Discussion thread - Extended Subguilds

[Aaron Goulet]

I was quite excited at the first prospect of reading into this and thinking how I might be able to try out some of these subguilds, then I saw they all required CGP(Karma).   I then realized that most of these, even the most "basic" mundane versions are out of my reach.

I really do like how things are being added to enhance the game, but there are a very large group of us players who do NOT have Karma and are unable to experience ANY of this new stuff going into the game.  I do hope with the CGP system that perhaps it flows more freely in the future(for instance character longevity) and the like... but...

Its a bit disheartening that things are being added and they're just more things out of my reach.


Otherwise:  This is a really awesome addition and I am sure if I had access to any of it I would be extremely pleased and happy

Well, this is just a guess, but it sounds like in the original announcement for this in the staff forums, they have also revised the criteria by which karma is awarded, making it a little less arbitrary, and since CGP (I did it right!) will automatically regulate the amount of "special people" in game, staff might be a little less reluctant to dole out karma to the deserving, effectively lifting the perceived "karma freeze" some people have speculated about.

[CravenMadness]

I probably won't even try any of this special app stuff until it's an automatic process.

Don't much like waiting a week just to find out that

A) either denied and told to change minor details and wait another three or four days
B) accepted, but no coinciding times will be available for another week in order to be 'set up'

It's difficult enough for me to really get into a new character, especially after an old one just died, but to take a week or two just to get back in would kill my stride.

[brytta.leofa]

Oh, oh, more question:
3) Subguild cavilish?

Looks like Master Trader has you covered.  It alludes to it; perhaps it should be more clear.

Ah, I thought it was alluding to haggle. Neat.

Yes, please!  I'd say it would be cool if it came with any of the master crafting guilds (making it easier to fly under the radar).  Another option might be to let players add new languages at a CGP-per rate in additon to a subguild (effectively functioning similarly to skill bumps).

Yar, if the master-crafting subguilds don't include cavalish, it might be a convenient automation to allow purchasing it for an additional 1 CXP or so.

[Nyr]

I was quite excited at the first prospect of reading into this and thinking how I might be able to try out some of these subguilds, then I saw they all required CGP(Karma).   I then realized that most of these, even the most "basic" mundane versions are out of my reach.

I really do like how things are being added to enhance the game, but there are a very large group of us players who do NOT have Karma and are unable to experience ANY of this new stuff going into the game.  I do hope with the CGP system that perhaps it flows more freely in the future(for instance character longevity) and the like... but...

Its a bit disheartening that things are being added and they're just more things out of my reach.


Otherwise:  This is a really awesome addition and I am sure if I had access to any of it I would be extremely pleased and happy

I am under the impression that (just like you could if this were completely implemented, or just like you could prior to this partial, trial implementation) you can special app.

[lordcooper]

I probably won't even try any of this special app stuff until it's an automatic process.

Don't much like waiting a week just to find out that

A) either denied and told to change minor details and wait another three or four days
B) accepted, but no coinciding times will be available for another week in order to be 'set up'

It's difficult enough for me to really get into a new character, especially after an old one just died, but to take a week or two just to get back in would kill my stride.

If I'm understanding correctly, you can special app at any point and only play the new PC upon your current character's death.  If anything, this could potentially lower your time in between characters to nothing at all.  The only feature requiring to be 'set up' is the skill bumps, anything else can be done without your virtual presence

[Correct me if I'm wrong]

[Nyr]

Yes, you can special app at any point, anyway (even if you are already playing a character).

exceptions:

you have already special apped 3 times in a year
you have special apped once already in the past month period

[CravenMadness]

Ohhhhhhhhh reaaaaaaally......

[FantasyWriter]

I didn't know if anyone noticed or not, but since it usually gets done the same day as changes like these:

The news feed on the main website and MOTD haven't been updated yet for the players that don't follow the discussion board.

[Adhira]

Every single player has access to this system -right now-.  ALL of the subguilds that are open for special application cost 3 CGP or less.  All special applications are considered to be for up to 3 CGP (or karma points) worth of changes.  This could be:

- A guild or race that is within 3 points of your current karma level.  If you have no karma you can special app for a desert elf, vivaduan, rukkian or Half Giant.
- Skill bumps up to 3 levels of mastery on any of your characters starting skills.  With the caveat that weapons skills will max at 2 skill bumps.
- Any of the EXTENDED subguilds we have said are available right now.  Note, the magicker subguilds are off the table at this point in time.

To those that are lamenting the fact that these all incur a reasonable cost which could exclude lower or zero karma players from creating their most desired combinations, sorry, these are not your average subguilds. They are more powerful, they have more options and they are meant either for those that have the karma to spend on them or who wish to use up one of their special application slots to have one.  The existing subguilds and guilds are still in play and you have the same access to those that you have always had.  As mentioned above, the majority of these subguilds are available via special application which will open up combinations to everyone, you just might not get to play the nilazi assassin you were dreaming of.

[Marauder Moe]

Does the fact that these are special app mean that we can apply for them while still having living characters?

Would it irk you (staff) if we applied as such but with no intent to store or otherwise have our current characters expire?

What would happen if, while such a special application was processing, a karma character was applied for through the regular system?  Would CGP's be "spent" and potentially invalidate the special application?

[Spoon]

I still think 2 bumps for weapon skills is too much.

[Marauder Moe]

I still think 2 bumps for weapon skills is too much.

Oh yes, this I was thinking as well.

Journeyman weapon skill does not seem to be a trivial accomplishment on par with journeyman ride/parry/sneak/whatever.

If anything, it ought to cost 2-3 CGP for 1 bump.

[Bacon]

I think 2 bumps on weapon skills is fine. Maybe cost two points per bump on those though.

[Taven]

1) I can't get the helpfile for "Master Weaponsmith" to work
2) The magick subguilds look neat (I would definitely want to play one someday), but I was wondering why you decided against any elementalist subguilds?

[Wasteland Raider]

It's just "weaponsmith," not "master weaponsmith," Taven.

[Taven]

It's just "weaponsmith," not "master weaponsmith," Taven.

That seems confusing, since it is listed on the extended subguilds list as "Master Weaponsmith". I think it should either be changed on the list to read "Weaponsmith" or have the look up changed.

But you are right, just weaponsmith works. Thanks!

[Morgenes]

I've gone through and cleaned up formatting and naming of these new helpfiles.  Please post here if you see any further issues.

[Nyr]

2) The magick subguilds look neat (I would definitely want to play one someday), but I was wondering why you decided against any elementalist subguilds?

elementalist or elementalist not, there is no half-ass

[Akoto]

I do not think journeyman is too high a rank for weapon skill bumping. I've attained that in about ten or so days of semi-regular hunting, no sparring involved. Since you're spending karma for this, and the character is starting with some life experience, I believe it's fine. You also have to remember that most folks aren't going to have a heap of CGP, so by investing much into a weapon skill, they're neglecting complementary combat abilities which will have to be caught up in order to fight at one's full potential.

Beyond journeyman, I would probably put up a wall or increase the cost to 2 CGP.

[Thunkkin]

Looks great! Thanks staff!

My last special app required me to lose a starting skill and the two skills that branched from it in order to raise my cooking skill CAP from advanced to master. This new system seems far more sensible and equitable and it looks like it will allow for some great creativity.

[NOFUN]

Is it kosher to take an elementalist guild and a extended magick subguild? Or is it one or the other?

[FantasyWriter]

Is it kosher to take an elementalist guild and a extended magick subguild? Or is it one or the other?

Hehe, I've asked that two or three times already.... must be a seeeeekrit.

[Morgenes]

Is it kosher to take an elementalist guild and a extended magick subguild? Or is it one or the other?

Hehe, I've asked that two or three times already.... must be a seeeeekrit.

It's been stated already that the new magicker subguilds are Sorcery subguilds.  You cannot be both an elementalist and a sorcerer, so to spell it out, no, you cannot have both an elementalist guild and magicker subguild.

[Delusion]

I do not think journeyman is too high a rank for weapon skill bumping. I've attained that in about ten or so days of semi-regular hunting, no sparring involved. Since you're spending karma for this, and the character is starting with some life experience, I believe it's fine. You also have to remember that most folks aren't going to have a heap of CGP, so by investing much into a weapon skill, they're neglecting complementary combat abilities which will have to be caught up in order to fight at one's full potential.

Beyond journeyman, I would probably put up a wall or increase the cost to 2 CGP.

Seems viable to do that with a warrior, sure. Other guilds? Not so much at all. Weapon skills increase extremely slowly compared to pretty much everything else.

[Twilight]

I thought originally all master crafter subguilds would be be able to mastercraft?

The help for Master Tailor and Master and Weaponsmith say "unique designs" which makes it pretty clear that they can.  The subguilds for Master Crafter, Master Armorsmith, and Master Jeweler do not have this, or similar, verbage.  It would be nice if some consistent verbage was used so that down the line someone doesn't have to ferret it out.  Now, if it was left out because only 2 of 5 Master get master crafting...that would make many pandas sad.