All Those Lost Crafting Recipes of Long Ago

[Maso]

I'm not really in favor of the OP. In real life, developing new and novel designs one has never made before takes a lot of time and effort, and we have this expressed in game via the mastercraft system.

Personally I think it's too far the other way. Want to mastercraft something for someone, tell them they should expect to wait several YEARS for that strappy stress you're designing for them? Uhmmm...it's a bit overkill tbh, but I understand the need to take the weight off staff, but it is by no means a realistic time frame for designing a basic product. Maybe if they were inventing the car. Or a time machine.

So giving a few hints every now and then to new and exciting recipes...could just be a bit of balance.

[FantasyWriter]

My suggestion:

Put a roll call out for one to three builders to go through the database and make everything (everything that is appropriate, I mean) craftable.
I know I would volunteer.

Set some of the generic shops to pull random, non-clanned, items that fit the shops' "types".



Welcome to Craftergeddon.

[boog]

^

That wouldn't solve anything! We still wouldn't know how to make those items, durnit!

[FantasyWriter]

^

That wouldn't solve anything! We still wouldn't know how to make those items, durnit!

My suggestion:

Put a roll call out for one to three builders to go through the database and make everything (everything that is appropriate, I mean) craftable.
I know I would volunteer.

Set some of the generic shops to pull random, non-clanned, items that fit the shops' "types"


Welcome to Craftergeddon.

>help skill analyze

If everything were craftable, and random items were popping all over the place, we could "discover" new craftables and old ones without any "spoilers."


Make better sense? I don't seem to be doing very well at that lately, lol. Or so saith the wife.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

I'm 100% in favor of the original poster's idea.

[boog]

^

That wouldn't solve anything! We still wouldn't know how to make those items, durnit!

My suggestion:

Put a roll call out for one to three builders to go through the database and make everything (everything that is appropriate, I mean) craftable.
I know I would volunteer.

Set some of the generic shops to pull random, non-clanned, items that fit the shops' "types"


Welcome to Craftergeddon.

>help skill analyze

If everything were craftable, and random items were popping all over the place, we could "discover" new craftables and old ones without any "spoilers."


Make better sense? I don't seem to be doing very well at that lately, lol. Or so saith the wife.

Oh. Right. Derp.

[musashi]

I'm not really in favor of the OP. In real life, developing new and novel designs one has never made before takes a lot of time and effort, and we have this expressed in game via the mastercraft system.

Personally I think it's too far the other way. Want to mastercraft something for someone, tell them they should expect to wait several YEARS for that strappy stress you're designing for them? Uhmmm...it's a bit overkill tbh, but I understand the need to take the weight off staff, but it is by no means a realistic time frame for designing a basic product. Maybe if they were inventing the car. Or a time machine.

So giving a few hints every now and then to new and exciting recipes...could just be a bit of balance.

It doesn't take years IG to mastercraft something basic. It takes 1 RL month. Which is pretty reasonable.
But you can experience longer delays if the thing you want calls for a lot of something, or a rare something, or several rare somethings, or if the merchant doing it for you dies/stores, or if they just don't like your PC and never put the submission in ...

EDIT TO ADD: I'd actually like to see Nyr get all data-fu up in this thread and let us know roughly how many craftable items are currently not in game at all because no one knows how to craft them anymore. Might shed some light on the actual scope of the problem.

[Maso]

I always got the impression it took longer than that. It doesn't say in the helpfile how long it will take to turn around, just how often you can submit them. My bad!

[Wug]

EDIT TO ADD: I'd actually like to see Nyr get all data-fu up in this thread and let us know roughly how many craftable items are currently not in game at all because no one knows how to craft them anymore. Might shed some light on the actual scope of the problem.

I checked. The number of "lost' recipes is vanishingly small.

[hyzhenhok]

My suggestion:

Put a roll call out for one to three builders to go through the database and make everything (everything that is appropriate, I mean) craftable.
I know I would volunteer.

This, of course, would be awesome and amazing. I would roll a merchant.

[Maker]

My suggestion:

Put a roll call out for one to three builders to go through the database and make everything (everything that is appropriate, I mean) craftable.
I know I would volunteer.

This, of course, would be awesome and amazing. I would roll a merchant.

Honestly, I think there are far too many PC merchants as it is.  I, for one, am in favor of doing whatever we can to discourage merchant apps.

[boog]

My suggestion:

Put a roll call out for one to three builders to go through the database and make everything (everything that is appropriate, I mean) craftable.
I know I would volunteer.

This, of course, would be awesome and amazing. I would roll a merchant.

Honestly, I think there are far too many PC merchants as it is.  I, for one, am in favor of doing whatever we can to discourage merchant apps.

Cereal? Huh.

[Tenua]

I always got the impression it took longer than that. It doesn't say in the helpfile how long it will take to turn around, just how often you can submit them. My bad!

Wait time on CUSTOM items is an IG year, unless said Merchant is already working on one, and has others waiting.

Example:
Lord Fancypants goes to Kadius and wants a full outfit designed for him and him alone. That's hat, fancy frilly collar, billowing tunic with House colors and image embrodiered, matching pants, frilly shoes that match the collar...... That's 5 items. That's 5 IG years to complete this ONE order. You can only submit ONE item a month. Not one item per Mastered Skill.

These things do happen. A lot. This is where the long wait times come in. More people need to play Merchant who Master skills!

[Marc]

I always got the impression it took longer than that. It doesn't say in the helpfile how long it will take to turn around, just how often you can submit them. My bad!

Wait time on CUSTOM items is an IG year, unless said Merchant is already working on one, and has others waiting.

Example:
Lord Fancypants goes to Kadius and wants a full outfit designed for him and him alone. That's hat, fancy frilly collar, billowing tunic with House colors and image embrodiered, matching pants, frilly shoes that match the collar...... That's 5 items. That's 5 IG years to complete this ONE order. You can only submit ONE item a month. Not one item per Mastered Skill.

These things do happen. A lot. This is where the long wait times come in. More people need to play Merchant who Master skills!

Or people need to be "OK" with that "plain silk shirt" "plain frilly collar"  "plain hat" etc.  Custom orders are poo poo.  They are nifty here and there, but these dreams of custom tips to toes is OOC selfish.  ICly Fashion is set by a certain House.  If you want new clothes, buy their stuff on rotation.  It's what's stylish at the moment.  It's the hip fashion.  The hip color.  If your character is so conceeded/rich that they would have custom gear, RP it.  Hire a PC as a tailor.  Sure, they might not give you a wardrobe full of unique gear, but they can RP customizing a whole damn outfit.  It's just gonna happen to have sdesc similar to what others might have.  Whoopedy-doo.

Instead use your mastercrafts and expand our crafting library!

[Maso]

Now I want to play a character that is an independent personal tailor and stylist to the....stars (highborn)!

[Delirium]

I played a snobby Kadian that essentially became Ceylara Borsail's personal stylist... it was a lot of fun putting appropriate outfits together.

I highly recommend that sort of role... paying attention to gameworld fashion is more rewarding than one might initially think.

[Maso]

I played a snobby Kadian that essentially became Ceylara Borsail's personal stylist... it was a lot of fun putting appropriate outfits together.

I highly recommend that sort of role... paying attention to gameworld fashion is more rewarding than one might initially think.

Were you responsible for the wedding dress? :p

[Delirium]

I don't think so... I don't recall her being married while I was playing around her. Alas, I got brutally murdered.

[Maso]

I don't think so... I don't recall her being married while I was playing around her. Alas, I got brutally murdered.

That's a perfect ending for any Allanaki.

[Delirium]

Especially a Tuluki ex-pat Allanaki.... fun times.

[Orin]

Would it be more fitting if it was a learned-over-time type deal? For example:

Code Select Expand

>craft dung
You don't know how to craft anything from that.

>craft dung 2.dung
You could craft a dried dung patty from that.

>craft dung 2.dung into a dried dung patty
You set to work crafting...

You have crafted a dried dung patty!
>craft dung
If you had two dung's, you could craft:
a dried dung patty


In this situation you would have had to craft it at least once, but then after that you could see the possibilities.  It would still be trial and error, but would show an IC progression over time where you learned new recipes.

[musashi]

I always got the impression it took longer than that. It doesn't say in the helpfile how long it will take to turn around, just how often you can submit them. My bad!

Wait time on CUSTOM items is an IG year, unless said Merchant is already working on one, and has others waiting.

Example:
Lord Fancypants goes to Kadius and wants a full outfit designed for him and him alone. That's hat, fancy frilly collar, billowing tunic with House colors and image embrodiered, matching pants, frilly shoes that match the collar...... That's 5 items. That's 5 IG years to complete this ONE order. You can only submit ONE item a month. Not one item per Mastered Skill.

These things do happen. A lot. This is where the long wait times come in. More people need to play Merchant who Master skills!

One IG year is ... 1.5 RL months. So I was off by 2 weeks. You get your master craft item you submitted 2 weeks after you submit your next one. This isn't a long time.

The cap of 1 submisison per month instead of per mastercrafted skill ... I guess one could make an IG case about the merchent needing to focus all their effort on the one novel design they're working on but, really, I think it's just more of an OOC thing. Staff has to build all that stuff, and merchants get like what? Over 20 crafting skills? If it wasn't capped at 1 per RL month then you could submit 20 something a month, but you'd be waiting a lot longer to get the actual items as staff struggled to climb out from under the back log.

Wug has already said in this thread that the amount of "lost" crafting recipes (ie the items are no longer even in game to be analized anymore) is vanishingly small. Meaning most stuff is in game to be found, analyzed, and reverse engineered so ... I'm not seeing where the problem is. There are no "lost crafting recipes of long ago".  

[redkank]

Is it vanishingly small because of the OOC databases circulating around that someone mentioned earlier from google? 
For an average player starting the game, it is very intimidating to learn the crafting professions.  I realize if a player has obtained a
searchable database by whatever means, they wouldn't need in game reference. Is building a data base really what you
want players doing?  Or would you rather have a searchable in game method to do the same thing?

[X-D]

I rather wonder what method Wug used to supposedly check this anyway.

I mean, the only real method would be to list every item that exists in the game world, then list every item in the items database, then subtract the first from the second, then check the remaining items and see if they are craftable.

Which would likely take some time.

But then one would have to go through every single item that is in game and check and see if they are accessable to players. I doubt very much if Wug did that.

After all, items on NPCs that are locked away in staff use areas do not count, items locked away in unused or even used templars quarters, nobles estates etc etc etc also do not count.

My bet is, if you took all these factors into account and actually put in the many hours to check you would find that fully half the possible crafts do not exist in a manner that a player is likely to ever be able to assess it.

Hell, if I check my own personal crafts list I run into 30% not seen by me in at least 2 years in just the first page.

If I bothered to check older stuff my bet is that would just increase. Hell, I have lists of ordered items, most of which still exist in the data base that many clan staffers do not know exist and it often takes weeks for me to get them ordered simply because it takes that long to convince anybody there is such a thing.

Then there is bugged crafts, some of which I have bugged in the last couple years, they are not in game simply because something in the craft itself is bugged.

[Nyr]

You can analyze an item that is a finished product to find out what went into making it.  That's presently all that you can do codedly.  We've discussed this kind of expansion of crafting (players have, too), but it is not in the works right now.  Hopefully it'll be reviewed and implemented at some point in the future.

Locking this thread because it has devolved once again into the following:

Some of you folks front on the GDB like the game has your balls (or other reproductive organs) in a vice, when in reality, you can do x or y thing to alleviate whatever minor frustration you are discussing at present.  Please keep some perspective when discussing issues on the GDB.

...and that's not an environment for constructive and honest discussion of an idea.