Weapons in taverns

[Reiloth]

Am I the only one that finds it really annoying to walk into a tavern, with weapons in your hands, and for everyone in the room to notice and tell you to put them away, as if it was their duty (Well, templars are different, but yeah)

I would think that in a world like Zalanthas, no one would care if a sweaty hard-ass walked in with his weapons out.

In fact I think it would make even less sense for a complete stranger to approach you and 'kindly' tell you to put them away.

This is from past experiences, just sparked my mind today.

-Reiloth

[mansa]

What about the times when you forget that you're wielding your longknife?

That happens to me, a bunch...  (longknife...poleaxe....tube of spice)

I think some people are just nice, trying to remind you that, "oh, hey.  i'm 'wielding' my weapon."

And sometimes...it's other reasons...  That I'm sure other people will bring up.

But my reason is for the little polite people who want to help remind you that you're weapon is out, when you forget!

[Rindan]

In the major cities, weapons are not all that common.  Most people are not mercenaries or soldiers.  Hence, walking around with a weapon is not really all that common.  The bigger issue is that having a weapon out in the cities is a sign that there is trouble.  It is a violent world, so when people are sitting down to enjoy a drink, the last thing they want to see is some guy with his two obsidian swords pointing at everyone.  There is no reason for someone to be flaunting their weapons unless they intend to use them.  The only real exception to this is when a very large weapon is involved.  The line becomes a little grayer, because the person in question could simply just have no other place to stick it.

The point is that there is no need to have a weapon out unless you intend to use it.  So, if you walk in some place with a weapon out, and you are not guarding someone, people want to know why you are acting so threatening.  They make it their business because they don't want some guy walking around with two very sharp rocks in a crowded place, even if he has no intentions to use them.

Another reason why weapons are not allowed to be displayed in public in any other place then a sheath is that having a weapon out is power.  In the city states, the people who have the power want to make sure everyone knows they are the ones with the power.  If any idiot could walk into a tavern with their weapons held at ready, it diminishes the minor prestige they get for being the only ones.  If you see someone in wielding a weapon, and they are not a noble or templar in Allanak or the North, then they are a militiaman, or a guard for a noble house or merchant house.  These positions hold a minor level of prestige in commoner circles.  Commoners are not all exactly of the same class.  Within commoner circles there are minor classes.  The difference is not nearly as big as between a noble and a commoner, but the difference is there.

People in Allanak and the North uphold the social order.  The average citizen does not step too far out of place.  Matters of class and prestige are of great concern.  If fear for one's life is not a reason to make sure that only people who are allowed to wield weapons wield them, then simply seeking to uphold the social order is.

[Bestatte]

First of all, I misread the title of the thread on first glance and thought it was "Wagons in Taverns" and I was going to say something clever and witty. I feel very deprived now.

On to the topic at hand:

I'm not sure about the north, but in the south, it is -illegal- to be wielding a weapon inside the city walls unless you are a) in the Militia or b) defending yourself from someone OTHER than the Militia/templarate/nobility.

If you are not Militia, or nobility or a Templar, then you are not allowed to walk through the gates with your weapons wielded. The fact that the militia NPCs don't notice is a quirk in the code, IMO, and not any "permission in absentia."

Even NPC guards of merchants and the wealthy aren't supposed to be wielding, but some of them don't have sheaths and their employers are not able to order them to put the weapons away. That is also a quirk in the code, IMO, which should either be forgiven or remedied.

Each city-state and each village and each outpost has its own rules, some being more lax than others on wielding weapons within their walls. But they are the rules, and if you don't want to abide by them that' fine - as long as you're prepared to deal with the consequences.

[WarriorPoet]

My reasoning is that my characters are usually paranoid, and/or have alot of enemies who would be most pleased to see my head rolling across that tavern floor. Some maniac wandering around waving thier swords is liable to set me off, and fast. Better that I ask you to put them away than me having out with my own swords and causing a mess over what could be an OOC mistake...

On that note, I think Bestatte and Rindan hit it right on in saying that the everyday commoner should NOT be wandering around with his weapons out, just because they feel like it.

I don't have two 'sid, so that'll have to do...

[Delirium]

It is (or should be) commonly known that in the North, "weapons are not to be wielded in a threatening manner in public by any except bodyguards of the Great Merchant Houses, the Chosen, and the Faithful."

I.E. if you're a commoner, unless you're a bodyguard that's actively guarding for a Merchant or a Noble house, you will normally get one warning before being fined or tossed in jail for having a drawn weapon.

[Angela Christine]

Why do people speak up?  Because doing the IC appropriate thing would be over-reacting if it is just an OOC mistake, which it usually is.  ICly you don't just forget that you are holding a large object in your hand, but unless you regularily check your inventory a player might not notice those weapons in his character's hands.

What is IC appropriate?  Well, in RL if someone came into a cafe or bar waving a weapon in their hand, or in both hands, it is going to cause a stir.  I would assume they are crazy or a criminal, if they went on to sit at the counter and order a drink I'd lean toward crazy.  I'd probably try to leave, and then call the police.  I think it would be IC for everyone in the tavern to get to their feet, for armed patrons to draw their weapons in anticipation of an attack, and for non-combat characters to attempt to leave the area and/or summon local law enforcement.

But that would be a big hassle, making a major event over the fact that someone "didn't notice" they were holding a sword in each hand.  So I'll usually try something like, "Hey there, you should put that sword away before a soldier nocies you" or "Ale and axes don't mix to well, do you really need those things in here?"  It's mildly stupid, but most of the time it is better than a "realistic" reaction to someone casually waving deadly weapons around.

AC

[Cuusardo]

Who would you rather asked you to put your weapon away:

A drunken tavern patron who says 'Hey Felleh, you really should put your shword away before a templar sees yeh."

or

A rabid templar who glares at you coldly and exclaims 'Put that weapon away right now, or I will shove my foot so far up your ass you'll be sneezing goudra leather for a year!"

[flurry]

I think part of the reason people might get OOCly annoyed by being asked to put weapons away might be this...

Probably almost everyone goes through those awkward first hours/days when you walk into taverns and get hammered with IC questions like

Why do you have your weapons out?  
Why are you talking so loudly?
Why are you sitting on the floor?
Why are you bleeding all over the place?
Why do you keep running at full speed through the tavern!?
and of course
Why aren't you wearing any pants?


These are good to correct newbiesque behavior in people just learning the game and also to show that such things are handled ICly when possible.


Once you've passed this stage and learned all this, but just have a mental lapse and forget OOCly that you're wielding a weapon, I think it's natural to feel a bit OOCly annoyed.   (Inside you're thinking "I'm not a n00b!  You don't have to correct me!")    That's OOC - but IC I think it makes perfect sense to react if you see someone in a tavern with drawn weapons.

[Rindan]

Whenever I forget to sheath my weapon, I tend to come up with a decent cover excuse that doesn't make me look like a complete moron.  I always feel stupid saying 'oh gee, I forgot'.  When someone points out that I have a smaller weapon out, like a knife or a dagger, I emote that I was either picking my nails clean, cutting off an old bandage, giving it a quick wipe across my cloak to clean it, or perhaps inspecting it for damage.  For larger weapons, I either emote that I was cleaning the weapon or inspecting it for damage.  It saves you the trouble of saying something ICly silly for your character like, "oh gee, forgot 4 foot long obsidian rod in my hand", and it makes the scene flow a little smoother.

[Nineveh]

I've been playing Armageddon for close to a couple years now and I still get asked why the hell I'm not wearing pants.

Oh.. you mean in game. Nevermind.

*goes back to her box*

[Cuusardo]

If getting reminded is really that annoying, it's likely you'll not forget very often.

[Reiloth]

Thanks for the feedback.

As someone said, yes, I feel OOC'ly annoyed because I do cry out "No! I'm not a newbie...or am I?" really loud in my head, and its annoying to see everyone say to you "Put your weapons away". It IC'ly probably makes sense, upon rethinking it. Usually, i'll realize the weapons are out right when I enter the tavern, and i'm mid-emoting wiping them on my pants or sheathing them, when someone stands from their table and says blah blah blah, put your weapons away.

I know that its IC, but its still weird that everyone feels the need to tell someone to put their weapons away.

Thanks Rindan for the insight, I really appreciated your post inparticular.

[Carnage]

Like Rindan, I usually try to make up excuses too. Something like getting whacked in the head. Hard. Usually having weapons wielded is due to an OOC mistake. I was in a clan where hardly anyone was around yet I was required to spar everyday. In my haste to leave the second I saw it was time I would sometimes forget that I still had my training weapons equipped. It was only when I ICly got really chewed out by a superior for having them that I started taking more notice and putting them away.

[Anonymous]

I know that its IC, but its still weird that everyone feels the need to tell someone to put their weapons away.

Picture the old west.  If some cowboy came into a tavern with his gun drawn, people would be expecting trouble.

Next, picture some old gunfighter in the tavern 'kindly' suggesting that the person who just walked in with his gun drawn might want to put it away.

Now, as this old gunfighter is 'kindly' suggesting it, he's also slipped his shooting hand down to rest on his gun.

That's how I always rationalize it when people warn me about having weapons out.

And it is probably the most embarrassing thing that can happen in this game.

say (As he looks down at the giant polearm clutched in both hands) Holy shit, I forgot that was there.

[Ayashah]

Another way to remind someone they are holding a weapon instead of saying something is to emote after a look. GRANTED, when I do something like that I can guarantee almost every pc in the room will all of a sudden use the look command at that pc. BUT they probably would do the same if I said something. But looking is less 'up in your face' than putting someone on the spot to answer by asking.

look knife-wielding maniac

emote glancing at the knife-wielding maniac, @ shifts the chair back nervously while never her gaze remains on %maniac weapons.

[Twilight]

I remember playing a guard to a noble, and having this happen all the time.  Person wanders into the tavern, both weapons out.  My character looks at them.  My character stands, I type guard noble, and I draw both my weapons.  After awhile, my employer asked my character to just politely ask the other person to put the weapons away, and then draw his if they didn't.  Personally I liked to just draw them.

So, there might actually be IC reasons behind something like that.