Do you feel the love?

[LauraMars]

But those wind mages know how to blow.

(I miss that bard.)

A grey-eyed bard says, in northern-accented sirihish:
    "I will now perform, 'Erdlu Without No Bone.'"

[Delirium]

But those wind mages know how to blow.

(I miss that bard.)

A grey-eyed bard says, in northern-accented sirihish:
    "I will now perform, 'Erdlu Without No Bone.'"

YOU UNDERSTAND ME.

(sorry. back to your regularly scheduled thread.)

[Malken]

I'm going to assume that Amandagreathouse is not feelin' the love.

[AmandaGreathouse]

Assumption: Correct.

[AmandaGreathouse]

That said, I am really enjoying my current clan staff.

[Malken]

That said, I am really enjoying my current clan staff.

Going to take another wild guess, it's Calavera, isn't it?

[AmandaGreathouse]

Nope, it's actually not. I could tell you who it was, but that would be more revealing than the rules encourage and I'm not quite drunk enough to go -there-.

I still wish that there was a simple yes/no poll option that people could use.


I guarantee if there was, you would have a lot more responses that were a lot more honest and telling.

[Wug]

This thread is going to have to stay away from anything IC. And if you do have problems with staff, you must go through the request tool. I'm not trying to be a fascist, but these threads can devolve fast without ground rules.

We all do care about players new and old. We've all been playing for a long time ourselves. Some of us still play. Making the game fun and the world consistent is a difficult balancing act and sometimes you might not understand or agree with our actions. Sometimes we might even seem like jerks. That's not our intention. A lot of discussion and consensus goes into decisions we make on the request tool and they are rarely unilateral.

Also, due to the nature of the game, we can rarely tell you all of the factors that go into a decision. We can't be transparent about everything. This causes an inherent trust issue that has been around as long as the game has. When I was a player I had my fair share of staff issues. I'd go as far to say that it is normal. It's the price we have to pay to have a game that is, in part, based on secrecy and misery. The best I can tell you to do is communicate on the request tool and not post complaints on the GDB while drinking.

[Lizzie]

I feel the love just fine. Clan and unclanned staff have been pretty awesome, from my perspective over the last year+. Presently I'm in a situation where the act of waiting - is torture. I'm assuming it just plain isn't my turn yet, and will be shortly. I just wish shortly would come quicker! <fidget>

[slvrmoontiger]

I agree with what Cutthroat said. I have been on and off many times since I started as a freshman in college. And when I'm not playing its because I'm just too busy in RL to have time to sit down and play. As far as newbies go I try to help out as much as possible, but I do try to limit the use of OOC and try to refer them to the helpers chat when it isn't anything more than syntax or something really quick that can be helped either IG or OOC wise.

[Malken]

The only time I'm not playing is when this happens:



But even then..

[BleakOne]

I wouldn't consider myself a 'veteran' by any stretch, but I feel the love all the time. I like how great things are possible but improbable.

[Potaje]

I feel like I give the love.. I certainly give newbie love, with the back of my hand...

[manonfire]

As a veteran player (12 years and counting) who did something pretty stupid a few years back, was banned for it, and eventually welcomed back, I can say I definitely feel the love.

The longer you play, the more likely you are to find yourself at cross purposes with the staff and man, you just gotta keep calm and carry the fuck on.

[AmandaGreathouse]

self-policing. I have no need of or desire to go down this path.

[ShaLeah]

The longer you play, the more likely you are to find yourself at cross purposes with the staff and man, you just gotta keep calm and carry the fuck on.

Hard to do in the heat of the moment but great advice. Also, don't be afraid to admit you're wrong, or right. Intention is as hard to express now as it was 15 years ago through the net.

My 2 sids?

I think veterans should care more about what we need to do to keep this game going than anything we've lost. We should do whatever we can to get new players AND respect the opinion of those who knew the game when it was truly gritty. I feel the game is a wee bit different, staff is different and the longevity of characters is definitely different but the vibe is still the same overall.

Sometimes I feel the love, sometimes I don't. Sometimes I feel like the lack of love people feel is due primarily because of assumption. I've had interactions with staff that have been -really- good and some not.  I respect the fact that staff volunteers their time. I do things IC that I feel normal for the character as it develops, I play for the story, I'll never know every spell in the book, the geography of the land and I'll likely never get another point of karma. But I'll keep playing as long as I have the time to burn.

Things I'd change to the old ways?

Reopening of certain clans.
Harder to be "independent".
Slavery.
Red Robes. (or the equivalent of that in whatever clan - at no time should you be force stored because you're too powerful or be forced to stay a certain rank because PCs "can't play X)

Not having the above doesn't change the love for me.

Do I feel the love? Sure. When the players and staff want me to. In the end, I play this game for fun. I play this game cause I love it. Of course I feel the love. The love is towards the game, everything else is gravy.

[Zoltan]

I still wish that there was a simple yes/no poll option that people could use.


I guarantee if there was, you would have a lot more responses that were a lot more honest and telling.

Yes, because nothing is more honest and telling than a straight "yes" or a "no."

I will agree that it's hard for people to air grievances though, as by necessity they require "sensitive" information to be brought forth to illuminate them. And as Wug said, that works out best in a request, and it's not really cool to post that on the gdb.

The "love" we speak of in this thread is really subjective as well. The sourest of grapes can be created from anything ranging to a staffer abusing their position in the mud by creating game-breaking items for themselves, or by a staffer denying support for whatever pet project you have. One person's imm tyranny is another person's imm justice. Due to the strict secrecy regarding IC aspects of the game (the thing that keeps it running properly, in my opinion), us random players can't have total insight into such things to judge them ourselves. That's just the sort of price you pay for a game like this.

But take all of that with a grain of salt. After all, we don't have the yes/no button in this thread so I may not be being entirely open or honest about my opinion. 

[BleakOne]

Oh, speaking of slavery, I'd love to play a slave role at least once in game.

I understand that staff had very good reason to put a stop to them, but that doesn't stop me wanting to one day try for that wooden sword, or skitter along in the wake of the mighty, throwing flower petals or what-not. 

Good thing is, never know what cool things the staff have up their sleeves for the future.

[Clanboardwatcher]

I want to play a hunched red-gith that is a slave of the yellow gith.

[Kevo]

No.

I feel misunderstood, distrusted, angry, violent, as if everyone who is my superior is talking about me behind me back, and I have no control over anything.

So I remind myself, when I get on my computer, I need to put those RL frustrations away. For the most part, I do. When I was a teenager, I didn't, and that made me want to ragequit many times. A couple of times I did. I've always been a lurker on the GDB, and even though I have a lot to say, I feel as if others say it better, so I let them.

The reasons I'm not feeling the love, or feeling appreciated by staff are many faceted, but one big reason is there are no perfect ways for staff to say 'Good job!' or 'You're role-playing super well!' There are no perfect ways for staff, as a group, or individual, to give you the kind of feeling that telling your friends about your amazing stories will give you. Despite that, I suggest not talking to Arm players. Ever. Or Staff, except via reports. Documented, hard-copy pages, with precise language, no sarcasm ever, no jokes, no foul language, no religion, no leeway. <--- that should be your ooc experience. I feel as if I have to log every single thing I do. (I don't, because I'm lazy). Why do I feel that way? Because we are people. Flawed, individual people.

I read a response to a report I sent the other day, and I disagreed. The neurolinguistic processes involved, the wording, the placement, my mood, my perception of the responder, and many other variables fed into my immediate response: What the F!! How is that, I mean, come on!! (self-edited to remove expletives).

I then employed my most recent technique for dealing with all OOC communication regarding Arm. Are you ready? Here it is. Reread. Reread. Reread. Reword. Go have a break. Reread. Rephrase. Insert mental image of someone smiling. Insert positive, happy tone that text will always fail to communicate. Turn everything I find offensive into good-natured humor. If all else fails, get over myself.

After this, I like the staff member more. I liked the response more. I understand that I actually did make a mistake. After seven years of complaining about X silently to myself, I decided to finally do X since everyone else was obviously doing X, without getting called out on it. I didn't get called out on X, instead, X was pointed out, and a personal opinion was given. And I got upset, at first. Until I decided I wouldn't, and now I'm feeling much better about the whole situation. I don't know how to fix X, but I'm confident that if I work with staff, we'll figure it out together.

Play the game in your mud-client and not your instant messenger.

I would add, or in your head, or out loud with friends. No asked me, but I will still tell you how I CAN feel the love. More work, less play. I sent in some songs one time, I felt super loved, and no one knew it was me, commented, or gave me praise. Also, if I want something in the game, or about it to change, I'm gonna have to START doing it myself, and try to get others to help me. (or use a low-orbit ion cannon to destroy everything! jk. That's thing is just a myth)

Advice for everyone: Love the story. Not the code, staff, players, anything else. Love the story. I will cut off my foot if it keeps this story going. There have been 10,00+ stories told using arm, and I expect 100,00 more, at least. (someone please Gimf this, ((yes, it's a verb now))

A lot of times I get pissed off, or upset, disappointed, and any random number of other negative emotions, but I have to remember something: Armageddon contains a piece of my soul. I put it there. Whoever you are, however I feel about you, if you have contributed something good to Armageddon, even a good experience for someone else, thank you. You've given something to a world that contains a piece of my soul. I owe you my foot for that. (it's in the mail)

I love you, ginka. I love you, staff. I love you, players.

I'm going to back to lurking now. Please, try and feel the love. If you can't, try and add some.

[Eurynomos]

That was very well put, Kevo. It's truly upsetting to see people so upset by actions we can make on Staff. We are human, and we make mistakes -- I for one have taken unnecessarily negative tones with players before, only to turn around and apologize for being pig-headed and rude. We are all playing this game, and taking part in this hobby, for one reason: we enjoy the eternal story. That is why people keep coming back, even after leaving for years.

It's sometimes disappointing to see people turn to other websites or AIM contacts in this endless pursuit of democratic knowledge -- If Staff know it, why can't I? And so on. Unfortunately, the only people being robbed in that situation are the people using those boards to assimilate knowledge, rather than actually playing the game. I have learned to remain positive and focus my efforts on bettering the game at large, rather than focusing my time on negativity and negative actions, either against players or against the game.

I am still astounded by situations and experiences in the game while on Staff. That is correct -- Even with the knowledge at my fingertips. Because what knowledge cannot convey is experience. What knowledge cannot predict is the eternal story -- the relationships, conflicts, and sometimes that brilliant resolution to a plot. You have to play the game for yourself to enjoy it, and just as discovering something by your own merit IRL is more satisfying than skipping to the end or reading the cliffnotes, so it is in Zalanthas. Knowledge will never trump the experience, the adrenaline rush just before dying, or the eldritch knowledge discovered by your PC that they know will lead to their death if others found out.

Enjoy the game.

[charas]

Hmm, I'm beginning to think my choice of title wasn't ideal...

And sorry guys, I didn't want a poll.

To clarify, I'm playing right now, it's awesome, and I have no grief with players or staff whatsoever, don't think I ever had for that matter.

In addition I do believe that the structure of  policies, communication channels and the various OOC rules of this MUD are well honed and efficient in minimizing grief for everybody involved.

BUT, and this is why I opened this thread, I also do believe that it would be beneficial to the game as a whole to explore new ways of making the elderly players feel loved and appreciated.

Since obviously I can only speak from personal experience, here's one example that first got me to think about this:

So I was running one of those characters a couple of years ago that was long lived and had achieved virtually everything possible in all the different avenues of Zalanthan life. So at one point I felt like I had hit a glass ceiling in pretty much every aspect imaginable. As I am sure many of you have too, at some point.
Now when I came up playing this game, I was under the assumption from witnessing things in game, that there were no glass ceilings. And I loved the idea. Alas, probing staff in that direction back then gave me the impression they did indeed exist.
So, eventually I found myself playing less and less and at one point decided to store, which I don't normally do. The following couple characters didn't quite do it for me so I gradually faded into a prolonged hiatus. Until now.

A scenario I assumed isn't all that rare among our playerbase.

To cut it short now, in my opinion one solution to mitigate the above described effect would be for staff to break glass ceilings for deserving long-lived characters. I for one would much rather see people playing their way into things over the years (where applicable) than insta-have them via special app/karma.

Also, jealous love-letters from Ginka to people who haven't logged in a while.

[LauraMars]

That was a really well meaning and nice post. However, all I could think after reading this line...

I also do believe that it would be beneficial to the game as a whole to explore new ways of making the elderly players feel loved and appreciated.

SHALEAH GON BE MAD

[BleakOne]

The glass ceiling is OOCly discouraging, but I don't really think it can be helped, for now. Another reason we should all vote and pump up our playerbase with new blood. Bigger pyramids of power need more people at the bottom tryin' to climb up.

[LauraMars]

Ok - a more thoughtful response. The "glass ceiling" thing. I know how you feel about that, completely. But there actually did used to be less of a ceiling for players, and when the long lived, well played characters achieved something and were promoted beyond the level most players could achieve...things had a tendency to get...weird.

For instance, a long time ago I played with a blue robe Templar who got a red robe. He was a red robe Templar. Did he deserve his red robe? Sure, of course. He was a great leader and had accomplished much. Did it throw the balance of power in the city off a little? Yeah, it totally did. You would see a red robe dealing with, like, the day to day dramas of some militia Privates, or dealing with elven thieves, and it just felt strange, because Red Robed Templars don't do that. Not the vnpc ones, anyway.  But the player wasn't going to stop interacting with her clan because her character was Red now and too important. That doesn't make sense either and it wouldn't be fair to expect the player not to take an interest in the clan she had built.  There's more examples of how things became strange (there was no player of equal rank in the city, for instance, so the politics became a bit one sided) and there are many other in game examples of other characters and their promotions as well which I won't get into.

So yeah - I understand the desire for advancement. It feels cool to accomplish things in this game and feel proud. I also understand why we don't have it beyond a certain level, because at some point it starts to become at odds with the documentation. Sometimes, our characters' stories have to end - better an end by promotion than a scrab bite to the foot.