What's okay to talk about on the GDB

[Marauder Moe]

Once upon a time, it was forbidden to discuss magick on the GDB, even if the information was in the docs.

The "one year" rule did not exist because it was never okay to talk in detail about old character's lives/deaths.

If you wanted to brag or share an IC story, you'd submit a log/story and let the staff decide if it's suitable for public consumption.


Do we need to go back to the most orthodox rules of IC information control? Probably not, but I think we've become a bit too casual about it lately.   

[Is Friday]

I think it's more detrimental than helpful to the growth of the game if we're incredibly strict like that. Maybe back in the day when there wasn't as much competition for MUDs or roleplaying outlets, this would be acceptable and still see a moderate amount of growth. If we turn the GDB back into that, though, I can see a lot of new players getting turned off.

Good stories of success/failure/cool stuff well after they are no longer IC helps inspire people to get involved/play more.

[Marauder Moe]

Good stories should go to original submissions, not the GDB.

[solera]

Majick is the only thing I've read about on the GBD which is fresh knowledge that I'd rather not know about.  And as you say, all I've learn't has been in the Help files anyway.
Posting very recent deaths on Clan  Forums has been my only gripe.
In spite of my better self, I am always greedy for crumbs of code though. 

[A Large Bag]

1) If it's in the documentation or has been posted by a staffer on the board, it's okay.

2) If it's a story or something about characters in the game it's okay as long as:

         a) It doesn't break rule #1.
         b) It's over a year old.
         c) It doesn't pertain to any currently living characters.
         d) It is not referring to or giving away something that would be more fun for people to find out in game themselves. Certain creature abilities, secret locations, etc.

Those are the guidelines I follow anyway.

[Feco]

1) If it's in the documentation or has been posted by a staffer on the board, it's okay.

2) If it's a story or something about characters in the game it's okay as long as:

          a) It doesn't break rule #1.
          b) It's over a year old.
          c) It doesn't pertain to any currently living characters.
         

Those are the rules I follow anyway.

I really do think this is sufficient.  I've caught a handful of slip ups here and there, but I've personally never encountered something and went "Oh shit, I didn't know that.  Spoiler."

[Booya]

I think good stories help inspire people, and the rules A Large Bag posted are spot on. I 'd be surprised if the people who know/chat with each other out the game didn't share stories between themselves anyway.

With magick, however, I think it's a real shame it's talked about so freely. If people aren't even noticing what's being spilt here, they must have become very familiar with parts of the game that are still 'wow' to me, and I thought were a rare aspect of the game. Obviously not!

It's good to have big mysteries in the game, and people seem to struggle enough with rp'ing fear and unease about magick without knowing what's out there and possible without even encountering it IC.

People doing sort of 'tweets' about what their characters are up to/deaths etc bugs me a bit, but I understand the compulsion behind doing it.

In spite of my better self, I am always greedy for crumbs of code though. 

Me too! My mind just doesn't work that way to figure it out by myself. Even if it did, it's not my playstyle/interest.

[Feco]

I've noticed some magick talk but I often wonder if those talking even know what they're talking about.

[Adhira]

The one year rule isn't a rule.  It's what some players decided on, from a staff point of view I think more discretion is needed there.  No living characters is a good one, also... are you giving away an aspect of the game that would be more enjoyable if discovered as a player.  This point is HUGE IMO.  While yes it's cool to share that cool thing that happened to you, and at the time you hear it you may think that it's an awesome story, it can detract from what you actually get to experience in game.  Some things are just better left unsaid.

Allusions to current characters, deaths or even... man that RP scene with you guys in the volvo!!!!   I wish that wasn't happening.  Use Kudos to send 'gratz' to others.

[A Large Bag]

That's a good point, I was trying to think of what else I consider when posting and that is one of them. I'm going to add that to my list. I could've sworn the one year thing came from a staffer post in the past though but all I can find is a staffer saying that about six months was the minimum in their opinion.

[Marauder Moe]

People should also be careful about speculating about potentially sensitive aspects of the game, even if they don't have any actual knowledge.

[Kismetic]

I would prefer if the game just wasn't discussed, at all, but when you read about it, and it is something you enjoy in secrecy (read:  do not get to talk about), it is difficult not to chime in with some comment, no matter how asinine.  I'm fairly sure we have all done it -- even you, Moe -- and though we may sometimes have to edit posts, or posts get deleted, we do a decent job of policing ourselves.

Unfortunately, one of the worst threads, IMO, is one that I do like, and have posted in:  'What does your character look like?'  We shouldn't be posting anything about our current characters.

[Morrolan]

One of the parts of this that is so difficult is that, to some extent, we are a self-regulating, volunteer community. Whatever "rules" we make, we have to be willing to enforce. Staff are just trusted members of the community given some level of anonymity and enforcement powers with oversight.

When we try to enforce the rules, sometimes people get defensive and resentful.

So, a rule to not talk about magick on the GDB at all? What would that look like? I prefer the idea that, if it is in the help files we can use it, but no discussions should focus on that specific aspect of the game. Also, no code discussions should circle around those same topics.

There is a lot of information in the help files. Can we just agree not to talk about it?

[Lizzie]

Yeah that works for a week, when it's brought up. And then you get:

"Hey that [redacted] that just happened in the [redacted] was awesome!"

Which is within the "letter of the law" but utterly and completely breaks the "spirit of the law."

Because everyone who was involved in something in the past couple of hours, that involved something you can't talk about on the GDB, knows EXACTLY what that line means, and knows that the poster is the player of one of the characters involved.

But - hey - it didn't violate the rule, official or otherwise.

Also, when people post in random arm thoughts things like:

"I hate suck deaths"

well generally that's a hint, that the person posting, is playing a character that has just died. So anyone who knew about a character death in the last hour, has a general idea that this person played that character. AND - anyone who knew who that player played, just found out on the GDB that their character is now dead.

Even though they didn't mention who their character is, where they died, or the circumstances.

I see a lot of that. A WHOLE lot of that. And I see it being posted by the same people, to the extent that I can often tell which of those particular players, is playing which particular characters.

I don't need to be a number-crunching Gimfalisette to figure it out. Certain people just seem to enjoy leaving obvious clues, as though they're actually -hoping- people will figure out what's going on ICly, just by reading their posts on the GDB.

[Schrodingers Cat]

To be fair, the old GDB was fairly simple and easy to moderate.  The new GDB is 10-100 times more difficult to keep track of, so many more things often get through that probably shouldn't be posted.  I imagine for staff moderating the GDB is sort of a nightmare.

[Morrolan]

Agreed. That is why we, as a community, need to put more effort into helping them by a) moderating ourselves (I mean our own posts), and b) directing staff to trouble-spots.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

I understand the reasoning behind the wish for secrecy in all aspects and because the rules say that we should, I support it. But for relative comparison, D&D mechanics are freely open, and I certainly had a ton of fun and excitement playing that. Knowing secrets has never detracted from my enjoyment of Armageddon, ever. And I think that any good roleplayer will always be able to deal with IC/OOC division.

[Maso]

Allusions to current characters, deaths or even... man that RP scene with you guys in the volvo!!!!   I wish that wasn't happening.  Use Kudos to send 'gratz' to others.

Volvo? There are cars IG?? Major spoiler!

[Dakota]

Allusions to current characters, deaths or even... man that RP scene with you guys in the volvo!!!!   I wish that wasn't happening.  Use Kudos to send 'gratz' to others.

Volvo? There are cars IG?? Major spoiler!

Hell yes! I had a Dolorean! A badass sdesc'd, silver, flame-wheeled dolorean to be exact. Tried to go back in time a week so I could save my mate but on accident I went back in time to the 19th age in the year 55. Landed right in a huge fire that damaged my ride. Luckily I met some crazy alchemist who believed my crackpot tale and "small wagon made of steel". He helped me repair it, which was good because those Tuluki's thought I was up to some evil Sorcery. Had to bugger off before Muk Uteps mega ways erased me from history + the whole time I was being chased by halflings who nearly found their way into my car but I chased them off.. (so I thought).

Barely made it out alive but the crap part was when I got back to present arm time, the car landed in a pile of ox dung. I was so excited I paid some breed to watch it for me to let everyone know.. but when I got back I found that the fucking breed had been eaten and somehow -halfling- tracks were all over the area where the car was.. I say was, because the car was GONE. I'd want to blame staff but.. I dunno.. I heard halflings can be pretty tricky. How they survived the flood? Who knows. But if you see a silver, flame-wheeled delorean being driven around by cackling halflings? That's mine and tell them I want it back.

Edit: I don't know if I can post this on the GDB.. So if it's saying too much, let me know.

[The Lonely Hunter]

I think that it is much more open then it used to be and I am not a big fan. It denies people of the same 'mystery'.  I guess when you take a step back for a bit you can really tell the difference when reapproaching.

People seem to use 'gone' more than they need to as well, but that is for another thread.

[Yam]

I agree with Moe. I think we need to police ourselves better and put more pressure on the people who bring up information about the magick system, areas, animals, and those who post about recent IC events.

[Lizzie]

I've tried to report threads in the past but it never works. My browser gets hung when I hit the send button.

[RogueGunslinger]

I agree with Moe. I think we need to police ourselves better and put more pressure on the people who bring up information about the magick system, areas, animals, and those who post about recent IC events.

Yes, I agree. I've been trying to kindly point it out to people. I think doing this enough will slow down the spread a bit.

I was ignorant for everything as a noob because I hardly read any documentation or forums at all.


And it was an incredibly experience because of that. One fo the reason I looked forward to 2.arm.

[MeTekillot]

Lizzie: The report function has been broken for a while. It says so in the rules thread. You're supposed to report posts via the request tool.

[Lizzie]

Lizzie: The report function has been broken for a while. It says so in the rules thread. You're supposed to report posts via the request tool.

Ah. That post telling about the report function being broken, was written in 2010. That was the last time I read that thread (because then, it came up on my list as "new" for unread posts).

[Feco]

Even though I've personally never been spoiled, I don't mind agreeing to simply be a bit more more strict with policing undocumented and recent information

[timb]

So if you were not around for under tuluk, halflings, copper wars or something, those who were i.c. are dead; to learn anything of this from a ooc interest is just too bad for you? Or is this all logged somewhere I don't know about?

[Cutthroat]

So if you were not around for under tuluk, halflings, copper wars or something, those who were i.c. are dead; to learn anything of this from a ooc interest is just too bad for you? Or is this all logged somewhere I don't know about?

Pretty much everything that anyone should know about the past is on the history page: http://www.armageddon.org/cgi-bin/help_index/timeline.php There are probably a few major things since 1607 that were done that remain undocumented, but those things are probably on still on the public boards in the taverns of any given city.

[chrisdcoulombe]

Allusions to current characters, deaths or even... man that RP scene with you guys in the volvo!!!!   I wish that wasn't happening.  Use Kudos to send 'gratz' to others.

Volvo? There are cars IG?? Major spoiler!

Not volvo,  Volkswagon.  Enter beetle.

[Twilight]

Don't push things to be even more of an advantage for long time players than already is.  One way to alleviate that is to allow current level of information, perhaps a slight bit less, to be put out on the GDB.  History sets context, and unfortunately, as great as the official documents are, they don't do a good job of it.  They are documents about what, who and where, not about how or why.  Context builds players with a deeper understanding of the game world, which IMHO is good for the game.

And while at one point there were really strict board rules, there were also things like APM Vegas.  I would tell you about it, but you know the saying about Vegas.

[Marauder Moe]

Advantage? If I could forget most of my Armageddon knowledge voluntarily, I would in a heartbeat. Would give anything to discover it all over again.

[RogueGunslinger]

Advantage? If I could forget most of my Armageddon knowledge voluntarily, I would in a heartbeat. Would give anything to discover it all over again.

[musashi]

I wouldn't.

[Twilight]

In acting appropriately for the game world...yes, I hope you have an advantage over a new player.

[Maso]

I definitely think the 'what your character would know' stuff could reaaally do with an update.

[chrisdcoulombe]

  Nothing you should be playing armageddon!!!!!

[SMuz]

Yeah, I've noticed that the GDB is a lot more meta than a few years back. Not sure if it's a bad thing.

Spoilers are.. really weird.

There are some "common" plot things which I thought were unique, have reported them, then an admin would tell me that he sees nothing wrong with it. Maybe it happens a lot, and I felt a little disappointed at finding out some things. And there are a hell lot of indirect spoilers. Sometimes an event happens in game, and someone complains about say.. similar game mechanics on the GDB, which reveals way too much info inadvertently, but is well within the rules. Like there might be a crime ring in town, then someone blabs on about how burglary mechanics are unfair with an all too detailed explanation about how his house was robbed.


Things that are reported as spoilers aren't really spoilers. I remember getting yelled at for asking whether sneaky guild 2 has sneaky skill 011. It would be common sense, it's already in the documentation, but it's supposed to be some hush hush thing. It's really not a fun surprise to know that you assumed guild/subguild so and so has a skill when it doesn't. And I've never really seen the appeal in Find Out IC on basic things like where water in the city is or how to craft *basic arrow*.

And I'm glad that the GDB has cooled down on the hard game mechanics stuff. Very often, newbies will come on a forum asking about really basic information like "i have to make a new character just because i sleep in desert last night? wtf???!" or "what guild has swordcrafting". When they get scared off by a hostile GDB populace and are too shy to talk to helpers, they normally just go and ask the person who told them about Armageddon. Or they just get bored and look for some other RPI.


What I consider major spoilers is 'character walkthrough' advice on the GDB. Like how to grind up pickpocket skills such that NPCs won't catch you. Or how to create a raiding group in 4 months from nothing. Or the crafting skill which has the best ROI. Or a breakdown of the most useful attributes. Locations with cool stuff. Where to forage. How to get a job as a robber. That's the real FOIC stuff. That's the stuff you should ask from helpers or staff.

[Elisar]

I have never had anything spoiled by the forums. I think they are plenty strict, if not overly so, as it is now. I feel pretty disconnected from the other players most of the time because of how little day to day OOC interactions there are, such as the lack of global OOC chat, and heavily moderated forums. Most people post maybe once a month on clan forums, just for the roll call, and that is way too little for my taste- but try to start too much discussion on there and it'll be shut down pretty fast. I'd like to get to know the people I'm playing with in my clan every day, and know easier when they are around too. And I feel like any chat room sponsored by the game would be way too stiflingly censored and moderated to be any fun to participate in. I don't want current plots or current IC information ruined, but I feel like a lot of people take it way too hard core and are pretty self righteous about censoring as much information as possible. I think some people would like if there were no forums at all, and I can't get behind that or understand it.

The people who are going to abuse things are already talking with each other out of game in private, so arguing there is too much room for abuse is kind of pointless. People might start to hate you as a player if they learn too much about you and have it negatively affect your rp, but they're going to do that anyway based on assumptions and judgements people make from any small amount of info they see and put together into fake patterns. The staff can easily notice patterns of the same account murdering/griefing another account repeatedly with every new character they make and deal with that.

If you personally don't want to know certain things, don't open threads that have titles suggesting they talk about it. As long as people don't derail it shouldn't be a problem for you to be spoiled accidentally.