All Those Lost Crafting Recipes of Long Ago

[redkank]

Wouldn't it be neat if you could look up an item based on one of the components used to craft it?  Example I have object X in my inventory.  I RESEARCH X and it pulls a list of objects that I am capable of making with my skills/clan that could be made with X as one of the components.  Then I use another skill, possibly ENGINEER (item in inventory) (item I want to learn how to make from the research list) to get the additional components.  Doing this would eliminate the need for many documents of personal database creation and bookwork by the player, and would shift it to more of an ingame approach especially for new crafters.

[Qzzrbl]

TRIAL AND ERROR ALL DAY ERRYDAY

[Orin]

But this would make all those google docs spreadsheets people make obsolete!

...I like it and would play a merchant for the second time if this was implemented.

[boog]

But this would make all those google docs spreadsheets people make obsolete!

...I like it and would play a merchant for the second time if this was implemented.

God, yes. I wish I woulda known I wouldn't remember everything after my first merchant. I keep thinking I know this recipe or that and I DO NOT REMEMBER JACK SHIT.

The next time around, god dammit, the next time around ...

[Potaje]

could try compiling one icly, by buying receipts from other merchants in game. 

[Maker]

Building my database currently.  'trial and error'...you ain't kidding.

[John]

God, yes. I wish I woulda known I wouldn't remember everything after my first merchant. I keep thinking I know this recipe or that and I DO NOT REMEMBER JACK SHIT.

Well your current merchant wouldn't know it, so it actually makes sense.

I dunno. I can see the appeal but if I have a "white piece of sandcloth" I shouldn't automatically know that if I obtain ULTRA RARE ITEM THAT NO-ONE KNOWS ABOUT EXCEPT 2 PLAYERS I can make a killer dress.

So I can certainly see the appeal of all those WTF moments. But I can see the downside as well.

I'm also not a fan of people keeping spreadsheets between characters and using that to gain an advantage on their next character.

[Qzzrbl]

I'm also not a fan of people keeping spreadsheets between characters and using that to gain an advantage on their next character.

I'd agree with you here if the current crafting system wasn't so all over the place.

Keep in mind, if a customer asks for a club made out of fuckwood-- it's less frustrating to the player of the crafter to have previously discovered recipes written down.

'Cause there's a huge difference between a knotted length of fuckwood, and a knotty length of fuckwood.

[hyzhenhok]

God, yes. I wish I woulda known I wouldn't remember everything after my first merchant. I keep thinking I know this recipe or that and I DO NOT REMEMBER JACK SHIT.

Well your current merchant wouldn't know it, so it actually makes sense.

I dunno. I can see the appeal but if I have a "white piece of sandcloth" I shouldn't automatically know that if I obtain ULTRA RARE ITEM THAT NO-ONE KNOWS ABOUT EXCEPT 2 PLAYERS I can make a killer dress.

So I can certainly see the appeal of all those WTF moments. But I can see the downside as well.

I'm also not a fan of people keeping spreadsheets between characters and using that to gain an advantage on their next character.

I don't see how this is any different than all other sorts of other IC information. It's the player's responsibility to roleplay what his character should and shouldn't know believably, true. But when it comes to rolling characters beyond 'stupid hick who never left his farming village until today,' you actually need that IC knowledge to play your character believably. This applies to PC crafters as well--guild_merchants often have mercantile or crafting backgrounds, and it doesn't make sense for them to be fumbling around completely in the dark and there are plenty of feasible IC explanations for why someone's theoretical knowledge of how to make things would exceed their technical expertise.

[FantasyWriter]

What the purple baby silt horror said.

[X-D]

I am all for the OP idea.

After all, if your skill is high enough you DO know how to make it...ICly, it is OOC knowledge that is lacking.

Besides, With such a system if you did not have the skill high enough it would not show the killer dress...or if you are not in the killer dress clan.

[Maso]

God, yes. I wish I woulda known I wouldn't remember everything after my first merchant. I keep thinking I know this recipe or that and I DO NOT REMEMBER JACK SHIT.

Well your current merchant wouldn't know it, so it actually makes sense.

I dunno. I can see the appeal but if I have a "white piece of sandcloth" I shouldn't automatically know that if I obtain ULTRA RARE ITEM THAT NO-ONE KNOWS ABOUT EXCEPT 2 PLAYERS I can make a killer dress.

So I can certainly see the appeal of all those WTF moments. But I can see the downside as well.

I'm also not a fan of people keeping spreadsheets between characters and using that to gain an advantage on their next character.

I thought I hate the idea, but when I thought about it...it makes a lot of sense.

On an IC level...you should totally know. Especially if you are a master crafter...because you should be able to make -anything- you want. So since you can technically make -anything- you want in your area of expertise anyway...knowing what recipes already exist would just be handy and stop duplication via master crafting, and give people a little more to play with, and bring some interesting 'lost' items back into the game.

I can open my fridge and see I have potato and think...well, if I go get some tuna...I could make baked potato with tuna. I don't need the tuna to figure it out. In fact, if I went out and got -anything at all-, I could stick it on the baked potato.

Maybe it could be a function of analyze if you are a -master- at the required skill. I bet most of the really interesting ones are clan only stuff. Most the items in game don't seem to be craftable anyway...so adding a few more to the mix of what crafters get to play with, would be sweeeeeet.

[Spoon]

I don't get how you should know how to make something you've never made/seen before from one of it's component parts. Am I misinterpreting this?

[My 2 sids]

I don't get how you should know how to make something you've never made/seen before from one of it's component parts. Am I misinterpreting this?

Because by the time you get a little skills down in the basics, you start to recognize what does and what doesn't work together.

If your character knows fabric and has been around fabric... they can basically figure out how to make something just from the description.   As in, a quilter could figure out a certain pattern simply by knowing the materials and lingo.

It may not be the best, but it's good.

[Maso]

I don't get how you should know how to make something you've never made/seen before from one of it's component parts. Am I misinterpreting this?

Because if you're a master at crafting...then you should probably have the IC skills required to 'design' something from scratch...which you can do with master crafting...which essentially means you should be able to figure out pretty much anything?

How about...the occasional chance to get a glimpse at a full recipe sometimes when you analyze something at master level?

analyze wood
> you can make blah
> you can make blah
> you think you might be able to make a sword with this and a chunk of obsidian - very rarely

[Patuk]

I honestly don't see who benefits from god knows how many recipes being either lost or restricted to people who either spent an ungodly amount of time practicing trial and error tactics, have friends, or who have simply played the game for a longer time.

[boog]

I don't get how you should know how to make something you've never made/seen before from one of it's component parts. Am I misinterpreting this?

Because if you're a master at crafting...then you should probably have the IC skills required to 'design' something from scratch...which you can do with master crafting...which essentially means you should be able to figure out pretty much anything?

How about...the occasional chance to get a glimpse at a full recipe sometimes when you analyze something at master level?

analyze wood
> you can make blah
> you can make blah
> you think you might be able to make a sword with this and a chunk of obsidian - very rarely

I like this idea.  - Though very rarely ... people'd just spam analyze. Heh. I think analyzing a material would be awesome.

I guess my BIGGEST problem right now is that I remember all the clanned recipes, but not the unclanned. Anyway, I just hate the crafting system. I can't remember a darn thing, especially not with preggers brain. I agree with hyz's post: I trust myself and 90% of other players playing merchants to not go and make the most profitable items that they have collected on a spreadsheet right off the bat. I remember documentation and lore, but depending on my role, I don't go spouting off wisdom about all of it.

[AmandaGreathouse]

I honestly like the idea a lot. It would bring the crafting system a little closer to the one part of Dark Isles crafting system I enjoyed, wherein you didn't have people with 10 years playing experience keeping spreadsheets and having a ton of knowledge that new players couldn't acquire even when and if their merchant mastered every craft.

I'm all for making things more fun when it comes to crafting stuff. There's a ton of recipes most people will never see or find or get because they take 4 or 5 items. Now... with probably a thousand or so raw material items in the game, that's a ton of possible combinations that no one is likely to find without assistance or a spreadsheet. Diversifying the world is not a bad thing. Variety keeps things fun and interesting.

[My 2 sids]

Maybe it's not individual items that are brought up, but rather the materials themselves?  After all, if I'm at the market and pick up an herb I've never used before it's not the recipe per say that I'm thinking of, rather I compare the new herb with something similar and then try to use the new herb like that.

Perhaps "guess" could even be a branch off analize.   

Code Select Expand


> guess wood
> you can make A
> you can make B
> you can make C

> [i]you guess wood may work well with obsidian[/i]   

Now the PC has to figure out which exact obsidian could be used for the recipe, but would still have a good general idea of what to craft with what.

[Maker]

Personally, I wish it were set up that every branch could be made into a haft and every stone could be made into a hammer head and any haft and any head could be assembled into a hammer.  Then have stats for various materials such that each has various strengths and weaknesses in various crafted objects.  Set up general recipes that say, for example, you need an x, a y and a z object to assemble into a steel broadsword.  Whatever materials you use to make an x, a y, and a z is up to you and the overall qulity of the sword depends on what materials you used adn your skill level. 

Granted, I know a system like this would require a re-work of pretty much everything from item stats to recipes to materials.  I didn't say it was going to happen.  Just think it would be more realistic.

[Jeshin]

Maker you're looking at ARM 2 crafting basically. It would have a system like that.

[Maso]

Maker you're looking at ARM 2 crafting basically. It would have a system like that.

It would of had.

I don't think herbs would be involved much in this anyway...since they come under brewing...which is a whole other kettle of cockroaches.

[Maker]

Maker you're looking at ARM 2 crafting basically. It would have a system like that.

Well, I read somewhere Arm 2 is killed, but a lot of the ideas suggested for it were staying on the possible to do list.  Anyone know if this is one of those ideas?

[Maso]

I think that would be pretty enormous. I recall there being a mention of continuing to develop the codebase (is that the right word) that Arm 2 was going to be built on...and a very vague possibility that it may one day be implemented but that this was also highly unlikely...but still a tiny weeny bit possible.

I figure they would need that to make the changes to crafting.

I think most problems could just be resolved from having MORE RECIPES. Yayyyy!!!

[musashi]

I'm not really in favor of the OP. In real life, developing new and novel designs one has never made before takes a lot of time and effort, and we have this expressed in game via the mastercraft system. Reverse engineering something that's already been made is the short cut you can take to piggy back off the hard work of people who have come before you but you really need a finished product to easily accomplish this. One does not look at a hinge and simply gather the knowledge to make the whole chest of drawers intuitively.

I think our analyze function does an ok job of letting us reverse engineer stuff, but it can be a pain sometimes if the craft you're doing is a multi step one.

What I would like to see implemented is analyze as an actual skill, wherein when you analyze something you have a chance of figuring out its components, and at higher levels, the prerequisites to those components if there are any. So for example, not only would you know that the wardrobe is made from wood planks, you would also be told those wood planks came from a knotty log of fuckwood.