Furthering commerce and trade on Zalanthas

[Incognito]

Here's something we might consider, in view of the exponential increase in in-game craftables as well as the increase in playerbase vis-a-vis the lack of coin with some shopkeepers (from time to time).

Perhaps the city-states could set up auction houses, which would allow PCs to come and sell their items to the highest bidder.
This would solve a few problems:
a) Having a restriction of selling only x number of a particular item to a shop.
b) Having a restriction of selling that item type only to one or two shops (because the other shops don't buy that item type).
c) Having a restriction on the amount of sids the shopkeeper has to begin with for purchases.

Additionally, this would also facilitate:
1) Being able to reach a larger audience who could buy/sell items under one roof.
2) Less likelyhood of hoarding of items.
3) A general ease in overall trade and commerce.

For example:
You enter the spanking new Nenyuki auction house.
To the north is the weapons auctioneer.
To the south is the armor auctioneer.
To the east is the clothing auctioneer.
To the west is the miscellaneous item auctioneer.
Up from here is the raw material auctioneer.
(You get the drift)

The way it'd work is, anyone wishing to sell an item could go to the relevant auctioneer and auction off their item using the command:
auction <item> <minbid> <maxbid>
minbid would be the minimum amount a buyer would have to bid, to get the item.
maxbid would be the maximum amount a buyer would have to bid, to outright purchase the item on the spot.

As a buyer, I could auction my obsidian longsword at a minbid of 50 coins and a maxbid of lets say 140 coins.

The auctioneer would then take the item from my inventory and tell me "Alright, I'll try and sell this item for you, mind you, I'll keep 10 percent of whatever price I end up selling it at as my commission. If the item isn't sold in a month, you can come and recollect it, or starting next month, it'll be scrapped."

As a seller, if I went up to that same auctioneer and typed LIST, I'd see something like:
[1] an obsidian longsword for a minimum bid of 50 coins and for outright purchase at 140 coins.

I could bid 140 and get the item right then, or, I could bid lets say 50 coins, in which case the auctioneer would tell me "Alright, I'm noting your bid for 50 coins, come back tomorrow morning and if there's no higher bids, its yours."

When I return the next morning, if there have been no other bids on the same item I could just type "collect" and the auctioneer would give me the longsword for 50 coins.

If someone else (except the seller) bids on the same item at a higher price, obviously my bid will be negated, and the autioneer would list the item as:
[1] an obsidian longsword for a minimum bid of 50 coins and for outright purchase at 140 coins, currently bidding at 65 coins.

If I did not return within the stipulated time (next day) the auctioneer would put the item back on the auction block and cancel my bid.

At the end of the sale, when the seller returns to the auctioneer, and types "collect" the auctioneer would give him whatever price the item ended up being sold at, minus the 10% commission.

Last but not the least, if no one bid on the item, and, if the seller did not return within a month (or whatever time limit is deemed fit) to recollect his item, the item would disappear from the auctioneer's list and be junked, without any refund to the seller (risk of doing business with Nenyuk!).

Also, the underlying regulator in this idea is that if someone tries to sell an item for more than what it'd sell for in a shop, no one would buy it in the first place.....

I know it sounds complicated, but its simple enough - once it sinks in.

Edited to add:
So if a seller sees 3 obsidian longswords being auctioned at a maxbid of 140 coins, he'd be wise to auction his own at lets say 135 coins! End result - cheaper goods for the masses and the brutal business of undercutting prices goes on in the harsh world of Zalanthas!

[Barsook]

I dig this idea.

[Riev]

I dig. I'm sure the GMHs would keep an eye on anything moving through the Auction Houses that is dangerously close to their own crafts.

Although, that said, I also hate the idea of an Auction House unless its a Real Money Auction House. I'll give you five bucks if I can have some Saurokore armor.

[Nyr]

We do want there to be room for independent crafters, merchants, and independent organizations.  With that said, that should not be at detriment to existing clans.  We will be reviewing situations with independents, but probably not in this direction.  If anything, there are a handful of indie crafters/merchants that make too much money without the social and political cajones (and RP) to back that up.

[Riev]

So, can I have my five bucks back, Nyr?

[Erythil]

I've always thought auction houses are a great idea, but oddly enough, in other games where they've been coded, nobody ever took use of them.

It may be that you just need an enormously larger player population to get something like an MMO auction house to work.

[Morrolan]

If anything, there are a handful of indie crafters/merchants that make too much money without the social and political cajones (and RP) to back that up.

The good news is that a solution is also readily available in the helpfiles.

Assassins are often the simplest people to employ, for various warring factions usually have a desire to see their enemies slain quietly and simply, with minimal risk to themselves. For this reason, skilled assassins are almost never without work.

[Flincher]

In grungetown on Atonement RPI the coded auction house was used quite frequently.

[Erythil]

In grungetown on Atonement RPI the coded auction house was used quite frequently.

I only played that game from Mars onward, so I suppose I don't know much about how its economy worked when it actually had an economy.

[Fredd]

I see auctions IG from time to time. i would like to see more though.

[Jenred]

The problem with PC to PC commerce is actually a larger issue to do with item durability, etc etc.
All of the suggestions in this area were generally reviled.

As it is now, after a certain point alot of players "gear out" as it were, and don't need to buy things like a cheap obsidian sword, or a pair of tandu leather gloves. They already have their amazing weapons and armor they saved up for - when in reality (or better, "more realistically") there would be a great demand for everyday goods, like undergarments, torches and lanterns (seems like more torches should be crafteable), boot soles (or least boot repairers), and a great deal many more plain and mundane items (in addition to more services for armor and weapon repair).

More bags should be crafteable.

Tools should wear out, especially considering the materials of some and what they are being used for.

I think simplier solutions like this would trump a large scale overhaul, at least in the mean time until we get 100+ players around nightly

[Kismetic]

+1 to Jenred's post.

[Fredd]

+1 to Jenred's post.

Most definately in regards to tools wearing out

[Rumor]

The problem with PC to PC commerce is actually a larger issue to do with item durability, etc etc.
All of the suggestions in this area were generally reviled.

As it is now, after a certain point alot of players "gear out" as it were, and don't need to buy things like a cheap obsidian sword, or a pair of tandu leather gloves. They already have their amazing weapons and armor they saved up for - when in reality (or better, "more realistically") there would be a great demand for everyday goods, like undergarments, torches and lanterns (seems like more torches should be crafteable), boot soles (or least boot repairers), and a great deal many more plain and mundane items (in addition to more services for armor and weapon repair).

More bags should be crafteable.

Tools should wear out, especially considering the materials of some and what they are being used for.

I think simplier solutions like this would trump a large scale overhaul, at least in the mean time until we get 100+ players around nightly

I really like the idea of needing to replace equipment or in the least repair it through PC's.  On top of the obvious boost to sales and trade, it ups interaction among the playerbase.  It may also create a secondary market for cloth items as people who aren't planning on hunting or fighting may wear a "city" outfit.

[Patuk]

I really like the idea of needing to replace equipment or in the least repair it through PC's.  On top of the obvious boost to sales and trade, it ups interaction among the playerbase.  It may also create a secondary market for cloth items as people who aren't planning on hunting or fighting may wear a "city" outfit.

Buying it is one thing, but.. I really do think the armor repair skill need some looking at if you want pcs to be the source of that.

[Harmless]

How about a bulk "junk buyer" NPC?

The bulk junk buyer would pay based on weight of item and its material, and would offer a price for a whole bag of junk and require there be at least five items in it, as the usual.

If the game could do a calculation for the "junk price" of every item without it needing to be pre-coded, then this could be a good source of revenue for crap scavengers who are so desperate they'd be willing to take something like 1 coin per stone weight for rocks, 2 coins per stone weight of raw hides, 3 coins per stone weight of cured leather/shell/chitin, etc etc..

[Desertman]

We do want there to be room for independent crafters, merchants, and independent organizations.  With that said, that should not be at detriment to existing clans.  We will be reviewing situations with independents, but probably not in this direction.  If anything, there are a handful of indie crafters/merchants that make too much money without the social and political cajones (and RP) to back that up.

If they had to keep their wealth on them in some tangible obtainable way, this problem would solve its self.

Right now you can put your vast amount of single-handedly earned wealth into a virtual "vault" where it can't be touched by anyone who would want to do you harm/take that wealth from you. Nenyuk is so kind and generous they will even guard it for you without fail for free.

If you had to keep a "bank voucher" or something like that on you, the same way you do for mount tickets, I can see a lot of merchants who are vastly wealthy suddenly hiring guards, and thus depleting some of that wealth realistically, or suddenly dissapearing.

When there is no actual risk to losing your wealth, and no potential gain to eliminating the wealthy, they tend to stick around for a while.

[Harmless]

I like the idea of merchants having more to fear, but having to hold on to a ticket at all times feels kind of lame.  It's like a bag of jew gold a la Cartman from Southpark -- not kewl.

Nenyuki tellers should be smart enough to know who you are without you needing to provide a ticket; when the ragamuffin rinthi suddenly shows with a ticket and withdraws ten thousand chips I would feel the immersion dissolving all around me when the teller hands the money over.

Bank robberies? Edit: maybe not an awesome idea. How about we just add more bank fees?

Also, has anybody actually tried to mug a merchant lately? I swear all the merchants I know carry a few diamonds and shit on their person (for protection), so it's not like a crook couldn't make good mugging robbing one currently?

[Desertman]

I like the idea of merchants having more to fear, but having to hold on to a ticket at all times feels kind of lame.  It's like a bag of jew gold a la Cartman from Southpark -- not kewl.

Nenyuki tellers should be smart enough to know who you are without you needing to provide a ticket; when the ragamuffin rinthi suddenly shows with a ticket and withdraws ten thousand chips I would feel the immersion dissolving all around me when the teller hands the money over.

Bank robberies, on the other hand, would be awesome.

I'm not sure that Nenyuki tellers should be smart enough to recognize every single person in the Known that puts sid in the bank on sight without any further identifying information. I could be wrong...

I'm open to other ideas.

[Kismetic]

Nenyuk is so kind and generous they will even guard it for you without fail for free.

I'm pretty sure they do this because a great number of their clients die with money in the bank.  Nenyuk has to be the richest clan in all of Zalanthas.

[Harmless]

Another way to approach this is think less of disempowering rich merchants, empowering not-so rich merchants, etc, and more of "how do we make more sids available to the poor and stupid?"

Something I've always hated is how little the spice demand is in Allanak. In my mind, it's unrealistic how little spice is illegally sold in 'Nak. Now, I understand people not wanting to get addicted to spice for IC reasons, or simply for the OOC reason of not wanting to deal with the hassle of plots with the Arm of the Dragon... but every little NPC trolling around the street has absolutely no interest in spice, either? Doubt it.

If there was a way to sell spice "southside" for rinthers, that could really be a boon for the aspiring crook, add a whole new scale of profiteering to smuggling, create new plots, maybe becoming a fun new "minigame."

Edit: Well, in general I feel like spice could be "fixed" in some way to add to the economy, but I'm not sure exactly what that is.

[LauraMars]

I like the idea of merchants having more to fear, but having to hold on to a ticket at all times feels kind of lame.  It's like a bag of jew gold a la Cartman from Southpark -- not kewl.

Nenyuki tellers should be smart enough to know who you are without you needing to provide a ticket; when the ragamuffin rinthi suddenly shows with a ticket and withdraws ten thousand chips I would feel the immersion dissolving all around me when the teller hands the money over.

Bank robberies, on the other hand, would be awesome.

I'm not sure that Nenyuki tellers should be smart enough to recognize every single person in the Known that puts sid in the bank on sight without any further identifying information. I could be wrong...

I'm open to other ideas.

The way the bank of Nenyuk is handled has always struck me as a more OOC concept than an IC reality.  

OOCly: The players need a place to put money so they can spend less time hoarding/managing/safeguarding their pile of coins and more time playing the game.  The idea of going through administrative processes of identification, account purchase and set up, etc, is boring, and too much like real life paperwork to be interesting to most players.  I know the idea of being forced to maintain a bank account in Armageddon is uninteresting, to me at least.

ICly: Nenyuki clerks probably have a much more rigorous identity/paperwork system in place takes place virtually.  Also, their banks are not Scrooge Mcduck's money vault - If Malik Kadius dies to a gith on an unfortunate caravan RPT, Nenyuk will not simply absorb Malik's 30,000 coins and refuse to give them back to Kadius, even though this is what we see happen as players.  Much like real banks, a lot of the money is most likely imaginary.  We simply don't see any of this, because Nenyuk's bank script is an OOC convenience to players.

Anyway, if I want to play a suspicious Red Stormer who doesn't believe in corporations and stuffs their mattress with obsidian coins, I can - but please don't make me play this role.

[Kismetic]

Also, their banks are not Scrooge Mcduck's money vault - If Malik Kadius dies to a gith on an unfortunate caravan RPT, Nenyuk will not simply absorb Malik's 30,000 coins and refuse to give them back to Kadius, even though this is what we see happen as players.

Kadians, and other VIPs, likely have their coins defaulted to the proper accounts (at a fee), but you better believe Joe Nobody's wealth probably won't transfer to their random bastard heir.

Anyway, if I want to play a suspicious Red Stormer who doesn't believe in corporations and stuffs their mattress with obsidian coins, I can - but please don't make me play this role.

I thought that was the only way you can play in Red Storm ... 

[Maso]

Edit: Well, in general I feel like spice could be "fixed" in some way to add to the economy, but I'm not sure exactly what that is.

Have NPC in the 'rinth that buys and sells spice, and also runs out of it...when it's out. I don't think this could be a transaction that could realistically take place 'southside', even if it was intended for sale in the 'rinth. Having it in the alleys seems right, a bolshy smuggler should have to walk into the ghetto to unload his spice.

Like Leo in Blood Diamond. <3

[Barsook]

+1 to Jenred's post.

Most definately in regards to tools wearing out

+1

And the junk buyers too.  +1