Exceptions and Norms

[Fujikoma]

Haha! I can't tell you what my character just did but even though it wasn't something I enjoyed seeing OOC I thought the concept was hillarious! Definitely trying to play a proper breed this time around!  

[Dakota]

What is amusing to me is, because so many people play the exception, or at least seem to, I get far more enjoyment from playing the norm.

When I play an elf, I work VERY hard to stick as close to the elf docs and tribe docs for that elf as is possible, and find it to be loads of fun.

The norms are actually pretty fun. Speaking of which.. I think it's whack a breed day...

[Barzalene]

I agree with XD about the docs. If you work inside the narrow framework of those docs, they provide a structure for your pcs. And then you can do anything you like within that box. But having that limit adds rather than detracts.

With regards to the freak out not freak out question, there comes a point where freaking out is sub-optimal. The best analogy I have for that is a grenade. I would seriously freak if someone brought one into my living room. However, if you're going into battle you might have to carry some scary gear. You don't have to enjoy it. You certainly don't take it to the bar with you after. While you're moving toward trouble though you rely on your scary tools and handle them with some measure of respect. Not affection though. Maybe not affection though.

[Fujikoma]

Having actually thrown a few live grenades, I will say they have earned not only my respect, but my affection. 

[Barzalene]

I stand corrected.

[Is Friday]

Magickers are not grenades. We understand grenades, know how to use them, and have them made so their results are predictable.

Grenades do not get angry or emotional. Grenades don't hold grudges. Grenades don't curse you or afflict you with illnesses.

Magickers do not function like grenades in a war fighting situation or otherwise.

Also, the structured training in our modern military is not even vaguely comparable to exposing someone to a sentient flamethrower that you are hoping doesn't know other, far more subverse or terrible things. Zalanthans, with a few exceptions, are ignorant of magick and its results.

[Barzalene]

True. Perhaps not the best analogy. I'm not sure if I was truly unclear and should rephrase or if you are just being pedantic.

[Is Friday]

True. Perhaps not the best analogy. I'm not sure if I was truly unclear and should rephrase or if you are just being pedantic.

I just want to make sure the new players understand the "fear of the unknown" that should exist in dealing with magickers.

[Barzalene]

Fair enough.
And it addresses the fear, which should be omnipresent. The other thing that should be clear is if a Templar brings along a gemmed gicker it's ok to have a freak out that doesn't hid up the event they've been hired for.
People shouldn't treat you as if your reaction is unfounded, but if they tell you to get it to hold it together - that's not necessarily beyond the pale.

[AreteX]

I probably find myself playing an exception often enough, but... I mean not really?  It's hard to explain but I will try.

I played a character that had an addiction of sorts and that would influence their decisions drastically.  This would apply in small measures towards their interaction with races, or gickers or whatever the case might have been. The reasoning behind this is the lack of control that addiction grants you and therefore, clouding your judgment.  This is an example of a character being an exception, but for good reason in my opinion.

I also don't often play overt racists because I just don't quite enjoy playing a mean character.  I have found that Armageddon can sometimes bleed over into RL moods(I'm sure we have all experienced this) and being hateful in a game is not really something I enjoy doing that often.  I try and throw one in there every so many characters, but the vast majority of my characters are not hatefully racist.  They are just bigoted like an appropriate "moderate" documentation follower.  I mean there are extremes on both ends.  Some people might not drink from the cup of a breed and make out with them, but they won't exactly spot one at a bar and immediately kick it's ass.

I think anyone who plays an exception probably feels like they are justified in some way by character interaction, development, background, or any of the other possibilities.  I think that is the important part.  I don't think many people are simply saying, "Screw it.  I think I feel like banging that gicker and seeing how fire feels in my butt!"  or "This breed is my best friend because I am foreveralone in a tavern and he is here!".  There are some justifications in the player and characters mind for these exceptions if they are made and that makes them character traits and part of the story.

[Twilight]

Magickers are grenades.  But they are ones whose pin has already been pulled.  You just don't know how long the timer is.  You know it will explode, just not when.  While you are still carrying it?  At just the right time?  Long after you needed it?

[Flincher]

I agree 100% with what Aretex said about moods bleeding over into RL. I strongly try to empathize with my character and when I'm playing I get pretty immersed and in tune with their thoughts and feelings. I probably couldn't play a breed for the fact the self-pity and general bad feelings would negatively affect my life for that reason. But also I am very anti-racist in RL so its hard to act that way in game. Generally I've tried to avoid situations where I have to come down as negative or hateful.

There was a point with my first character where I didn't have a clue about the lore of the world that I was just copy cating how other people hated on breeds, gickers and elves in the tavern. My current character would probably not share the same hate for these different people but would defiantly charge them extra for services. One because she can and two because she could always try to justify business with them if she is earning more.

[Fujikoma]

I've had plenty of experiences over the course of my life where in less than a span of a year some of my deeply held values and concepts have done a complete 180. I see no reason why, with the proper experiences, my player character cannot do the same... But the justification has to be there.

EDIT:

Thing is, I was raised a christian, but upon moving and going to a different church for a few months, and my experiences with the people there treating me like some kind of undesirable filth, sent me on a long and interesting journey away from all I'd been taught to know and to fear, into the unknown. But there's no real risk of death these days. Back in the day religion was a lot more difficult to walk away from. So... Still, there were people who did... Just not many.

Have I ever knowingly and willingly walked into a situation that could, or probably will, result in my death? Yes, yes I have. It's hard for me to play a character where the threat of death is so obvious and inevitable, and not take some risks.

[Patuk]

I've had plenty of experiences over the course of my life where in less than a span of a year some of my deeply held values and concepts have done a complete 180. I see no reason why, with the proper experiences, my player character cannot do the same... But the justification has to be there.

They can't, because it'll end up in them having to choose between either always putting on a mask and never telling any of their friends and family about it ever, or in them being an outcast from society and disliked and distrusted to an equal fashion that other social groups are.

But, sure. Change your entire mindset that you have been ingrained to believe in since the day you were born and which the entire society you have ever lived in and always will supports and does it best to support and will uphold for the next thousand years on the pain of extreme ostracisation.

Go ahead.

[RogueGunslinger]

I've had plenty of experiences over the course of my life where in less than a span of a year some of my deeply held values and concepts have done a complete 180. I see no reason why, with the proper experiences, my player character cannot do the same... But the justification has to be there.

You live in a world that fosters and encourages growth and progress. Zalanthas wants things to stay the same. You, under the boot-heel of society. Change is met not with open arms, but with violent and often deadly consequences.

[benegesseritwitch]

I don't see a problem with easing into "the norm" as a new player. Your first few characters usually don't last that long anyway. It took me a few characters before I was ready to fully embrace the prejudices and "grit" of the world.

[James de Monet]

Magickers are not grenades. We understand grenades, know how to use them, and have them made so their results are predictable.

I don't know, Friday. I see some parallels with grenades, especially for someone that has never thrown one. Sure, soldiers know they're fine as long as the clip, pin, and spoon are in place, but Barz probably doesn't. She just said she'd freak out if someone brought one in her living room. There are some characters who have training or experience around gickers. They're like the soldiers in the grenade analogy. People without, just see a baseball sized lump of potential death (cf a human-sized lump of potential death).  They don't know when that grenade (or gicker) will go off. They don't know how to arm or disarm it. They just know it can kill them, without anyone's help, without the aid of any other equipment, and they want to be far away from it.  Granted, grenades don't make decisions for themselves, but I don't feel that renders the whole comparison worthless.

I think something people are forgetting is that doctrinally, characters are afraid of gickers (at least to some extent) because of what happened in the past (ie the destruction of Old Tuluk by cataclysm, or of the known under the dragon), not because they necessarily have any personal bad experience with gickers.  I think this is also why the hate/fear question might not be as slanted as some are suggesting. Mundanes don't know for certain that Joe Gicker can or will do bad things to them. They've been told it, they suspect it, but most have probably never seen it or heard of it first hand.  They all know that they hate the idea of some freak having untold power and dabbling in the shit that ruined the world, though. In that light, I'm not sure I would expect to see more fear than hate. That's not saying you shouldn't still have both, though.  Just don't expect people to treat you with fear-respect when they're somewhere they know they are at least nominally protected by the law from your dangerous whim. They might cringe if you lift a hand threateningly or run if you start glowing, but up till then, they'll probably give you dirty looks and mumbled insults like any other undesirable.

[James de Monet]

Tldr; grenade analogy maybe not so off, hate/feat ratio maybe not so off

[Maso]

You don't know what's going on in those people's heads. They could be squirming inside, seething, freaking out so bad they can't even move...they might even have wet themselves in fear...but they're trying to act cool so the 'gicker doesn't blast them...or pay attention...or whatever. Just because they look calm to you...doesn't mean they are.

This is fine, but if they're so convincing on the outside that it looks like they don't care ... well then ... people are gonna treat them like they honestly didn't care and are in fact, a filthy gicker lover  

So, be ready for that. The only PC's who can wink wink nudge nudge your terribly horrified thinks and feels under your perfectly composed at ease and cool with it demeanor ... well ... yeah ...

Oh yeah. I am all down for IC consequences. Just saying...don't judge players on an OOC level when really you don't have a clue about what's going on their characters heads, backgrounds etc. More in response to RGS's inclination to report every character he doesn't see responding the way he would like them to.

[Is Friday]

Tldr; grenade analogy maybe not so off, hate/feat ratio maybe not so off

A grenade is capable of doing one thing and only one thing if the requirements are met to engage it. It does the same thing every time unless it's a dud.

Magickers not so much.

Players' or characters' perception of magickers should probably not view magickers as linear if they are keeping in line with docs, is my point.

[greasygemo]

I treat gickers like a caveman would treat a taser. Avoiding it with horrified and angry uncertainty that increases everytime someone I know gets electrocuted somehow.

[LauraMars]

A magicker may view her powers the way IsFriday views grenades - totally predictable, consistent results.  You're all overreacting!  It only works when I pull out the pin!
A non-magicker may view mage powers the way Barzalene views grenades - scary, unpredictable, bad things are gonna happen if they're in her living room, OH GOD, I don't wanna die.

To sum up, we can use grenades in a lot of metaphors, and people will have different interpretations of these metaphors based on their real world understanding of grenades.

[Barzalene]

I want to point out that the analogy was meant less to describe magickers generally and more to address situations when one is forced or interact with them in a structured situation.

[Marauder Moe]

As usual, context is key.

Stereotypes and stereotypical reactions can be taken too far.

If Militia Recruit Amos wets himself first time he sees a magicker in action, that's fair (but also fair to give him shit about it later).

Corporal Amos, however, is more likely to be a battle-hardened badass who has seen a lot of shit and probably should keep his composure.

That said, very very very few, if any, soldiers should be eagerly lining up for buffs and healz.

[Morrolan]

That said, very very very few, if any, soldiers should be eagerly lining up for buffs and healz.

Yeah, the buff thing is an artifact of other games. It requires a knowledge of magick that most commoners will not have. Some nobles might have it. The Templarate might have it, or learn it. Magickers might have it. Commoners will often think it's just darned sketchy/frightening/dangerous/.

But Lieutenant McBadass, veteran of the crap that happens, might have a few things figured out.