The Unseen Way and Distance

[FantasyWriter]

I wonder what the game would be like if one's ability to use the WAY was tied into their location.   Like if one is from 'nak, they can only use the Way in 'nak...   Or, if the Way could really only be used in locations X distance from the cities...  bet travel would become more interesting if one couldn't Way "this raiding party is lead by the one-eyed, swarthy man"

Rangers and messengers in Luir's would make lots of money, and the game would be much more interesting.
  I LOVE the idea.

Or the further you are from your contact the more broken up your message will become.

I wonder what the game would be like if one's ability to use the WAY was tied into their location.   Like if one is from 'nak, they can only use the Way in 'nak...   Or, if the Way could really only be used in locations X distance from the cities...  bet travel would become more interesting if one couldn't Way "this raiding party is lead by the one-eyed, swarthy man"

Rangers and messengers in Luir's would make lots of money, and the game would be much more interesting.
  I LOVE the idea.

As do I. Being a courier in a world like Zalanthas would be mountains of fun.

Brb, I'm apping for a Zalanthan Michael Strogoff.

Having the Way do a hybrid of either: (a) not work; (b) be much more taxing; and/or (c) cause broken up messages... the further you get from your target, would be neat.

However, that could also give your average joe the ability to figure out where a person is, a locate ability.

I like the idea, on paper. But in game, new character, trying to maybe way some dude to get into Clan A and getting nothing but fails while you sit and sit in the tavern and keep trying? Sucks.

In my experience, that happens anyway.

Same here.


It will also encourage people to travel around the city and ask for directions and locations of clan officials. It's not the destination, but the journey.

[FantasyWriter]

I like the idea, on paper. But in game, new character, trying to maybe way some dude to get into Clan A and getting nothing but fails while you sit and sit in the tavern and keep trying? Sucks.

Contacting anyone in the same city/zone would/could be left unaffected.

[My 2 sids]

Thanks for putting this all here FW.

[FantasyWriter]

You are welcome.

[Ktavialt]

Cue Nyr posting links to other threads about this exact topic in 3... 2... 1...  (haven't checked it personally yet)


... checked, so far nothing I could find via searching 'contact distance'

[FantasyWriter]

Cue Nyr posting links to other threads about this exact topic in 3... 2... 1...  (haven't checked it personally yet)


... checked, so far nothing I could find via searching 'contact distance'

Staff priorities change, player wants change, things are looked at from different point's of view over time.
Also, if you try posting in a thread that had not been posted in for an extended period of time (120 days, I think) the GDB encourages you to start a new thread.

Nyr generally only steps in when threads start going off topic or people start wining about not getting their cookies from staff when their cookies when and like they want them.
Or when people post in ATS the same questions over and over again.  As far as "Code Discussion," I doubt there is a topic posted in the last year that hasn't been brought up half a dozen times or more over the years.

[My 2 sids]

Exactly as FW says.

The Way functions ICly, but for more OOC reasons (players wanted to be able to communicate with other PCs in the short amount of time everyone is actually signed in)  So, this discussion is relevant because it's asking if the OOC needs are being met.

Seeing all the changes made to the cloaked figure feature and the addition of the barricade skill, perhaps there has been a changing of player needs.  Specifically, the ability to not have instant-communication between characters under some circumstances. 

[Kastion]

I like the idea the only problem I see with "postmen" is that 99% of the population cant read or write. How much "mail" would really be going out between cities? If literacy was available to everyone then this would be awesome.

[Riya OniSenshi]

No one is literally meaning letters - they're talking about relaying Way messages to people.

[Kastion]

No one is literally meaning letters - they're talking about relaying Way messages to people.

who in zalanthas would trust a random stranger with vital information to relay. Who would accept that information as accurate? A letter is stylized and usually has a seal or something on it to show its official. In a world like zalanthas I know I sure wouldnt trust some guys word that ive never met.


So by that you can just assume they would only use their own trusted employees. These employees would be virtual most likely and thus you can conclude that we allready do this even though you directly connect to the person when you are doing it currently.

[Riya OniSenshi]

That's sort of the point - it would make such a thing a new area for business to emerge, which would of course involve building reputation and such for being reliable and discreet. You may as well ask why people trust Nenyuk to hold their coin in a bank.


This has nothing to do with those that can send letters already, sealed or not.

[Kastion]

That's sort of the point - it would make such a thing a new area for business to emerge, which would of course involve building reputation and such for being reliable and discreet. You may as well ask why people trust Nenyuk to hold their coin in a bank.


This has nothing to do with those that can send letters already, sealed or not.

you are ignoring virtual npcs completely. PCs wouldnt be required at all even though they could do it. Templar A would relay his info to private A and private A would relay it to private B in the field who would then tell his commanding officer. We just skip all that by doing direct connection. All it would do is make a dumb barrier that wouldnt work because no one is gonna sit around 24 hours a day in luirs relaying messages across the known. You would rely on virtual pcs that are all over the place.

[Riya OniSenshi]

That's sort of the point - it would make such a thing a new area for business to emerge, which would of course involve building reputation and such for being reliable and discreet. You may as well ask why people trust Nenyuk to hold their coin in a bank.


This has nothing to do with those that can send letters already, sealed or not.

you are ignoring virtual npcs completely. PCs wouldnt be required at all even though they could do it. Templar A would relay his info to private A and private A would relay it to private B in the field who would then tell his commanding officer. We just skip all that by doing direct connection. All it would do is make a dumb barrier that wouldnt work because no one is gonna sit around 24 hours a day in luirs relaying messages across the known. You would rely on virtual pcs that are all over the place.

Wow... You just want to find things to troll about, huh?

I'm forgetting nothing of the sort. PCs don't generally get to rely on VNPCs for things, so there's no reason to assume (which is what you're doing) that should our distance with the Way be limited (which is what this thread is about) they would be allowed to use VNPC couriers/messengers.

[My 2 sids]

Bards.

In real life bards are the keeper of stories and messengers -- they are the "books" in illiterate societies.

[Kastion]

That's sort of the point - it would make such a thing a new area for business to emerge, which would of course involve building reputation and such for being reliable and discreet. You may as well ask why people trust Nenyuk to hold their coin in a bank.


This has nothing to do with those that can send letters already, sealed or not.

you are ignoring virtual npcs completely. PCs wouldnt be required at all even though they could do it. Templar A would relay his info to private A and private A would relay it to private B in the field who would then tell his commanding officer. We just skip all that by doing direct connection. All it would do is make a dumb barrier that wouldnt work because no one is gonna sit around 24 hours a day in luirs relaying messages across the known. You would rely on virtual pcs that are all over the place.

Wow... You just want to find things to troll about, huh?

I'm forgetting nothing of the sort. PCs don't generally get to rely on VNPCs for things, so there's no reason to assume (which is what you're doing) that should our distance with the Way be limited (which is what this thread is about) they would be allowed to use VNPC couriers/messengers.

trolling because i have an opinion that doesnt match with yours? mkay

Its stupid to assume that we couldnt rely on vnpcs for a simple task such as forwarding a message through the way. Nenyuk as in your example are all virtual and we use them just fine, it would be the same thing. Every clan relys on VNPCs for a variety of things, theres no reason to not assume that they could carry this out as well. If for some reason they werent allowed to do it then a clan would have to be created just to forward messages because no one is gonna keep up with what random dude is still around to forward a message. They die too fast, go inactive too much, and dont play enough to ever be reliable.

[My 2 sids]

who in zalanthas would trust a random stranger with vital information to relay. Who would accept that information as accurate? A letter is stylized and usually has a seal or something on it to show its official. In a world like zalanthas I know I sure wouldnt trust some guys word that ive never met.

A) hire messengers you trust

B) hire professional bards whose reputation of being able to get the job done and keep their nose clean is their livelihood.  

I mean, your argument seems to be one about trust.  But, I don't see how the trust is any different than what we have now:  have spies who give reports via the Way rather than in person.  

If houses are worried about their hunters, maybe they should have maps which clearly indicate where the house is hunting during certain times of the week/month/year

[Riya OniSenshi]

trolling because i have an opinion that doesnt match with yours? mkay

Whatever you got to tell yourself.  

[Nyr]

Shape up, guys.

[Kastion]

Virtual npcs would handle any information relaying needs unless the immortals say they could not function in that capacity. Direct connection could be interpreted as your original message has been relayed to your target through those vnpcs. The only way it would make any difference is if staff stated that vnpcs could not be used in this capacity and that players had to handle all relaying of information.


There I hope I clarified my point and you can see how it relates to this thread.

[FantasyWriter]

Virtual npcs would handle any information relaying needs unless the immortals say they could not function in that capacity. Direct connection could be interpreted as your original message has been relayed to your target through those vnpcs. The only way it would make any difference is if staff stated that vnpcs could not be used in this capacity and that players had to handle all relaying of information.


There I hope I clarified my point and you can see how it relates to this thread.

The problem with this is vNPCs can't betray you or sell your messages or get drunk and forget to deliver.  The only way for that to come about would be for staff to say that it is the way it is and let you know you had a chance of your messages being manipulated/sold by the messengers or having to worry about vNPC psionosist doing whatever it is that they can do to and with your messages.  IF they did, everyone would be screaming that staff were playing favorites with who they chose to "mess with," that in addition to the extra work load it would require would lead me to believe that its just not gonna happen.

You cannot expect to received the benefits of the virtual world without being willing to take on the risks of the same system.

[Jingo]

What is the point of the Way if you can't communicate over distances?

Don't tell me the reason we have the Way is actually just to send super sekrit messages to each other. AFIC this should be changed first of all.

[Desertman]

I like this idea for a few reasons, most of them already posted above.

This would make being a "messenger" an actual "thing" in game. Right now, this thing really doesn't exist. At least, it isn't widely used the way it would be without instant-cell-phone-world-wide-coverage the way we have it now.

The main reason I would like this to be implemented?

Literacy would suddenly become much more of a powerful tool than it currently is.

[Maso]

I don't really see a need to change the Way works. An adjustment in how people consider various forms of communication, however, would be nice.

Most Zalanthians would be brought up being told horror stories about powerful creatures such as mindworms, magickers and various other unknown forces...and I kind of feel that most often characters aren't played to be wary enough of these beings. Using the Way to talk super sekret stuff? You might as well hire a town crier to shout about it in the square. Discussing your super illegal spice trade upstairs in Reds? Expect someone to overhear it.

Nobles and Templars have a huge benefit from being literate. The ability to send messages to one another that have a much higher chance of not being intercepted is a great advantage. I just don't think it's one that is utilised enough. Or...quite possibly, it is just one that is utilised so well we don't know about it.

As always, more fear in the game please!

[kayza]

\
Most Zalanthians would be brought up being told horror stories about powerful creatures such as mindworms, magickers and various other unknown forces...and I kind of feel that most often characters aren't played to be wary enough of these beings. Using the Way to talk super sekret stuff? You might as well hire a town crier to shout about it in the square. Discussing your super illegal spice trade upstairs in Reds? Expect someone to overhear it.

I was wondering this myself.

How does the average Zalanthian feel about the way in general?  Is there a doc or another forum post on this.  Like what is the etiquette regarding it or whatnot.  Unless I"m blind, all the docs say about the Way is.. pretty much people can talk by it.   Is the fear that a psionic can possible read your mind something that will cause a Zalanthian to rather speak in person?

Basically any more information about the Way be great, or if someone can point me to it.  Be awesome!

Edited for terrible grammar.

[FantasyWriter]

To the nay-sayers: No one has said the Way would be made unavailable or unusable.
Only unable over great distances (something already taken into account in some ways.

My suggestion (skill levels curved to exclude psionocist levels):
     novice          - Limited to the same city/zone (Nak proper, Labyrith, Tuluk, Tablelands, Grasslands, etc.)
     apprentice   - Limited to the same city/zone, but nearly perfect contact within.
     journeyman - Perfect contact within your zone (similar to what the mundane maxes give now), crappy contact in adjacent zones.
                           (from Nak: Vrun Duraith, Red Storm and Salt flats with a good bit of difficulty ; Tuluk: Grasslands, Scrub, Forest)
                           (from Luirs: Gypo lands, Red Desert, Scrub, Tablelands with difficulty)
     advanced    - Adjacent Zones become Much easier to reach.  You can reach Nak and Tuluk from Luir and visa-versa with moderate effort.
     master         - A range of half the Known. Easy for Nak and Tuluk to reach Luirs and visa-versa.
                           (You MIGHT could reach one of the city states from the other, but at a great cost.)

[Spoon]

I like it how super-noobz will be able to find the Byn sergeant that way.

[Schrodingers Cat]

If the problem is that The Way is viewed as ultra reliable (too reliable) so that people can secretly communicate, maybe there's another solution, or deterrent.  Allowing for a chance that a way messages might be heard by nearby people seems like a better alternative as a deterrent (and could also cause a lot of interesting roleplay).  As a result people would want to seclude themselves when sending sensitive information over The Way.  It'd be much more like talking on the phone, as I imagine it was intended to be like.

To me, The Way seems like a way to simulate and facilitate interaction of the players, limiting communication through the way based on distance would limit interaction with those that need it the most (those outside the cities).  I think that's a bad thing.

[Maso]

If the problem is that The Way is viewed as ultra reliable (too reliable) so that people can secretly communicate,

Joke's on them. Because it's not...is it?

[Schrodingers Cat]

If the problem is that The Way is viewed as ultra reliable (too reliable) so that people can secretly communicate,

Joke's on them. Because it's not...is it?

Who knows. 

[Majikal]

I like the Way, I wish you'd she written communication used more between the literate and it gives the minions something to do and protect.. and opens for interesting venues of theft and other shenanigans. But onto the topic, I wish distance played a much larger roll in how hard it was to way people. Someone in tuluk psi'ing someone in Red Storm should seriously feel the mental hurt of it, as it stands it's really not all that bad at all.

[kayza]

Can you not speculate about what psionics chars can do please.  Like don't even mention it at all, please.

[Jingo]

If the problem is that The Way is viewed as ultra reliable (too reliable) so that people can secretly communicate,

Joke's on them. Because it's not...is it?

Only if the psionicist in question cares. Even then I doubt it'll stop anyone from planning your death with five others right in front of you.

[musashi]

I would not mind at all if distance played a much larger role in how difficult it is to contact someone over the Way. I am in support of that idea all the way. I would like to see it way harder to contact someone if they're far away from you, and cost way more stun to maintain the contact, and psi each message.

I feel like not only would it make literate correspondence a more often used tool of those who are literate, but it would also make it easier for those who wish to disappear ... to disappear.

I guess I feel like if your super badass whatever goes hiding in the farest flung reaches of the known and manages to survive the dangers there, he deserves not to be (easily) found. Nothing is more annoying when playing a wanted/hunted whatever than the 20 minute intervals of someone breaking through your barrier, contacting and withdrawing from your mind, juuuuust to check  

[Kismetic]

Amen.  I'm on board.  The Way is probably more abused than any one thing.

"Oh, I better not go fucking around.  Johnny Law is reachable via the Way!"

Or any other configuration of asshat usage.

[Lithium]

I would not mind at all if distance played a much larger role in how difficult it is to contact someone over the Way. I am in support of that idea all the way. I would like to see it way harder to contact someone if they're far away from you, and cost way more stun to maintain the contact, and psi each message.

I feel like not only would it make literate correspondence a more often used tool of those who are literate, but it would also make it easier for those who wish to disappear ... to disappear.

I guess I feel like if your super badass whatever goes hiding in the farest flung reaches of the known and manages to survive the dangers there, he deserves not to be (easily) found. Nothing is more annoying when playing a wanted/hunted whatever than the 20 minute intervals of someone breaking through your barrier, contacting and withdrawing from your mind, juuuuust to check  

QFT +1

[Gunnerblaster]

I like the idea of limiting range based upon mastery of the Way.

I mean, it's not like this shit is just some easy skill you suddenly master. It's the use of your brain. To send clean, coherent messages/thoughts to another individual's brain.

I've always thought it was a bit boring/annoying/unimaginative to be able to contact someone on the other side of the Known and have a nice little conversation about the weather.

First thing that comes to mind; though, if there was a restriction on distance per mastery level is the fact that scouts and rangers would suddenly be even more useful. Riding a good distance, then attempting to Way someone at an even further distance than usual.

This would be good to help protect raiders, as well. Managing to catch and stop a player long enough to roleplay out a mugging/raiding is hard enough; but having the problem of them insta-messaging a buddy for help, along with your description, etc. tends to prove fatal for most would-be raiders. Making increased distanced between Way targets increase the use of Stamina drain per message or drain over time could potentially leave victims in very vulnerable positions if they chanced using the Way.

[FantasyWriter]

.. but it would also make it easier for those who wish to disappear ... to disappear.

I guess I feel like if your super badass whatever goes hiding in the farest flung reaches of the known and manages to survive the dangers there, he deserves not to be (easily) found. Nothing is more annoying when playing a wanted/hunted whatever than the 20 minute intervals of someone breaking through your barrier, contacting and withdrawing from your mind, juuuuust to check  

Wow, I didn't think about it from that point of view.  This is now my favorite code want.

[RogueGunslinger]

Didn't we just advocate for getting contact buffed? Now we want it nerfed?  I say keep it how it is for the noobies.

[FantasyWriter]

It WILL be easier for noobies. Unless you started in a different location than you plan on.... trading, working, mind-sexxoring?
In my suggestion, you could have nearly perfect contact within your city after merely a few days played.

My suggestion (skill levels curved to exclude psionocist levels):
     novice          - Limited to the same city/zone (Nak proper, Labyrith, Tuluk, Tablelands, Grasslands, etc.)
     apprentice   - Limited to the same city/zone, but nearly perfect contact within.
     journeyman - Perfect contact within your zone (similar to what the mundane maxes give now), crappy contact in adjacent zones.
                           (from Nak: Vrun Duraith, Red Storm and Salt flats with a good bit of difficulty ; Tuluk: Grasslands, Scrub, Forest)
                           (from Luirs: Gypo lands, Red Desert, Scrub, Tablelands with difficulty)
     advanced    - Adjacent Zones become Much easier to reach.  You can reach Nak and Tuluk from Luir and visa-versa with moderate effort.
     master         - A range of half the Known. Easy for Nak and Tuluk to reach Luirs and visa-versa.
                           (You MIGHT could reach one of the city states from the other, but at a great cost.)
[/quote}

[musashi]

Yeah, I'm all for the newbies being able to locate the who's who of the clans they want to hook up with when they get in game, but they shouldn't need to way outside of their city for that, should they?

[Maso]

Yeah, I'm all for the newbies being able to locate the who's who of the clans they want to hook up with when they get in game, but they shouldn't need to way outside of their city for that, should they?

Newbs can barely Way inside their city as it is. :p

[RogueGunslinger]

Yeah, I'm all for the newbies being able to locate the who's who of the clans they want to hook up with when they get in game, but they shouldn't need to way outside of their city for that, should they?

Really depends on the clan. I've had to make treks from one city to another numerous times to get the job I wanted.

[Bacon]

Yeah, I'm all for the newbies being able to locate the who's who of the clans they want to hook up with when they get in game, but they shouldn't need to way outside of their city for that, should they?

Really depends on the clan. I've had to make treks from one city to another numerous times to get the job I wanted.

+1

[kayza]

Yeah, I'm all for the newbies being able to locate the who's who of the clans they want to hook up with when they get in game, but they shouldn't need to way outside of their city for that, should they?

Really depends on the clan. I've had to make treks from one city to another numerous times to get the job I wanted.

+1

+2

This is a good point and true.

[Kismetic]

Aww, poor newbies.  We should stop killing them

[Ktavialt]

I would not mind at all if distance played a much larger role in how difficult it is to contact someone over the Way. I am in support of that idea all the way. I would like to see it way harder to contact someone if they're far away from you, and cost way more stun to maintain the contact, and psi each message.

I feel like not only would it make literate correspondence a more often used tool of those who are literate, but it would also make it easier for those who wish to disappear ... to disappear.

I guess I feel like if your super badass whatever goes hiding in the farest flung reaches of the known and manages to survive the dangers there, he deserves not to be (easily) found. Nothing is more annoying when playing a wanted/hunted whatever than the 20 minute intervals of someone breaking through your barrier, contacting and withdrawing from your mind, juuuuust to check 

This is an AWESOME point.  I would sooooooo want contacting to be more difficult at a distance just for this very reason.

Yeah, I'm all for the newbies being able to locate the who's who of the clans they want to hook up with when they get in game, but they shouldn't need to way outside of their city for that, should they?

Really depends on the clan. I've had to make treks from one city to another numerous times to get the job I wanted.

+1

+2

This is a good point and true.

While also a good point, I think employers who want widespread recruitment should just have contacts in various cities.  There are boards in each city.  They can lead caravans between the cities.

Overall, Musashi's point completely outweighs the other imho.

Please imms... please please pleeeeeeease....

[kayza]

I would not mind at all if distance played a much larger role in how difficult it is to contact someone over the Way. I am in support of that idea all the way. I would like to see it way harder to contact someone if they're far away from you, and cost way more stun to maintain the contact, and psi each message.

I feel like not only would it make literate correspondence a more often used tool of those who are literate, but it would also make it easier for those who wish to disappear ... to disappear.

I guess I feel like if your super badass whatever goes hiding in the farest flung reaches of the known and manages to survive the dangers there, he deserves not to be (easily) found. Nothing is more annoying when playing a wanted/hunted whatever than the 20 minute intervals of someone breaking through your barrier, contacting and withdrawing from your mind, juuuuust to check 

This is an AWESOME point.  I would sooooooo want contacting to be more difficult at a distance just for this very reason.

Yeah, I'm all for the newbies being able to locate the who's who of the clans they want to hook up with when they get in game, but they shouldn't need to way outside of their city for that, should they?

Really depends on the clan. I've had to make treks from one city to another numerous times to get the job I wanted.

+1

+2

This is a good point and true.

While also a good point, I think employers who want widespread recruitment should just have contacts in various cities.  There are boards in each city.  They can lead caravans between the cities.

Overall, Musashi's point completely outweighs the other imho.

Please imms... please please pleeeeeeease....

My argument will be that you can't hide and the Way makes it so.  There is no running to the corner of the world and escaping, they can find you if they want.   They still have to get to you.

[Ktavialt]

My argument will be that you can't hide and the Way makes it so.  There is no running to the corner of the world and escaping, they can find you if they want.   They still have to get to you.

My belief is its still better if they can't just "contact xyz" to know that someone is around, alive and kicking.

[Maso]

You can always use barrier if you want to hide.

[Malken]

You can always use barrier if you want to hide.

Even at [master], my barrier is pretty lame

[FantasyWriter]

You can always use barrier if you want to hide.

Good point.  If you are in Allanak, it should take a LOT more effort to break through someone's barrier two days travel away that it does someone sitting at the bar with you.

[X-D]

Good point.  If you are in Allanak, it should take a LOT more effort to break through someone's barrier two days travel away that it does someone sitting at the bar with you.

How do you know it is not? That is information staff would never verify either way.

As to the idea of making the way harder over distance then it already may be....Um...NO.

You want to know what the first and end result to that would be?

Rampant OOC communications/coordination. Simple as that, people are lazy. As it stands we have a basically easy, reliable TRACKABLE IC way...being reliable and easy means people use it. Make it hard and unreliable and people simply will not, they will go to the easier method.

I am sure many, if not most players already talk to each other outside the game, but I also think they for the most part keep the IC...IG and the OOC OOG...and why, because right now it is easy to do.

Lastly...what exactly does this add to the game? How will it improve enjoyment for a majority of the players? To those questions I come up with a big fat goose egg myself. I see only aggravation and annoyance. Specially to off peak players and leaders. And hey, lets just make life harder for those already taxing roles.

[kayza]

X-D wins!

[Kismetic]

X-D wins! is playing a bender

Really, though, I just hate the Way.  It's a token convenience that is probably more abused than OOC/IC (do that many of you talk outside of the game/boards?) or any other single feature.

At its most basic, it stimulates RP opportunities, and that's about all I care for.  They're not gonna change this, though, so we're gonna have to keep on living with Dial-A-Target psionics.

Of course, I (and some others) would stop bitching if "A foreign presence contacts your mind." was replaced with "The tan, muscular man contacts your mind."

And you know, people used it for communication, rather than checking to see if you're online.

[Maso]

Well, either way.

There are a variety of tactics that can be successfully utilised to allow a character to disappear, fake death, whatever. I have done it. It's very possible.

Barrier is a good part of the equation.

[Kismetic]

I don't even care about the whole disappearing whatever.  Maybe I just attract that kind of player, but it happens a lot.  There was a time when I passed it off as accidental.  Sometimes, it probably is.  But I swear, it's the only thing in this game that gets under my skin.

Get PKed?  Haha, sure.  Laugh it off.  Move on.

Don't like my PC?  Good.

Obviously abusing OOC information?  File a complaint.  Note it in a report.

Crush my barrier and cease?  Really?  Are you fucking retarded?

I'm done ranting (and derailing), though.  I think adding an sdesc in the contact line would discourage that, but hey, maybe the staff want it this way for a reason.  Maybe there's some sekrit reason that people do it that I don't know about.  Whatevs.

[X-D]

Now, I have always been behind the ideas of how the contact messages themselves work.

As I have always been against way fishing for sdesc as well as way fishing to see if somebody is online.

Personally I think when you contact somebody with the way you should get "you find a mind" And the other person should just get the echo we already have. You should only get the sdesc on a psi...So your target would actually have to way you back for you to get the sdesc.

I think I will idea that IG, I bet that would take Morg or Ness or Tier like 30 seconds to change.

[Ktavialt]

Personally I think when you contact somebody with the way you should get "you find a mind" And the other person should just get the echo we already have. You should only get the sdesc on a psi...So your target would actually have to way you back for you to get the sdesc.

That's pretty neat, though I'd still prefer the changes discussed... at least its something.

[BadSkeelz]

As someone whose used the Way to put names to sdescs (and feels somewhat guilty doing so), I think one solution might be to change the Way so that instead of

Code Select Expand

contact Amos

you contact the tall, muscular man,

you get

Code Select Expand


contact Amos

you contact Amos

It's introduce a little uncertainty into the Way, though name overlap isn't anywhere as bad as sdesc keyword overlap.

[Maso]

Now, I have always been behind the ideas of how the contact messages themselves work.

As I have always been against way fishing for sdesc as well as way fishing to see if somebody is online.

Personally I think when you contact somebody with the way you should get "you find a mind" And the other person should just get the echo we already have. You should only get the sdesc on a psi...So your target would actually have to way you back for you to get the sdesc.

I think I will idea that IG, I bet that would take Morg or Ness or Tier like 30 seconds to change.

That would be pretty cool. I don't like the practice of 'fishing' much either.

However, I like to give people the benefit of the doubt. I reckon the majority of the time players contact/cease without saying anything...is usually because they have contacted the wrong person. I do it ALL the time. PC's share names and keywords quite frequently. So when my sekret Guild burglar accidentally contacts the big ferret-faced templar instead of the hot, ferret-faced whore...I'm just going to get the hell out of there without saying anything. Thankyouverymuch.

I also found recently with a new PC....that I was getting contact/ceased ALL THE FRICKING TIME. Yes, it was annoying as hell. But at this point...my PC didn't know anyone, she hadn't really seen anyone around who knew her sdesc or her name. She was a complete unknown. So all this attention...well...it must have been intended for someone else. So I figure...my new PC shares a rare keyword with a super popular character and let it go.

[Kismetic]

However, I like to give people the benefit of the doubt.

I would like to.  In the past, I've known there were legitimate mistaken identities.  I also know it's not always the case.  What would be cool is to eliminate the practice altogether.

+1, X-D

[musashi]

To the point about using barrier to hide, I don't think this is as viable an option as it once was, because now you can buff your contact attempt by using a character name and a string of keywords.

To X-D's slippery slope argument, I'm just not buying it. I don't believe that we're all pieces of untrustworthy poo who would cheat at the drop of a hat the moment something in the game inconveniences us even a little tiny bit. *shrug* Rather, I think those who plan things OOC'ly ... are already doing it. And those that aren't, aren't. And these numbers wouldn't change even if the way was harder over distances.

I do support the idea of contact just giving a generic echo though.

[RogueGunslinger]

So buff barrier and everyone is happy? I personally think master barrier shouldn't be broken, and should be much harder to master.

Currently Master contact can get through Master barrier on the first try... and that's rather useless.

[X-D]

I actually agree on that point too.

I think that at max, only a certain class should have reasonable ability to pass a barrier.

Other then that, the odds of passing max barrier even with max contact should be oh...around 1%.

[Bacon]

If one's contact and the other's barrier are equal in skill, then I think the difference between their wisdom should determine which is successful. All ties should go to the barrier end of it. A certain class should get a bonus that puts it over others of that class in those areas as well.

[My 2 sids]

The thing is, it's not just contacting people that is being abused.

If Bynners are known for twinking fighting skills,  aids and noblity twink out on the Way.   

How many times will there be two PCs chatting at a table when an elf/rinither/hooded PC steps into the room (a HUGE tavern actually) and suddenly these people sitting right next to one another have an entire conversation via the Way?   (Hint: more PCs have listen skill than can listen in on your Way conversation)

[RogueGunslinger]

The thing is, it's not just contacting people that is being abused.

If Bynners are known for twinking fighting skills,  aids and noblity twink out on the Way.   

How many times will there be two PCs chatting at a table when an elf/rinither/hooded PC steps into the room (a HUGE tavern actually) and suddenly these people sitting right next to one another have an entire conversation via the Way?   (Hint: more PCs have listen skill than can listen in on your Way conversation)

I'm not really seeing any problem, or twinkiness for that matter.

[kayza]

The thing is, it's not just contacting people that is being abused.

If Bynners are known for twinking fighting skills,  aids and noblity twink out on the Way.  

How many times will there be two PCs chatting at a table when an elf/rinither/hooded PC steps into the room (a HUGE tavern actually) and suddenly these people sitting right next to one another have an entire conversation via the Way?   (Hint: more PCs have listen skill than can listen in on your Way conversation)

I'm not really seeing any problem, or twinkiness for that matter.

It seems pretty fair to me also.  You can sneak and hide if you want to try to spy.  And nobody likes rinther they stink. 

[Kismetic]

There's a definite risk in using the Way, especially for high profile PCs like nobles.  Nothing twinky about it, though.

Furthermore, I don't think Bynners sparring all the time is that twinky (or really all that useful, but hey, who's counting?).  Bynners spar, scrub shit, and die.

Twinky is contacting someone to make sure they're not online so you can rob their apartment.  I think we've debated the crap out of this, though.  I want to bet this has even come up a dozen times before, too.

[FantasyWriter]

Lastly...what exactly does this add to the game? How will it improve enjoyment for a majority of the players? To those questions I come up with a big fat goose egg myself. I see only aggravation and annoyance. Specially to off peak players and leaders. And hey, lets just make life harder for those already taxing roles.

It opens up an entire new market for people to play messengers.  It encourages interaction with a larger portion of the playerbase.  Possibly more opportunity for raiders.  (city folk might actually run into a d-elf or two every now and again!
Since the messenger market will be there for intercity communication, it's could also become feasible INSIDE the cities. That means there will be people to deliver messages to those you can't reach due to play times.  If you want to avoid Way eavesdroppers, you have an option now, so long as you have a trustworthy messenger (untrustworthy messengers won't last long at all).

As far as people who have business in both cities, the one's important enough can read/write and communicate that way. (It's probably MUCH better for them to do so anyway, epspecially once a dependable system of PCs is in place. One GMH even has a COURRIER WAGON.  Last I saw, it was still parked in the same, out of the way place I left it about two years ago.  A perfect, built in plot for a sergeant/agent family member of that particular house.

It also adds opportunities for templars/badguys getting into folks business to stir up conflict (or find unknown allies as the case may be).

[X-D]

Alright, let us ignore how I actually feel about this idea for a moment.

Do you really think that is what would happen? I mean right now if you cannot reach somebody with the way you have two options, the first and most used is to wait and keep trying. The second is send a message, which happens a reasonable amount of time. But that message almost always consists of the same thing...Hey, if you see Malik, tell him I need to talk to him. And that would stay the same. Why, because the motto for arm is Murder, Corruption, BETRAYAL.

Nobody is going to trust a messenger with some secret message of any importance. But alright...let us assume I am wrong and the playerbase embraces this new system (HA!)...What about the classes that may or may not be able to spy on the way? You have just taken what very likely may amount to half the interaction and or fun that can be had with those classes.

And I do not think it encourages interaction, quite the opposite in fact.

Right now, Malik the nakki wants to talk with Amos the Northi, He simply does contact Amos.the.northie.
Your system, He has to get ahold of a messenger, trust the messenger with a message, pay the messenger and then wait who knows how long for the messenger to get to where Amos is, get ahold of Amos....then wait who knows how long for the messenger to return and maybe find you, assuming he did not die at some point and even let you know IF the message was delivered. In the end, Talking with Amos will likely not be worth while. Organizing many RPTs IG would be a total clusterfuck if not downright impossible.

Then there is the poor PC who gets stuck someplace, right now, they might die, but at least they can way for help. This is something that happens ALL THE TIME, and often leads to fun RP for multiple PCs....Your system...Nah, just certain death for the lost PC.

My suggestion is...if you still think it is a good idea, Special app a merchant and ask staff to remove the contact skill...and block incoming ways as well...it can be done. Then play that PC for at least 6 months or 30 days played, whichever comes first and see if you still think it is a good idea.

[Rhyden]

Currently Master contact can get through Master barrier on the first try... and that's rather useless.

This is not true.

[brytta.leofa]

Currently Master contact can get through Master barrier on the first try... and that's rather useless.

This is not true.

R, you just said that maxed barrier always beats maxed contact.

[Bast]

Im not sure I like this for contact but their should be range on some abilities I think. I would like this for contact but I agree with XD. I think it hurts the game more than it would help. Even If I feel it should likely have range.

[Rhyden]

Currently Master contact can get through Master barrier on the first try... and that's rather useless.

This is not true.

R, you just said that maxed barrier always beats maxed contact.

Master contact does not always get through master barrier on the first try.

If one's contact and the other's barrier are equal in skill, then I think the difference between their wisdom should determine which is successful. All ties should go to the barrier end of it. A certain class should get a bonus that puts it over others of that class in those areas as well.

And yeah, I believe this is already the case.

[RogueGunslinger]

Well, I didn't say always. Just said it can.

[Dalmeth]

Let's look at it this way : how about we increase the strength of barrier with distance?  Yeah?  Sounds good, right?

[Delirium]

Let's look at it this way : how about we increase the strength of barrier with distance?  Yeah?  Sounds good, right?

Elegant. I like it.

[MeTekillot]

What if, like, Zalanthan minds act like cell-phone towers ( i don't think this is how cell towers work but entertain my metaphor/simile )


and the further you are from a group of people, the harder it is to contact you.

but if there are people between you and the guy trying to contact you, contacting you is easier???

[Creslin]

May have been brought up already but the problem with something like this is that the zone lines would screw it all up. Good example, heading half-way to Red Storm - people can be 1 room away from each other and be in different zones. It's also possible that certain "areas" use multiple attached zones while still being considered one area.

They would have to use a modified version of Diku/Circle mobile tracking code to determine the number of rooms away a target is when the "contact" connection is made and based it on total number of rooms away instead of what zone you are in. This can be incredibly taxing code-wise to do frequently though...

Let's look at it this way : how about we increase the strength of barrier with distance?  Yeah?  Sounds good, right?

Again, would have to use code that traverses a path between characters to determine the number of rooms between them, like mobile tracking that Diku/Circle use, and base this on total rooms away but again if done very frequently can be taxing on the MUD.

[kayza]

Perhaps the Way just is not affected by distance.  That seems pretty plausible to me if you are trying to argue that it should be for IC reasons.

[Ktavialt]

May have been brought up already but the problem with something like this is that the zone lines would screw it all up. Good example, heading half-way to Red Storm - people can be 1 room away from each other and be in different zones. It's also possible that certain "areas" use multiple attached zones while still being considered one area.

This can be partially alleviated by making the barrier strength amplifier for adjacent zones minimal... i.e. it really kicks in when its two zones away.

[RogueGunslinger]

Perhaps the Way just is not affected by distance.  That seems pretty plausible to me if you are trying to argue that it should be for IC reasons.

It already is affected by distance.

[kayza]

Perhaps the Way just is not affected by distance.  That seems pretty plausible to me if you are trying to argue that it should be for IC reasons.

It already is affected by distance.

Well fine : p

[AdamBlue]

If you really think about it, the Way is the reason that civilzation in Armageddon hasn't advanced farther, education-wise.
The need for written language arose due to the need to tell someone a message from far away that you cannot immediately talk to. Far away also accounts for time, as stories written down were first made so that those who read it in the future could take the advice and enjoyment from the stories and improve their own lives.

The range of scopes of the uses for language can be as simple as a shopping list, to a poet for a lady you wish to tickle your fancy with but cannot let her father know in the night, to a general sending a message to a sect of the army in his own words and specifying what exactly to do. People found uses for literature far greater then the original want.

The Way breaks everything.

Why do you need to get a messenger boy to tell a friend to say hello? Just contact him. That damsel caught your fancy? 'contact the big-titted, childbearing-hipped broad' and 'psi Hey baby, how about I show you how I thrust with my steak sabre/pork sword/salami stiletto/ribeye rapier?'

With the Way, if you wanna tell someone a story, CONTACT THEM. CONTACT ANYONE YOU WANT. Wanna meet new people? Contact black-haired. Contact girl. Contact muscular. You wanna scream at someone? CONTACT FUCKNUTS. PSI FUCK YOU. CEASE.
Sure, this may get you killed,  but you can still DO IT.
Just a thought.

[Nyr]

The Way works the way it works.  Unfortunately I can't really elaborate on that as it is an IC phenomenon.  We can look at things like "hey, is it too hard for newbies to contact people?"  (we did in the past)  We can also look at things like "hey, are these skillchecks working right?" on our side.  When it gets down into "hey, can we alter or discuss the IC fabric of what the Way is, even if the fabric of what the Way is is actually based on the code itself?" we get into the "...we can't give you an answer on that, please find out IC" territory.