Carpets from Istanbul for artwork from Athens?

[Paladin]

Raw materials are supposed to be cheaper than secondary or finished products. 

Here, however, a merchant buys one unit of a raw material, crafts and values the product at a 62% loss.  Really?  Even if the product is not in demand in port, or is a low quality good, it should still return even a very small profit above the purchase price of the raw material.  The shops won't buy anything anyway.

Also some of the helps in game and on the site concerning merchants and merchant skills are incomplete.  Aren't they supposed to go from town to town, buying low and selling high?

[Nyr]

Raw materials are supposed to be cheaper than secondary or finished products. 

Here, however, a merchant buys one unit of a raw material, crafts and values the product at a 62% loss.

That isn't the case.  Raw materials are (99% of the time) cheaper than secondary or finished products.  Any case in which that is not true is a case in which there is a typo, bug, or maybe just having skills that are too low (your value skill does improve with use) or an issue with not getting the right syntax!

The shops won't buy anything anyway.

They do.  You might have to find the right shop, though, and use the right commands.  To see if they'll buy something you've crafted, you need to "offer" the item up.  Generally you'd offer in a shop that sells some of the same stuff.

Also some of the helps in game and on the site concerning merchants and merchant skills are incomplete.  Aren't they supposed to go from town to town, buying low and selling high?

They can, and some do (and some have).

[Paladin]

I found the shop that sells the same things I crafted and they won't buy anything.

[Nyr]

I found the shop that sells the same things I crafted and they won't buy anything.

You might have to try another shop.  Some shops do not buy things and are meant for sales only.  That's one of them!

[Nyr]

Raw materials are supposed to be cheaper than secondary or finished products. 

Here, however, a merchant buys one unit of a raw material, crafts and values the product at a 62% loss.

That isn't the case.  Raw materials are (99% of the time) cheaper than secondary or finished products.  Any case in which that is not true is a case in which there is a typo, bug, or maybe just having skills that are too low (your value skill does improve with use) or an issue with not getting the right syntax!

Also it could simply be that value doesn't matter that much inside a vacuum.

If you buy raw material A and value it, okay--that's what your PC thinks it is worth.
If you craft secondary product B and value it, okay--that's what your PC thinks it is worth.
That doesn't mean that is how much you can sell it for.  Some shops buy higher; some shops sell lower.  Your skill at bartering can raise the price you can get out of it.  A PC might want it more than a shop does.  To maximize profits, you'd want to buy low and sell high.  A merchant PC just starting out is not going to be adept at bartering; it will take practice!

Good luck!

[Dar]

I found the shop that sells the same things I crafted and they won't buy anything.

Dude, my biggest ever advice is to find a mentor who can teach you stuff like that. Joining a house or some such would be the best step. It is in a way, part of armageddon, that the game reveals it's little intricacies in tiers. You branch other skills, you learn markets to sell from, you learn recipies to craft from, you learn trade routes and so on. I can almost guarantee you that finding all that by yourself alone, is .. almost suicidal. Houses, man. They'll teach you.

Also consider this possibility.

You buy a piece of hide that's 10 by 10. You're not "too" good at leather working, so out of 10 by 10 hide, you manage to make only 2 by 10 useable, and out of that, you screw up half to finally sew one piece of tiny equipment that's not too fancy, not too good. Obviously that piece of equipment will barely cover the cost of the hide, if that.

Someone who is skilled, would take the 'same' exact piece of hide, use it whole, and sew something up that's like 10 times the cost of the hide and in great demand.

[Paladin]

I found the shop that sells the same things I crafted and they won't buy anything.

Dude, my biggest ever advice is to find a mentor who can teach you stuff like that. Joining a house or some such would be the best step. It is in a way, part of armageddon, that the game reveals it's little intricacies in tiers. You branch other skills, you learn markets to sell from, you learn recipies to craft from, you learn trade routes and so on. I can almost guarantee you that finding all that by yourself alone, is .. almost suicidal. Houses, man. They'll teach you.

Also consider this possibility.

You buy a piece of hide that's 10 by 10. You're not "too" good at leather working, so out of 10 by 10 hide, you manage to make only 2 by 10 useable, and out of that, you screw up half to finally sew one piece of tiny equipment that's not too fancy, not too good. Obviously that piece of equipment will barely cover the cost of the hide, if that.

Someone who is skilled, would take the 'same' exact piece of hide, use it whole, and sew something up that's like 10 times the cost of the hide and in great demand.

Yes, and this is exactly why even a brand new crafter should make even a tiny amount of profit above cost.  Shops don't buy any of my stuff anyway (I found a couple more selling similar things).

I know how to buy low, sell high.  The game isn't cooperating, though.

[Dar]

They're out there. That's all that can really be said about that. Merchants are complicated, man. They're awesome in terms of being able to add some serious additions to the gameworld, but they're not easy. It's up to you how to play your merchant, but in general, you are definitely going to need a mentor of one form or another. Within the gameworld.


Also, merchants start with a significantly higher amount of starting coin for that specific reason. A lot of your crafts that you make early on, will not earn you much profit. A lot of the sales will not earn you much coin in the beginning. You're just beginning. That's why you got greater starting coin to be able to play around and figure stuff out. But generally, what you need. What you really really need, is a mentor. And easiest place to find those, would be getting hired by someone, somewhere.

[Paladin]

It doesn't look like anyone bothers with newbies in the actual game.  That's why I went to figure out trade on my own.

[janeshephard]

It doesn't look like anyone bothers with newbies in the actual game.  That's why I went to figure out trade on my own.

Everyone is roleplaying. Depending on your race and citizenship (or lack thereof) some folks -cant- take too much time out to help you.

Best bet is joining a clan. Then they have all the in-game motivation to show you the ropes.

[manipura]

It doesn't look like anyone bothers with newbies in the actual game.  That's why I went to figure out trade on my own.

Being an independent merchant can be really, really hard.  I'd imagine even moreso as a newer player.

And although it may feel this way, I don't think it's accurate to say that no one bothers to help newbies.  As much as they can, while still playing and maintaining their own characters, I think most players are rather welcoming/understanding of newbie struggles.

[BleakOne]

Clans, Helpers and also just asking around ICly can get you a lot of help, usually. Just remember to stay IC and the like for IC interactions.

[Dar]

My personal advice to ... any newbie player playing a merchant.


If for whatever reason you cannot join a house. Go sit in a tavern and watch other people. Find someone who's talkative, but does not seem to be extremely wealthy/high stationed/busy. Approach him and offer him a 100-200 coins in exchange for him giving you a tour of the city, and a quick run on which shop buys and sells what, where's the best places for material purchase, and what are the juiciest news of the city.

It'll be your best 200 sid ever spent. As a merchant, all you will ever be doing is hiring people to do stuff for you. Start with that. To earn sid, you gotta invest sid. You're definitely not going to go anywhere far if you're being totally solo. Merchants are the hubs of player to player interaction.


PS: This advice does not come with a guarantee that you're not going to get mugged, tortured, or just severely conned. Welcome to Armageddon!

[janeshephard]

Clans, Helpers and also just asking around ICly can get you a lot of help, usually. Just remember to stay IC and the like for IC interactions.

If you rolled an elf or half-elf this probably won't be as easy.

I sometimes think for new players only humans in cities would be the best idea.

[Paladin]

It doesn't look like anyone bothers with newbies in the actual game.  That's why I went to figure out trade on my own.

Everyone is roleplaying. Depending on your race and citizenship (or lack thereof) some folks -cant- take too much time out to help you.

Best bet is joining a clan. Then they have all the in-game motivation to show you the ropes.

I'm not in a clan because I haven't had the opportunity to join one.  Why wait around for someone to decide to condescend and extend anything to a newbie?

Clans, Helpers and also just asking around ICly can get you a lot of help, usually. Just remember to stay IC and the like for IC interactions.

If you rolled an elf or half-elf this probably won't be as easy.

I sometimes think for new players only humans in cities would be the best idea.

EDIT.

[Dar]

Right. Well. Just give it time. Talk to people. You'll be fine. Learning anything will need a little bit of patience. And merchants being pretty powerful and complicated, require three times so. Condescend, not condescend, whatever. Just keep yourself open to dealing with other people, when the opportunity arise. The infrastructure for traveling merchants exists. You can definitely do that and it's been done before. It's a very fun role and raiders will just ... love you. But nothing comes instantly. Just keep yourself open.

[a french mans shirt]

Clans taught me a lot about hunting/crafting/whatever although it had been a long, long time before I tried getting into a clan and being serious about it, and I considered myself an expert on A and C, but learned about as much in total knowledge about B and C in my first month in clanland as I did during that long period of time going solo.

Of course, some clans drive me crazy and I can't really stay in there long, but I do recommend finding a clan that fits whenever you feel like trying.

[a french mans shirt]

I'm not in a clan because I haven't had the opportunity to join one.  Why wait around for someone to decide to condescend and extend anything to a newbie?

Merchant Houses, Noble Houses: These are exclusive places of employment for commoners who expect to be sought out by many and take in only a few. They don't approach people, unless you're some kind of walking impressive resume and they've got some time to kill; people approach them.

The Arm, Legion, Byn, etc.: Right now the trend is to get as many bodies in as possible, although I think the fervor has calmed down since the HRPT. During normal times, though, they don't go out of their way to try to get you to join them.

But yeah its notoriously hard to find what is probably just one single player in that clan who does recruiting and its probably going to be anywhere from three to ten RL days of trying to get their mind. If you're impatient, you might want to try one of the larger clans with multiple recruiters if anyone.

[janeshephard]

Clanned players get mentors more easily.

Half-elf in the 'rinth. Not so much.

[Paladin]

I'm not impatient, I'm just starting to get fed up with being unable to do things on my own, not being able to join a clan or house, and having to deal with people who are trying to get me to quit just because I don't have awesome gear on.

I'm not making a third character.  Either this one takes off or I'm out of here.

[janeshephard]

I'm not impatient, I'm just starting to get fed up with being unable to do things on my own, not being able to join a clan or house, and having to deal with people who are trying to get me to quit just because I don't have awesome gear on.

I'm not making a third character.  Either this one takes off or I'm out of here.

Reach out to a helper? Are you sure you picked the right race for the location? I'm just saying some choices can make this game -very- hard on you.

I wish I could help you more but we're not allowed to discuss IC stuff on the board. Maybe open a question request and see if staff can field some questions?

[Paladin]

I'm not impatient, I'm just starting to get fed up with being unable to do things on my own, not being able to join a clan or house, and having to deal with people who are trying to get me to quit just because I don't have awesome gear on.

I'm not making a third character.  Either this one takes off or I'm out of here.

Reach out to a helper? Are you sure you picked the right race for the location? I'm just saying some choices can make this game -very- hard on you.

I wish I could help you more but we're not allowed to discuss IC stuff on the board. Maybe open a question request and see if staff can field some questions?

I made recommended choices.

[janeshephard]

Then all I can say is unless it's in the interest of someone to help you, don't expect them to.

Also, you need more patience for this game. Some characters take a while to develop. Give it time.

And have fun!

[BleakOne]

I hope you do stay, since we like having new players around.

Just keep in mind that in game, we all have to remain IC pretty much all the time. The game world is extremely racist, bigoted and superstitious. Magickers, elves, half-elves, 'rinthers and mutants generally suffer the worst of it. The ruling forces over the city states can order your death on a whim, and any form of disrespect towards them is almost certain to end badly for the offender.

Cruelty and nastiness IC doesn't always mean the players behind the characters are being nasty.

Anyway, welcome to the game. I Hope your experience improves.

[HavokBlue]

I'm not impatient, I'm just starting to get fed up with being unable to do things on my own, not being able to join a clan or house, and having to deal with people who are trying to get me to quit just because I don't have awesome gear on.

I'm not making a third character.  Either this one takes off or I'm out of here.

My advice is to avoid taking IC treatment personally. I don't think there's any player in this game who will try to get you to quit playing because of what your PC is wearing. A fictional character someone is playing might be rude or rough with your character because of how they dress, but that's directed at your character, not you as a player.

I'm having trouble reading whether or not you want to join a clan or avoid other players, but Merchant Houses and sometimes noble houses will gladly employ almost any newbie crafter. That said, they won't come to you, and they don't know you exist until you reach out to them. If you aren't sure who to talk to, try hanging around your city's respective tavern and asking for names.

[Paladin]

I'm not impatient, I'm just starting to get fed up with being unable to do things on my own, not being able to join a clan or house, and having to deal with people who are trying to get me to quit just because I don't have awesome gear on.

I'm not making a third character.  Either this one takes off or I'm out of here.

My advice is to avoid taking IC treatment personally. I don't think there's any player in this game who will try to get you to quit playing because of what your PC is wearing. A fictional character someone is playing might be rude or rough with your character because of how they dress, but that's directed at your character, not you as a player.

I'm having trouble reading whether or not you want to join a clan or avoid other players, but Merchant Houses and sometimes noble houses will gladly employ almost any newbie crafter. That said, they won't come to you, and they don't know you exist until you reach out to them. If you aren't sure who to talk to, try hanging around your city's respective tavern and asking for names.

What I mean is that it seems like people recognize newbies by their gear and find IC reasons to get them to leave the game.

[BleakOne]

In that case I'd suggest filing a player complaint. People are not supposed to be doing that sort of stuff. Most of us welcome and support new players.

[HavokBlue]

I'm not impatient, I'm just starting to get fed up with being unable to do things on my own, not being able to join a clan or house, and having to deal with people who are trying to get me to quit just because I don't have awesome gear on.

I'm not making a third character.  Either this one takes off or I'm out of here.

My advice is to avoid taking IC treatment personally. I don't think there's any player in this game who will try to get you to quit playing because of what your PC is wearing. A fictional character someone is playing might be rude or rough with your character because of how they dress, but that's directed at your character, not you as a player.

I'm having trouble reading whether or not you want to join a clan or avoid other players, but Merchant Houses and sometimes noble houses will gladly employ almost any newbie crafter. That said, they won't come to you, and they don't know you exist until you reach out to them. If you aren't sure who to talk to, try hanging around your city's respective tavern and asking for names.

What I mean is that it seems like people recognize newbies by their gear and find IC reasons to get them to leave the game.

I can't say I've ever encountered or seen this myself but nobody should ever be doing this. If you think this is what is occurring, definitely file a player complaint with the request tool and staff will handle it.

[jstorrie]

You've gotta choose your 'tude, dude.

[Kryos]

I love your game reference in the title by the way, I played the crap out of that game.  One of the SNES greats.

Now, as for the problems you seem to be speaking on:  Most of the players who have the recruit power in a clan are considered 'important people' to varying degrees in the world.  They don't have any inclination to go out and seek out recruits, the common masses should be groveling at their feet for the chance to serve!  That being said, they are typically roles approved directly by the game's staff and they *will* seek to help out obviously new players.  Try to find them during 'prime time', around 7pm-11pm server.

Remember, however, that the world Armageddon is set in, is in a word:  harsh.  People *are* out to get your pc, *are* out to steal, *are* out to murder your pc if they get the chance.  This is the world that our pcs live in. 

Its also purposefully got a lot left out of the documentation, which I think you are feeling frustrated by.  But the reason for this is there's a great satisfaction and wonder for a player who discovers something on their character.  I've got a couple years under my belt and there's piles I don't know about a lot of things in the game.  The entry bar to a new player is pretty high, but, it also means there's something to do and see even years down the road.

And finally, I was frustrated to the point of almost not playing any more once upon a time, but I'm glad I stuck with it.

[Dresan]

I'm not impatient, I'm just starting to get fed up with being unable to do things on my own, not being able to join a clan or house, and having to deal with people who are trying to get me to quit just because I don't have awesome gear on.

I'm not making a third character.  Either this one takes off or I'm out of here.

Well its obvious you are frustrated and thats unfortunate.

However, in all my years of wandering in and out of this mud, i have never seen a newbie or new characters be turned away without extremely good IC reason. Infact the opposite is often true, clans often bend over to hiring whatever jackass shows a remote interest in joining them. They might not go actively searching for people (half the time) but you'd be surprised the song and dance a leader will give when they think you are willing to join. In reality though it should be the other way around, joining a clan should be the opportunity of a lifetime.  Now if you aren't the right race or in the right location you could have some trouble getting people to even look at you let alone talk to you but again thats something you can discuss in more detail with a helper.

There are several extremely successful merchants right now, and with warehouses added to the game a player can hire others and practically run their very own small minature companies/clan/etc. The key to making a successful merchant or a successful anything in this game is knowledge. You won't be aquiring that knowledge OOCly though, you need to figure it out with your character. However some IC methods you can go about it have already been mentioned. First, you can try to figure it out yourself. If you are having trouble doing that, you can find someone in game to teach you maybe by paying them, or working for them or forcing them to tell you. If that doesn't work, you could try joining a larger clan that would be happy to have you join their plots while teaching you all sorts of neat things. And if all that fails, you could contact a helper and get more tips and advice from them. Some methods might take longer then others but at the end it will always just take time.

One last thing, lets say that you figure out what to buy cheap in one place, and where you can sell it for insane profit; don't think it will be easy for your character. If you want to do more then just survive, expect some more challenges at least. The best place to sell your product made out of specifc material will probably take more thought and co-ordination for you to reach. Again, there are people who can do it, have done it, and are doing it right now in the game. I am sure its only a matter of time before you figure out how to make your merchant successful. However as i said its unfortunate you feel frustrated because working on gaining that IC knowledge and being able to overcome some of those early challenges should be  part of what makes the game fun.

I wish you luck in whatever you decide to do.

[Barzalene]

There are some newbies running around with descriptions that are deliberately off-putting. That too will make life a lot harder.

Also this idea of why should I have to ask someone condescend to give my pc a job may not be the happiest way to look at it.

It's true, new characters often start at the bottom of the feeding pool. A lot of people want to be strong and admired and Arm doesn't offer that experience out of the box. There is a a lot of ass-kissing in Arm. And there's always someone bigger and badder. I think to enjoy the game we have to accept that this is a given.

If a recruiter gives your pc a job they are doing your pc a favor. If a player's character gives your pc a job they are not doing you a favor. They're collaborating with you. They're hoping you will come play with them. They're hoping that you'll be entertained by their pc and that you can make interesting stories. They're hoping you'll have fun in their clan and that they'll enjoy (or hate with great angst) the experience of interacting with you on a regular basis.

Yes, pc have to kiss ass. But you don't. It's an important distinction.

[Lizzie]

Hello and welcome to the world of Zalanthan merchanting. I'll use hypotheticals because I don't know the actual formulae, nor do I care to know the actual formulae, and even if I did, it's against the rules to discuss it here.

So you're in Allanak, and you are at the raw goods shop. You find a chunk of bahamet shell for 200 sids. You use your barter skill to offer less, and, without pissing off the merchant and getting kicked out of the shop til tomorrow, you agree to 185 sids for the piece of shell.

And now, you make a bahamet shell bangle.

You bring it to the Kadian merchant, who offers you only 150 sids for it. He sells the exact same ones for 1050 sids each. You try to barter and get at least 200 sids for it, but you get kicked out of the shop before the merchant gets to 190.

So you bring it to some random merchant in the marketplace, and only get offered 45 sids for it. This merchant sells the exact same one for 800 sids each. Obviously you won't get what you paid for, for the raw material, so you keep walking.

Eventually, you find a merchant who will offer you 221 sids for it, after bartering up from 175. Except - he's out of coins for the day. This guy sells the same ones for 400 sids each.

When you type "value bangle" for the one you're selling, you are shown that it's supposedly only worth 250 sids.

This is a typical experience in the coded world of the Armageddon merchanting system. Just be glad you're in a place where you can find an NPC who buys jewelry at all; there are some areas in the game where such merchants don't exist.

What you're learned upon this brief adventure through the market:

1. "Value" doesn't show what the merchants are selling things for, it's showing what merchants are *buying* things for. So that number will be significantly lower than what the high-end fancy Kadian is selling the thing for in his market shop. Never expect to get that much from an NPC; you won't.

2. Your barter skill needs improvement. Keep practicing. Learn how to barter to the point of *almost* getting kicked out of shops, but not quite.

3. Not all merchants will buy/sell the same things for the same amount of money. You need to keep exploring til you find the best bang for your buck - or in your case, the best buck for your bang. This *might* mean travelling to another city entirely. People in Allanak wear lots of jewelry, and bahamet shell isn't the most popular material to make it with, so it's possible you might find better profits bringing that particular bangle to another center of trade.

4. Don't make lots of expensive-to-make stuff, expecting to unload it all in one or two trips to an NPC market. You'll end up frustrated, carrying around a lot of crap that won't sell at all, and no money for water and food. Instead, make just one or two pieces of nice somethingorother. Make a couple of little nothing doodads, and perhaps a cheapo ring or two from stones you've gathered outside the gates (meaning, you didn't pay for them at all). That way, at the end of the day, you will at least have enough money to 1) buy one raw material tomorrow and 2) have a sip of water.

5. Next time you run into a piece of bahamet shell, you'll want to try making something different with it, because clearly the bangle you made won't bring you the profits you need.

That is survival advice, designed to get you through the frustration of finding someone with the authority and interest to hire you into a clan. It's not intended to sustain you for a long stretch of time. These are things your *character* should have learned if your character had gone on the hypothetical adventure I outlined above.

And don't forget grebbing (foraging), and scrounging (checking through garbage heaps and even just stuff that's abandoned on the road or on the shop floors and taking them to other shops to see if someone will buy them).

[Nyr]

I'm not impatient, I'm just starting to get fed up with being unable to do things on my own, not being able to join a clan or house, and having to deal with people who are trying to get me to quit just because I don't have awesome gear on.

I'm not making a third character.  Either this one takes off or I'm out of here.

Reach out to a helper? Are you sure you picked the right race for the location? I'm just saying some choices can make this game -very- hard on you.

I wish I could help you more but we're not allowed to discuss IC stuff on the board. Maybe open a question request and see if staff can field some questions?

I made recommended choices.

As a staffer, I know what choices you made, and they aren't the recommended ones--at least, most of them are not.

1.  Talk to helpers.  They can chat with you at a moment's notice, most of the time!
2.  Play a human.  Half-elves are looked down on by BOTH elves and dwarves, and they generally do not get to rise to positions of rank in the majority of organizations in the world.  Dwarves might not be hated as much as half-elves and elves, but they have a certain stigma about them and they ALSO will not get to rise to positions of rank in the majority of organizations in the world.  Elves?  Elves suck, everyone knows it except elves.  Not only do they not rise to positions of rank in the majority of organizations in the world, they don't even get allowed in.  The only race that faces no stigma or prejudice by default is the human race, so you should pick that one and you'll have a much easier time of people working to help you.  That's why it is recommended to take human as a racial choice.  Even then, you don't want to pick a human from the Labyrinth in Allanak (you'll STILL have trouble getting hired)!
3.  If you're given advice on what to do, giving it a decent "college try" will reap results.  For instance, if you're trying to sell stuff, if you only craft one thing to try to sell and only try to sell that one thing in a few places and get no results, you're going to feel disappointed and frustrated.  Take some time to try to figure out what didn't work.  In this case, each place you tried to sell at was a place that doesn't buy the thing you're trying to sell.  One of them is only a seller (I explained above).  Another of them is only a seller (and a customized one at that).  Another of them was a tailor (they "tailor" your clothes to your size).  Another two places didn't sell what you want to sell to them, so it stands to reason they may not want to buy it.  Check the map for the city you're in and go to the trade district and give it a shot there.  However...maybe try making something else!  See what IS sold in shops.  Try to make some other stuff.  However, as a new player and a new player to merchants, you might want to try the next step!
4.  Request storage for your character (through the request tool) and go with a human merchant and look to join House Kadius or an independent group.  You can ask around in-game and you'll find people willing to help a human out.

I'm not impatient, I'm just starting to get fed up with being unable to do things on my own, not being able to join a clan or house, and having to deal with people who are trying to get me to quit just because I don't have awesome gear on.

You can get enough gear in the "starter shops" that your gear won't scream "newbie."  And generally, people do not try to get you to quit just because you don't have awesome gear on.  Now, beware the guy wanting to go hang out with you in private (because he might want to take your coins and your not-so-awesome gear).  THAT might happen.  But no one is going to try and make you quit the game because you don't have awesome gear.  Might they treat your PC poorly in an in-character fashion because of where your character is from or because of what race your character is?  Yes.  That's in-character.  The player probably hates that they have to do that, but this is the kind of game they (and you) chose to play--a game in which racial prejudice is roleplayed out.

I'm not making a third character.  Either this one takes off or I'm out of here.

I really doubt your character is going to take off because it is not the recommended role for new players.  We are definitely trying to help.  I know you're frustrated, but I would strongly suggest storing and giving it a shot with a human.

[Feco]

We love you.

Our characters just may not get along.

[X-D]

I am simply going to back everything Nyr said.

And add, With current world wide IC events. People playing out the racism has actually increased...along with hatred for other things like where somebody might be from...or not from.

[Harmless]

Merchants are a hard role, one that takes a lot of time commitment and really necessitates having a mentor in the game! If you select merchant and anything besides human as your race, you are playing EXTRA SUPER DOUBLE HARD MODE, it is the armageddon equivalent to trying to play as a half-giant mage (as a loose example), or a half-orcish bard from another setting.

Please read all of Nyr's post above, but if you wanted more options, then you can consider the below:

Alternative to playing a merchant main guild: you can select a crafter subguild for your next character (in addition to playing as a human to make being on good terms with other merchants a lot easier).

If you select an armorcrafter or weaponcrafter subguild, you can seek employment with House Salarr.

If you select the tailor or jeweler subguilds, you can seek employment with House Kadius.

Here are some good ground rules for both of the above: be human, and do not get too friendly with elves or half-elves.

Good luck, and welcome! Remember, we the players want you to stay!

[slvrmoontiger]

Half-elves are definitely by far one of the most difficult races to play, especially half-elf merchants? Have I seen it done and done well? Yes, I have. Was that player a newbie, I doubt it.

Half-elves are hated by the Known over. Next to muls they are the most hated of all races. The issues that affect half-elves besides general world hatred are also extremely difficult to RP.

The best advice is to play a human to start out. Interact with as many different races as you can and learn how people play those races before playing them. Learn the city and the surrounding wilderness if need be. The first ever character is going to be difficult because you are learning something totally new. That's why the documentation suggests playing a human as your first character. I would recommend further that you play a human warrior with some sort of subguild of crafting if that's what you are interested in. There are many subguilds available that allow for crafting and those are a good start. As a human warrior you pretty much have unlimited possibilities for getting hired.

Welcome to Armageddon and hope you find something less frustrating to play in the future.

[Paladin]

Merchant is supposedly recommended for new players.  I don't see why I should have to be forced into seeking someone out in order to get anywhere in a newbie profession, just to learn and do the most basic merchant tasks.  It would make sense that I'd want to become connected with others in order to actually get going on moving up in a timely fashion and make more than just a few pennies per sale, but without being forced to sit on my hands until then.  I'd learn the game stuff on my own while gradually developing my connections socially.

I wouldn't say that this game is especially difficult--so far, it's been more like playing an arcade game with half the buttons not working than a bullet Hell SHMUP with only one life.  For a while I played a one-life-only game where 80% of the stuff I needed to buy, and 100% of the people I had to sell them to, were in a city where my character was not welcome; I had to leave the tent settlement and walk through a dangerous wilderness to get there and then contend with the people in the city, but at least there was no shoddy economic system preventing me from learning how basic class things worked in that particular game.

Again, I'm not going through the hassle of making a third character if this one doesn't take off.  If I can't even do basic merchant tasks on my own (remember, merchant is for newbies), what good is the rest of the game anyway?  Racial problems only manifest by hanging out in places where racial enemies hang out, and that's not difficult at all to avoid.

[Nyr]

Merchant is supposedly recommended for new players.  I don't see why I should have to be forced into seeking someone out in order to get anywhere in a newbie profession, just to learn and do the most basic merchant tasks.  It would make sense that I'd want to become connected with others in order to actually get going on moving up in a timely fashion and make more than just a few pennies per sale, but without being forced to sit on my hands until then.  I'd learn the game stuff on my own while gradually developing my connections socially.

Merchant is recommended for new players.  Humans are, too.  You didn't follow that recommendation.  If you don't see why you should try to learn how the game works by getting help from other players' PCs in an IC way, then I'm afraid you're going to have a bad time of it and this will probably be your last character (by your own reckoning). You also won't become connected with others because of the racial choice you've made, which is quite important and cannot be divorced from the guild choice you made (which was smart). You aren't forced to sit on your hands until then, you just need to do more than craft one thing and sell it in places that it doesn't make much sense to sell it.  You really should talk to a helper and ask your questions there, because they can guide you along (often in real time) and show you the things you're doing wrong.

but at least there was no shoddy economic system preventing me from learning how basic class things worked in that particular game.

You tried to sell one item to five shops, three of which only sell things, two of which don't even sell or buy the thing you tried to sell.  That doesn't mean the economic system is shoddy, it means you have more to learn and more work to do.  No, it's not the best economic system ever, but this is not an example of it being shoddy.  That's why we're suggesting trying some other things and even trying a new character of a type that is recommended for new players.

If I can't even do basic merchant tasks on my own (remember, merchant is for newbies), what good is the rest of the game anyway?

Remember, human is for newbies as well.  You can't separate the guild from the race and act like doing half of what is recommended is fine.  Guild choice is not something that meets with prejudice unless you're a magicker or a psionicist.  Racial choice meets with prejudice and difficulties that must be seen as IC difficulties (and not the other players trying to keep you from enjoying the game--this IS part of the game).

You're wanting to go this alone without accepting help from players (the helpers), other players (on the GDB--you seem to spurn all suggestions provided), or staff (you haven't put in a request for help or wished up).  You seem very convinced you're going to do this on your own with no help from anyone, and if it doesn't work out, it's because we are trying to keep you from joining in. 

It seems like you've already made up your mind, so I guess...go ahead and give it a shot!   However, if you can't be bothered to listen to other players, what good is posting on this forum for help anyway?

Racial problems only manifest by hanging out in places where racial enemies hang out, and that's not difficult at all to avoid.

Human is the dominant race.  You'd be surprised where they hang out (i.e., everywhere except where half-elves hang out, which is nowhere, and where elves hang out, which is about half of the 'rinth).

I know how all of the crafting skills work.

I would be willing to bet that you don't.  You just used the skill for the first time yesterday right not an hour before posting this thread.  I'd recommend once again that you accept the advice offered here, we are definitely trying to help, but you don't seem to want any help.

[Paladin]

If I didn't want help I wouldn't be asking.  If you aren't posting here to help, what are you here for?

My problems have nothing to do with racial concerns.  Race accounts for about 0% of my problems so far.

[Nyr]

Okay then.  I'll lock this thread so you can focus on reading and doing some of things suggested here.