Are people too focused on Mudsex?

[Reiteration]

Akaramu has been making her rounds, I see.

[RogueGunslinger]

I think the only people too focused on mudsex are the ones who bring up threads like this.

[MeTekillot]

Guys.

I know I may sound like a bit of a hypocrite here, because I'm adding a comment, and I play the game like the rest of you-

But you're discussing the topic of if imaginary characters on a text based game have too much word-sex.

I just felt like we should all be aware of this.

thank you for stating the obvious did you also want to mention a large portion of us contribute our time to emulating the mindset and actions of fictional characters who live in a world where bugs weigh 400 lbs and the cities are ruled over by wizards

[AdamBlue]

Guys.

I know I may sound like a bit of a hypocrite here, because I'm adding a comment, and I play the game like the rest of you-

But you're discussing the topic of if imaginary characters on a text based game have too much word-sex.

I just felt like we should all be aware of this.

thank you for stating the obvious did you also want to mention a large portion of us contribute our time to emulating the mindset and actions of fictional characters who live in a world where bugs weigh 400 lbs and the cities are ruled over by wizards

Why, yes. But I hardly see how that has anything to do with the topic~.

[A Large Bag]

It's genuinely never bothered my immersionz, which is I guess my line.

Three questions:

- If you care about other people mudsexing, is it because it breaks your immersion or makes the game legitimately unenjoyable for you? If not, I'm not sure where your complaint is.

- Do you feel like the consent rule is being honored? This is important, but I haven't heard anyone saying otherwise, and if so that's definitely the point where a player complaint needs to be filed and staff involved.

- Do you play certain types of characters less often because you're sick of everyone constantly sleazing on them in a non-IC appropriate way? This sounds like it might be a real issue for people playing female characters, and that sucks and is something we should look at.

- I don't care that people mudsex. I just wish they'd behave realistically within in the gameworld in regards to it. When -most- characters appear to be basing all their decisions off "how much booty will I be getting" depending on the choice it's annoying and unrealistic. Sure, I can see -some- doing it but it seems excessive as of late. It makes it unenjoyable to me when, no matter how non-desireable I make the character, I'm getting propositioned constantly. I know it will happen with some characters, I'm fine with it and expect it to happen. But when I make a two-headed halfbreed with a tail and five eyes and everyone is still trying hard to bone me, it's very annoying and disrupts my immersion into the game.

-In my experiences the consent rule is being honored. No problems there for me.

-The problem is, it doesn't matter what I play the last two years. Every time I'm in game somebody is trying to fuck me. Sometimes it's appropriate and makes ic sense but just as much of the time, it doesn't. It starts to feel like most pcs have the sex drives of 18 year old boys, on viagra, ecstacy, and speed with constant beer goggles on. It turns into: If you're a pc, you're a fucktarget. I absolutely refuse to play a human female because then it's even worse.


I have no issues roleplaying it out when appropriate. I just want it to make sense ic and it's just not something I prefer to spend much of my time roleplaying. Also, it has felt so excessive to me the last couple years, when I see 60+ people on and noone around, I actually think to myself: Huh, where's the orgy?

[Feco]

Guys.

I know I may sound like a bit of a hypocrite here, because I'm adding a comment, and I play the game like the rest of you-

But you're discussing the topic of if imaginary characters on a text based game have too much word-sex.

I just felt like we should all be aware of this.

thank you for stating the obvious did you also want to mention a large portion of us contribute our time to emulating the mindset and actions of fictional characters who live in a world where bugs weigh 400 lbs and the cities are ruled over by wizards

Why, yes. But I hardly see how that has anything to do with the topic~.

The entire game is silly in a sense.  No need to point out how silly any topic related to it is.

[boog]

It's genuinely never bothered my immersionz, which is I guess my line.

Three questions:

- If you care about other people mudsexing, is it because it breaks your immersion or makes the game legitimately unenjoyable for you? If not, I'm not sure where your complaint is.

- Do you feel like the consent rule is being honored? This is important, but I haven't heard anyone saying otherwise, and if so that's definitely the point where a player complaint needs to be filed and staff involved.

- Do you play certain types of characters less often because you're sick of everyone constantly sleazing on them in a non-IC appropriate way? This sounds like it might be a real issue for people playing female characters, and that sucks and is something we should look at.

- I don't care that people mudsex. I just wish they'd behave realistically within in the gameworld in regards to it. When -most- characters appear to be basing all their decisions off "how much booty will I be getting" depending on the choice it's annoying and unrealistic. Sure, I can see -some- doing it but it seems excessive as of late. It makes it unenjoyable to me when, no matter how non-desireable I make the character, I'm getting propositioned constantly. I know it will happen with some characters, I'm fine with it and expect it to happen. But when I make a two-headed halfbreed with a tail and five eyes and everyone is still trying hard to bone me, it's very annoying and disrupts my immersion into the game.

-In my experiences the consent rule is being honored. No problems there for me.

-The problem is, it doesn't matter what I play the last two years. Every time I'm in game somebody is trying to fuck me. Sometimes it's appropriate and makes ic sense but just as much of the time, it doesn't. It starts to feel like most pcs have the sex drives of 18 year old boys, on viagra, ecstacy, and speed with constant beer goggles on. It turns into: If you're a pc, you're a fucktarget. I absolutely refuse to play a human female because then it's even worse.


I have no issues roleplaying it out when appropriate. I just want it to make sense ic and it's just not something I prefer to spend much of my time roleplaying. Also, it has felt so excessive to me the last couple years, when I see 60+ people on and noone around, I actually think to myself: Huh, where's the orgy?

Maybe it's where you're playing and who you're playing around.

Seriously. I haven't been propositioned on my past 3 characters, and I've had them for like, almost a year combined.

[sandyboots]

... a two-headed halfbreed with a tail and five eyes

How YOU doin'? 

But seriously, though. As was pointed out earlier in the thread, I think some of this can be blamed on the medium. Characters designed to 'look' ugly might actually be more attractive than they would in real life (ha ha) because when we don't get a real picture to look at, the personality becomes extra important in deciding if somebody is attractive.

For example, I find that a lot of the little horndogs can be chased off if she is a bad-ass butch. Even if she is actually reasonablly attractive, if she's a guild warrior that acts rough, kicks ass and takes names, you won't get hit on as much for casual sex because people are afraid that you'll murder them with your bare hands. Of course, some characters are into badass warrior women, but they amuse me.

[FantasyWriter]

Guys.

I know I may sound like a bit of a hypocrite here, because I'm adding a comment, and I play the game like the rest of you-

But you're discussing the topic of if imaginary characters on a text based game have too much word-sex.

I just felt like we should all be aware of this.

thank you for stating the obvious did you also want to mention a large portion of us contribute our time to emulating the mindset and actions of fictional characters who live in a world where bugs weigh 400 lbs and the cities are ruled over by wizards

Why, yes. But I hardly see how that has anything to do with the topic~.

Sex(or lack thereof) is a very real and important part of peoples lives, especially people in a world filled with horrors who may just see sex, booze, and/or spice as their only reliefs from said horrors.

[Erythil]

Some people are.

Some people aren't.

If you think this is bad, go play Firan MUSH or something and get back to me.

[Sav]

It makes it unenjoyable to me when, no matter how non-desireable I make the character, I'm getting propositioned constantly. I know it will happen with some characters, I'm fine with it and expect it to happen. But when I make a two-headed halfbreed with a tail and five eyes and everyone is still trying hard to bone me, it's very annoying and disrupts my immersion into the game.

Okay, this I totally understand and agree is a legitimate issue, and it kind of gets buried in the "lol we're discussing mudsex" thing which can wind up judgmental and silly regardless of anyone's stance on it. Players of two-headed breeds (etc) should not be dealing with so many ICly-inappropriate creepers that they're getting turned off the game.

I agree with boog that you might want to try changing up where you're playing, and sandyboots that part of the problem might be, uh, that you're a skilled and compelling writer and obviously the solution there is to give yourself a brain injury and start making twinky characters without any personality. Or maybe we should just be ICly shaming unobservant hornbags who are trying to pick up two-headed breeds at bars, which will lead to fun in-game conflict.

[RogueGunslinger]

If you have a problem with someones unrealistic roleplay, then please send in a complaint. Making a post on the boards about it doesn't really help at all.

[A Large Bag]

If you have a problem with someones unrealistic roleplay, then please send in a complaint. Making a post on the boards about it doesn't really help at all.

I disagree. Otherwise, why have any forums to discuss anything at all? We even have a roleplaying discussion board specifically to discuss roleplaying things. I could've put it there as well probably. I decided general would be fine because we could discuss both the OOC aspect and the IC aspects of it.
This isn't something with my current pc. This isn't one particular episode. It's about the game, in general. Besides, I think discussing it on say...the "discussion" board may get those to aren't thinking about that to think about it and self-correct before they do end up getting complaints. Win-win.

Submit a complaint, they get notes on their account. Which they probably won't hear of until if/when they request their account notes and will continue to behave in such a manner all the while not knowing they are doing anything wrong. And by the time they do, yay, you fixed that problem for one person out of the many that play this game.

If you don't think it will help anything, why waste time posting in the thread at all then? Obviously some people were interested in the subject.

[RogueGunslinger]

Because apparently people think stirring up shit-storms on the GDB is a more appropriate way of letting someone know they're doing something wrong, than addressing that person specifically through staff.

Do you really believe making posts like this shames people into behaving better? For all you know the people doing these things never once have looked at the GDB.

[A Large Bag]

Because apparently people think stirring up shit-storms on the GDB is a more appropriate way of letting someone know they're doing something wrong, than addressing that person specifically through staff.

Do you really believe making posts like this shames people into behaving better?

I'm not targetting anyone in particular. Not in the slightest.  I'm not trying to shame anyone either. I'm trying to have a discussion about it. If you don't want to discuss it, don't. Please stop derailing my thread, thank you.

[RogueGunslinger]

If you have a problem with someones unrealistic roleplay, then please send in a complaint. Making a post on the boards about it doesn't really help at all.

I was very specific in my wording in this post. I was also not addressing it to anyone in particular. You came in and said you disagreed with it. That suggests to me that you believe the boards are a good place to air out your problems with someones(or many peoples) roleplay, doesn't it? You claim its for the sake of discussion, but all you're doing is reiterating your same complaint, over and over again, that people aren't 'doing it' realistically.

If people aren't being realistic then report them, so the problem can actually be addressed, instead of discussed in a medium they may never actually see. That is all my point was. Reporting people, in my opinion, will get much more done than vague complaints on the board. I'm totally fine with vague complaints, I piss and moan all the time. I'm not okay with people believing that this is the proper way to address the issue at hand, over filing an official complaint.

[A Large Bag]

It makes it unenjoyable to me when, no matter how non-desireable I make the character, I'm getting propositioned constantly. I know it will happen with some characters, I'm fine with it and expect it to happen. But when I make a two-headed halfbreed with a tail and five eyes and everyone is still trying hard to bone me, it's very annoying and disrupts my immersion into the game.

Okay, this I totally understand and agree is a legitimate issue, and it kind of gets buried in the "lol we're discussing mudsex" thing which can wind up judgmental and silly regardless of anyone's stance on it. Players of two-headed breeds (etc) should not be dealing with so many ICly-inappropriate creepers that they're getting turned off the game.

I agree with boog that you might want to try changing up where you're playing, and sandyboots that part of the problem might be, uh, that you're a skilled and compelling writer and obviously the solution there is to give yourself a brain injury and start making twinky characters without any personality. Or maybe we should just be ICly shaming unobservant hornbags who are trying to pick up two-headed breeds at bars, which will lead to fun in-game conflict.

I can see how those are possible reasons why it happens. I appreciate the input on the discussion and your feedback. I wanted to know if it was only happening to me or if others were experiencing it as well and what some of the possible reasons for it were. I've pretty much found out what I was curious about and hopefully sparked some people's thoughts on the subject a bit. I figure it's much more constructive to myself and others than just simply making an assumption and jumping right to filing complaints on people. I know that it makes me feel like a douche to go directly to filing complaints on people.
I don't have any other questions or anything else to say on the matter so, you all feel free if you think of anything else on the subject.

[Suhuy]

I don't think it's ever a good idea to suggest reporting other players for abuse. It just comes across as tattletaling. Most players these days are solid RPers and if anything they're doing may be construed as abuse, it's likely one of those gray areas of interpretation (as opposed to more obvious forms of abuse such as sparring nonstop for endless IC days at a time or taking advantage of a bug in the code). Telling people to file in a complaint, especially for something as trivial as with whom or how often a PC is RPing sex, seems to me a huge waste of staff time.

[Armaddict]

Told you.

[Dakota]

I love topics like this. Really I do. It makes me smile in amusement.

Yup.

People make mountains out of molehills.

[musashi]

ShaLeah is a mudsex addict.
This is the sum total of everything I know about mudsex.

[ShaLeah]

ShaLeah is a mudsex addict.
This is the sum total of everything I know about mudsex.

Mind keeping my IC business off the GDB! Haysoos.

[musashi]

 

Seriously and more to the OP ... I haven't noticed this. But I play iso so ... yeah.

[Akaramu]

I sort of agree with the OP, but it isn't enough of an issue for me to send out player complaints. What I've noticed is that if I play a sex bomb, and then a less sexually active character next, people -seem- to immediately try to get some from my new PC as well once they've figured out the emote style is the same and it's probably me. It doesn't matter if my current character is a scarred, gortok-faced hardass bitch that farts constantly, and that they've JUST met and exchanged a few words, and that my character probably doesn't want to take her pants off for some random stranger she just met in the Gaj. But really, I'd never send a player complaint, it isn't -that- much of a problem. Just slightly frustrating.

p.s. I still don't get why so few people other than templars and elves actively hit on my gypo in 8 ingame years, but half of the Known wanted to get into my boobless, average-looking teen's pants. Huh. You people are weird sometimes!

p.p.s. That gypo was AMAZING. You all missed out. I'm looking at you, Feco. 

[Red Ranger]

I'm smellin' what the OP is cookin'.  I too don't dislike mudsex per se, or even the amount of mudsex that is (constantly) going on in Zalanthas.  After all, sexual intercourse and sexual relationships are an important motivator in RL and in the historical fiction (e.g. Robert Graves' book I, Claudius or Showtime's TV series "The Borgias") and fantasy fiction (e.g. George R.R. Martin's "Song of Ice and Fire" book series) that I enjoy and that Armageddon sometimes emulates and even exceeds when at its best.

However, IMO, the mudsexing needs to be done right and within the IC context of our awesome game world.  The outlook toward sex in Zalanthas isn't precisely the same as in the worlds of those examples I cited above, nor is it the same as a swingers club in 1970's New York City or anywhere in the Real Word today for that matter.  IMO, Zalanthans in general aren't prudish or squeamish or puritanical about sex, but that doesn't mean it's a constant Free Love orgy out there where the two-headed half-breeds are swinging with the noble house guard captains.  Zalanthans may not be prudish, but they are racist and xenophobic.  Zalanthans are also intimately aware of the tremendous differences in class that exist in society.  Those class differences have existed for literally and hundreds and hundreds of years and will persist long after your PC is dust, in large part because they are enforced by the entrenched and very powerful Powers that Be.

So, there are no common taboos in Zalanthas against promiscuity or out of wedlock sexual relations, but that doesn't mean there are no sexual taboos whatsoever.  IMO Zalanthas has sexual taboos, but they're just different.  IMO there should generally be potent IC taboos against sexual relations across race, across class, or with outsiders i.e. those from different cities or outside groups.  Of course, it's human nature to Do the Wrong Thing when it comes to sex; for evidence just read current events about American politicians that have had their careers ruined because they were making decisions based on sexual desires rather than on their own rational political interests.  However, those RL downfalls also help make this point, which has already been made in this thread: crossing the Zalanthan line on sexual mores should have consequences.  Who knows, maybe if these everyday racist, xenophobic, and class-conscious prejudices and taboos were played out more we wouldn't have frequent GDB threads questioning whether Armageddon is safe and cozy?

Another problem I have with mudsex as practiced on Armageddon is in my experience it typically plays out in one of two scenarios: 1) female PC propositioned by male PC or 2) female PC using mudsex as a means to manipulate male PC (and I suppose both do coexist).  Both of these things are fine per se, and can be perfectly appropriate IC'ly.  My problem is when 1) and 2) are the vast majority of mudsex scenarios that are played out in-game, because those two scenarios are the ones that predominate in RL and which reinforce the stereotypical RL sexual roles of males being sexually dominant in 1) and females acting as the sexual gatekeeper in 2).  This is a problem because there are no gender specific roles or social differences in Zalanthas, so constantly seeing those two specific scenarios played out to the exclusion of all others really starts to erode my immersion even without me playing the female PC getting constantly propositioned for sex.  IMO it comes across as the playerbase ignoring the gameworld.

So, my answer is... more conscientious mudsex RP.  Go forth and be harsh, unsafe, and uncozy to those PCs that are mudsexing the two-headed halfbreeds, the magickers, the foreigners, and those way beneath their social status; let the hate flow through you.  You PC employers out there, stop making exceptions for those elf/breed/magicker/foreigner lovers and refuse to hire them and fire the ones you uncover on your payroll, despite the IC versus OOC supply/demand mismatch for PC hirelings.  Sure your guard might be maxed at skill_slashing_weapons, but he's sleeping with a half-elf and everyone knows it.  Or maybe don't fire him, just order him to cut if off with her as a test of his loyalty, or have his half-elf girlfriend killed, but whatever you do don't act like it's no big deal.  You horny mudsexers out there, go get your freak on with those magickers and outcasts because you're in lurve, but try to cover your tracks because the Status Quo isn't going to look kindly on your deviated preversions.  Better yet, get your mudsex on by making those male PCs that sleep their way to the top as a sexual gatekeeper getting goodies and protection from the more powerful female PC, by making those male PC prostitutes, and by making those female PCs that are sexually domineering too.

Let's mix it up and RP people!