Getting Murdered

[My 2 sids]

Murder. Corruption. Betrayal. 

This is true, and yet it is up to interpretation when it comes to explaining its role in the game.  There are only a handful of people who dictate the rules and over-all play of this game - we've been told flat out, "when we want your opinion we'll give it to you."  So, it's all about how they interpreted the game they inherited.  This is an OOC issue.

Murder:  currently, Arm is coded to focus on PC-on-PC killing.  It is the easiest to do via code, it is the easiest to set up and be approved as far as PC reports go, and it is what is enforced when discussing how things should be happening.  With a lack of options like maiming, slavery, physical punishment, denying of food/water/sids AND the OOC mood set where one doesn't simply "give" and accept social punishment; murder becomes the only way. 

Corruption:  currently there isn't any focus here.  Not a lot of documentation about how to implement it nor code-wise way to make this an option in game.  The OOC mood set, is there is no ceiling to corruption.  Meaning, it is thought that if a soldier can be paid off to look the other way when a human wish to beat up on a 'rinither breed... that same soldier can be paid off to look the other way when an elf wants to kill a diplomat.  As if somehow corruption is only a matter of sids, instead of this fluctuation does society take a hard stance against verse what is considered "gray area" where a greased palm can make things happen. 

Betrayal: again, the current administrative focus is one that there shouldn't be any trust.  And so it goes back to the corruption thing -- there is no clear line where a PC would say "Yes, I'd do it for this; no, I wouldn't do it for a kit-kat bar" 


There are very few players who are flat-out twinks.  I think what we're seeing are more A) players who can't help but twink - in order for their PCs to survive they need skills and they need to not only work inside but take advantage of every coded opportunity.
B) The OOC lack of trust between players and staff -- that's Arm's mood, not Zananthas'.

[williamson]

       I agree that it's always more fun to be killed by a player than by something random or an accident. However, I feel that players sometimes forget that it can be pretty fun to beat someone down and let them live. I've found that if you leave someone alone, unconscious, naked and minus an ear that they get the message not to mess with you anymore. This is especially true if you are the player with all the power such as a templar or noble. Instead of executing a character, you might exile him until he completes what might seem like an impossible task for you. This happened to one of my characters long ago and resulted in one of my all time favorites after I completed the impossible task. I realize this isn't always possible, but it's something to consider.

-Williamson

[Akaramu]

However, I feel that players sometimes forget that it can be pretty fun to beat someone down and let them live. I've found that if you leave someone alone, unconscious, naked and minus an ear that they get the message not to mess with you anymore.

This probably doesn't happen more often due to the same issue brought up before: Lack of trust in other players. It seems that some, if left alive, will enter emorage revengemode and dedicate the rest of their existence towards eradicating the person who left them alive, their friends, their families, and their pet gortok. Instead of shuffling away, praising the local godking for the fact that they are still alive, and starting a new, more cautious life.

I'm finally no longer a PK virgin. I'll try and make people miserable instead of killing them, if possible. I hope I can trust my victims / enemies to do the same.

[musashi]

I have to disagree with 2 'sids flat out on his corruption take. I've had a very different experience.

[My 2 sids]

I have to disagree with 2 'sids flat out on his corruption take. I've had a very different experience.

Care to elaborate?   

[Suhuy]

I agree that it's always more fun to be killed by a player than by something random or an accident.

I gotta be honest and disagree with the general concensus here. I never think being killed (by a player or an NPC for that matter) is "cool". I never see the mantis head scroll before me and go "Wow, dying was so much fun! Please kill the character I've put so many hours into again!" If death were what I considered a fun aspect of the game then I would go through a new character every week, perhaps even every day, and I'd put the bare minimum into writing them. Perhaps the only time it might get a chuckle or a smile out of me is if I was getting progressively exhausted with my character anyway and conscious or sub-conscious recklessness on my part began to lead to his death in the first place. Death is a crucial aspect of the game because it gives my character's life meaning in the first place. But I most certainly don't jump for joy when my character is killed. At best I might give a nod of respect to the player who pulled off a successful and well RPed PKill against me, but that should be sharply contrasted with the feeling I get when I chow down on an icecream sundae, for example. One makes me smile, the other does not.

However, I feel that players sometimes forget that it can be pretty fun to beat someone down and let them live. I've found that if you leave someone alone, unconscious, naked and minus an ear that they get the message not to mess with you anymore. This is especially true if you are the player with all the power such as a templar or noble. Instead of executing a character, you might exile him until he completes what might seem like an impossible task for you. This happened to one of my characters long ago and resulted in one of my all time favorites after I completed the impossible task. I realize this isn't always possible, but it's something to consider.

Hell yeah. The harshness of the game isn't toned down any when you do something mean and nasty to a character besides just killing them. I would have to give a tremendous hats off and standing ovation to anyone who dumped my character, naked, in the wilderness with just enough distance from the city to make it back on foot, or something like that. Boy, is my character angry he lost all of his worldly possessions - but hey, he was given a second chance! That deserves some serious props.

[musashi]

I have to disagree with 2 'sids flat out on his corruption take. I've had a very different experience.

Care to elaborate?   

I will a little later. At a bar ATM and just happened to check the GDB in the lull of one set swapping out for another.

[Bushranger]

I agree that it's always more fun to be killed by a player than by something random or an accident.

I gotta be honest and disagree with the general concensus here. I never think being killed (by a player or an NPC for that matter) is "cool"... At best I might give a nod of respect to the player who pulled off a successful and well RPed PKill against me, but that should be sharply contrasted with the feeling I get when I chow down on an icecream sundae, for example. One makes me smile, the other does not.

However, I feel that players sometimes forget that it can be pretty fun to beat someone down and let them live. I've found that if you leave someone alone, unconscious, naked and minus an ear that they get the message not to mess with you anymore. This is especially true if you are the player with all the power such as a templar or noble. Instead of executing a character, you might exile him until he completes what might seem like an impossible task for you. This happened to one of my characters long ago and resulted in one of my all time favorites after I completed the impossible task. I realize this isn't always possible, but it's something to consider.

Hell yeah. The harshness of the game isn't toned down any when you do something mean and nasty to a character besides just killing them. I would have to give a tremendous hats off and standing ovation to anyone who dumped my character, naked, in the wilderness with just enough distance from the city to make it back on foot, or something like that. Boy, is my character angry he lost all of his worldly possessions - but hey, he was given a second chance! That deserves some serious props.

For the first part of this I would agree and disagree with. I don't think it's ever "fun" to end up dead! It's generally a depressing and frustrating moment. I've broken one head-set that fell from my head when I bolted up after one death and cracked on the ground! However in retrospect after a suitable time period (and usually a character or two since the death) I am able to look back at a character death and say that it was, or at least the scene(s) surrounding it, was "cool".

I agree completely with the second statement. Anyone ballsy enough to leave an enemy alive after thoroughly humiliating them is seriously awesome.

Old man story time:

In 2007 my half-elf Amos (my real name Amos character) was picked up by a northern templar (Serilla) after being falsely accused as a southern spy. Amos was interrogated, tortured and then forced to eat one of his eyes after it had been plucked from his face before being stripped of belongings and exiled from Tuluk with Serilla suggesting he would only be safe if the did a little spying in Allanak and came up with some information for her. Upon arriving in Allanak Amos was immediately rounded up by a southern templar (Samos) who had been warned by his real northern spy, the one who had spread the false accusations about Amos in Tuluk, and was thrown into the arena to be beaten up by a gith gladiator before being exiled from Allanak! Facing a trek through the desert a second time Amos died to some wilderness critter, scrab or silt horror I think, as he tried to find solace in Red Storm.

At the time I was seriously frustrated at the death because I had all this awesome history with the character now. Exiled from both Tuluk and Allanak with awesome scenes, templars from both cities invading his mind with encouragement to spy for them, it would have been epic! Looking back now though it was epic. Serilla and Samos both exemplified the "beating someone down but letting them live" scenario but Amos' death in the middle of nowhere as he struggled to find some solace in a harsh world was just as appropriate for the story it has left me.

[Cutthroat]

Murder. Corruption. Betrayal. 

This is true, and yet it is up to interpretation when it comes to explaining its role in the game.  There are only a handful of people who dictate the rules and over-all play of this game - we've been told flat out, "when we want your opinion we'll give it to you."  So, it's all about how they interpreted the game they inherited.  This is an OOC issue.

Murder:  currently, Arm is coded to focus on PC-on-PC killing.  It is the easiest to do via code, it is the easiest to set up and be approved as far as PC reports go, and it is what is enforced when discussing how things should be happening.  With a lack of options like maiming, slavery, physical punishment, denying of food/water/sids AND the OOC mood set where one doesn't simply "give" and accept social punishment; murder becomes the only way.

Those options are pretty available in my experience, except for slavery (one can argue it is technically available, but since it just leads to storage, it's better to come up with a good death scene for the victim instead). Do you have to be smart about inflicting it, and okay with taking it? Sure. To me, murder is generally the last resort. Whether the person receiving less lethal punishment actually accepts it or changes their ways, or goes into super-revenge mode, or something in between, it progresses the overall storyline of the game in some way, either by changing the conflict or escalating it. I think being killed by a PC is preferable to being killed by an NPC, but it's kind of like saying I prefer sticking my finger in an electrical outlet to taking a bath with a toaster. Both kind of suck, and I prefer that less lethal responses be given a try in a plot if it is ICly acceptable to do that.

Corruption:  currently there isn't any focus here.  Not a lot of documentation about how to implement it nor code-wise way to make this an option in game.  The OOC mood set, is there is no ceiling to corruption.  Meaning, it is thought that if a soldier can be paid off to look the other way when a human wish to beat up on a 'rinither breed... that same soldier can be paid off to look the other way when an elf wants to kill a diplomat.  As if somehow corruption is only a matter of sids, instead of this fluctuation does society take a hard stance against verse what is considered "gray area" where a greased palm can make things happen.

Corruption isn't just about taking and giving bribes, in my experience. "Corruption" encompasses a whole range of attitudes and actions that, overall, lead to a self-serving attitude. You can take and give bribes, sure. But it's also possible to blackmail people, to deceive people, to say one thing to some and another thing to others. To hold allegiances in secret. To hide being a magicker or sorcerer from the authorities. To be in a position of power and pretend to only use that power for good, but actually also use that power for yourself on the side. To let your superior in your tribe/House/Byn unit die in a hunting accident so you can take their place. To care only about making a profit, regardless of how many people get hurt or killed. Being anything less than a completely morally good person is corruption, and frankly, almost every PC I've seen has been noticeably corrupt in the sense I've described, in my years of playing. The rest probably just hid it too well.

Betrayal: again, the current administrative focus is one that there shouldn't be any trust.  And so it goes back to the corruption thing -- there is no clear line where a PC would say "Yes, I'd do it for this; no, I wouldn't do it for a kit-kat bar"

I don't think there shouldn't be any trust. Just that there should be risks to misplacing trust - which there does seem to be. It's up to us to determine what is reasonable in that regard.

[kayza]

Suhuy you are right.  When I say rather have my character die from a PC it is because I accepted that this is a permadeath MUD and my character will die.  

Getting too attached to your character is something I try not to do.  I took someone else's advice  mentioned on the GDB and played the game as if I am pushing some puppet around.  When bad things happen to them, I can laugh about it also.

So with that in mind the reason I rather have my character die from a PC is because
1.  They are going to die anyways.
2.  At least he/she died apart of some story, they had some purpose in the game.  Not me just getting bored and storing or dies from some pointless cause.  Deaths like that your PC might as well never existed.  Making some sort of impact on the other PCs has been my goal in this game.

But this isn't a PK mud, so I will fight to remind people that dying or killing is not something to be hurt or proud of.  Characters who get things done without any code are -much- more impressive.

[musashi]

Corruption:  currently there isn't any focus here.  Not a lot of documentation about how to implement it nor code-wise way to make this an option in game.  The OOC mood set, is there is no ceiling to corruption.  Meaning, it is thought that if a soldier can be paid off to look the other way when a human wish to beat up on a 'rinither breed... that same soldier can be paid off to look the other way when an elf wants to kill a diplomat.  As if somehow corruption is only a matter of sids, instead of this fluctuation does society take a hard stance against verse what is considered "gray area" where a greased palm can make things happen. 

I'm not sure what you mean by "not a lot of code-wise way to make corruption an option in game". However, it hasn't been my experience at all that there is no ceiling to corruption. Corruption seems to exists within well defined parameters all through out the game world, clan to clan. As a simple, easy to see example ... a southern templar can be corrupt in very different ways than a northern templar can, and vice versa.

A southern militia soldier is going to be far less likely to take bribes from a foreigner than from a south side born and bred, as another example.

Corruption has never seemed to me to just be a matter of 'sids. In fact corruption has never seemed to me to be a matter of 'sids at all. Rather, it typically manifests as a matter of who you know. People looking out for their own at the expense of a victim, ect ect.

[Recharge]

Half of the fun is dying. I never put in any love or provide any attachment to my characters so Im never disappointed with their cause of death, usually gives me a laugh when they finally go.

[Maso]

I think for me it's less attachment to the character and more attachment to whatever they were trying to achieve. If you have a goal to achieve, that starts to look attainable...for example building something, having a law changed, starting a really cool plot...all this stuff requires a certain amount of RL energy, time and dedication. When you have invested a certain amount and then a character dies before said goal is achieved...then that can be a bit sad. Even more so when your characters death leaves other people in a more difficult (OOC'ly rather than IC'ly challenging) situation or not being able to pick up where you left off.

Otherwise, yeah, everybody dies!

[Dar]

What makes me saddest about dying is that all those other PCs who were dependent on me for whatever, suddenly end up with a void there. That probably what makes me sad about death. When my chara is unknown and his life is not paramount to anything particular, his death doesnt usually bother me much.

[Riev]

What makes me saddest about dying is that all those other PCs who were dependent on me for whatever, suddenly end up with a void there. That probably what makes me sad about death. When my chara is unknown and his life is not paramount to anything particular, his death doesnt usually bother me much.

Similar to how there were a bunch of PCs that died in the wake of the HRPT a few years ago, and suddenly there were a bunch of RP holes and leadership roles (Poet Laureate style) that needed filling. It was less sad that PCs died, and more that all the living PCs lost good friends maybe.

[X-D]

I feel like I got some Kudos.

Dar has the right of it though. If you want to avoid death by one of my PCs AND many others, specially templars etc. Recognize the position you are in and act in a realistic fashion. (disclaimer, The upcoming does not work if I am playing an assassin, because if I am doing it right, you will not know till the mantis head) If you are in a situation where the aggresser PC SURELY has you outgunned Here are the key actions, All of which people have used on me in the past and avoided death, Some of them I have used. GROVEL, Beg, Bribe, FLATTER. Show fear for your life. Pcs that are all bravado in the face of certain death are assumed to simply not care if they die and are often not dissapointed.

I highlight Grovel and Flatter because I find they work best on truly high powered PCs, Bribing, Well, lets face it, there is a good chance that templar already has everything. And beg is close to groveling, But not exactly...Beg is mostly talking and grovel would be emotes. And it is REALLY hard to kill somebody writhing in the dust at your feet kissing your boots.

I have seen some really good groveling in my time and all of them lived, even if they attacked my PC first.

And keep in mind, True, there are some PKs that are simply about the PK, but I think most the time, at least the people that do it often are more about the scene/story then the actual kill.

On a side note, to the OP, somebody mentioned that in the past on arm, the locked room newb murder or the hey Lets hunt together newb murder were considered rights of passage. Seems like you are progressing just fine, made it through and still playing...congrats.

[Akaramu]

My most unpleasant death to date was spending some two hours begging, flattering, grovelling, making promises and doing everything that was asked at like, 4 AM in the morning when I should have logged hours ago. Only to be killed regardless, with everything that was said and done strongly indicating I had been picked completely at random. And had absolutely no way of identifying and reporting the killers, which they very well knew. The 4 AM part was the really bad part about it, really, I've no real complaint about the PCs involved. I was too scared of being killed if I OOCed asking them to speed things up a bit because I had to log, so I never asked.

But the one 'good' PK I experienced makes up for the unfun ones, which were unfun due to circumstances or because the person couldn't risk doing anything more than backstab Akaramu. Much <3 for Ghost, even after all these years.

Edit to add: Actually there was another decent PK. You guys do a good job with it, usually.

[ShaLeah]

I feel like I got some Kudos.

Dar has the right of it though. If you want to avoid death by one of my PCs AND many others, specially templars etc. Recognize the position you are in and act in a realistic fashion. (disclaimer, The upcoming does not work if I am playing an assassin, because if I am doing it right, you will not know till the mantis head) If you are in a situation where the aggresser PC SURELY has you outgunned Here are the key actions, All of which people have used on me in the past and avoided death, Some of them I have used. GROVEL, Beg, Bribe, FLATTER. Show fear for your life. Pcs that are all bravado in the face of certain death are assumed to simply not care if they die and are often not dissapointed.

I highlight Grovel and Flatter because I find they work best on truly high powered PCs, Bribing, Well, lets face it, there is a good chance that templar already has everything. And beg is close to groveling, But not exactly...Beg is mostly talking and grovel would be emotes. And it is REALLY hard to kill somebody writhing in the dust at your feet kissing your boots.

I have seen some really good groveling in my time and all of them lived, even if they attacked my PC first.

And keep in mind, True, there are some PKs that are simply about the PK, but I think most the time, at least the people that do it often are more about the scene/story then the actual kill.

On a side note, to the OP, somebody mentioned that in the past on arm, the locked room newb murder or the hey Lets hunt together newb murder were considered rights of passage. Seems like you are progressing just fine, made it through and still playing...congrats.

Will you please murder me?

[Lizzie]

My most unpleasant death to date was spending some two hours begging, flattering, grovelling, making promises and doing everything that was asked at like, 4 AM in the morning when I should have logged hours ago. Only to be killed regardless, with everything that was said and done strongly indicating I had been picked completely at random. And had absolutely no way of identifying and reporting the killers, which they very well knew. The 4 AM part was the really bad part about it, really, I've no real complaint about the PCs involved. I was too scared of being killed if I OOCed asking them to speed things up a bit because I had to log, so I never asked.

But the one 'good' PK I experienced makes up for the unfun ones, which were unfun due to circumstances or because the person couldn't risk doing anything more than backstab Akaramu. Much <3 for Ghost, even after all these years.

Edit to add: Actually there was another decent PK. You guys do a good job with it, usually.

I did exactly what you avoided doing, two different times. Two different templars. It was pretty obvious death was going to happen, and escape wasn't an option. So when they asked for consent for torture I said no, just get the killing done so I could log out for the night because it was late.

I wouldn't have consented for torture anyway, but I also didn't want a long drawn-out fade or ooc discussion about which limb I no longer possess due to the virtual torturing that happened without the RP. I just wanted to go to bed.

[Synthesis]

My most unpleasant death to date was spending some two hours begging, flattering, grovelling, making promises and doing everything that was asked at like, 4 AM in the morning when I should have logged hours ago. Only to be killed regardless, with everything that was said and done strongly indicating I had been picked completely at random. And had absolutely no way of identifying and reporting the killers, which they very well knew. The 4 AM part was the really bad part about it, really, I've no real complaint about the PCs involved. I was too scared of being killed if I OOCed asking them to speed things up a bit because I had to log, so I never asked.

But the one 'good' PK I experienced makes up for the unfun ones, which were unfun due to circumstances or because the person couldn't risk doing anything more than backstab Akaramu. Much <3 for Ghost, even after all these years.

Edit to add: Actually there was another decent PK. You guys do a good job with it, usually.

LOL.  Once, I bargained with a Red Fang so long that the guy I was guarding died of thirst.

[Case]

Whenever I've been in a situation to kill somebody, I've always tried to make it more than a quick gank, and if possible, telegraphing reasons for it.

I hope others do the same to me.

[Derain]

-.0

[musashi]

My most unpleasant death to date was spending some two hours begging, flattering, grovelling, making promises and doing everything that was asked at like, 4 AM in the morning when I should have logged hours ago. Only to be killed regardless, with everything that was said and done strongly indicating I had been picked completely at random. And had absolutely no way of identifying and reporting the killers, which they very well knew. The 4 AM part was the really bad part about it, really, I've no real complaint about the PCs involved. I was too scared of being killed if I OOCed asking them to speed things up a bit because I had to log, so I never asked.

But the one 'good' PK I experienced makes up for the unfun ones, which were unfun due to circumstances or because the person couldn't risk doing anything more than backstab Akaramu. Much <3 for Ghost, even after all these years.

Edit to add: Actually there was another decent PK. You guys do a good job with it, usually.

Very little killing in Armageddon PC to PC happens completely at random.

[Akaramu]

Right. But if that's the impression you are given - 

[musashi]

Like Fathi said, sometimes the death isn't always expounded upon ala James Bond Villian Style.