I'm disappointed this thread isn't about a love song.

[Yummri]

When those work arounds pose the same problems it isn't really a work around.

Here is a breakdown of how this works.

With the sdesc system the way it is. I(anyone with a reader) has to tread things like: The tall, muscular blue-eyed, blond-haired half-elf nods as he moves his hand in a slight wave saying <language> Hello there, what is your name, my name is blah of his ivory.

I have to read every single word before I get to either his pose, or what he actually said. And by the time I've done that, 3 other people have already responded making it really hard to compete with and worse when there are others in the room. The solution if only a slight one is a way to decrease the amount I have to read making me faster.

Now you can do this with triggers. But this requires you to know what you are doing with scripts for your client(and I have no idea how to scrpt at all) and to leave the game window to set up the triggers. Which for anyone sighted is fine.

The problem with this is that it takes me out of the game window and then my reader doesn't read what's going on. A sighted person can more the trigger window to keep an eye on things as they script. A blind person using a reader only hears what they are working on in the trigger window. Meaning I then have to scroll up line by line and reread every word of what I missed in order to catch up. Further missing out and being lagged behind everyone else.

Making a list in a notepad file of short desc and names is exactly the same problem but you have to read everyone's you've ever met's description before you find the one you want.

I personally can remember a lot. I can learn the sdscs and memorize ones I come across often. and I agree that mistaken identity can be part of the fun. But its still very very slow and it takes away from my experience, your experience interacting with me and anyone else with a reader who wants to play is gonna be in the same position. Its a case of trimming down whats reading to be able to play.

[Barzalene]

I think we have many players who could help you with this. Did you say you use Mushclient?

[valeria]

I think that Yummri's problem is more that he can't do it on the fly (because of the screen reading problem).

But, you wouldn't necessary have to put the scripts in while playing.  You could conceivably put the sdescs that you need to remember in a text file as you go and put them in the script later, even if just to help yourself out while staff considers this or whatever.

[Barzalene]

We have enough techies to take care of most of the heavy lifting I bet.  And yes, on the fly may be harder. But there's probably some solution

What about a client called VIP?

[Fujikoma]

Would there possibly be a way to set up an alias that takes a command from the command window to make some kind of script thing that replaces and sdesc with a name, so you never have to leave the window?

Such as:
remember fat, mangy brute as cletus
(not sure how that would be done)

And also maybe a forget command, for when, 10 seconds later, cletus uses bash in a Gaj brawl and lands on the pile, so future fat, mangy, brutes are not remembered by cletus, once you've confirmed their death, or have been away from them so long it may be appropriate to forget or assume they died?

[Barzalene]

http://gmagames.com/vipmud.shtml

VIP client

[Yummri]

I've used Vip before and I'm not really a fan. But yes I do use Muschclient because for the most part its easy to use and setting up simple triggers and aliases is something I can do. Scripting them is very different though.

[Lizzie]

I've used Vip before and I'm not really a fan. But yes I do use Muschclient because for the most part its easy to use and setting up simple triggers and aliases is something I can do. Scripting them is very different though.

Ah! You can set up triggers and aliases OFFLINE! If you set up triggers and aliases to substitute sdescs for names, then you will be able to type out just the name, _and_ you'll be able to "see" just the name. The only time this would be a problem is if two people have the same name, or if two people have the same sdesc, and they're both in the same room. Your trigger would need to be more complex, adding criteria such as "Amos, the tall muscular man, is also the short and thin figure, when he has his hood on, while I'm playing this particular charcter. So if I see a hooded figure who is NOT short and thin, and I target amos, the trigger will reject it and send me an error, because yes - that person IS also Amos - but it's not the Amos I want to target."

I have no idea how to set criteria in triggers, having never created one with Mushclient. I used to do that with zmud but it was over 10 years ago. I know you can do it though.

[solera]

http://gdb.armageddon.org/index.php/topic,37948.msg514576.html#msg514576

Another thread I remember initiated by a blind/reader player.

[RogueGunslinger]

Just had a thought, Do you know about the Brief system in the game?

Something that will probably help you a lot. At the very least 'brief room' will help your reader not have to go over so many lines of room descriptions every time. A lot less page scroll that way.


http://www.armageddon.org/help/view/Brief

[Yummri]

Was the first thing I checked for and it does help a lot. Sadly even this has drawbacks as you can miss a lot of useful information that people refer to sometimes or even objects of interest.

Some of the huts are blended into the room desc and  don't actually show up in the list of things in the room too.

Sometimes you'll see:

A dwarf is stood here
An Efl is stood here
A brown hut is here

other times you don't see the hut and I've walked passed them a few times looking for them for that brief reason. haha.

[Bushranger]

There are often things in rooms that people miss because it's not obvious, like those huts that are only included in the room description.

Keyword .

That command is great for finding everything in the room that's visible if you just use the period after the keyword command. It will list everything on your person, in your inventory, in the room and everything inside containers that are in your inventory or inside the room.

[Fujikoma]

Good lord, Bushranger, you just blew my mind! Why have I never heard of this?

[Lizzie]

Good lord, Bushranger, you just blew my mind! Why have I never heard of this?

You can also limit your key search - key green will give you a list of only the visible items that have "green" in the room as a keyword.

You can key green chest to see only those items in the chest that have green as a keyword.

Count is also a useful command - count green chest will tell you how many green items are in the chest. And if you feel that's a reasonable amount of things to check further, you can then key green chest, to see what those green items are.

[FantasyWriter]

I think it would be very helpful if you could "key . room" and get the same liist without having to read through your inventory and equipment lists.

[Refugee]

I think it would be very helpful if you could "key . room" and get the same liist without having to read through your inventory and equipment lists.

Oh yes.  Please.

[Fujikoma]

I think it would be very helpful if you could "key . room" and get the same liist without having to read through your inventory and equipment lists.

Oh yes.  Please.

Yes! This! This would be great!

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

I think it would be very helpful if you could "key . room" and get the same liist without having to read through your inventory and equipment lists.

Oh yes.  Please.

Yes! This! This would be great!

Oh yeah. Do that, Morg.

[Yummri]

Please do this too, because using key is useful but it is very very spammy.

[LittleLady]

On the topic of a remember command, I was part of staff on another game that used this type of system.

Much like has been said it could include skill checks that take into account changing clothes, voice (ala listen skill), distance (via scan skill), and even key emotes that people might use (via watch skill). It also was a command you had to enter while standing in the same room with someone, meaning you have ample oppertunity to role play an introduction.

The distance/time between when you last saw someone and now/appearance changes would all increase the difficulty on being able to remember who a person is. It could take a bit of time before you remember them, and that helps to level the playing field. Skill checks for this are something I can agree with if it was going to be a system open to the whole game community and not just the visually impaired.

If this were to be a system strictly for visually impaired players to request, then I don't think the skill checks are really needed. This is a tool that will help Arm retain a good portion of new players, and allow them to more readily interact with the game as a whole. This isn't a system they're looking to abuse, though I can understand why some people feel that it could be.

The main thing I think people have to remember is that change isn't a bad thing. This is exactly the same thing as setting up a trigger to do it with your client, except it is done by the code in game rather than having to learn how to script out of game. It's no different than meeting someone a couple times and noting on a notepad file what they look like with a hood up or down, what mount they ride, what weapon they use, which in my opinion is highly more abusable than having the code do this in a way that requires skill and role play both.

[Kerry]

Here is the thing.. Moments where you thin you recognize someone could still be a feature, especially if codded that after a while you may not recognize them right away and it may take them speak to recognize voice etc which can be done.

Also for those people who like the system as it is no one would be forcing you to use it, but the choice should be there.

As a further point, this does not aid in accessibility for any visually impaired players, of which I am one and know a few trying to get into the game but finding system like this which ass to the complication of play.

As a side note. I have no idea how to do that with my client. I'm using MUSHcliet so if someone could tell me how to do this I would appreciate it, but simply get used to it isn't something that is suitible for everyoe and not for lack of trying. Especially as a newbie.

I totally see this helping me out to, for I am a blind player, and loving the game so far, but just remembering the person is a bit, maybe if you could just remember the person for a while? like you have to see them like between one month to keep remembering them. about seeing people and not remembering who they are? heh, I can't see, and I remember like crazy, i'm good at remembering voices. take care...