Magickers in Allanak

[IssacF]

http://gdb.armageddon.org/index.php/topic,36171.msg469384.html#msg469384

Was reading different topics and came up with this one. Do notice the beggining quote about the X-Men Magickers. In this last HRPT I actually enjoyed that despite my character's fears for the Gemmed, he had a healthy respect for them and never spoke ill off them as well as willing to work with them for the benefit of His City. Furthermore they all turned out to be extremely valuable during the beggining of the HRPT all the way leading to the events of its conclusion. Furthermore from an OOC perspective it was funny how many people were suddenly willing to have Magick touch their bodies in the form of protecive spells. And how mostly everyone was suddenly treating Gemmed with respect. Ironic? Maybe.

I'd wish the Gemmed weren't X-men Magickers doing everything and not leaving a chance for us mundanes to do anything. But by that same token I think us mundane should have at least a modicum of respect because one never knows when they will need one to cover ones a**.

Thoughts?

[manonfire]

I thought the Red Robe present during the HRPT did a pretty great job mitigating all the twitchy nervousness most characters were expressing over the 'gickers doing their thing.

It's really the only reason my character wasn't completely losing his shit.

[LauraMars]

all the twitchy nervousness most characters were expressing

This was awesome, by the way.

[Barsook]

all the twitchy nervousness most characters were expressing

This was awesome, by the way.

[ShaLeah]

Magicks are scary, they're unknown, fabled, terrifying. In Allanak where they are very present and very marked, I'd say even more so.

That said, even some of that fear might end up in cautious respect if a character is always around them gicks. As a regular commoner I would think we'd be really suspicious of ANYONE who is chummy with gicks.

I played a HG who was raised by a gick, she had no fear of anything but the dark, she was a perfect fit for someplace. But she was also stupider than most.

[IssacF]

Well my character straight out feared them but hid it well. It was a constant debate between his logic and his instinct.

Logic says, in a calm voice: These Gemmed are here to assist us. They provide us with water, transportation and will burn out enemies.
Instinct says, screaming at the back of your head: How do you know that water isn't poisoned huh?! Or that during one of those transportations they teleport you to the wrong place and say 'Oops'?! Or that during the moment they are shooting fire they don't accidentally hit you with a fireball?!

[Barzalene]

http://gdb.armageddon.org/index.php/topic,36171.msg469384.html#msg469384

Was reading different topics and came up with this one. Do notice the beggining quote about the X-Men Magickers. In this last HRPT I actually enjoyed that despite my character's fears for the Gemmed, he had a healthy respect for them and never spoke ill off them as well as willing to work with them for the benefit of His City. Furthermore they all turned out to be extremely valuable during the beggining of the HRPT all the way leading to the events of its conclusion. Furthermore from an OOC perspective it was funny how many people were suddenly willing to have Magick touch their bodies in the form of protecive spells. And how mostly everyone was suddenly treating Gemmed with respect. Ironic? Maybe.

I'd wish the Gemmed weren't X-men Magickers doing everything and not leaving a chance for us mundanes to do anything. But by that same token I think us mundane should have at least a modicum of respect because one never knows when they will need one to cover ones a**.

Thoughts?

Magickers are played well. That's awesome. But if we justify their ic ick factor with justifications like they're useful, Joe's a good guy etc. we lose something. It's better for the game to always remember that if you stand too close to nice and useful Joe, there's a good chance your peepee may fall off.

[IssacF]

Checked the TvTropes page and saw this:

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MagicIsEvil

Although I highly agree I think that if the Gemmed are around and the City hasn't gone to shit, and Templars keep these 'weapons' in line maybe our fears are too excessive and misplaced? I mean there are occurences were Nice Joe the Gemmed totally <flips> but they usually end up executed, which usually deters the next Nice Shmoe from being so stupid. But still His City hasn't gone to Gicker Hell and there are quite a few of them...

[Nyr]

Your fears about magick or magickers are never too excessive, nor are they misplaced.  You never know if you'll be walking down the street now, minding your own business, when suddenly

volcano

[Patuk]

Checked the TvTropes page and saw this:

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MagicIsEvil

Although I highly agree I think that if the Gemmed are around and the City hasn't gone to shit, and Templars keep these 'weapons' in line maybe our fears are too excessive and misplaced? I mean there are occurences were Nice Joe the Gemmed totally <flips> but they usually end up executed, which usually deters the next Nice Shmoe from being so stupid. But still His City hasn't gone to Gicker Hell and there are quite a few of them...

I added that trope to Arm's page already. Check it out.

Anycase.

Allanak has gone to 'gicker hell. Baby die in childbirth? 'gicker. Person gets sick? 'gicker. Can't find any proper salts lately? 'gicker. Your pack sunback creeps out and scurries the fuck off? 'gicker scared him. Get pregnant and it hurts like fuck? 'gicker placing a demonspawn inside of you. Merchant can't cut a good deal for weeks? 'gicker cursing them with bad luck.

I could go on, but you get the idea.

[IssacF]

Checked the TvTropes page and saw this:

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MagicIsEvil

Although I highly agree I think that if the Gemmed are around and the City hasn't gone to shit, and Templars keep these 'weapons' in line maybe our fears are too excessive and misplaced? I mean there are occurences were Nice Joe the Gemmed totally <flips> but they usually end up executed, which usually deters the next Nice Shmoe from being so stupid. But still His City hasn't gone to Gicker Hell and there are quite a few of them...

I added that trope to Arm's page already. Check it out.

Anycase.

Allanak has gone to 'gicker hell. Baby die in childbirth? 'gicker. Person gets sick? 'gicker. Can't find any proper salts lately? 'gicker. Your pack sunback creeps out and scurries the fuck off? 'gicker scared him. Get pregnant and it hurts like fuck? 'gicker placing a demonspawn inside of you. Merchant can't cut a good deal for weeks? 'gicker cursing them with bad luck.

I could go on, but you get the idea.

Heh yep. Valid point. Anything that goes wrong is automatically the gicker's fault. Then why have them around? That's like having mini Hulk's around. And everyone knows Hulk is considered a loose cannon. It's like throwing a grenade into a group and hope it kills only the bad guys. Why don't we just kill the gickers on site? I know they have value as 'weapons' but is it a good idea to have these weapons around who can suddenly do some serious s*** to you?

[Patuk]

Checked the TvTropes page and saw this:

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MagicIsEvil

Although I highly agree I think that if the Gemmed are around and the City hasn't gone to shit, and Templars keep these 'weapons' in line maybe our fears are too excessive and misplaced? I mean there are occurences were Nice Joe the Gemmed totally <flips> but they usually end up executed, which usually deters the next Nice Shmoe from being so stupid. But still His City hasn't gone to Gicker Hell and there are quite a few of them...

I added that trope to Arm's page already. Check it out.

Anycase.

Allanak has gone to 'gicker hell. Baby die in childbirth? 'gicker. Person gets sick? 'gicker. Can't find any proper salts lately? 'gicker. Your pack sunback creeps out and scurries the fuck off? 'gicker scared him. Get pregnant and it hurts like fuck? 'gicker placing a demonspawn inside of you. Merchant can't cut a good deal for weeks? 'gicker cursing them with bad luck.

I could go on, but you get the idea.

Heh yep. Valid point. Anything that goes wrong is automatically the gicker's fault. Then why have them around? That's like having mini Hulk's around. And everyone knows Hulk is considered a loose cannon. It's like throwing a grenade into a group and hope it kills only the bad guys. Why don't we just kill the gickers on site? I know they have value as 'weapons' but is it a good idea to have these weapons around who can suddenly do some serious s*** to you?

Because the Templars will tear you a new one for doing so in plain sight.

When the plain sight thing does not apply, well.. All bets are off.

[IssacF]

Hmm basically same reason why Avengers have the Hulk. The potential damage he can inflict on the Avengers enemies outweigh their own fears of Hulk going on a rampage destroying cities.

So in other words for Templars, Gemmed are the equivalent of potential weapons in their power struggles(?)

[Patuk]

Hmm basically same reason why Avengers have the Hulk. The potential damage he can inflict on the Avengers enemies outweigh their own fears of Hulk going on a rampage destroying cities.

So in other words for Templars, Gemmed are the equivalent of potential weapons in their power struggles(?)

For some, yes.

There's a lot of templars, though, and some may hate the gemmed as much as any other man. Or not.

Look, there isn't always a homogenous answer to everything. There's multiple reasons for all this, and factors contributing to hate, trust, uses, but the bottom line is that without the templarate and His Arm to go with them, the Gemmed would be at the mercy of the common folk.

As to what that would mean for the gemmed, well.. Look at our various tribals, I'd say. They're fairly good examples of what'd happen if you leave people to deal with magick by themselves.

[IssacF]

Hmmm... Yes I believe that without the Templars to regulate things the common folk would have attempted to oust and exterminate the Gemmed. As it stands their fears of the Gemmed is suppresed by their greater fear of the Templars. Makes perfect sense.

[JustAnotherGuy]

I know personally I change up every characters opinion on magick and magickers.  Some are tolerant and just keep their distances, some despise to downright hate them due to whatever reason or no reason at all, and even some like them, but maybe not openly as to cause issues amongst others.  Though I have thought of a concept of a character that wanted to be a magicker but never will be... magicker wannabe.  Heh, that would be an interesting concept.

[Harmless]

Fear.

Bottom line is, fear is the basic emotional response to magick, and that should be nearly universal.

Other than that, it can go however you like.

[IssacF]

I know personally I change up every characters opinion on magick and magickers.  Some are tolerant and just keep their distances, some despise to downright hate them due to whatever reason or no reason at all, and even some like them, but maybe not openly as to cause issues amongst others.  Though I have thought of a concept of a character that wanted to be a magicker but never will be... magicker wannabe.  Heh, that would be an interesting concept.

This topic is making me think of a concept:

A magicker who before he became magicker had an irrational hatred and fear of them... And now 'oops' he is a magicker. Will he get depressed? Hate himself? Be an hypocrite?

[jstorrie]

That's every magicker.

[BleakOne]

As for the HRPT, I think a lot of PCs were just more scared of angering the city's Powers That Be who were literally right there, to announce the normal concerns and disgust.

[Vwest]

buffz plz

[RogueGunslinger]

buffz plz

I'm not going to lie, this bugged the shit out of me.

[Delirium]

I guess it can be explained as: when shit hits the fan, people are more afraid of dying than they are of magick.

But it would seem kind of jarring.

edit: as for my opinions on magickers, I think the comparisons to them as walking grenades is reasonably apt.

[IssacF]

I guess it can be explained as: when shit hits the fan, people are more afraid of dying than they are of magick.

But it would seem kind of jarring.

edit: as for my opinions on magickers, I think the comparisons to them as walking grenades is reasonably apt.

We agree. That is how I see them. Or the equivalent of Hulk for the Avengers. And the Avengers <got> powers yet they all reasonably fear Hulk. So much that they exile him off to space...

[Dresan]

At least magickers were handled better then in the coppers wars from the point of view of the enemy.  Back when you were considered a complete and total twink if your 50 day ranger decided to attack a sleeping unprepared noob magicker rather immediately dropping all their gear as an offering and running to shiver in the nearest corner.  Back when whirans were still 4 karma. Back when you still had to dismount before attacking. And barrier wha? One prepared magicker is hard to deal with, no rp fear necessary but several magicker all buffing each other. Oh boy sure was fun losing my 20 or 30 day old character to that even though they were riding around with a large group including templars. Well they were captured thanks to magickers which he could do nothing about so the death was kinda cool.

It is really a balance issue.

Armageddon isn't really balanced through its classes but there is a wonderful balance to it which is sometimes facilitated through RP.  A magicker has to choose between being isolated or being unprepared most of the time, basically you can't be fully buffed and sitting at a tavern around people.  Magickers should be feared, otherwise if working with magickers became the norm rather then a unique experience, then those people who have absolutely no chance to work with them would be at a severe disadvantage in terms of RP experience. Why make a warrior in the north, when i could make him in the south, befriend a magicker and do and experience a lot cooler stuff without any consequences?

Personally i would love to see mundanes get just a few more neat stuff in order to make being a magicker just a little less attractive. Something like flying mounts being more common or something but that is probably just me.

[jstorrie]

buffz plz

I'm not going to lie, this bugged the shit out of me.

Me too.

[BuNutzCola]

At least magickers were handled better then in the coppers wars from the point of view of the enemy.  Back when you were considered a complete and total twink if your 50 day ranger decided to attack a sleeping unprepared noob magicker rather immediately dropping all their gear as an offering and running to shiver in the nearest corner.  Back when whirans were still 4 karma. Back when you still had to dismount before attacking. And barrier wha? One prepared magicker is hard to deal with, no rp fear necessary but several magicker all buffing each other. Oh boy sure was fun losing my 20 or 30 day old character to that even though they were riding around with a large group including templars. Well they were captured thanks to magickers which he could do nothing about so the death was kinda cool.

It is really a balance issue.

Armageddon isn't really balanced through its classes but there is a wonderful balance to it which is sometimes facilitated through RP.  A magicker has to choose between being isolated or being unprepared most of the time, basically you can't be fully buffed and sitting at a tavern around people.  Magickers should be feared, otherwise if working with magickers became the norm rather then a unique experience, then those people who have absolutely no chance to work with them would be at a severe disadvantage in terms of RP experience. Why make a warrior in the north, when i could make him in the south, befriend a magicker and do and experience a lot cooler stuff without any consequences?

Personally i would love to see mundanes get just a few more neat stuff in order to make being a magicker just a little less attractive. Something like flying mounts being more common or something but that is probably just me.

There are definitely coded advantages to being a mundane class over being a magicker, and vice versa. They are situational and social, but there are certainly pros and cons to both.

The days of the "X-men", I personally feel, are long behind us. I've seen phenomenal roleplay from most magickers I have encountered in the game. It's a far cry from speaking Tatlum in the Gaj openly and riding magickal beasts while on fire down Caravan's Way, and there being literally no repurcussions (sp? For some reason I can never spell this word properly) for repeat offenses.

Yes, magickers are capable of some insanely powerful things. So is a warrior with high scan and subdue. So is an assassin with excellent hide and backstab.

Not attempting to side with magickers/mundanes/anything. The reason they cost karma is two-fold (At least fmpov) They are capable of incredible feats a fair amount quicker than a mundane, and there is a difficult social aspect that requires some responsibility to maintain. I.E, not becoming the witch that's cool to enchant up his warrior bynner friends on a regular basis.

[IssacF]

At least magickers were handled better then in the coppers wars from the point of view of the enemy.  Back when you were considered a complete and total twink if your 50 day ranger decided to attack a sleeping unprepared noob magicker rather immediately dropping all their gear as an offering and running to shiver in the nearest corner.  Back when whirans were still 4 karma. Back when you still had to dismount before attacking. And barrier wha? One prepared magicker is hard to deal with, no rp fear necessary but several magicker all buffing each other. Oh boy sure was fun losing my 20 or 30 day old character to that even though they were riding around with a large group including templars. Well they were captured thanks to magickers which he could do nothing about so the death was kinda cool.

It is really a balance issue.

Armageddon isn't really balanced through its classes but there is a wonderful balance to it which is sometimes facilitated through RP.  A magicker has to choose between being isolated or being unprepared most of the time, basically you can't be fully buffed and sitting at a tavern around people.  Magickers should be feared, otherwise if working with magickers became the norm rather then a unique experience, then those people who have absolutely no chance to work with them would be at a severe disadvantage in terms of RP experience. Why make a warrior in the north, when i could make him in the south, befriend a magicker and do and experience a lot cooler stuff without any consequences?

Personally i would love to see mundanes get just a few more neat stuff in order to make being a magicker just a little less attractive. Something like flying mounts being more common or something but that is probably just me.

Very good points that you bring in. I too believe that it offsets their power by being feared and reviled. The only time I as a mundane would allow a gemmed to aid me if it's a point were I'm between life and death. I don't think the mundane classess need something to make them appealing. I don't see a lot of gemmed nor have met a lot of ungemmed. During the HRPT I probably counted 6-8 or so Gemmed? I think the isolation is quite unappealing to many players.

[LauraMars]

The days of the "X-men", I personally feel, are long behind us.

I jumped back into the game again around March/April of this year, but the last time I was truly invested in the game was right after the x-men days were starting to wind down (2008-2009ish - you played then as well BNC if I recall), and the contrast between then and now is huge.  So yeah.  That's all over with.  That time period was....interesting....I'm not gonna say it was bad because some interesting things happened, but I prefer what we have now.  I've been really impressed by how willing most people seem to adhere to the documentation, and how much more gritty things feel all around.

I will say that whenever I'm playing a magicker, I sometimes long for the days of being a mundane class who can interact fairly normally with everyone, and whenever I'm playing a mundane, I will occasionally think "gee, this situation would be interesting if I was playing a magicker role."  The grass is always greener.  Fortunately (or unfortunately), I always, eventually, get my chance to try another role.

[Vwest]

buffz plz

I'm not going to lie, this bugged the shit out of me.

Me too.

[IssacF]

The days of the "X-men", I personally feel, are long behind us.

I jumped back into the game again around March/April of this year, but the last time I was truly invested in the game was right after the x-men days were starting to wind down (2008-2009ish - you played then as well BNC if I recall), and the contrast between then and now is huge.  So yeah.  That's all over with.  That time period was....interesting....I'm not gonna say it was bad because some interesting things happened, but I prefer what we have now.  I've been really impressed by how willing most people seem to adhere to the documentation, and how much more gritty things feel all around.

I will say that whenever I'm playing a magicker, I sometimes long for the days of being a mundane class who can interact fairly normally with everyone, and whenever I'm playing a mundane, I will occasionally think "gee, this situation would be interesting if I was playing a magicker role."  The grass is always greener.  Fortunately (or unfortunately), I always, eventually, get my chance to try another role.

I've been wondering how it feels to be a magicker but haven't had the guts to attempt one yet. Is the isolation truly that bad? Because it would seem playing a magicker might be boring. And by magicker I mean a gemmed one. I play Arm for the interactions more than anything else.

[manonfire]

I've been wondering how it feels to be a magicker but haven't had the guts to attempt one yet. Is the isolation truly that bad? Because it would seem playing a magicker might be boring. And by magicker I mean a gemmed one. I play Arm for the interactions more than anything else.

Playing a magicker is Armageddon on easy mode. There's usually a community of gemmers in Allanak that hang out together - that said, you'll generally find better RP as an indie magicker as part of a little 'gicker commune, assuming you know where to look.

[BuNutzCola]

I've been wondering how it feels to be a magicker but haven't had the guts to attempt one yet. Is the isolation truly that bad? Because it would seem playing a magicker might be boring. And by magicker I mean a gemmed one. I play Arm for the interactions more than anything else.

Playing a magicker is Armageddon on easy mode. There's usually a community of gemmers in Allanak that hang out together - that said, you'll generally find better RP as an indie magicker as part of a little 'gicker commune, assuming you know where to look.

Generally like you, MoF, but this is a pretty shitty comment. It's true most "new" magicker players choose gemmed to get their feet wet. And you often see a lot of the skill spamming from Gemmed. But there's plenty of quality roleplay to be had no matter where you are. In all honesty "gicker communes" outside of the city strike me as horrendously jarring. Gemmed are a community because...well, they often have to be. (And there's plenty of opportunities for conflict amongst gemmed.)

The "Rogue" magicker not only lacks the marginalized community that a Gem provides, but also the means of regularly associating with other witches in a manner that -might- lead them to learn to trust other magickers.

Teams of rogues are, by and large, oocly driven, in my mind. There are certainly some good exceptions, but they are few and far between.

[manonfire]

I was being neither objective or exclusionary - there are exceptions to every rule.

I've simply found more engaging play amongst independent magickers.

[FantasyWriter]

I've been wondering how it feels to be a magicker but haven't had the guts to attempt one yet. Is the isolation truly that bad? Because it would seem playing a magicker might be boring. And by magicker I mean a gemmed one. I play Arm for the interactions more than anything else.

Playing a magicker is Armageddon on easy mode. There's usually a community of gemmers in Allanak that hang out together - that said, you'll generally find better RP as an indie magicker as part of a little 'gicker commune, assuming you know where to look.

Generally like you, MoF, but this is a pretty shitty comment. It's true most "new" magicker players choose gemmed to get their feet wet. And you often see a lot of the skill spamming from Gemmed. But there's plenty of quality roleplay to be had no matter where you are. In all honesty "gicker communes" outside of the city strike me as horrendously jarring. Gemmed are a community because...well, they often have to be. (And there's plenty of opportunities for conflict amongst gemmed.)

The "Rogue" magicker not only lacks the marginalized community that a Gem provides, but also the means of regularly associating with other witches in a manner that -might- lead them to learn to trust other magickers.

Teams of rogues are, by and large, oocly driven, in my mind. There are certainly some good exceptions, but they are few and far between.

So you believe the idea of feared, hated, and persecuted individuals seeking out and finding one another for the mutual benifits of survival and community is not a feasible IC desire?

[BuNutzCola]

There are certainly exceptions. Seeking them out though? Probably not. A gemmed is forced into a particular community, and at the very least has the fall-back of knowing the other witches are similarly monitored, if not trusted.

A rogue witch has no sort of protection from the next rogue witch. In most, and I emphasize most, they have very little cause to find other witches. This is exacerbated by the fact they have to keep themselves hidden from the general populace, so they can't exactly advertise. How exactly does one newly manifested fellow, apparently appalled at the relative safety, albeit ostracization that a Gem provides, begin to seek out other witches, having no community possible to rely upon to teach them what to look for/identify/beware of?

At least from my pov rogues seeking out other rogues wouldn't be a common thing. Does/can it happen? Sure. But by and large I think it's snowflake as hell to develop a rag-tag group of rogue magickers.

Edit to add: These are just my opinions. by the by. I very much understand there are sometimes great things that come from teaming up as rogues, and exceptions that lead to those circumstances.

[ohrather]

Totes agree with BNC, though an argument can be made for rogues banding together.  Even if the wastes seem empty, they are not.  There is strength in numbers, and a single person going it alone is likely to be killed for their boots.  Even a mindbending half-vestric sorcerer needs to sleep once in a while, and it's helpful to have a loyal minion or two watching your back.

Rogue gickers who befriend everyone they meet generally learn not to trust easily, or they die quick.  Most rogue gicker groups have been pretty good about mistrusting outsiders.

[Maso]

If I was a rogue gicker IRL, with all the same social implications as in Arm etc....I'd want some buddies. Just like criminals band together in gangs and stuff. Makes sense to me.

[janeshephard]

If I was a rogue gicker IRL, with all the same social implications as in Arm etc....I'd want some buddies. Just like criminals band together in gangs and stuff. Makes sense to me.

Yep.

[BuNutzCola]

Except you're not a just a criminal by RL standards. You're a horrendous child-molester that hasn't been brought to justice yet.

[Jengal]

Yeah, I don't see how you can casually hint that you're a magicker since it'll probably lead to you getting killed very quickly in pretty much every area of the world.

[BuNutzCola]

Somewhere in the Red Desert....

The figure in a grey cloak stands here, crouched on a dune.

The figure in a sandcloth duster as arrived from the east.


Inching over, the figure in a grey cloak says, in sirihish:

"'ey mate, you -family?"

[BleakOne]

I'd tend to agree that it would be more likely two magickers would find each other to be abominations (particularly if not of the same element) or dangers more than friends. Nonetheless, they may band together, but it would be fairly uncommon, I'd say.

I could see a powerful defiler taking on 'lesser' magickers as minions, though.

[Vwest]

Yeah, I don't see how you can casually hint that you're a magicker since it'll probably lead to you getting killed very quickly in pretty much every area of the world.

Your jaw would hit the floor if you traveled with my last character.

What passes for 'probably wouldn't happen' on the GDB is a far cry from how things happen in-game.

[Lizzie]

I'd tend to agree that it would be more likely two magickers would find each other to be abominations (particularly if not of the same element) or dangers more than friends. Nonetheless, they may band together, but it would be fairly uncommon, I'd say.

I could see a powerful defiler taking on 'lesser' magickers as minions, though.

And then those lesser magickers become co-conspirators. Maybe not pals, or family - but definitely members of the same general unofficial unsanctioned loosely-knit organization.

[Wug]

Magickers and normal people shouldn't be friendly. They shouldn't really even associate with each other except when they have to. If you're a commoner in Allanak and you have rogue magicker friends, your life is forfeit. You would feel like a monster and know that the templarate publicly murders "people" like you. If you have gemmer friends, you're going to be scrutinized too. There is a division between commoners and the gemmed. At the least you will be ostracized. Templars can and have tortured or executed people for breaking these social norms. At worst, you'll be experimented on or cursed by your magickal "friends".

From help magick

Magick is a mysterious and very rare power on Zalanthas, about which the
general public knows very little, and generally fears and hates a great
deal. While magickers are tolerated in some places, they are generally
feared and distrusted by the vast majority of the population of Zalanthas.
In many places, magickers are killed upon discovery, and even the rumor
that one is a magicker can lead to one's death.

Overall, the game world is very good about playing out this magickal mistrust. With a recent influx of new players we need to make sure that social norms stay normal and that exceptions remain rare and realistically shunned.

Magickers are very often isolated roles. Even the gemmed. That's a large part of the reason they require karma. A magicker player must be patient and dedicated enough to sometimes forgo interaction in favor of realism.

[Feco]

The way magickers interact, rogue or not, is far more complicated than can be, or has been, said on the GDB.  Just thought I'd throw that out there.

There are coded and "lore" aspects to this.  If you think someone/a group of someone's is being unrealistic, file a player complaint.

[FantasyWriter]

Except you're not a just a criminal by RL standards. You're a horrendous child-molester that hasn't been brought to justice yet.

Even child molesting pedophiles and pornographers band together IRL, dude.

[Wug]

Let's stop using that metaphor.

[janeshephard]

If I was a rogue gicker IRL, with all the same social implications as in Arm etc....I'd want some buddies. Just like criminals band together in gangs and stuff. Makes sense to me.

Yep.

I should qualify this. While the rogue magickers I played in the past were -all- isolated, they did interact with other rogues from time to time. There are relationships with other magickers and criminals. There's far less direct interaction with commoners from the city states.

No idea what gemmed life is like these days. I can't say I ever liked gemmed life but I recall it wasn't all rosey between the gemmed. There was competition and rivalry.

[IssacF]

Magickers and normal people shouldn't be friendly. They shouldn't really even associate with each other except when they have to. If you're a commoner in Allanak and you have rogue magicker friends, your life is forfeit. You would feel like a monster and know that the templarate publicly murders "people" like you. If you have gemmer friends, you're going to be scrutinized too. There is a division between commoners and the gemmed. At the least you will be ostracized. Templars can and have tortured or executed people for breaking these social norms. At worst, you'll be experimented on or cursed by your magickal "friends".

From help magick

Magick is a mysterious and very rare power on Zalanthas, about which the
general public knows very little, and generally fears and hates a great
deal. While magickers are tolerated in some places, they are generally
feared and distrusted by the vast majority of the population of Zalanthas.
In many places, magickers are killed upon discovery, and even the rumor
that one is a magicker can lead to one's death.

Overall, the game world is very good about playing out this magickal mistrust. With a recent influx of new players we need to make sure that social norms stay normal and that exceptions remain rare and realistically shunned.

Magickers are very often isolated roles. Even the gemmed. That's a large part of the reason they require karma. A magicker player must be patient and dedicated enough to sometimes forgo interaction in favor of realism.

Sounds reasonable and my concept might certainly work then. So self loathing and depression on a magicker is common? What with the isolation, mistrust, being reviled, feared and hated... That's a recipe for some derangements...

[AmandaGreathouse]

Magickers and normal people shouldn't be friendly. They shouldn't really even associate with each other except when they have to. If you're a commoner in Allanak and you have rogue magicker friends, your life is forfeit. You would feel like a monster and know that the templarate publicly murders "people" like you. If you have gemmer friends, you're going to be scrutinized too. There is a division between commoners and the gemmed. At the least you will be ostracized. Templars can and have tortured or executed people for breaking these social norms. At worst, you'll be experimented on or cursed by your magickal "friends".

From help magick

Magick is a mysterious and very rare power on Zalanthas, about which the
general public knows very little, and generally fears and hates a great
deal. While magickers are tolerated in some places, they are generally
feared and distrusted by the vast majority of the population of Zalanthas.
In many places, magickers are killed upon discovery, and even the rumor
that one is a magicker can lead to one's death.

Overall, the game world is very good about playing out this magickal mistrust. With a recent influx of new players we need to make sure that social norms stay normal and that exceptions remain rare and realistically shunned.

Magickers are very often isolated roles. Even the gemmed. That's a large part of the reason they require karma. A magicker player must be patient and dedicated enough to sometimes forgo interaction in favor of realism.

Sounds reasonable and my concept might certainly work then. So self loathing and depression on a magicker is common? What with the isolation, mistrust, being reviled, feared and hated... That's a recipe for some derangements...

A magicker without derangements is like a human-looking breed that doesn't RP the mental handicap that is their flavor of weird psychosis.

[catchall]

A magicker without derangements is like a human-looking breed that doesn't RP the mental handicap that is their flavor of weird psychosis.

I don't think there's anything in the documentation to support this except for the "common sense" notion that "Oh, they're outcasts, therefore they must be CRRRAAZZY" (which is flimsy logic to say the least).  How individual magickers respond to their social environment will vary by individual and is not in any way analogous to inborn personality traits.

[ShaLeah]

A magicker without derangements is like a human-looking breed that doesn't RP the mental handicap that is their flavor of weird psychosis.

I don't think there's anything in the documentation to support this except for the "common sense" notion that "Oh, they're outcasts, therefore they must be CRRRAAZZY" (which is flimsy logic to say the least).  How individual magickers respond to their social environment will vary by individual and is not in any way analogous to inborn personality traits.

This.

The environment isn't the only thing that affects the human psyche.

[BleakOne]

With the exception of tribals who have a belief that their powers are in some way acceptable (like, for example, a blessing from the spirits or whatever), many magickers would have some pretty serious problems from being 'tainted'. Some believe themselves superior to 'mundane' folk, others hate themselves for suddenly becoming what they have always loathed, some try to hold it away and ignore it (with some possible fun for being 'overwhelmed' by magickal build up) and others desperately search for meaning in their new 'form'.

I don't know what all the Gem dislike is about, since I had a blast with my gemmed character. Even the meekest, most honest 'gicker can still get some fun RP out of the normies, with a little creativity. Being Gemmed is also very helpful to learn various difficult concepts with the way the magick system works, since you are more likely to find other people willing to teach you.

Personally I can't see myself enjoying a rogue 'gicker, since I'd be paranoid of being discovered by someone who didn't only want to shackle my power to turn to their own horrible will (i.e. His Templarate). Zorching PCs in the wild doesn't sound too fun either.

On the other hand, most of the Gemmed PCs and Rogue 'gicker PCs I've seen over my time have been quite well played. You'd be surprised how many things you can survive in Arm if you respond to someone scary by screaming like a child and falling on your ass.

[janeshephard]

I don't know what all the Gem dislike is about, since I had a blast with my gemmed character. Even the meekest, most honest 'gicker can still get some fun RP out of the normies, with a little creativity. Being Gemmed is also very helpful to learn various difficult concepts with the way the magick system works, since you are more likely to find other people willing to teach you.

We had very different experiences as gemmed. As gemmed I was treated like shit by everyone including other gemmed who didn't want to see me succeed in anyway. I guess it depends on the current gemmed eco-system on what your experience will be. If they all want to be happy x-men in arms or if they want to play the murder & betrayal angle more.

Personally I can't see myself enjoying a rogue 'gicker, since I'd be paranoid of being discovered by someone who didn't only want to shackle my power to turn to their own horrible will (i.e. His Templarate). Zorching PCs in the wild doesn't sound too fun either.

There are some profoundly interesting rogue magickers out there with interesting plots. At least that's what I found the two times I managed in having a functioning rogue 'gicker.

I don't think "zorching PCs in the wild" is what's typical of a rogue magicker -- although there are some exceptions where its played that way.

[BleakOne]

Hehehe, hearing 'happy x-men in arms' makes me chuckle.

But yeah, you're unlikely to find every other Gemmer friendly as a Gemmer, all you need is one or two to make it awesome though. I'm sorry you didn't get that from being Gemmed, but it's good you found a way to rock a rogue 'gicker instead.

[AmandaGreathouse]

A magicker without derangements is like a human-looking breed that doesn't RP the mental handicap that is their flavor of weird psychosis.

I don't think there's anything in the documentation to support this except for the "common sense" notion that "Oh, they're outcasts, therefore they must be CRRRAAZZY" (which is flimsy logic to say the least).  How individual magickers respond to their social environment will vary by individual and is not in any way analogous to inborn personality traits.

Nah, not so much that as... really, after you have a magicker get powerful...some of the stuff they can do... you'd have to be crazy -not- to at least feel some fundamental disconnect with the normal people around you. And probably both offput and relieved that others are like you. At least to my mind. If nothing else, you'd think that the constant emotional abuse would lead to a level of agoraphobia.

[IssacF]

With the exception of tribals who have a belief that their powers are in some way acceptable (like, for example, a blessing from the spirits or whatever), many magickers would have some pretty serious problems from being 'tainted'. Some believe themselves superior to 'mundane' folk, others hate themselves for suddenly becoming what they have always loathed, some try to hold it away and ignore it (with some possible fun for being 'overwhelmed' by magickal build up) and others desperately search for meaning in their new 'form'.

I don't know what all the Gem dislike is about, since I had a blast with my gemmed character. Even the meekest, most honest 'gicker can still get some fun RP out of the normies, with a little creativity. Being Gemmed is also very helpful to learn various difficult concepts with the way the magick system works, since you are more likely to find other people willing to teach you.

Personally I can't see myself enjoying a rogue 'gicker, since I'd be paranoid of being discovered by someone who didn't only want to shackle my power to turn to their own horrible will (i.e. His Templarate). Zorching PCs in the wild doesn't sound too fun either.

On the other hand, most of the Gemmed PCs and Rogue 'gicker PCs I've seen over my time have been quite well played. You'd be surprised how many things you can survive in Arm if you respond to someone scary by screaming like a child and falling on your ass.

That is possibly a solid description of how my concept goes. Self loathing, wishing to ignore it and desperate to find a meaning in his f***** life.

[Wug]

Unfortunately, conversations here tipped over that thin IC dividing line into speculation we would rather not see on the boards. Magick is an area of low tolerance on the GDB. If you're going to post about it then you have a responsibility to keep the information and speculation very, very general. If you have any specific commentary, take it to the request tool.

Some of you are jaded veterans who have seen some shit. You have a responsibility to keep any hint of that shit off of the boards.

Thanks.