The Reveal Skill/command

[Bacon]

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> lo

A room, just a plain ass room. [NESW]

*a strange shadow*
The tall, muscular man is standing here.
The short, skinny woman is sitting at an agafari table here.

>reveal shadow muscular

(Echo to you:)

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You point out a strange shadow to the tall, muscular man.

(Echo to the tall, muscular man:) -If successful.-

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The scanly, scanner man points out a strange shadow to you.

-If it fails.-

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The scanly, scanner man gestures toward something, but you aren't sure what they're pointing at.

(If your reveal skill beats the hidden character's hide then they will be visible to the person you revealed them to for a period of time. The hidden person can try to hide again to nullify any reveal in effect on them.)

(Echo to the hidden sneaky person:)

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The scanly, scanner man attempts to point you out to the tall, muscular man.

(Echo to the short, skinny woman or others in the room:)

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The scanly, scanner man looks at the tall, muscular man and gestures toward something.

Give it only to those that already get the scan skill. Make it have a skill check vs. the hidden creature/person. Make it so that only one target can be revealed to a single second target.

[Nyr]

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say (pointing at ~shadow)Hey, what's that?

there, I put it in the game for you, retroactively. 

Coding in this mess seems like a lot of work for little benefit in addition to more policing of people; still don't see a reason why we would want to do this.  Why do you want to un-hide the hidden guy (in any fashion, to any single person or to everyone)?  What is he doing that is so bad?

[brytta.leofa]

Why do you want to un-hide the hidden guy (in any fashion, to any single person or to everyone)?  What is he doing that is so bad?

He's in our apartment and that's creepy.

[Bacon]

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say (pointing at ~shadow)Hey, what's that?

there, I put it in the game for you, retroactively.  

Coding in this mess seems like a lot of work for little benefit in addition to more policing of people; still don't see a reason why we would want to do this.  Why do you want to un-hide the hidden guy (in any fashion, to any single person or to everyone)?  What is he doing that is so bad?

Why should a hidden person, once their location is pointed out to someone else, remain hidden to them without having to move to a different hiding spot?

"See that guy over there crouched behind the barrel?"

"Nope, it's no good. Still can't see what you're pointing at even though it's right there and you're pointing at them."

Of course people would have to use it realistically. Anything can be abused if someone wants to and any abuse can be reported via the request tool and handled by our exceptional and evenhanded staff. I've also experienced the situation where you are chasing someone with hide, the only pc with you that can see them...can't do anything other than -attack- them, and the others who could try and subdue them, can't see them to do so. It leaves them in the situation where the choice is, kill them, or just let them go. This would open up more options.

[My 2 sids]

Why should a hidden person, once their location is pointed out to someone else, remain hidden to them?

Okay, if someone is hiding like a foot in front of another's face and still coded as hidden... that's poor RP/ code abuse.   But, what about this scenario?  Hasn't this ever happened to anyone??

"Honey, do you know where the TV remote is?"  "It's right there where you left it."  "Where??"  "Right there, in the family room!"  "I'm still not seeing it!!"  "OMG I'm pointing right at it!!"  "Well, I still can't see it!!!"  <walking over, pointing to obvious location> "Right here!"  "Oooooh."

Or

"Heh,  check out that guy over there."  "Where?"  "There.  The one with the hat."  "And glasses?"  "No."   "Where?"  "Yellow shirt"  "I see three guys in yellow shirts, no one has a hat."  "Well, he was right there but you took so long, you missed him."

Or

"There's your ball."  "Where?"  "Right there, by the tree."  "No, that's a leaf."  "Pretty sure it's your golf ball..."  "That's a brown leaf."  "Yes... and next to it?  "I don't see anything." etc. etc. etc.

[Bacon]

Sure, that that shouldn't be the case -all- the time. The way the code works currently, it is. As suggested, if it were a skill that can fail then both situations would be possible outcomes. Reveal fails to beat their hide? Then they can't tell what you're pointing at. It succeeds, then you see what they are trying to point out to you.

[Nyr]

Why should a hidden person, once their location is pointed out to someone else, remain hidden to them without having to move to a different hiding spot?

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The scanning dude is here.
The non-scanning dude is here.
A strange shadow is here, hiding.  (hidden dude)

The scanning dude says, in sirihish,
"Hey, what're you doing over there?"

You notice (or don't notice):  A hidden dude's eyes widen as he glances your way, drink in hand.
You notice (or don't notice):  A hidden dude eases away from his current position near the bar and makes his way past a clump of patrons there.


or maybe

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You notice (or don't notice):  A hidden dude heads out of the tavern.
You notice (or don't notice):  A hidden dude returns into the tavern wearing a different colored cloak, heading in behind a heavyset woman.

There, he moved, and is still hidden.

The point here is that this assumes quite a bit on the part of the hidden person; I for one would rather see hiding/hidden folks RP more appropriately and those that notice them to RP more appropriately.  Adding more tools to detect them and point them out only serves to make this more and more about code than RP.

edited to add another example and to clarify.

[Bacon]

Right, that's not the situation I have a problem with though. I'd rather not have the only options (as stated above) be: a) Kill the sneaky person you're chasing. or b) Just let them go. Having it possible for an option somewhere in between would be nice.

[Nyr]

You do have another option, available within existing code.

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say (pointing at ~shadow)Hey, what's that?

or a:

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say (peering over at ~shadow)Hmm, could've sworn I saw something...

or a

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say (frown lines etched into his face as he aims beady-black eyes into the desert expanse at ~shadow)I say, mate, I bet we've got ourselves a raptor.
say (dying horribly)Clever girl.


I know it's not new shiny code (it's just meshing of existing code), but it doesn't force the hidden guy (or gal, let's be equal opportunity hiders) to be revealed to anyone but those with an existing ability (scan) subject to its own checks, and it still lets people know that something is up. 

[Bacon]

That doesn't solve the issue. Not sure if we're on the same page. The only way for those without scan to interact with them, is for those with scan to attack them so that others can interact with them at all. Even if they icly don't want to harm them but just catch them. It forces people to do something OOC because of the code restrictions. Either attack them, when that's not what they want to do or let them go and do nothing when that is also not what they are looking to do.

[Nyr]

The issue being what, exactly?

[Bacon]

Just edited my post to explain further.

[Nyr]

You're correct, we are not on the same page.  I believe that if you include something in an emote, say, tell, talk, hemote, semote, etc., that's interaction.

[bcw81]

If you don't want to attack them, and you don't want to subdue/kick/bash/etc. them, then why exactly do you -need- to point them out? Are you going to go into a bar and yell and point at some random person melding with the crowd?

[Bacon]

If you don't want to attack them, and you don't want to subdue/kick/bash/etc. them, then why exactly do you -need- to point them out? Are you going to go into a bar and yell and point at some random person melding with the crowd?

I didn't say we might not want to subdue them for questioning with no intent to kill. Just that we didn't want to have to attack them.


Just because I don't think people read it:

I've also experienced the situation where you are chasing someone with hide, the only pc with you that can see them...can't do anything other than -attack- them, and the others who could try and subdue them, can't see them to do so. It leaves them in the situation where the choice is, kill them, or just let them go. This would open up more options.

[Bacon]

You're correct, we are not on the same page.  I believe that if you include something in an emote, say, tell, talk, hemote, semote, etc., that's interaction.

If they are hidden and you don't have scan you can't do any of those things and include them in it. Therefore, even with what you are saying, if you don't have scan you can't interact with them unless the person with scan attacks them to bring them out of hiding.

[bcw81]

So have the person who can see him try to subdue him?

[Marauder Moe]

If you don't want to attack them, and you don't want to subdue/kick/bash/etc. them, then why exactly do you -need- to point them out?

So that my large, muscular (but not particularly perceptive) friend can attack/subdue/kick/bash them.  

Looking at them seems like a viable option too.

[Bacon]

So have the person who can see him try to subdue him?

Very few pcs, if any have both scan -and- subdue.

[Nyr]

You're correct, we are not on the same page.  I believe that if you include something in an emote, say, tell, talk, hemote, semote, etc., that's interaction.

If they are hidden and you don't have scan you can't do any of those things and include them in it.

Nor are you entitled to.  That is the point I'm making here.  

If they're hidden, and you don't have scan, you won't notice anything and you aren't missing anything.
If they're hidden, and you DO have scan, you may notice them and can possibly do something about it if you'd like, like include them in a command that allows emotes.  Or, like, look at them.

[Bacon]

Okay so just have the scanner attack them. Gotcha.

[bcw81]

So have the person who can see him try to subdue him?

Very few pcs, if any have both scan -and- subdue.

Every PC can use subdue - With or without the skill. If you try and miss, the big guy can try afterwards.

[Nyr]

Okay so just have the scanner attack them. Gotcha.

You do have another option, available within existing code.

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say (pointing at ~shadow)Hey, what's that?

or a:

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say (peering over at ~shadow)Hmm, could've sworn I saw something...

or a

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say (frown lines etched into his face as he aims beady-black eyes into the desert expanse at ~shadow)I say, mate, I bet we've got ourselves a raptor.
say (dying horribly)Clever girl.


I know it's not new shiny code (it's just meshing of existing code), but it doesn't force the hidden guy (or gal, let's be equal opportunity hiders) to be revealed to anyone but those with an existing ability (scan) subject to its own checks, and it still lets people know that something is up. 

At this point I am wondering if you are ignoring reason because you don't like the answer you were given, or just not getting the point.  One of those is okay, and I'm happy to explain the point.  Communication commands are not attacks.  This is not exactly what the OP wants or what others have suggested here.  We don't always do what people want when they suggest new coded commands.  This is an explanation of something that achieves some of the underlying desires here using existing code.  It isn't new code, so no, it is not what the OP and some others want.  It doesn't transfer one's ability to scan into an ability to outright reveal people, no.  A couple other staffers and I believe at the time of this writing that reveal as suggested isn't feasible, and in addition, it isn't something that I think we want to do.  It is possible it could get reviewed at any point and implemented in some fashion, but it seems to me to be unlikely, which is why I don't want to get anyone's hopes up about a cool idea.  I'm just one staffer here, sharing some opinions, but that comes after having seen lots of code get implemented over the years and having a hand in some of it myself from time to time.  It's not often that a code idea shared on the forum gets a stamp of approval or denial by a dedicated coding staffer.  If you want that stamp every time, that's an unrealistic expectation.  Us non-coding staffers are your next best thing, as we've been involved in the majority of the topics on the front page of this forum.

Being told "no" isn't fun sometimes.  Being told "you can use this other method already" doesn't make that other method implausible or impossible, though.  Not liking that other method doesn't mean it ceases to exist as an option for other people.  I understand that you don't like it and would prefer a different answer, but you should at least acknowledge that the alternative is an option in reality (even if you wouldn't do this yourself).

[Synthesis]

I think this is pretty much a non-issue anyway, in PvP terms, because the only PCs scan will actually pick up are total noobs.  (exceptions for half-giant sneaks and various sorts of magick).  If you can spot the guy with scan, chances are any fresh-out-of-the-box warrior will be able to rip his head off and shit down his neck.  Chances are also high that it's completely harmless, because all his other skills will be just as crappy as his hide skill.

That's my totally metagaming analysis, anyway.  Yes, I'm aware there are other exceptions to this general observation.  You don't have to point them out.

[Qzzrbl]

Guys, guys, guys.... Guys.... Check it.

The long-nosed, waspish man exclaims in Sirihish,
  "There's someone under my bed! Right there! Don't you see him?!!!"

The tall, big half-giant says in Sirihish, rumbling as he peers under the bed,
  "No."

Panicking now, the long-nosed, waspish man says in Sirihish, waving his arms,
  "But he's RIGHT. THERE."

Helpfully as she peers under the bed, too, the cinnamon-sprinkled, pale-eyed buxom woman says in Sirihish, breathily,
  "Weeeellllllll shit...."

The cinnamon-sprinkled, pale-eyed buxom woman guards the long-nosed, waspish man.

The tall, big half-giant guards the long-nosed, waspish man.

You Notice: A strange shadow looks apprehensive as all hell at all of the competent guards guarding his mark.

You Notice: A strange shadow stealthily moves west.