How long does it take to go from novice to apprentice and so on?

[Sockpuppeteer]

Title says it all. Let's say in spear making for example. As of now I've made over 10 spears out of almost 30 or so attempts (rough guess) and havent noticed any differences. What's the deal?

[Barsook]

It depends on your PC wisdom stat of how fast they can learn.

[Sockpuppeteer]

It depends on your PC wisdom stat of how fast they can learn.

below average for an elf

[Barsook]

Take your PC's stat as a challenge and roleplay it.  Arm focuses on roleplaying not twinking your skills 24/7.

[Sockpuppeteer]

Take your PC's stat as a challenge and roleplay it.  Arm focuses on roleplaying not twinking your skills 24/7.

Yeah... But it'll be a turn off of I have to make 100 spears just to advance just to apprentice... I've been roleplaying being taught spearmaking for almost a game week and I haven't gone up a level and I have used up huge amounts of supplies... even the guy, im training with is getting fed up. I feel like I'm not getting anything out of training

[Zoltan]

Also, no one will be able to give you a straight answer on exactly how many times you have to perform an action to skill up, as it's against the rules and I'd be suspect of any number anyone would provide anyway.

A couple things to consider. Gaining skill in anything in Armageddon is going to take forever. That doesn't mean your character shouldn't pursue gaining skill as it's own reward, but as a player, you need to know that it's going to be a while. Days played, even. Another thing to consider is that spamming an action in order to try and skill up is heavily frowned upon and not useful, anyway, due to a purposefully-vaguely-defined "cooldown" period for progressing on some (or all?) skills. I've found that a realistic schedule for a character goes a long way, such as doing whatever skill it is for most of the day (particularly if it's your job) and then scheduling in some "off" time for being a person instead of a pants sweatshop or whatever.

Finally, the skill tier names themselves cover large swaths of actual skill level. You're almost certainly improving, you just can't see it due to the coarseness of the skills command output. Skills are on a continuum, they aren't set levels. You shouldn't describe anything going on ICly on the gdb, either. Actually, that's a rule, please don't do it as it reveals IC info and probably who you're playing.

tl;dr It's going to take a long time, but the mad skillz will develop. Also don't spam commands.

[LauraMars]

When you're learning, it doesn't make sense that to cut a huge swath of destruction through your available supplies as you break one spear after the other in quick succession.

Generally, when we're learning a new skill, it goes very slowly, and when we screw up, it's more useful to take a bit of time to think about where we went wrong than it is to immediately dive into the project again.

In other words - If you're spam crafting, don't.  Fail a couple of times, and leave it at that.  Try again a bit later.  There won't be as much wastage this way and your character will still learn.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

Generally, a skill gets a bump when you fail. This doesn't apply to combat, where you usually need to fail many times. As previously stated, there are mechanisms in place to prevent twinking your way up.

A good rule of thumb for non combative skills is to fail once an IC day. This both allows for realistic RP, since nobody is going to make ninety spears a day, and allows for the mechanisms in the game itself to be satisfied. Remember, balance skill grinding with RP. This game's greatest strength is it's social aspect. That's where the stories come from.

[Sockpuppeteer]

Well I know spamming is frowned upon, but at least im making am effort to roleplay it out. Either way, I feel I'm wasting my time. I'll report back when/if I do level up, just as a reference for other people in case they're curious as to how long skills take to learn... I don't think absolutely everything should have to be learned ingame... as a noob its nice to have a few outside references to these things. Personally, I find the long learning times a turn off, especially as my characters have a relatively short life span... I'd rather not invest 5 hours a day for a week to advance one skill to journeyman... in a world such as zalanthas being as hostile as it is, surely people would have to learn things relatively quickly I'm what little time they have...
edit, I've failed 51 times and I've 12 spears completed successfully. Haven't gone up a level yet

[Lizzie]

As other people have specified (I'm thinking you might be not understanding how important this is)...

there is a mechanism that does not LET you advance after trying/failing for a period of time. I don't think it works like what I'm about to describe, I'm making up a hypothetical, I have no clue as to how it actually works. So here is the hypothetical, to give you some general idea of what we are trying to tell you:

Your race + your wisdom + your main guild + the skill-max + your current skill level = all components to part 1.

How many times it take you to try, before you fail once = part 2.

Part 1 * Part 2/47 + the square root of the circumference of the Black Moon in its current position in the sky = the timer.

So - this means, that you can try to craft spears for up to 53 minutes. If you fail during that 53 minute period, the timer will reset, and you will have to wait 30 minutes until you can try to fail again. If you don't fail turing that 53 minute period, then the very next time you fail, will reset the timer. Once that timer is reset, it won't matter whether you succeed or fail. The timer will not start again, until you have stopped trying to craft for at least 30 minutes. If you keep trying, the timer will continue to wait until you stop for 30 minutes.

Again - this is NOT how the system works. Or at least, I highly doubt it. I don't know how the system works. But again - there are mechanisms in place that prevent you from gaining skills by spam-crafting. You can spam craft til there's no wood left in the forest, and it won't make a bit of difference. If it isn't the right time for you to be crafting, you won't gain skill, period.

Also, failure doesn't equal a skill change. It represents a *percentage* of a skill change. And again - the code is not available, because they don't want this to turn into a hack-n-slash or min-max game. So for hypothetically - there's 100 points between "levels." And failure represents 1 point. So you'd have to fail 100 times before you will see a change - but ONLY if you follow the formula laid out in the hypothetical. If you don't follow the formula, you will never see an increase.

So - relax. Craft when it seems appropriate for your character to craft. Take breaks when it seems appropriate for your character to take breaks. Craft until you fail, then stop for awhile, and do something else for an hour (which is the equivalent of a game day).

This is what everyone is trying to tell you, but you seem to only care about "levelling up." This isn't a hack-n-slash game, and it isn't a levelling up game. It's a roleplaying game, which is why there are mechanics in place to prevent you from gaining a coded advantage by spam-crafting.

[Sockpuppeteer]

That's what exactly how I didn't want to appear - someone who only cares for levelling up Well now that I understand it a bit better I'll take my time in training. 2-3 spears a day. Thanks for that.

[Mook]

The secret to spear crafting is to parcitipate in an HRPT.  Seriously, if you live through that, making spears will seem like child's play. 

And if you die, as I undoubtedly will, you won't need any spears!

[LauraMars]

The secret to spear crafting is to parcitipate in an HRPT.  Seriously, if you live through that, making spears will seem like child's play. 

And if you die, as I undoubtedly will, you won't need any spears!

Listen to this person.  They speak wisdom.

[Lizzie]

That's what exactly how I didn't want to appear - someone who only cares for levelling up Well now that I understand it a bit better I'll take my time in training. 2-3 spears a day. Thanks for that.

Okay - now I can see you're really trying to understand..I still don't know how the mechanics work, but I do know how I often try to do it (not always - depends on the situation, and I should preface this by saying I don't believe I gain skills very fast at all, and in some cases, I worry I'm being over-cautious.

What I do if I have spearmaking -

I'll try a couple of different types of spears.  Maybe I'll try a purple-stone-headed one, and a knotty-wood shafted one. I'll alternate, until I fail at either of them. And then - I'll do just one more, of the one I failed at. And then I'm done for the game-day. Sometimes for the game-week. Or at least, I'll be done working with spears for the day. Maybe the next dawn, I'll try out arrowmaking, or knife-making, or foraging, or I'll go for a hunt with a clannie - that way I'm still using skills, still giving myself a chance to improve at *something* but not obsessing with one thing and letting everything else suffer.

So I switch it up, and don't really focus on one thing for too long, mostly because it *feels* like grinding, which is no fun at all.

[Sockpuppeteer]

one last question (I'm probably gonna hear learn IC) any half decent recipes for spears? Ones I'm making are long wooden ones from poles... I've got long lengths of bone, pieces of bone and slivers of bone but none of them can be used with my spears in crafting... so er... How do I find more recipes?

[Lizzie]

one last question (I'm probably gonna hear learn IC) any half decent recipes for spears? Ones I'm making are long wooden ones from poles... I've got long lengths of bone, pieces of bone and slivers of bone but none of them can be used with my spears in crafting... so er... How do I find more recipes?

Yeah that's definitely something you have to discover IC. Discovery is always IC, unless it's in a help file. However, I will tell you this - once you pass a certain proficiency, you will see more options when you try to craft things. Analyze is also your friend - if you have a spear laying around that you haven't tried to make yet, pick it up and analyze it. This can either give you a clue, or give you the recipe, depending on your level of proficiency with the spearmaking skill (and whether or not it's craftable by you at all - some things are only craftable by certain clans).

[Mook]

From 'help spear making'

Example(s):
> craft spearhead pole into long agate-headed spear

> craft shard into obsidian spearhead

> craft long stinger into jagged bone spear

> craft antler pole into carru-antler spear

> craft spearhead short into chitin-headed short spear

[Quell]

For learning recipes you might also want to read the help files for the analyze skill. This will give you a good way to learn how to make spears you see in game without having to find a teacher.

[hatchets]

Skills feel like they take FOREVER to skill up when you are working at doing it, and then, one day, you make that next spear, and blam it happens, and all the time and effort put into it makes it feel worth it.... till you try and train it up to the next level. Rinse Wash and Repeat. It always feels like it is taking forever until it is done.

[IssacF]

one last question (I'm probably gonna hear learn IC) any half decent recipes for spears? Ones I'm making are long wooden ones from poles... I've got long lengths of bone, pieces of bone and slivers of bone but none of them can be used with my spears in crafting... so er... How do I find more recipes?

The reason people give the:
Find IC

Is because it's not really so hard to find IC. The better you roleplay the easier it is as well. Find people who love to use spears (and I've seen a great deal) And try to strike a friendship. Admire their weapon. Tell them you are a crafter of spears attempting to improve more. They might not hand their weapons (I know I don't) But more then one of them is or knows the person who crafted it. Network. It's a lot like real life.

If you think you have it bad, try bandagemaking. That one is hard. And I personally know most of the things I can do from finding out IG. I either ask people who know more and ask for pointers. People IG love to display their knowledge.

[Maso]

Discovering cool recipes in game is one the high points of playing a crafter, when you get to be like...HELL YEAH. I JUST MADE THAT SHIT.

I'd recommend trying to find a mentor/teacher type figure IG. A character to show your character the ropes, so to speak. It's more fun than asking on the GDB, and they can't tell you to find out IC. This applies to most guilds, to be honest, but having a teacher crafter person is hugely beneficial to new player crafters.

[JackGibbons]

Also, don't sign off when you fail to make spears. Signing on, crafting, signing off, waiting RL time, signing on again, etc, is not going to help you with your skills. That's considered avoiding RP and is also protected against. Generally only time spent online counts towards your "can't gain another skill point" timer cool down.

[slipshod]

Because I have not seen it mentioned here yet, I'll remind you that it is possible for people to 'teach' skills.  The Original Poster mentioned that he/she had been RolePlaying being taught spearmaking.  If you can find another PC who knows how to make spears, and go through the RP of getting a lesson, then they are able to 'teach <newbie> spear_making' and give you a little boost that way, not to mention show you recipes IC.

[bricklayer]

It should be clear that using the "teach" command, while moderately effective, requires two things:
1). Extensive role-playing of how to do what they're doing better before even using the command, and
2). A MUCH higher skilll level than the one you're trying to teach.

Also, in my experience, it gives a very modest skill bump, if at all.

Aside: I'm sad we see a ranking for our skills.

[Morrolan]

Aside: I'm sad we see a ranking for our skills.

>brief skills