Magickers in Allanak

[jstorrie]

buffz plz

I'm not going to lie, this bugged the shit out of me.

Me too.

[BuNutzCola]

At least magickers were handled better then in the coppers wars from the point of view of the enemy.  Back when you were considered a complete and total twink if your 50 day ranger decided to attack a sleeping unprepared noob magicker rather immediately dropping all their gear as an offering and running to shiver in the nearest corner.  Back when whirans were still 4 karma. Back when you still had to dismount before attacking. And barrier wha? One prepared magicker is hard to deal with, no rp fear necessary but several magicker all buffing each other. Oh boy sure was fun losing my 20 or 30 day old character to that even though they were riding around with a large group including templars. Well they were captured thanks to magickers which he could do nothing about so the death was kinda cool.

It is really a balance issue.

Armageddon isn't really balanced through its classes but there is a wonderful balance to it which is sometimes facilitated through RP.  A magicker has to choose between being isolated or being unprepared most of the time, basically you can't be fully buffed and sitting at a tavern around people.  Magickers should be feared, otherwise if working with magickers became the norm rather then a unique experience, then those people who have absolutely no chance to work with them would be at a severe disadvantage in terms of RP experience. Why make a warrior in the north, when i could make him in the south, befriend a magicker and do and experience a lot cooler stuff without any consequences?

Personally i would love to see mundanes get just a few more neat stuff in order to make being a magicker just a little less attractive. Something like flying mounts being more common or something but that is probably just me.

There are definitely coded advantages to being a mundane class over being a magicker, and vice versa. They are situational and social, but there are certainly pros and cons to both.

The days of the "X-men", I personally feel, are long behind us. I've seen phenomenal roleplay from most magickers I have encountered in the game. It's a far cry from speaking Tatlum in the Gaj openly and riding magickal beasts while on fire down Caravan's Way, and there being literally no repurcussions (sp? For some reason I can never spell this word properly) for repeat offenses.

Yes, magickers are capable of some insanely powerful things. So is a warrior with high scan and subdue. So is an assassin with excellent hide and backstab.

Not attempting to side with magickers/mundanes/anything. The reason they cost karma is two-fold (At least fmpov) They are capable of incredible feats a fair amount quicker than a mundane, and there is a difficult social aspect that requires some responsibility to maintain. I.E, not becoming the witch that's cool to enchant up his warrior bynner friends on a regular basis.

[IssacF]

At least magickers were handled better then in the coppers wars from the point of view of the enemy.  Back when you were considered a complete and total twink if your 50 day ranger decided to attack a sleeping unprepared noob magicker rather immediately dropping all their gear as an offering and running to shiver in the nearest corner.  Back when whirans were still 4 karma. Back when you still had to dismount before attacking. And barrier wha? One prepared magicker is hard to deal with, no rp fear necessary but several magicker all buffing each other. Oh boy sure was fun losing my 20 or 30 day old character to that even though they were riding around with a large group including templars. Well they were captured thanks to magickers which he could do nothing about so the death was kinda cool.

It is really a balance issue.

Armageddon isn't really balanced through its classes but there is a wonderful balance to it which is sometimes facilitated through RP.  A magicker has to choose between being isolated or being unprepared most of the time, basically you can't be fully buffed and sitting at a tavern around people.  Magickers should be feared, otherwise if working with magickers became the norm rather then a unique experience, then those people who have absolutely no chance to work with them would be at a severe disadvantage in terms of RP experience. Why make a warrior in the north, when i could make him in the south, befriend a magicker and do and experience a lot cooler stuff without any consequences?

Personally i would love to see mundanes get just a few more neat stuff in order to make being a magicker just a little less attractive. Something like flying mounts being more common or something but that is probably just me.

Very good points that you bring in. I too believe that it offsets their power by being feared and reviled. The only time I as a mundane would allow a gemmed to aid me if it's a point were I'm between life and death. I don't think the mundane classess need something to make them appealing. I don't see a lot of gemmed nor have met a lot of ungemmed. During the HRPT I probably counted 6-8 or so Gemmed? I think the isolation is quite unappealing to many players.

[LauraMars]

The days of the "X-men", I personally feel, are long behind us.

I jumped back into the game again around March/April of this year, but the last time I was truly invested in the game was right after the x-men days were starting to wind down (2008-2009ish - you played then as well BNC if I recall), and the contrast between then and now is huge.  So yeah.  That's all over with.  That time period was....interesting....I'm not gonna say it was bad because some interesting things happened, but I prefer what we have now.  I've been really impressed by how willing most people seem to adhere to the documentation, and how much more gritty things feel all around.

I will say that whenever I'm playing a magicker, I sometimes long for the days of being a mundane class who can interact fairly normally with everyone, and whenever I'm playing a mundane, I will occasionally think "gee, this situation would be interesting if I was playing a magicker role."  The grass is always greener.  Fortunately (or unfortunately), I always, eventually, get my chance to try another role.

[Vwest]

buffz plz

I'm not going to lie, this bugged the shit out of me.

Me too.

[IssacF]

The days of the "X-men", I personally feel, are long behind us.

I jumped back into the game again around March/April of this year, but the last time I was truly invested in the game was right after the x-men days were starting to wind down (2008-2009ish - you played then as well BNC if I recall), and the contrast between then and now is huge.  So yeah.  That's all over with.  That time period was....interesting....I'm not gonna say it was bad because some interesting things happened, but I prefer what we have now.  I've been really impressed by how willing most people seem to adhere to the documentation, and how much more gritty things feel all around.

I will say that whenever I'm playing a magicker, I sometimes long for the days of being a mundane class who can interact fairly normally with everyone, and whenever I'm playing a mundane, I will occasionally think "gee, this situation would be interesting if I was playing a magicker role."  The grass is always greener.  Fortunately (or unfortunately), I always, eventually, get my chance to try another role.

I've been wondering how it feels to be a magicker but haven't had the guts to attempt one yet. Is the isolation truly that bad? Because it would seem playing a magicker might be boring. And by magicker I mean a gemmed one. I play Arm for the interactions more than anything else.

[manonfire]

I've been wondering how it feels to be a magicker but haven't had the guts to attempt one yet. Is the isolation truly that bad? Because it would seem playing a magicker might be boring. And by magicker I mean a gemmed one. I play Arm for the interactions more than anything else.

Playing a magicker is Armageddon on easy mode. There's usually a community of gemmers in Allanak that hang out together - that said, you'll generally find better RP as an indie magicker as part of a little 'gicker commune, assuming you know where to look.

[BuNutzCola]

I've been wondering how it feels to be a magicker but haven't had the guts to attempt one yet. Is the isolation truly that bad? Because it would seem playing a magicker might be boring. And by magicker I mean a gemmed one. I play Arm for the interactions more than anything else.

Playing a magicker is Armageddon on easy mode. There's usually a community of gemmers in Allanak that hang out together - that said, you'll generally find better RP as an indie magicker as part of a little 'gicker commune, assuming you know where to look.

Generally like you, MoF, but this is a pretty shitty comment. It's true most "new" magicker players choose gemmed to get their feet wet. And you often see a lot of the skill spamming from Gemmed. But there's plenty of quality roleplay to be had no matter where you are. In all honesty "gicker communes" outside of the city strike me as horrendously jarring. Gemmed are a community because...well, they often have to be. (And there's plenty of opportunities for conflict amongst gemmed.)

The "Rogue" magicker not only lacks the marginalized community that a Gem provides, but also the means of regularly associating with other witches in a manner that -might- lead them to learn to trust other magickers.

Teams of rogues are, by and large, oocly driven, in my mind. There are certainly some good exceptions, but they are few and far between.

[manonfire]

I was being neither objective or exclusionary - there are exceptions to every rule.

I've simply found more engaging play amongst independent magickers.

[FantasyWriter]

I've been wondering how it feels to be a magicker but haven't had the guts to attempt one yet. Is the isolation truly that bad? Because it would seem playing a magicker might be boring. And by magicker I mean a gemmed one. I play Arm for the interactions more than anything else.

Playing a magicker is Armageddon on easy mode. There's usually a community of gemmers in Allanak that hang out together - that said, you'll generally find better RP as an indie magicker as part of a little 'gicker commune, assuming you know where to look.

Generally like you, MoF, but this is a pretty shitty comment. It's true most "new" magicker players choose gemmed to get their feet wet. And you often see a lot of the skill spamming from Gemmed. But there's plenty of quality roleplay to be had no matter where you are. In all honesty "gicker communes" outside of the city strike me as horrendously jarring. Gemmed are a community because...well, they often have to be. (And there's plenty of opportunities for conflict amongst gemmed.)

The "Rogue" magicker not only lacks the marginalized community that a Gem provides, but also the means of regularly associating with other witches in a manner that -might- lead them to learn to trust other magickers.

Teams of rogues are, by and large, oocly driven, in my mind. There are certainly some good exceptions, but they are few and far between.

So you believe the idea of feared, hated, and persecuted individuals seeking out and finding one another for the mutual benifits of survival and community is not a feasible IC desire?

[BuNutzCola]

There are certainly exceptions. Seeking them out though? Probably not. A gemmed is forced into a particular community, and at the very least has the fall-back of knowing the other witches are similarly monitored, if not trusted.

A rogue witch has no sort of protection from the next rogue witch. In most, and I emphasize most, they have very little cause to find other witches. This is exacerbated by the fact they have to keep themselves hidden from the general populace, so they can't exactly advertise. How exactly does one newly manifested fellow, apparently appalled at the relative safety, albeit ostracization that a Gem provides, begin to seek out other witches, having no community possible to rely upon to teach them what to look for/identify/beware of?

At least from my pov rogues seeking out other rogues wouldn't be a common thing. Does/can it happen? Sure. But by and large I think it's snowflake as hell to develop a rag-tag group of rogue magickers.

Edit to add: These are just my opinions. by the by. I very much understand there are sometimes great things that come from teaming up as rogues, and exceptions that lead to those circumstances.

[ohrather]

Totes agree with BNC, though an argument can be made for rogues banding together.  Even if the wastes seem empty, they are not.  There is strength in numbers, and a single person going it alone is likely to be killed for their boots.  Even a mindbending half-vestric sorcerer needs to sleep once in a while, and it's helpful to have a loyal minion or two watching your back.

Rogue gickers who befriend everyone they meet generally learn not to trust easily, or they die quick.  Most rogue gicker groups have been pretty good about mistrusting outsiders.

[Maso]

If I was a rogue gicker IRL, with all the same social implications as in Arm etc....I'd want some buddies. Just like criminals band together in gangs and stuff. Makes sense to me.

[janeshephard]

If I was a rogue gicker IRL, with all the same social implications as in Arm etc....I'd want some buddies. Just like criminals band together in gangs and stuff. Makes sense to me.

Yep.

[BuNutzCola]

Except you're not a just a criminal by RL standards. You're a horrendous child-molester that hasn't been brought to justice yet.

[Jengal]

Yeah, I don't see how you can casually hint that you're a magicker since it'll probably lead to you getting killed very quickly in pretty much every area of the world.

[BuNutzCola]

Somewhere in the Red Desert....

The figure in a grey cloak stands here, crouched on a dune.

The figure in a sandcloth duster as arrived from the east.


Inching over, the figure in a grey cloak says, in sirihish:

"'ey mate, you -family?"

[BleakOne]

I'd tend to agree that it would be more likely two magickers would find each other to be abominations (particularly if not of the same element) or dangers more than friends. Nonetheless, they may band together, but it would be fairly uncommon, I'd say.

I could see a powerful defiler taking on 'lesser' magickers as minions, though.

[Vwest]

Yeah, I don't see how you can casually hint that you're a magicker since it'll probably lead to you getting killed very quickly in pretty much every area of the world.

Your jaw would hit the floor if you traveled with my last character.

What passes for 'probably wouldn't happen' on the GDB is a far cry from how things happen in-game.

[Lizzie]

I'd tend to agree that it would be more likely two magickers would find each other to be abominations (particularly if not of the same element) or dangers more than friends. Nonetheless, they may band together, but it would be fairly uncommon, I'd say.

I could see a powerful defiler taking on 'lesser' magickers as minions, though.

And then those lesser magickers become co-conspirators. Maybe not pals, or family - but definitely members of the same general unofficial unsanctioned loosely-knit organization.

[Wug]

Magickers and normal people shouldn't be friendly. They shouldn't really even associate with each other except when they have to. If you're a commoner in Allanak and you have rogue magicker friends, your life is forfeit. You would feel like a monster and know that the templarate publicly murders "people" like you. If you have gemmer friends, you're going to be scrutinized too. There is a division between commoners and the gemmed. At the least you will be ostracized. Templars can and have tortured or executed people for breaking these social norms. At worst, you'll be experimented on or cursed by your magickal "friends".

From help magick

Magick is a mysterious and very rare power on Zalanthas, about which the
general public knows very little, and generally fears and hates a great
deal. While magickers are tolerated in some places, they are generally
feared and distrusted by the vast majority of the population of Zalanthas.
In many places, magickers are killed upon discovery, and even the rumor
that one is a magicker can lead to one's death.

Overall, the game world is very good about playing out this magickal mistrust. With a recent influx of new players we need to make sure that social norms stay normal and that exceptions remain rare and realistically shunned.

Magickers are very often isolated roles. Even the gemmed. That's a large part of the reason they require karma. A magicker player must be patient and dedicated enough to sometimes forgo interaction in favor of realism.

[Feco]

The way magickers interact, rogue or not, is far more complicated than can be, or has been, said on the GDB.  Just thought I'd throw that out there.

There are coded and "lore" aspects to this.  If you think someone/a group of someone's is being unrealistic, file a player complaint.

[FantasyWriter]

Except you're not a just a criminal by RL standards. You're a horrendous child-molester that hasn't been brought to justice yet.

Even child molesting pedophiles and pornographers band together IRL, dude.

[Wug]

Let's stop using that metaphor.

[janeshephard]

If I was a rogue gicker IRL, with all the same social implications as in Arm etc....I'd want some buddies. Just like criminals band together in gangs and stuff. Makes sense to me.

Yep.

I should qualify this. While the rogue magickers I played in the past were -all- isolated, they did interact with other rogues from time to time. There are relationships with other magickers and criminals. There's far less direct interaction with commoners from the city states.

No idea what gemmed life is like these days. I can't say I ever liked gemmed life but I recall it wasn't all rosey between the gemmed. There was competition and rivalry.