Saving lives syntax?

[greasygemo]

How the heck do you save a person who is down? (fainted or mortally wounded, for example)

Do you <subdue> and <throw> their limp body from room to room??

Can you pick them up?

Can you pack them to a mount? (lol)

[Patuk]

If you subdue someone, they come along with you when you move from room to room. It's what the Allanaki soldiers complain about so much.

[Barsook]

Not unless you have no save arrest on.

[greasygemo]

Ah.... So if you ARE dying and have companions.. you should should turn that SHIT OFF.
..Dammit.

[RogueGunslinger]

Huh?

Nosave arrest makes it so that when you commit a crime, you don't resist a soldiers attempt to subdue you. Nosave subdue makes it so that no matter what you will not resist a subdue attempt, and no criminal charges will be put against the person that subdues you. Someone who is unconcious (or stunned unable to move/near death) has nosave subdue on by default.

There's no need for nosave arrest, or making sure someone has nosave subdue on, during these instances.

[Barsook]

Oh right, that's what I meant.

[Nyr]

Huh?

Nosave arrest makes it so that when you commit a crime, you don't resist a soldiers attempt to subdue you. Nosave subdue makes it so that no matter what you will not resist a subdue attempt, and no criminal charges will be put against the person that subdues you. Someone who is unconcious (or stunned unable to move/near death) has nosave subdue on by default.

There's no need for nosave arrest, or making sure someone has nosave subdue on, during these instances.

...actually...

[RogueGunslinger]

Oh right, that's what I meant.

[Nyr]

Bottom line:

If you want to help someone (by subduing them) that needs help, the onus is on them to turn on nosave subdue.  Feel free to remind them of this via OOC if it happens to come up in-game.

[RogueGunslinger]

Think I'll just kindly put people out of their misery from now on.

* RogueGunslinger steps on %amos neck, applying steady pressure until the writhing stops.

[Patuk]

I.. I could troll so many people with this, it would be hilarious.

Code Select Expand


'hey lol is ur nosave subdue on'

'yeah sure drag me away'

A half-giant soldier of Tektolnes has arrived from the east.
A half-giant soldier of Tektolnes has arrived from the east.
A half-giant soldier of Tektolnes has arrived from the east.
A half-giant soldier of Tektolnes has arrived from the east.
A half-giant soldier of Tektolnes has arrived from the east.
A half-giant soldier of Tektolnes has arrived from the east.

[RogueGunslinger]

And then die a slow, painful death as your only savior is carried away?

[Twilight]

Someone says OOC'ly 'I know I just sapped you but now I need you to turn off nosave subdue.  Let me know when done, kthanks?'

[Maso]

Yeah...maybe it should just be changed so that you don't become wanted when you subdue someone unconscious (or really drunk). That seems a lot simpler. The cities are way too safe. >.>

[RogueGunslinger]

Yeah...maybe it should just be changed so that you don't become wanted when you subdue someone unconscious (or really drunk). That seems a lot simpler. The cities are way too safe. >.>

Well, what if you don't want to be subdued and carried away? You think a lawman is just going to watch someone get kidnapped?

[Patuk]

Yeah...maybe it should just be changed so that you don't become wanted when you subdue someone unconscious (or really drunk). That seems a lot simpler. The cities are way too safe. >.>

Well, what if you don't want to be subdued and carried away? You think a lawman is just going to watch someone get kidnapped?

The echoes in the Gaj say yes.

Really, though, picture these three situations:

Not resisting subdue, wide awake, my buddy subdues me and drags me off because of some joke/I'm just that lazy. Guards don't care, obviously.

Resisting subdue, someone tries to drag me off, but trying to resist it, I kick and scream and cry for help and the guards cut the guy down. Still makes sense.

Unconscious and subdued by someone. Even though he's a rinther out for my money, he goes: 'naw it's fine he's my bro, imma carry him home now'

[Dar]

To be honest. I am puzzled the hell out on this. Is this a recent code change? I am "positive" I've dragged off a few people from the tavern into the sleeping chamber when they passed out from drink or Way. I didnt ask to have no subdue, I just did it and did not get arrested.

[Morgenes]

To be honest. I am puzzled the hell out on this. Is this a recent code change? I am "positive" I've dragged off a few people from the tavern into the sleeping chamber when they passed out from drink or Way. I didnt ask to have no subdue, I just did it and did not get arrested.

Nope, if you did it and got away with it, they must have had nosave subdue on.

[MeTekillot]

Lots of people sure have been leaving "nosave subdue" on, then.

[Is Friday]

Yeah... I have done this 10-20x's within the past year.

[The Lonely Hunter]

If you are unconscious how can the lawman tell if you want to be hauled away or not anyway?

[Booya]

I've been hauled somewhere when passed out drunk without messing with nosaves, with no penalty to the hauler. (They were at whatever the default is.)

[Nyr]

If you are unconscious how can the lawman tell if you want to be hauled away or not anyway?

We judge the benefit to protecting any given player from other abusive players that do not have crim-immunity to be greater than the detriment to player immersion.

[Potaje]

When I was in Tor I hauled off a Drunk passed out malitia soldier.. back to the AOD barracks. I'm pretty certain we never ooced the nosave subdue, and by general practice most soldiers were not kept nosave subdue on.

This was from the Gaj.

[edited to add] I thought that you only got crime flagged if there was resistance and a struggle. Most passed out pc's would then be prone, and so more than not, likely to get insta subdued by the subduer. I think in this many of us players are drawing our perspective.

Though I think staff is saying its not 100% safe, there could be that one time someone fumble/fails and the passed out person may squirm away. Thus crim coding the pc attempting the subdue.

[Patuk]

When I was in Tor

Mystery solved.

[Nyr]

I really get a kick out of explaining how things actually work based on a knowledge of the code and a discussion with a coder.  There's always someone to reply with anecdotal evidence that (in fact) the opposite is true.

edit to add:  as a result I end up testing things over and over in order to definitively arrive at a conclusion to explain the anecdotal cases

[Nyr]

[Maso]

I get really confused by the whole 'no save' thing....like...should I have it on...or off...double negatives confuse me. Can someone lay it down for me...in lamens terms...the help file doesn't help. Not because it's bad, not because it's particularly complicated, not because I'm dumb, but just because...for some reason it makes my brain squirm uncomfortably when I try and get it.

[Nyr]

Type nosave status.
Then type nosave on any of those things to enable or disable it.
Type nosave status again.

There ya go!  No need to read any more than the stuff in "nosave status."

[Maso]

I still don't understand....

nosave arrest....if it's enabled does that mean I am resisting arrest? Or not? Sorry.

I did read it...I read it all the time!

[solera]

I get really confused by the whole 'no save' thing....like...should I have it on...or off...double negatives confuse me. Can someone lay it down for me...in lamens terms...the help file doesn't help. Not because it's bad, not because it's particularly complicated, not because I'm dumb, but just because...for some reason it makes my brain squirm uncomfortably when I try and get it.

Me too.
I have to say to myself...
nosave arrest = i do not save myself from arrest
therefore
I will let myself be arrested
and
I won't die.

[Nyr]

Did you type nosave status?  Nosave status tells you exactly what is going on.
Did you then change something?  If you change something, the game tells you what you changed.
Did you then type nosave status again?  If you type nosave status again, it tells you exactly what is going on, again, just in case you didn't understand what happened when you changed it.

[timb]

If you want to do some petty crime and not get killed by a giant have nosave arrest  on.
If you don't want to take a sap to the head and get pulled into an alley having your things taken and body abused (next time you lose internet and go link dead) have nosave arrest off?

Cant have your cake and eat it too?

[Patuk]

Did you type nosave status?  Nosave status tells you exactly what is going on.
Did you then change something?  If you change something, the game tells you what you changed.
Did you then type nosave status again?  If you type nosave status again, it tells you exactly what is going on, again, just in case you didn't understand what happened when you changed it.

This. Nosave status is way less confusing than the double negatives. For example.. Instead of saying 'nosave arrest is on' it says 'not resisting arrest.'

[Maso]

Ahh, I shall have a play with it and see then. Thanks.

Glad I'm not the only one who gets confused though!

[Delirium]

To make it simpler, just translate "nosave" into "not saving against"

"Nosave arrest" = Not saving against arrest
"Nosave subdue" = Not saving against subdue

Etc, etc.

Timb, nosave arrest is for submitting to soldiers after becoming incriminated. Nosave subdue is for when you don't want to resist subdue attempts at all.

[Maso]

It would be so much easier if they removed the no and made it the other way around... Saving from arrest? Yes.

Double negatives! Pfft! So in order to 'save yourself' from something...you have to disable the no save...I think?

[Riya OniSenshi]

To "save" against an action is to take a roll to resist it. It's fairly standard in most all dice-involved rpg things. Thus "nosave" means you are intentionally failing to resist the specified action.

[Nyr]

I'll just copy and paste since you're still asking questions about it:

Code Select Expand

= >nosave   
You must provide one of the following toggles:
  status : Show status of nosave options (this message)
     off : Attempt all saving throws.
     all : Fail all saving throws.
  arrest : Resisting arrest.
   climb : Not intentionally failing at climbing.
  magick : Resisting magickal spells.
psionics : Resisting psionic abilities.
  skills : Resisting mundane skills.
  subdue : Resisting subdue attempts.
   theft : Resisting theft attempts.
  combat : Attacking back when attacked.

Code Select Expand


= >nosave arrest
You are not resisting arrest.

Code Select Expand


= >nosave status                                                                                     
  arrest : Not resisting arrest.
   climb : Not intentionally failing at climbing.
  magick : Resisting magickal spells.
psionics : Resisting psionic abilities.
  skills : Resisting mundane skills.
  subdue : Resisting subdue attempts.
   theft : Resisting theft attempts.
  combat : Attacking back when attacked.

Semantics aside, you just need to keep track of what it tells you, not what you think nosave means or should mean.

As a side note, this breakdown has been this way for more than 6 years.  It seems like it was only yesterday!

[Maso]

 

[Nyr]

...did you not find that post useful, or what?  I can't tell if you're trying to channel some snarkiness, are genuinely confused, or selected the wrong emoticon.

[Maso]

It was useful yes. But I had already kinda got it...hadn't I? Probably just needed a 'Yup' rather than a whole copy/paste...unless I hadn't got it.

Not snarky no, genuine confusion and feeling a bit sheepish, whilst also a little bit amused. Not a particularly wide variety of emoticons to pick from though.

[Rhyden]

It was useful yes. But I had already kinda got it...hadn't I? Probably just needed a 'Yup' rather than a whole copy/paste...unless I hadn't got it.

Not snarky no, genuine confusion and feeling a bit sheepish, whilst also a little bit amused. Not a particularly wide variety of emoticons to pick from though.

Here's a good one ----->  Also another helpful phrase after someone helpfully explain something to you -----> Thanks   (You have no idea how far a smiley + a thank you can go, especially for staff)

The double negative of "nosave" confused me at first too. As Delirium said, the easiest way is to spell it out: I will not save against subdue. I will not save against arrest. Etc.

[Maso]

It was useful yes. But I had already kinda got it...hadn't I? Probably just needed a 'Yup' rather than a whole copy/paste...unless I hadn't got it.

Not snarky no, genuine confusion and feeling a bit sheepish, whilst also a little bit amused. Not a particularly wide variety of emoticons to pick from though.

Here's a good one ----->   Also another helpful phrase after someone helpfully explain something to you -----> Thanks   (You have no idea how far a smiley + a thank you can go, especially for staff)

The double negative of "nosave" confused me at first too. As Delirium said, the easiest way is to spell it out: I will not save against subdue. I will not save against arrest. Etc.

Sigh. Why do so many people feel the need to be condescending and patronizing on this board. If someone is helpful, I am aware that I can say thank you...If someone is helpful in a patronizing manner...then it makes me feel less like saying thank you and more like shaking my head sadly and wondering what's with all the high horses. I am capable of making that decision for myself, ta very much though.

[Lithium]

It was useful yes. But I had already kinda got it...hadn't I? Probably just needed a 'Yup' rather than a whole copy/paste...unless I hadn't got it.

Not snarky no, genuine confusion and feeling a bit sheepish, whilst also a little bit amused. Not a particularly wide variety of emoticons to pick from though.

Here's a good one ----->   Also another helpful phrase after someone helpfully explain something to you -----> Thanks   (You have no idea how far a smiley + a thank you can go, especially for staff)

The double negative of "nosave" confused me at first too. As Delirium said, the easiest way is to spell it out: I will not save against subdue. I will not save against arrest. Etc.

Sigh. Why do so many people feel the need to be condescending and patronizing on this board. If someone is helpful, I am aware that I can say thank you...If someone is helpful in a patronizing manner...then it makes me feel less like saying thank you and more like shaking my head sadly and wondering what's with all the high horses. I am capable of making that decision for myself, ta very much though.

The only one who's coming off as condescending and on a high horse is yourself. Nyr spent a few posts thoroughly explaining something you were having trouble with. Just like he does for every other player. Your response?  () I certainly would -not- want to help anyone after that, yet he still does it, unbiased, informative, thorough, helpful, and asking nothing in return.

[Nyr]

Sigh. Why do so many people feel the need to be condescending and patronizing on this board. If someone is helpful, I am aware that I can say thank you...If someone is helpful in a patronizing manner...then it makes me feel less like saying thank you and more like shaking my head sadly and wondering what's with all the high horses. I am capable of making that decision for myself, ta very much though.

Is someone being condescending and patronizing towards you?  I looked and it seems like everyone here has been helpful without being condescending or patronizing to you.

[Rhyden]

Psst, Maso. Nyr is a superstar. You know you wanna say it.

[Maso]

Type nosave status.
Then type nosave on any of those things to enable or disable it.
Type nosave status again.

There ya go!  No need to read any more than the stuff in "nosave status."

Did you type nosave status?  Nosave status tells you exactly what is going on.
Did you then change something?  If you change something, the game tells you what you changed.
Did you then type nosave status again?  If you type nosave status again, it tells you exactly what is going on, again, just in case you didn't understand what happened when you changed it.

I'll just copy and paste since you're still asking questions about it:

Code Select Expand

Nosave stuff

Semantics aside, you just need to keep track of what it tells you, not what you think nosave means or should mean.

As a side note, this breakdown has been this way for more than 6 years.  It seems like it was only yesterday!

Unnecessary comments and a writing style that implies a patronizing tone and does not, to me, seem conducive to portraying a helpful and friendly manner.

And Rhyden's post wasn't patronizing, are you kidding me?

I give up. I'd rather just not ask for help in future, than get it like that.

[Rhyden]

I'm sorry if I came off as condescending or patronizing to you, Maso. Can we still be freinds?

The intention of my post was to point out that Nyr is extremely helpful. The task of moderating this gdb is as thankless as some of the players who use it.

Also you did say thanks, I just missed it, and feel pretty silly now. Sorry!

[Nyr]

I don't really want to get into this, but here we are.  After this, the derail is done.  You can direct further issues with staff to the request tool.

Type nosave status.
Then type nosave on any of those things to enable or disable it.
Type nosave status again.

There ya go!  No need to read any more than the stuff in "nosave status."

If you think this is patronizing then you need to take a deep breath, get a drink of water, maybe some alcohol, come back, and reread it again.  You're imagining offense where there is none.  I've got an avatar image of Fry.  Imagine him saying it.  He'd sound like an idiot saying it.  You're reading a tone that isn't there.

Did you type nosave status?  Nosave status tells you exactly what is going on.
Did you then change something?  If you change something, the game tells you what you changed.
Did you then type nosave status again?  If you type nosave status again, it tells you exactly what is going on, again, just in case you didn't understand what happened when you changed it.

These were legitimate questions.  While I did know the answer, the reason I asked was that the answer would lead you and any other interested player to the results you were seeking.  It's always better to empower players to learn to find answers themselves than to just spell things out for them.  I offered a solution to your issue.  You still had problems, so I asked if you'd tried the solution and elaborated on why the solution I suggested was a good idea.  If that's condescending and patronizing...I have no words.  None!

I'll just copy and paste since you're still asking questions about it:

Code Select Expand

Nosave stuff

Semantics aside, you just need to keep track of what it tells you, not what you think nosave means or should mean.

As a side note, this breakdown has been this way for more than 6 years.  It seems like it was only yesterday!

See my first point.  How the hell is that patronizing or condescending?  I've been playing for 10 years.  I've been staffing for 5 years.  This happened 6 years ago.  It does seem like it was only yesterday.  I thought the nosave differences stuff was added way more recently.  I pointed it out as a side note.  I put a smiley () at the end.  I can't get much more bubbly than this.  I used to have a bunny rabbit avatar.  Maybe I should change my forum avatar to that.

Unnecessary comments and a writing style that implies a patronizing tone and does not, to me, seem conducive to portraying a helpful and friendly manner.

Me helping you at all was unnecessary; there are plenty of helpers that can do this.  I did it because I wanted to help anyway.  Your conspiracy-theory response here does not (to me) seem conducive to getting staff members to address your concerns, questions, or issues on the GDB in the future.

And Rhyden's post wasn't patronizing, are you kidding me?

It wasn't.  I'm not kidding you.  You are imagining offense where none exists.  If you're still offended by me helping you and you feel I'm being patronizing and condescending, put in a staff complaint.

[Maso]

Must be PMT. Apologies.

[Nyr]

No worries!

[Yasbusta]

With having way way to many years of playing this game and recently ish, (a little over a month and a half ago) subdued an unconscious person in the gaj without consequence and others not too long before that. I have never seen anyone become wanted by subdueing an unconscious person. Don't know how Nyr gets it to work to become wanted, but honestly would you stand by and watch Nyr touch any unconscious person?
code wise
chances of subduing unconscious person with soldiers around 100%
chances of getting arrested or wanted without target having nosave subdue 90%

how it actually works from my view
chances of subduing unconscious person with soldiers around 100%
chances of getting arrested or wanted 0.01%

live with your chances,

[James de Monet]

An important side note that I think I have pointed out before in discussions on this code: THERE ARE IMPLICATIONS IF YOU HAVE NPC BODYGUARDS (and probably PC bodyguards, for that matter).  (At least in the way it was a few years ago) If you have bodyguards guarding you, and someone tries to subdue you, despite the fact that you have nosave subdue turned on (ie you are NOT resisting being subdued) your bodyguards will still NPCWTF187 the person doing the subduing.  Just so you're aware.