Climbing

[Barsook]

Not that it would ever happen, but it would be kind of neat if all rooms that required climb checks had different ratings[.]

I dig that idea.

[slvrmoontiger]

I agree with rating different rooms as to the difficulty for climbing this only makes sense. I'm sure in Armageddon just as in RL there are places that would be an easy climb say a short cliff with lots of please for hand holds and foot holds. And then very difficult places like the shieldwall.

I still agree that because this is a guild (class) based MUD that not everyone should be able to learn to climb well anywhere. If that got approved the next thing we would get is someone complaining because they can't see people hiding, or someone complaining because they have no capability to crit hit, or even someone complaining that they can't guard someone because they chose the profession of soldier even though they couldn't ever be able to guard someone. Then you would get people complaining about how elves have more endurance, giants are stronger, or mantises have six arms to wield a weapon in.

[Kryos]

Stuff

Missing some of what I said here.  Learning how to pick locks *is* a secretive and difficult task that wouldn't be readily available to just any Amos.  Climbing is quite literally basic body control and a show of strength and dexterity.  They are apples and oranges.

And even, lets say, if all skills did eventually have the ability to be branched to mid capacity, you aren't going to be busting in to rich apartments.

But, that's blowing it out of proportion and not even focusing on the topic at hand:  climb, so there's a fallacy in that.

As for climb difficulty, I can't say for certain, but I do believe grades of difficulty already exist.

[slvrmoontiger]

Stuff

Missing some of what I said here.  Learning how to pick locks *is* a secretive and difficult task that wouldn't be readily available to just any Amos.  Climbing is quite literally basic body control and a show of strength and dexterity.  They are apples and oranges.

And even, lets say, if all skills did eventually have the ability to be branched to mid capacity, you aren't going to be busting in to rich apartments.

But, that's blowing it out of proportion and not even focusing on the topic at hand:  climb, so there's a fallacy in that.

As for climb difficulty, I can't say for certain, but I do believe grades of difficulty already exist.

It would seem you've never been climbing before. There's a lot to learn about climbing and its not just about physical fitness or dexterity. You need to have the smarts and the know-how to be able to figure out where something is going to lead before you get to it. You need to know how to test things like "is this going to come loose and send me falling to my death?" Check the statistics on how many climbers die each year in various places. There's a difference between climbing a mountain and hiking it.

[Kryos]

stuff

And you'd be wrong.  I've done a lot of climbing, most of it free climbing up nearly sheer faces.  No one ever taught me how, I just, as a rascal, decided it'd be fun to climb up the bluffs off the lakes and rivers we camped on, knowing if I fell I'd just hit deep water.  I became quite proficient.

[Ourla]

Just RP your character teaching himself how to climb over time. Stick with it and log it and send a request to staff to plead your case. If your character went about it reasonably, it's possible to obtain it.

[Chettaman]

Although I support the freedom to do whatever we want!! - I will say nay to everyone getting climb.

My reasoning is this and is completely off topic:
I haven't played any good games that I've enjoyed in forever and I blame the new ideas or whatever. Maybe it's some other reason I haven't considered... but I think alot of the new games comming out suck. I enjoy way more games on the PS2 than any other console.

[Qzzrbl]

One can passably climb with the proper equipment and no skill.

You can get yourself out of a pinch with neither, within reason.

[hyzhenhok]

Fair enough. I guess the system is untouched from back in 2008 when my first Bynner deserted after ticking off a noble, fell off the shield wall, ran across the tablelands with a warband of gith chasing him, and escaped them by accidentally walking over a ravine but successfully scrambling for purchase with zero skill and zero equipment.

Climb is one of the outdated systems in the game that could stand to be revamped and re-balanced, and it'd be nice to see the "oh, you're untrained; you can climb up this but it'll just take you 30 attempts" changed to something more reasonable. But it's understandable that this would be low priority.

[Wastrel]

One can passably climb with the proper equipment and no skill.

You can get yourself out of a pinch with neither, within reason.

[Morrolan]

I've done a lot of climbing, most of it free climbing up nearly sheer faces.  No one ever taught me how, I just, as a rascal, decided it'd be fun to climb up the bluffs off the lakes and rivers we camped on, knowing if I fell I'd just hit deep water.  I became quite proficient.

You a sneaky guild, Kryos? Or is this a subguild thing?

[joyofdiscord]

stuff

And you'd be wrong.  I've done a lot of climbing, most of it free climbing up nearly sheer faces.  No one ever taught me how, I just, as a rascal, decided it'd be fun to climb up the bluffs off the lakes and rivers we camped on, knowing if I fell I'd just hit deep water.  I became quite proficient.

Then you are obviously Guild_Ranger or something else that gets climb.

[Lizzie]

stuff

And you'd be wrong.  I've done a lot of climbing, most of it free climbing up nearly sheer faces.  No one ever taught me how, I just, as a rascal, decided it'd be fun to climb up the bluffs off the lakes and rivers we camped on, knowing if I fell I'd just hit deep water.  I became quite proficient.

If my dad had done a lot of climbing, most of it free climbing up nearly sheer faces, with no one teaching him how, just because he thought it'd be fun, he still would fall and get seriously hurt, each time. He is not athletic, or particularly physically well-coordinated. Not everyone is -able- to do what you did, whether taught or untaught.

This, in game, translates to guilds and sub-guild. Some people are more inclined to have the capacity to climb. Some people are not. If you want to play a character who is more suited to climbing, then pick a guild or subguild that comes with the skill.

Anyone *should* be able to rip up a strip of sandcloth and make a bandage with it. Until the salvage code was released, it was the exclusive domain of guilds and subguilds that came with the bandage skill. Now, anyone can attempt to salvage cloth for makeshift bandages.  It's not foolproof, and since it's not a coded skill, it will never get "better." Just like with climb - anyone can attempt to climb. Eventually, most people will succeed. But if it's not a coded skill on their skills list, they will never get any better.

[Synthesis]

The main problem is that the game world is designed with "not everyone is good at climbing" as a fundamental assumption.  Sure, you could give everyone a 45% climb and rework every climb room in the game to have exactly the same base chance of success as previously, but what the hell would the difference be? Nada.  You'd just be giving people the satisfaction of seeing climb (journeyman) on their skills list, at the cost of a whole lot of tedious manual re-jiggering of who-knows-how-many rooms.

[Kryos]

I've done a lot of climbing, most of it free climbing up nearly sheer faces.  No one ever taught me how, I just, as a rascal, decided it'd be fun to climb up the bluffs off the lakes and rivers we camped on, knowing if I fell I'd just hit deep water.  I became quite proficient.

You a sneaky guild, Kryos? Or is this a subguild thing?

The 6'7", 265 pound man says, "No."  More to the point, I got lucky and rolled exceptional strength and good agility.  Meaning that even with the possibility of garnering some skill in the task, the difference of genetic cruelty would make a big impact on success/failure, and that code already exists in the game.

[Chettaman]

I say we take away /all/ the skills!
Revolution!!!

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

Ragequit.

[Knight of Knives]

One can passably climb with the proper equipment and no skill.

You can get yourself out of a pinch with neither, within reason.

This.

Essentially the climb skill equates to: "Your character can freehand scale up the sides of precipitous cliffs."

Not everyone can do that in the least.

There is a -lot- of climbing gear in game. Using that stuff equates to: "Your character, with a range of tools at his disposal, is capable of making a decent climb."

This is much more realistic. I've climbed to the top of crazy places in the game with no climb skill and gear. I think climb should be reserved to those characters who fit the above bill of 'being able to climb like Brandon Stark or Locke Lamora'.

[Synthesis]

The solution everyone is really looking for is the ability to send one person to the top with a rope rig, then haul everyone else up with it, without having to wish up for staff assistance.

[Armaddict]

The solution everyone is really looking for is the ability to send one person to the top with a rope rig, then haul everyone else up with it, without having to wish up for staff assistance.

Pretty baller idea, actually. XD

[HavokBlue]

One can passably climb with the proper equipment and no skill.

You can get yourself out of a pinch with neither, within reason.

This.

Essentially the climb skill equates to: "Your character can freehand scale up the sides of precipitous cliffs."

Not everyone can do that in the least.

There is a -lot- of climbing gear in game. Using that stuff equates to: "Your character, with a range of tools at his disposal, is capable of making a decent climb."

This is much more realistic. I've climbed to the top of crazy places in the game with no climb skill and gear. I think climb should be reserved to those characters who fit the above bill of 'being able to climb like Brandon Stark or Locke Lamora'.

But I can give you all the climbing gear in the world IRL, and if you don't know how to use it or what you're doing, you won't be topping anything but a hospital bed. Most climbing aids don't make you a better climber, they make you less likely to die when you fuck up.

You shouldn't be able to climb to the top of crazy places without the climb skill, in most circumstances. But it also shouldn't be a massive struggle to get out of a 10 foot deep hole in the road.

[Dalmeth]

I think we're all mature enough that the fall and hit your neck critical fail can be removed from the game and be replaced with a critical slip, which will cause you to fall even if you've already gained purchase at a certain height.  In that way, you've eliminated the can't get out of a ten foot hole scenario, and still make it dangerous for the untrained to climb to very high places.

[Armaddict]

I think we're all mature enough that the fall and hit your neck critical fail can be removed from the game and be replaced with a critical slip, which will cause you to fall even if you've already gained purchase at a certain height.  In that way, you've eliminated the can't get out of a ten foot hole scenario, and still make it dangerous for the untrained to climb to very high places.

Also a +1 able idea, imo.

[MeTekillot]

You slip and fall on your neck because fuCK YOU!!!! FUCK YOU!!!!!!!!!!! FUCK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!