Carpets from Istanbul for artwork from Athens?

[Paladin]

Raw materials are supposed to be cheaper than secondary or finished products. 

Here, however, a merchant buys one unit of a raw material, crafts and values the product at a 62% loss.  Really?  Even if the product is not in demand in port, or is a low quality good, it should still return even a very small profit above the purchase price of the raw material.  The shops won't buy anything anyway.

Also some of the helps in game and on the site concerning merchants and merchant skills are incomplete.  Aren't they supposed to go from town to town, buying low and selling high?

[Nyr]

Raw materials are supposed to be cheaper than secondary or finished products. 

Here, however, a merchant buys one unit of a raw material, crafts and values the product at a 62% loss.

That isn't the case.  Raw materials are (99% of the time) cheaper than secondary or finished products.  Any case in which that is not true is a case in which there is a typo, bug, or maybe just having skills that are too low (your value skill does improve with use) or an issue with not getting the right syntax!

The shops won't buy anything anyway.

They do.  You might have to find the right shop, though, and use the right commands.  To see if they'll buy something you've crafted, you need to "offer" the item up.  Generally you'd offer in a shop that sells some of the same stuff.

Also some of the helps in game and on the site concerning merchants and merchant skills are incomplete.  Aren't they supposed to go from town to town, buying low and selling high?

They can, and some do (and some have).

[Paladin]

I found the shop that sells the same things I crafted and they won't buy anything.

[Nyr]

I found the shop that sells the same things I crafted and they won't buy anything.

You might have to try another shop.  Some shops do not buy things and are meant for sales only.  That's one of them!

[Nyr]

Raw materials are supposed to be cheaper than secondary or finished products. 

Here, however, a merchant buys one unit of a raw material, crafts and values the product at a 62% loss.

That isn't the case.  Raw materials are (99% of the time) cheaper than secondary or finished products.  Any case in which that is not true is a case in which there is a typo, bug, or maybe just having skills that are too low (your value skill does improve with use) or an issue with not getting the right syntax!

Also it could simply be that value doesn't matter that much inside a vacuum.

If you buy raw material A and value it, okay--that's what your PC thinks it is worth.
If you craft secondary product B and value it, okay--that's what your PC thinks it is worth.
That doesn't mean that is how much you can sell it for.  Some shops buy higher; some shops sell lower.  Your skill at bartering can raise the price you can get out of it.  A PC might want it more than a shop does.  To maximize profits, you'd want to buy low and sell high.  A merchant PC just starting out is not going to be adept at bartering; it will take practice!

Good luck!

[Dar]

I found the shop that sells the same things I crafted and they won't buy anything.

Dude, my biggest ever advice is to find a mentor who can teach you stuff like that. Joining a house or some such would be the best step. It is in a way, part of armageddon, that the game reveals it's little intricacies in tiers. You branch other skills, you learn markets to sell from, you learn recipies to craft from, you learn trade routes and so on. I can almost guarantee you that finding all that by yourself alone, is .. almost suicidal. Houses, man. They'll teach you.

Also consider this possibility.

You buy a piece of hide that's 10 by 10. You're not "too" good at leather working, so out of 10 by 10 hide, you manage to make only 2 by 10 useable, and out of that, you screw up half to finally sew one piece of tiny equipment that's not too fancy, not too good. Obviously that piece of equipment will barely cover the cost of the hide, if that.

Someone who is skilled, would take the 'same' exact piece of hide, use it whole, and sew something up that's like 10 times the cost of the hide and in great demand.

[Paladin]

I found the shop that sells the same things I crafted and they won't buy anything.

Dude, my biggest ever advice is to find a mentor who can teach you stuff like that. Joining a house or some such would be the best step. It is in a way, part of armageddon, that the game reveals it's little intricacies in tiers. You branch other skills, you learn markets to sell from, you learn recipies to craft from, you learn trade routes and so on. I can almost guarantee you that finding all that by yourself alone, is .. almost suicidal. Houses, man. They'll teach you.

Also consider this possibility.

You buy a piece of hide that's 10 by 10. You're not "too" good at leather working, so out of 10 by 10 hide, you manage to make only 2 by 10 useable, and out of that, you screw up half to finally sew one piece of tiny equipment that's not too fancy, not too good. Obviously that piece of equipment will barely cover the cost of the hide, if that.

Someone who is skilled, would take the 'same' exact piece of hide, use it whole, and sew something up that's like 10 times the cost of the hide and in great demand.

Yes, and this is exactly why even a brand new crafter should make even a tiny amount of profit above cost.  Shops don't buy any of my stuff anyway (I found a couple more selling similar things).

I know how to buy low, sell high.  The game isn't cooperating, though.

[Dar]

They're out there. That's all that can really be said about that. Merchants are complicated, man. They're awesome in terms of being able to add some serious additions to the gameworld, but they're not easy. It's up to you how to play your merchant, but in general, you are definitely going to need a mentor of one form or another. Within the gameworld.


Also, merchants start with a significantly higher amount of starting coin for that specific reason. A lot of your crafts that you make early on, will not earn you much profit. A lot of the sales will not earn you much coin in the beginning. You're just beginning. That's why you got greater starting coin to be able to play around and figure stuff out. But generally, what you need. What you really really need, is a mentor. And easiest place to find those, would be getting hired by someone, somewhere.

[Paladin]

It doesn't look like anyone bothers with newbies in the actual game.  That's why I went to figure out trade on my own.

[janeshephard]

It doesn't look like anyone bothers with newbies in the actual game.  That's why I went to figure out trade on my own.

Everyone is roleplaying. Depending on your race and citizenship (or lack thereof) some folks -cant- take too much time out to help you.

Best bet is joining a clan. Then they have all the in-game motivation to show you the ropes.

[manipura]

It doesn't look like anyone bothers with newbies in the actual game.  That's why I went to figure out trade on my own.

Being an independent merchant can be really, really hard.  I'd imagine even moreso as a newer player.

And although it may feel this way, I don't think it's accurate to say that no one bothers to help newbies.  As much as they can, while still playing and maintaining their own characters, I think most players are rather welcoming/understanding of newbie struggles.

[BleakOne]

Clans, Helpers and also just asking around ICly can get you a lot of help, usually. Just remember to stay IC and the like for IC interactions.

[Dar]

My personal advice to ... any newbie player playing a merchant.


If for whatever reason you cannot join a house. Go sit in a tavern and watch other people. Find someone who's talkative, but does not seem to be extremely wealthy/high stationed/busy. Approach him and offer him a 100-200 coins in exchange for him giving you a tour of the city, and a quick run on which shop buys and sells what, where's the best places for material purchase, and what are the juiciest news of the city.

It'll be your best 200 sid ever spent. As a merchant, all you will ever be doing is hiring people to do stuff for you. Start with that. To earn sid, you gotta invest sid. You're definitely not going to go anywhere far if you're being totally solo. Merchants are the hubs of player to player interaction.


PS: This advice does not come with a guarantee that you're not going to get mugged, tortured, or just severely conned. Welcome to Armageddon!

[janeshephard]

Clans, Helpers and also just asking around ICly can get you a lot of help, usually. Just remember to stay IC and the like for IC interactions.

If you rolled an elf or half-elf this probably won't be as easy.

I sometimes think for new players only humans in cities would be the best idea.

[Paladin]

It doesn't look like anyone bothers with newbies in the actual game.  That's why I went to figure out trade on my own.

Everyone is roleplaying. Depending on your race and citizenship (or lack thereof) some folks -cant- take too much time out to help you.

Best bet is joining a clan. Then they have all the in-game motivation to show you the ropes.

I'm not in a clan because I haven't had the opportunity to join one.  Why wait around for someone to decide to condescend and extend anything to a newbie?

Clans, Helpers and also just asking around ICly can get you a lot of help, usually. Just remember to stay IC and the like for IC interactions.

If you rolled an elf or half-elf this probably won't be as easy.

I sometimes think for new players only humans in cities would be the best idea.

EDIT.

[Dar]

Right. Well. Just give it time. Talk to people. You'll be fine. Learning anything will need a little bit of patience. And merchants being pretty powerful and complicated, require three times so. Condescend, not condescend, whatever. Just keep yourself open to dealing with other people, when the opportunity arise. The infrastructure for traveling merchants exists. You can definitely do that and it's been done before. It's a very fun role and raiders will just ... love you. But nothing comes instantly. Just keep yourself open.

[a french mans shirt]

Clans taught me a lot about hunting/crafting/whatever although it had been a long, long time before I tried getting into a clan and being serious about it, and I considered myself an expert on A and C, but learned about as much in total knowledge about B and C in my first month in clanland as I did during that long period of time going solo.

Of course, some clans drive me crazy and I can't really stay in there long, but I do recommend finding a clan that fits whenever you feel like trying.

[a french mans shirt]

I'm not in a clan because I haven't had the opportunity to join one.  Why wait around for someone to decide to condescend and extend anything to a newbie?

Merchant Houses, Noble Houses: These are exclusive places of employment for commoners who expect to be sought out by many and take in only a few. They don't approach people, unless you're some kind of walking impressive resume and they've got some time to kill; people approach them.

The Arm, Legion, Byn, etc.: Right now the trend is to get as many bodies in as possible, although I think the fervor has calmed down since the HRPT. During normal times, though, they don't go out of their way to try to get you to join them.

But yeah its notoriously hard to find what is probably just one single player in that clan who does recruiting and its probably going to be anywhere from three to ten RL days of trying to get their mind. If you're impatient, you might want to try one of the larger clans with multiple recruiters if anyone.

[janeshephard]

Clanned players get mentors more easily.

Half-elf in the 'rinth. Not so much.

[Paladin]

I'm not impatient, I'm just starting to get fed up with being unable to do things on my own, not being able to join a clan or house, and having to deal with people who are trying to get me to quit just because I don't have awesome gear on.

I'm not making a third character.  Either this one takes off or I'm out of here.

[janeshephard]

I'm not impatient, I'm just starting to get fed up with being unable to do things on my own, not being able to join a clan or house, and having to deal with people who are trying to get me to quit just because I don't have awesome gear on.

I'm not making a third character.  Either this one takes off or I'm out of here.

Reach out to a helper? Are you sure you picked the right race for the location? I'm just saying some choices can make this game -very- hard on you.

I wish I could help you more but we're not allowed to discuss IC stuff on the board. Maybe open a question request and see if staff can field some questions?

[Paladin]

I'm not impatient, I'm just starting to get fed up with being unable to do things on my own, not being able to join a clan or house, and having to deal with people who are trying to get me to quit just because I don't have awesome gear on.

I'm not making a third character.  Either this one takes off or I'm out of here.

Reach out to a helper? Are you sure you picked the right race for the location? I'm just saying some choices can make this game -very- hard on you.

I wish I could help you more but we're not allowed to discuss IC stuff on the board. Maybe open a question request and see if staff can field some questions?

I made recommended choices.

[janeshephard]

Then all I can say is unless it's in the interest of someone to help you, don't expect them to.

Also, you need more patience for this game. Some characters take a while to develop. Give it time.

And have fun!

[BleakOne]

I hope you do stay, since we like having new players around.

Just keep in mind that in game, we all have to remain IC pretty much all the time. The game world is extremely racist, bigoted and superstitious. Magickers, elves, half-elves, 'rinthers and mutants generally suffer the worst of it. The ruling forces over the city states can order your death on a whim, and any form of disrespect towards them is almost certain to end badly for the offender.

Cruelty and nastiness IC doesn't always mean the players behind the characters are being nasty.

Anyway, welcome to the game. I Hope your experience improves.

[HavokBlue]

I'm not impatient, I'm just starting to get fed up with being unable to do things on my own, not being able to join a clan or house, and having to deal with people who are trying to get me to quit just because I don't have awesome gear on.

I'm not making a third character.  Either this one takes off or I'm out of here.

My advice is to avoid taking IC treatment personally. I don't think there's any player in this game who will try to get you to quit playing because of what your PC is wearing. A fictional character someone is playing might be rude or rough with your character because of how they dress, but that's directed at your character, not you as a player.

I'm having trouble reading whether or not you want to join a clan or avoid other players, but Merchant Houses and sometimes noble houses will gladly employ almost any newbie crafter. That said, they won't come to you, and they don't know you exist until you reach out to them. If you aren't sure who to talk to, try hanging around your city's respective tavern and asking for names.