Masks/Facewraps

[Potaje]

Boy I must be playing it wrong, half the time I don;t read descriptions, expecially if there are hoods and face wraps involved. But i do look at peoples equipment list.

Then when in a bar and someone is sitting there hood down , face wrap down and I glance over them I start with any distinguishing gear. Same with looking at shadows (hiding folk) .

[Yam]

Boy I must be playing it wrong, half the time I don;t read descriptions, expecially if there are hoods and face wraps involved. But i do look at peoples equipment list.

Then when in a bar and someone is sitting there hood down , face wrap down and I glance over them I start with any distinguishing gear. Same with looking at shadows (hiding folk) .

Same here. I don't even know what the hell my own PC's mdescs are.

[RogueGunslinger]

Boy I must be playing it wrong, half the time I don;t read descriptions, expecially if there are hoods and face wraps involved. But i do look at peoples equipment list.

Then when in a bar and someone is sitting there hood down , face wrap down and I glance over them I start with any distinguishing gear. Same with looking at shadows (hiding folk) .

Ditto. I do it to preserve the flavor that coded mdesc hiders would allow for. 

[BadSkeelz]

Boy I must be playing it wrong, half the time I don;t read descriptions, expecially if there are hoods and face wraps involved. But i do look at peoples equipment list.

Then when in a bar and someone is sitting there hood down , face wrap down and I glance over them I start with any distinguishing gear. Same with looking at shadows (hiding folk) .

This is how I play too. Aside from the sdesc, I know people by their equipment (even if they're not wearing a mask) far better than I know them by their mdescs. Blame me being too lazy to scroll up on the original tiny Flash client screen. And it just makes more sense to me to recognize someone by the cord-long obsidian-studded codpiece they always wear than the fact that, according to their mdesc, they're covered in dick tattoos (especially when I've never seen them outside of full clothing). When I deal with people who are wearing masks and veils and whatnot, I do make an effort not to read their mdesc and guess what their sdesc might be. I try to skim through to see if they got any really noticeable physical traits ("there is a third arm growing out of their chest") but generally I stick to equipment.

For a few months now I've been thinking of a way how to give masks et all a coded ability to obscure one's mdesc. Blocking it out entirely is too much. A temporary "masked" desc like some have said is a better start. My own idea was to have your mdesc coded into different categories: face, body type, etc, with things like your face or body scarring being blotted out by certain clothing, but your mdesc would retain that you have a hunchback or something. Way too complicated to hope for, though.

To compensate for all this I just PK mask-wearers on reflex.

[Malken]

Boy I must be playing it wrong, half the time I don;t read descriptions, expecially if there are hoods and face wraps involved. But i do look at peoples equipment list.

Then when in a bar and someone is sitting there hood down , face wrap down and I glance over them I start with any distinguishing gear. Same with looking at shadows (hiding folk) .

What? I make sure to read the entire mdesc each time I see someone, so that when a Templar asks me what that person looks like, I can just copy/paste them the entire description word for word.

[Maso]

Hide the mdesc. Please, for kraths sake, hide the mdesc.

You can still see their height and weight, you can still assess-v to get an idea of their age. These things should be more than enough to represent that "I just knew it was so-and-so" feeling you get when watching someone you know with a helmet on or somesuch. The idea here is you don't KNOW for sure. You've got a feeling. Also, if that person wants to recognize having a limp, or a strange gait, or a certain set to their shoulders, then this is something that should be left for emote, hemote and semotes.

And in response to Morgenes reply in ATS...You should get power from being anonymous...And you should be able to abuse that! But there would be downsides...like drawing attention to yourself walking around the city.

Please make this so.

Personally I don't actually read peoples full mdescs most of the time, but I bet a lot of folks do. And copy/paste it too.

[Patuk]

A solution:

Wear your hood up. When you meet someone, say, "If I catch you looking at me, I am going to give you the time of your life."

If they look at you, mudsex them.

I think this is more appropriate to IC conflict, since player death is not something we're aiming for in this MUD.

This.

The GDB is conclusive proof that people are far more afraid of commiting the vile act of mudsex than getting their characters killed, anyway.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

Maybe have a mask randomly delete x number of sentences from your main desc, per look? Then no one look would give you the details, but it'd give you some.

[musashi]

I never had a problem with the way Harshlands made masks and hoods work. Hid your mdesc and sdesc, except there was a "study" command one could use, it echo'd that people were staring at you, and after a delay it displayed your sdesc and mdesc to them.

[Kastion]

if you really wanted to do it, and make it semi fair I think the best way would be to change how setting up your mdesc works. Have a couple different fields for say, face, body, and whatever else. That way when you wear a mask it can automatically cover anything in the face field. This wouldn't hide all information but just the section the immortals wanted. But you would have to add in some more stuff like descriptions for how you move and stuff for the crowd that believes you would recognize someone just from their actions. Still think it would be completely broken from a law enforcement stand point though.

edit: Had more ideas come to me

you could take it a step further and make body equipment like a cloak, tabard, armor w/e cover over body slots
this would allow you to have a desc that shows what the user would see when you are wearing clothing or if you are wearing something bulky and covering it would completely hide your body description besides the "he looks larger then you and heavier then you" aspect

It could also allow for a "naked" description to be added that shows off all your hidden scars and tattoos and such when you are doing the dirty. Bonus points you can describe how big your virtual dong is to look good for the ladies.

[Qzzrbl]

I'd really like to rob/mug someone without having to kill them for fear of them spitting out my every distinguishing bit of my mdesc to the first lawman they saw.

I mean, sure. It's possible to make yourself unrecognizable. But it's ofttimes a bitch to track down [redacted]. Even harder still is when you don't have [redacted].

[AreteX]

I don't think the problem is masks/facewraps I think it is player accountability for their recognizing skills.  If it is not established that you shouldn't immediately recognized and know every detail about someone's mdesc or sdesc from one quick <look person> when they tried to steal your coins or attacked someone then it should be established.

I have read some good forum posts in some of the military styled clans in Arm about looking at people and avoiding the instant recognition.  When reporting people to not say their sdesc exactly.  "It was definitely a TALL, MUSCULAR, MAN and he had two small scars on his right wrist that at the time was covered by bracers but his mdesc says it so he does."

This is the type of thing that needs to be avoided and I think its up to the players to censor themselves from reading an mdesc, having a log of it, and having their characters instantly know every detail about that mdesc.  When you're stolen from or attacked its very easy to get upset OOCly I think for a lot of people and the want to catch the criminal is a strong one.  Everyone needs to take a step back and play realistically though, like always.

When I interact with someone once I try to remember an obvious detail about them ICly.  If they're bald, for instance.  "I remember him... he was big and bald."  Thats it.  If I interact with them more times I remember more details.  If I speak with them all the time I start remembering the smaller details.  "Oh, Amos?  He's tall... kind of stocky, muscular and he's bald with a big scar across his face and he likes using clubs, two of them.  I think he wears this ribbon in his hair, too."  Also, just because you have a log of it or can scroll back in your client doesn't mean your character has perfect memory.  Try to make mistakes every now and then when recalling something just like in real life.  Take a look at someone for a few seconds and then one hour later try to recall details on their face.  The details fade away and you're left with the obvious or muddy versions of their details.  Do this in-game as well.

Also, if you're reading an MDESC and it says something specifically identifying please look down at what the person is wearing as well.  If they're in a hooded ABA with a bunch of armor on you're not likely to see that tattoo that is across their back in their mdesc.  So, unless you've kanked them a few times then try to filter that information out and don't use it for every day descriptions.

I guess the summary of this post is be the change.  Coded mdesc hiding items or not we should all be playing more realistically when it comes to our observation skills and being able to immediately identify anyone and everyone we've seen only once.

[Lizzie]

I never had a problem with the way Harshlands made masks and hoods work. Hid your mdesc and sdesc, except there was a "study" command one could use, it echo'd that people were staring at you, and after a delay it displayed your sdesc and mdesc to them.

You know, this could even solve the "problem" (perceived or otherwise) with the look command.

Looking at someone would not return an echo - but if someone was wearing a mask or facewrap, it also wouldn't show their mdesc - only their eq list.

If you wanted to see their full desc, you'd have to use study, which would always return an echo.

AND....

make it so that both look and study can have emotes appended to them.

AND..

if you appended look, it -would- return the echo.

[Akaramu]

I never had a problem with the way Harshlands made masks and hoods work. Hid your mdesc and sdesc, except there was a "study" command one could use, it echo'd that people were staring at you, and after a delay it displayed your sdesc and mdesc to them.

This sounds pretty awesome.

Or Kismetic's brilliant idea of a tdesc type of temporary desc that describes whatever is still visible with the mask on.

[RogueGunslinger]

Witnesses are notoriously REALLY bad at remembering details. It would be nice if this was more represented in peoples roleplay.

[Maso]

I think it's almost too much to expect of some players, you know? The urge to 'win' is usually too strong. I'd rather see a level of anonymity possible within the code of the game.

[A Large Bag]

I never had a problem with the way Harshlands made masks and hoods work. Hid your mdesc and sdesc, except there was a "study" command one could use, it echo'd that people were staring at you, and after a delay it displayed your sdesc and mdesc to them.

I'd like it if it worked this way. In addition, like another said, make look an hemote unless an emote is tagged onto it and make "study" echo all the time with a delay that can be interrupted by combat, etc.
I would totally prefer this over the way it is currently. Bring back masks and hoods that hide your main desc, make them commonplace and not some "special unrealistically rare" items. Then add this study command.

[Kismetic]

I think it's almost too much to expect of some players, you know? The urge to 'win' is usually too strong. I'd rather see a level of anonymity possible within the code of the game.

Why have such an unbreakable anonymity (with or without hide/sneak, magickal hiding), unless from some urge to 'win'?  What intense roleplaying purpose does complete anonymity serve?  I would think that is isolating, if anything.

Witnesses are notoriously REALLY bad at remembering details. It would be nice if this was more represented in peoples roleplay.

Must be a Nakki thing.

[racurtne]

Witnesses are notoriously REALLY bad at remembering details. It would be nice if this was more represented in peoples roleplay.

My character in the AOD, I think, sometimes annoyed his Templar bosses by being vague on details. I just felt it was boring to always catch the criminals right away. Of course, I also noticed in my time in the AOD that some people played criminals who never dropped their "tough guy" attitude. This generally resulted in them being severely dealt with when caught.

In Allanak, I always felt like the 'rinthis should acknowledge they are out of their element when they are in the city proper, just as any AOD soldier going into the rinth would be (half crazy) extremely cautious.

tldr: Soldiers and authorities would have more fun by letting criminals stay on the streets. Criminals, in turn, should recognize some limits, both in their attitudes and in their actions if they don't want to get severely dealt with when caught.

Related to that is: Just like how cops in RL get adrenaline pumping and sometimes overreact to a surrendering suspect after a long chase, authorities in Zalanthas are probably going to deal with you MUUUUCH more harshly if you do everything in your power to escape them constantly. I saw WAY too many people just get killed because they didn't know when to stop trying to get away.

[Kismetic]

My character in the AOD, I think, sometimes annoyed his Templar bosses by being vague on details.

I honestly see this far more than the alternative.  Like, 10:1

[racurtne]

My character in the AOD, I think, sometimes annoyed his Templar bosses by being vague on details.

I honestly see this far more than the alternative.  Like, 10:1

Which part of that? The being annoyed or the vague reporting?

EDIT: Because I can say that it never caused any friction between my character and the Templar, or me and the other player. If any players actually disagreed with my stance, they handled it very well, and I was never disappointed with how it was handled IC by them.

[Kryos]

'Realism' isn't exactly on the other side of the coin as well.  Remember those threads about apartments being cleaned out, furniture and all?  Pickpockets swiping everyone dry in a bar?  Heck, I even remember a situation where about 10 people were in a closed room, some with the skill to find hidden people, all looking for 1 person acting suspicious or different then the known people there.  Its cool, stealth made him a invisible god ninja and he spam fled as soon as there was a way out.

Its not one point of the crim code, or hiding desc system, or stealth that would need tweaked.  Lots of things out of whack.

[Kismetic]

My character in the AOD, I think, sometimes annoyed his Templar bosses by being vague on details.

I honestly see this far more than the alternative.  Like, 10:1

Which part of that? The being annoyed or the vague reporting?

EDIT: Because I can say that it never caused any friction between my character and the Templar, or me and the other player. If any players actually disagreed with my stance, they handled it very well, and I was never disappointed with how it was handled IC by them.

People being vague, and intentionally forgetting or not noticing things.  It frustrates me, too, but I handle it well. 

[Feco]

Just be careful assuming, if you do.  A Templar character can be annoyed, but the player may appreciate your roleplay.

[racurtne]

Just be careful assuming, if you do.  A Templar character can be annoyed, but the player may appreciate your roleplay.

I believe I mentioned that.  Well, not precisely that, but that was my point, yes. I said "if" they had a problem OOC, I couldn't tell. I assumed IC is always IC, as I expect everyone else to do.