Tuluki social hierarchy: discuss!

[Taven]

The doc update is awesome.

I'm going to continue with the discussion...

Hey, if I was rich guy hiring help in Tuluk, I might consider the elf because they're a worthless necker, who will naturally respect my roundeared authoritah, whereas that roundeared option might try and one-up me and beat me out in the end.

No matter how much money I give that necker to help me, he'll never rise up in society, because he's a damn necker! Easy to handle, know what you're paying for. There's just the small matter of keeping his dirty necker hands off my personal belongings, which is why I hire Amos here to keep an eye on things.... now we're all good.

I don't think elves in Tuluk are a problem. Some people are very "nice" to them, but we all know what Tuluki "niceness" means...

As for the noobs, they'll eventually learn why elves stay low on the social ladder, *violently.* Their first Tuluki commoner or two might be really nice to elves, but before long they'll get it. It's all part of the Tuluki learning curve.

Emphasis mine.

You know for sure that a necker is going to try to rob, steal, and otherwise cheat you blind. Elves do not have respect for human authority. The only exception would be, perhaps, something like Chosen and Faithful, but that is independent of race, that is simply because they are where the city has power.

You hire an elf for your needs because you say that you can't trust the human and then hire "Amos" to guard your things. Is Amos a human? If he is, that completely undermines your entire argument.

Furthermore, by going to elves for all of your needs, you are giving them power. You're saying that you value their craft and artistry more then a human's, by virtue of hiring them. Is there a reason to hire an elf for something sometime? Sure, sometimes there is. Should you be picking elves over humans because you think humans are out to get you? My answer would be no.

[Taven]

IMO, it's about respecting and appreciating art and usefulness. It's not because they are elves. When it comes to art, all races have the same cultural opportunities to rise in rank whether it is as a thief, assassin, bard or artisan. It's important to keep in mind that just because you've codedly mastered a skill doesn't mean you're a master in the eyes of society.

I think you're wrong about the Akai Sjir being that influential and respected, but it'd be going into IC details to discuss it so I think we'll have to leave that for another time. Same with the part about influential PCs rising above human commoner PCs.

I'd say that due to their focus on art (primarily stoneworking) the Akai elves have a better chance at being appreciated and valued, but it won't be for their sharp ears - it'd be for the artwork. That's not to say it's impossible for an individual elf or the tribe in general to gain some measure of respect.

Akai Sjir artisans would also have a hard time competing with artisans from House Kadius and House Tenneshi - two organizations known to have the best artisans in Tuluk, and they are almost exclusively human.

It is less prevalent, currently, but as far as I know, historically it's been a big thing.

I am saying that because of their focus in stone, they are appreciated regardless of their sharpears.

If you look at public creations of art in Tuluk by PCs within the last 4 RL years, how many of those have been Tenneshi-made pieces, how many have been Kadius-made pieces, and how many have been Akai-made pieces? I think the answer to this shows a lot. The question itself says a lot, too.

[Norcal]

It is not only becasue of their stone work that the Akai have a bit higher social standing in Tuluk, than other elves do. There are some other important reasons that the more prominent members of Tuluki society would be aware of. If you don't already know the reasons and this really interests you, it is not too difficult to find out IC.

[Jeshin]

More importantly... Why haven't some of these posts been moderated? Staff?

[greasygemo]

Tuluk makes people 154% more angry than an average GDB topic. 

[musashi]

Does seem that way huh?

[RogueGunslinger]

Making me want to roll up my first Merchant in Tuluk.

[Kismetic]

To be fair, it's a conversation that includes both elves and Tuluk.  If we somehow worked bards into it, there's a true recipe for disaster.

[Molten Heart]

To be fair, it's a conversation that includes both elves and Tuluk.  If we somehow worked bards into it, there's a true recipe for disaster.

If we make the bards magickers, you know... like a performing rock band named Ruk, Whira and Suk-Krath (because that'd be both cool and outrageous, especially in Tuluk) this way we can really get this thread fired up before we send it kicking and screaming over the Shield Wall.

[Cutthroat]

I like the doc updates. I think they clarify a few things that were a bit murky in the early part of the thread.

[Malifaxis]

I like the doc updates. I think they clarify a few things that were a bit murky in the early part of the thread.

Upvote.

[Irulan]

I like the doc updates. I think they clarify a few things that were a bit murky in the early part of the thread.

Agreed. Tuluk has a learning curve to it. There is a lot to take in and it just depends on the player if 1) they enjoy the environment enough to put in the effort to get good at it and 2) how long it takes to figure some of it out. Wonderful to see some updated docs to take a little of the headache out.

Wading into the debate a bit about Tuluki elves and the Akai seems a little bit toxic at this point, but my take on it remains that the Akai are elves, they are -always- regarded with elf-colored glasses. But they can make some neat stuff, and that makes them useful to the society as a whole and they do garner some respect because of it....but they are still elves and they are likely trying to cheat/rob you blind. My -very- brief stint playing in the Akai Sjirr a few years ago made that very clear. They are always looking for an angle, a way to play you, extort you/get the drop on (human) you. And most humans still treated them like that was what they were trying to do. It is a neat aspect to Tuluki culture that elves can play out an existence that isn't quite as straightforward as other elven roles.

The other social castes in Tuluk are kinda similar. It depends on your contributions to the society which part of the ladder you will fall on, no matter which different category they fall into. Templars, Chosen, Artisans, Merchants: depending on what their individual accomplishments and contributions to the society will be, they will have more or less pull, it is a fluid thing. Certain things will add to your social upward pull, and things will count against it. Befriending elves/foreigners/being blunt/causing barfights will all have a negative impact on your social ladder while contributing witty sarcastic subtle snark/artistic contributions/a well done assassination/well done pickpocketing will all contribute to upward social mobility of the ladder.

I think sometimes people have trouble when the lines are blurred. Things in Tuluk tend to be a grey area. Wait...sometimes elves aren't the complete dirt on the bottom of my shoe? Well, they can be Artisans, so no, not completely if they are contributing things to the Society. Their individual accomplishments will merit them a bit of leeway as far as how far down or up they are compared to other people.

[musashi]

It seems like all of that could be said of the Jaxa Pah or the Sun Runners as well. I'm not sure where the part that makes the Akai special is, honestly.

[RogueGunslinger]

It seems like all of that could be said of the Jaxa Pah or the Sun Runners as well. I'm not sure where the part that makes the Akai special is, honestly.

In light of all this ATV love I went and read their clan-blurb.... I come away with it that they are... Desert Elf Hippies.

[Nyr]

More importantly... Why haven't some of these posts been moderated? Staff?

More importantly...why hasn't anyone actually reported the thread to staff via the request tool?

I moderated it and threw out the bans. Do not flame other players even if you are trying to be coy about it. If you didn't mean to, choose your words more carefully in the future. If someone flames you, report it. Do not respond. It just exacerbates the problem.

[RogueGunslinger]

More importantly... Why haven't some of these posts been moderated? Staff?

More importantly...why hasn't anyone actually reported the thread to staff via the request tool?

If the report function isn't directly linked to the forum post, people are generally just going to be to lazy to ever use it.

I always forget the request tool is even an option for this.

[Nyr]

Well. Laziness will just get people banned, I guess.

We do want to fix that but we need to move the board to do it. That particular function, she is broke!

[LauraMars]

Wait, so are you saying that the "report to moderator" link on the forum posts doesn't work?

[Riya OniSenshi]

Wait, so are you saying that the "report to moderator" link on the forum posts doesn't work?

Correct.

[LauraMars]

oh, I had no clue.  thanks

I seem to remember it working a few years ago.

[MeTekillot]

I remember kanks a few years ago 

[Delirium]

I don't miss kanks. Next up: beetle plague.