The Unseen Way and Distance

[FantasyWriter]

You can always use barrier if you want to hide.

Good point.  If you are in Allanak, it should take a LOT more effort to break through someone's barrier two days travel away that it does someone sitting at the bar with you.

[X-D]

Good point.  If you are in Allanak, it should take a LOT more effort to break through someone's barrier two days travel away that it does someone sitting at the bar with you.

How do you know it is not? That is information staff would never verify either way.

As to the idea of making the way harder over distance then it already may be....Um...NO.

You want to know what the first and end result to that would be?

Rampant OOC communications/coordination. Simple as that, people are lazy. As it stands we have a basically easy, reliable TRACKABLE IC way...being reliable and easy means people use it. Make it hard and unreliable and people simply will not, they will go to the easier method.

I am sure many, if not most players already talk to each other outside the game, but I also think they for the most part keep the IC...IG and the OOC OOG...and why, because right now it is easy to do.

Lastly...what exactly does this add to the game? How will it improve enjoyment for a majority of the players? To those questions I come up with a big fat goose egg myself. I see only aggravation and annoyance. Specially to off peak players and leaders. And hey, lets just make life harder for those already taxing roles.

[kayza]

X-D wins!

[Kismetic]

X-D wins! is playing a bender

Really, though, I just hate the Way.  It's a token convenience that is probably more abused than OOC/IC (do that many of you talk outside of the game/boards?) or any other single feature.

At its most basic, it stimulates RP opportunities, and that's about all I care for.  They're not gonna change this, though, so we're gonna have to keep on living with Dial-A-Target psionics.

Of course, I (and some others) would stop bitching if "A foreign presence contacts your mind." was replaced with "The tan, muscular man contacts your mind."

And you know, people used it for communication, rather than checking to see if you're online.

[Maso]

Well, either way.

There are a variety of tactics that can be successfully utilised to allow a character to disappear, fake death, whatever. I have done it. It's very possible.

Barrier is a good part of the equation.

[Kismetic]

I don't even care about the whole disappearing whatever.  Maybe I just attract that kind of player, but it happens a lot.  There was a time when I passed it off as accidental.  Sometimes, it probably is.  But I swear, it's the only thing in this game that gets under my skin.

Get PKed?  Haha, sure.  Laugh it off.  Move on.

Don't like my PC?  Good.

Obviously abusing OOC information?  File a complaint.  Note it in a report.

Crush my barrier and cease?  Really?  Are you fucking retarded?

I'm done ranting (and derailing), though.  I think adding an sdesc in the contact line would discourage that, but hey, maybe the staff want it this way for a reason.  Maybe there's some sekrit reason that people do it that I don't know about.  Whatevs.

[X-D]

Now, I have always been behind the ideas of how the contact messages themselves work.

As I have always been against way fishing for sdesc as well as way fishing to see if somebody is online.

Personally I think when you contact somebody with the way you should get "you find a mind" And the other person should just get the echo we already have. You should only get the sdesc on a psi...So your target would actually have to way you back for you to get the sdesc.

I think I will idea that IG, I bet that would take Morg or Ness or Tier like 30 seconds to change.

[Ktavialt]

Personally I think when you contact somebody with the way you should get "you find a mind" And the other person should just get the echo we already have. You should only get the sdesc on a psi...So your target would actually have to way you back for you to get the sdesc.

That's pretty neat, though I'd still prefer the changes discussed... at least its something.

[BadSkeelz]

As someone whose used the Way to put names to sdescs (and feels somewhat guilty doing so), I think one solution might be to change the Way so that instead of

Code Select Expand

contact Amos

you contact the tall, muscular man,

you get

Code Select Expand


contact Amos

you contact Amos

It's introduce a little uncertainty into the Way, though name overlap isn't anywhere as bad as sdesc keyword overlap.

[Maso]

Now, I have always been behind the ideas of how the contact messages themselves work.

As I have always been against way fishing for sdesc as well as way fishing to see if somebody is online.

Personally I think when you contact somebody with the way you should get "you find a mind" And the other person should just get the echo we already have. You should only get the sdesc on a psi...So your target would actually have to way you back for you to get the sdesc.

I think I will idea that IG, I bet that would take Morg or Ness or Tier like 30 seconds to change.

That would be pretty cool. I don't like the practice of 'fishing' much either.

However, I like to give people the benefit of the doubt. I reckon the majority of the time players contact/cease without saying anything...is usually because they have contacted the wrong person. I do it ALL the time. PC's share names and keywords quite frequently. So when my sekret Guild burglar accidentally contacts the big ferret-faced templar instead of the hot, ferret-faced whore...I'm just going to get the hell out of there without saying anything. Thankyouverymuch.

I also found recently with a new PC....that I was getting contact/ceased ALL THE FRICKING TIME. Yes, it was annoying as hell. But at this point...my PC didn't know anyone, she hadn't really seen anyone around who knew her sdesc or her name. She was a complete unknown. So all this attention...well...it must have been intended for someone else. So I figure...my new PC shares a rare keyword with a super popular character and let it go.

[Kismetic]

However, I like to give people the benefit of the doubt.

I would like to.  In the past, I've known there were legitimate mistaken identities.  I also know it's not always the case.  What would be cool is to eliminate the practice altogether.

+1, X-D

[musashi]

To the point about using barrier to hide, I don't think this is as viable an option as it once was, because now you can buff your contact attempt by using a character name and a string of keywords.

To X-D's slippery slope argument, I'm just not buying it. I don't believe that we're all pieces of untrustworthy poo who would cheat at the drop of a hat the moment something in the game inconveniences us even a little tiny bit. *shrug* Rather, I think those who plan things OOC'ly ... are already doing it. And those that aren't, aren't. And these numbers wouldn't change even if the way was harder over distances.

I do support the idea of contact just giving a generic echo though.

[RogueGunslinger]

So buff barrier and everyone is happy? I personally think master barrier shouldn't be broken, and should be much harder to master.

Currently Master contact can get through Master barrier on the first try... and that's rather useless.

[X-D]

I actually agree on that point too.

I think that at max, only a certain class should have reasonable ability to pass a barrier.

Other then that, the odds of passing max barrier even with max contact should be oh...around 1%.

[Bacon]

If one's contact and the other's barrier are equal in skill, then I think the difference between their wisdom should determine which is successful. All ties should go to the barrier end of it. A certain class should get a bonus that puts it over others of that class in those areas as well.

[My 2 sids]

The thing is, it's not just contacting people that is being abused.

If Bynners are known for twinking fighting skills,  aids and noblity twink out on the Way.   

How many times will there be two PCs chatting at a table when an elf/rinither/hooded PC steps into the room (a HUGE tavern actually) and suddenly these people sitting right next to one another have an entire conversation via the Way?   (Hint: more PCs have listen skill than can listen in on your Way conversation)

[RogueGunslinger]

The thing is, it's not just contacting people that is being abused.

If Bynners are known for twinking fighting skills,  aids and noblity twink out on the Way.   

How many times will there be two PCs chatting at a table when an elf/rinither/hooded PC steps into the room (a HUGE tavern actually) and suddenly these people sitting right next to one another have an entire conversation via the Way?   (Hint: more PCs have listen skill than can listen in on your Way conversation)

I'm not really seeing any problem, or twinkiness for that matter.

[kayza]

The thing is, it's not just contacting people that is being abused.

If Bynners are known for twinking fighting skills,  aids and noblity twink out on the Way.  

How many times will there be two PCs chatting at a table when an elf/rinither/hooded PC steps into the room (a HUGE tavern actually) and suddenly these people sitting right next to one another have an entire conversation via the Way?   (Hint: more PCs have listen skill than can listen in on your Way conversation)

I'm not really seeing any problem, or twinkiness for that matter.

It seems pretty fair to me also.  You can sneak and hide if you want to try to spy.  And nobody likes rinther they stink. 

[Kismetic]

There's a definite risk in using the Way, especially for high profile PCs like nobles.  Nothing twinky about it, though.

Furthermore, I don't think Bynners sparring all the time is that twinky (or really all that useful, but hey, who's counting?).  Bynners spar, scrub shit, and die.

Twinky is contacting someone to make sure they're not online so you can rob their apartment.  I think we've debated the crap out of this, though.  I want to bet this has even come up a dozen times before, too.

[FantasyWriter]

Lastly...what exactly does this add to the game? How will it improve enjoyment for a majority of the players? To those questions I come up with a big fat goose egg myself. I see only aggravation and annoyance. Specially to off peak players and leaders. And hey, lets just make life harder for those already taxing roles.

It opens up an entire new market for people to play messengers.  It encourages interaction with a larger portion of the playerbase.  Possibly more opportunity for raiders.  (city folk might actually run into a d-elf or two every now and again!
Since the messenger market will be there for intercity communication, it's could also become feasible INSIDE the cities. That means there will be people to deliver messages to those you can't reach due to play times.  If you want to avoid Way eavesdroppers, you have an option now, so long as you have a trustworthy messenger (untrustworthy messengers won't last long at all).

As far as people who have business in both cities, the one's important enough can read/write and communicate that way. (It's probably MUCH better for them to do so anyway, epspecially once a dependable system of PCs is in place. One GMH even has a COURRIER WAGON.  Last I saw, it was still parked in the same, out of the way place I left it about two years ago.  A perfect, built in plot for a sergeant/agent family member of that particular house.

It also adds opportunities for templars/badguys getting into folks business to stir up conflict (or find unknown allies as the case may be).

[X-D]

Alright, let us ignore how I actually feel about this idea for a moment.

Do you really think that is what would happen? I mean right now if you cannot reach somebody with the way you have two options, the first and most used is to wait and keep trying. The second is send a message, which happens a reasonable amount of time. But that message almost always consists of the same thing...Hey, if you see Malik, tell him I need to talk to him. And that would stay the same. Why, because the motto for arm is Murder, Corruption, BETRAYAL.

Nobody is going to trust a messenger with some secret message of any importance. But alright...let us assume I am wrong and the playerbase embraces this new system (HA!)...What about the classes that may or may not be able to spy on the way? You have just taken what very likely may amount to half the interaction and or fun that can be had with those classes.

And I do not think it encourages interaction, quite the opposite in fact.

Right now, Malik the nakki wants to talk with Amos the Northi, He simply does contact Amos.the.northie.
Your system, He has to get ahold of a messenger, trust the messenger with a message, pay the messenger and then wait who knows how long for the messenger to get to where Amos is, get ahold of Amos....then wait who knows how long for the messenger to return and maybe find you, assuming he did not die at some point and even let you know IF the message was delivered. In the end, Talking with Amos will likely not be worth while. Organizing many RPTs IG would be a total clusterfuck if not downright impossible.

Then there is the poor PC who gets stuck someplace, right now, they might die, but at least they can way for help. This is something that happens ALL THE TIME, and often leads to fun RP for multiple PCs....Your system...Nah, just certain death for the lost PC.

My suggestion is...if you still think it is a good idea, Special app a merchant and ask staff to remove the contact skill...and block incoming ways as well...it can be done. Then play that PC for at least 6 months or 30 days played, whichever comes first and see if you still think it is a good idea.

[Rhyden]

Currently Master contact can get through Master barrier on the first try... and that's rather useless.

This is not true.

[brytta.leofa]

Currently Master contact can get through Master barrier on the first try... and that's rather useless.

This is not true.

R, you just said that maxed barrier always beats maxed contact.

[Bast]

Im not sure I like this for contact but their should be range on some abilities I think. I would like this for contact but I agree with XD. I think it hurts the game more than it would help. Even If I feel it should likely have range.

[Rhyden]

Currently Master contact can get through Master barrier on the first try... and that's rather useless.

This is not true.

R, you just said that maxed barrier always beats maxed contact.

Master contact does not always get through master barrier on the first try.

If one's contact and the other's barrier are equal in skill, then I think the difference between their wisdom should determine which is successful. All ties should go to the barrier end of it. A certain class should get a bonus that puts it over others of that class in those areas as well.

And yeah, I believe this is already the case.