The Reveal Skill/command

[Jeshin]

I'm sure we've all been in a situation where one PC can see a hidden PC/NPC and the other couldn't. Is there a reason that it's impossible to 'reveal' these PCs without tripping crimcode in most instance. Something like reveal shadow or point shadow would make a lot of sense.

[allieday1]

That would be a nice code. Can't count the times i wish I could just bump something into view and not have to attack or hard code to get it from hiding

[muddy]

but if your in a tavern shouldn't the RP be that they are just blended in amongst all the other VNPCs, or what is the proper RP? If you could point them out to others that don't see him/her wouldn't it be like you saying "look don't you see that average looking guy sitting with all the other average looking folks?

[Gunnerblaster]

Well, if it happens in a tavern or something, easiest way is to start a brawl. Non-crim, coded effects that should break the target's hidden status.

[Thunkkin]

The long-nosed, waspish man exclaims in Sirihish,
  "There's someone under my bed! Right there! Don't you see him?!!!"

The tall, big half-giant says in Sirihish, rumbling as he peers under the bed,
  "No."

Panicking now, the long-nosed, waspish man says in Sirihish, waving his arms,
  "But he's RIGHT. THERE."

Helpfully as she peers under the bed, too, the cinnamon-sprinkled, pale-eyed buxom woman says in Sirihish, breathily,
  "I don't see anything either, Overseer. But I'd get under your bed ... if you wanted me to ..."

The cinnamon-sprinkled, pale-eyed buxom woman flutters her eyelashes.

The long-nosed, waspish man roles his eyes.

You Notice: A strange shadow draws a wicked-looking dagger.

The long-nosed, waspish man says in Sirihish, with a resigned sigh,
  "Well, that about wraps it up for this merchant. Serves me right for hiring warriors."

[musashi]

I would like this idea myself.

[roughneck]

I think it's best left up to rp.

If you're hiding and someone is calling you out and pointing you out to a big group of people and you don't make yourself unhidden or promptly high-tail it out of the area, you suck.

There's always the kill command, that makes people unhidden in a hurry.

Or give them a heavy bag of rocks, I bet being encumbered makes hiding difficult (just kidding Nyr).

If something like this went in I would want a nice long delay so you couldn't spam 'reveal' the way you can spam 'look' when you're having difficulty passing your scan.

I would rather see everyone get journeyman scan.  At least then you can only get shadow-pwnd by someone with a bit of skill, and warriors would be able to hunt some creatures which like to hide.  I doubt that would ever happen though.

[Delirium]

I'd want this for NPCs more than I'd want it for PCs.

"Yeah, Sarge, there's a tembo right there. Yeah, right there. No, right THERE."

Have a chance of failure (NPC movement?) and we're all good.

[Taven]

Well, if it happens in a tavern or something, easiest way is to start a brawl. Non-crim, coded effects that should break the target's hidden status.

I don't think this is true.

[musashi]

but if your in a tavern shouldn't the RP be that they are just blended in amongst all the other VNPCs, or what is the proper RP? If you could point them out to others that don't see him/her wouldn't it be like you saying "look don't you see that average looking guy sitting with all the other average looking folks?

The thing about this is that no one really knows how to react to spotting hidden characters because the information you get is very very limited.

You see a shadowy blur.

Ok ... is that someone using ranger-style hide tactics in a tavern, crouching down behind the coat rack and trying to blend in via his own cloak?

Is is someone trying to blend into the crowd, constantly shifting from place to place, imitating the activities of the other patrons?

Is it someone who's levitating four feet off the ground protected by an invisibility spell?

Who knows.  

[Tisiphone]

New want, tied to this (and maybe already true, but should be explicit): change ldesc should not break hide.

[Jeshin]

  Revealing hidden people solely by RP is fine in theory. Just like robbing them solely with RP is fine in theory. I've sat bleeding in the sanctuary talking to and pointing at a hidden assassin who had just knifed me. Everyone was like 'oh that sucker must be crazy!' Even though, clearly I was indicating the location of this hidden player. They remained hidden.

Perhaps it wouldn't have to break their hide but use your scan check to momentarily reveal them in an echo. This would indicate to people that there is in fact someone there, but not remove their hide completely.

The keen-eyed man reveals the drab stormcloaked man!

Any suggestions relating to some way of indicating to non-scan players that something sneaky is going on. Which also gives them some form of reaction would be helpful as well.

[Gunnerblaster]

Lol. Kiss finally has a use!

Code Select Expand

>K shadow

You kiss the dark-haired, squinty-eyed elf, effectively breaking his hide!

[bcw81]

I think this skill should be left to the players to RP, and never be hardcoded.

Also, Jeshin, point number 2 is already in game with LOOK.

[Ouroboros]

New want, tied to this (and maybe already true, but should be explicit): change ldesc should not break hide.

Perhaps the drop code could be Frankenstein'ed with the hide code, to accept arguments...

>hide
>*a shadow is here*

>hide (sneaking up to some crates)
>Sneaking up to some crates, the sneaky guy vanishes.
>*a shadow is here*

>hide behind a crate (sneaking up to some crates)
>Sneaking up to some crates, the sneaky guy vanishes.
>*a shadow is here, behind a crate*

While not directly linked to a reveal, it would certainly be helpful to know where the shadow is hiding so if you wanted to rp revealing them you could actually point in some direction and hope they respect the rp.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

I actually think reveal is probably a good idea. It's realistic. If somebody in real life points out something to me which was previously hidden or unnoticed, I now can see it. I don't have to find it myself.

Ever go Easter Egg Hunting?

I'm down for reveal.

[musashi]

Ever go Easter Egg Hunting?

I can't argue with this  

But if we're gonna do it, I say we do it big!

> reveal blur (reveals the hidden person to the entire room)

> reveal blur amos (discreetly reveals the hidden person to amos only, with a chance others will notice as well based on their watch. The chance goes up considerably if they are currently watching you)

[Bacon]

I seem to remember the search command (or something similar) used to be able to reveal hidden characters a long time ago. Was this taken out?

[Potaje]

I think some kind of means to reveal hidden characters/mobs is a good idea.

I support the notion as logical.

No, I don't trust pc's to adhere to showing themselves due to someone rping spotting them and calling them out and so, it should be hard coded, with a short to moderate delay, not a long one, or with command emotes.

[Nyr]

I think it unlikely.  Methods for detecting hidden things exist.  Rely on the PCs that can do so, it gives them (and you) something else to do.

[Potaje]

I think it unlikely.  Methods for detecting hidden things exist.  Rely on the PCs that can do so, it gives them (and you) something else to do.

Its not about detecting them, its about those characters that can detect them, making it possible to draw what they detect out for others. Enhancing the function of the existing skill set.

IMHO

[edited to add] With out physical conflict, i.e. with out having to attack the hidden person. (mostly good for in city situations, but applicable to the wider game world.)

[Marauder Moe]

I think it unlikely.  Methods for detecting hidden things exist.  Rely on the PCs that can do so, it gives them (and you) something else to do.

If I'm understanding the idea right, you still rely on those PCs.  It just that those PCs would be more useful in that they could, in turn, rely on other PCs to (codedly) interact with the hidden quarry rather than only being able to do it themselves.

Thumbs up from me.

[Nyr]

I understand the idea, but I do think it is unlikely that this would be implemented for the reasons indicated.  There are some other downsides to it as well.

This would extend a skill that one PC has to other PCs that do not have the skill--akin to following a ranger or other person with direction sense, except in this respect, the bonus is against a particular PC, singling them out.  In addition, it removes advantages for sneaky guilds without regard for roleplay they may be doing.  Frankly, I could see this being abused far more by those that already use scan to unrealistic or annoying effect (mid-conversation at a bar, but they decide to stop in order to stand and scan the room).  What's to stop a PC from abusing the reveal command to just nix any sneaky RP going on?  At least with the current system, a scan-tastic PC will just scare off a sneaky PC.  With the new command, you'd have them identified far more quickly.

In addition, it seems to be all about "detection without invoking crim-code" in this thread.  Why do you want to auto-unhide the hidden guy?  What is he doing that is so bad?

[Tisiphone]

Maybe instead of automatic success, success on a reveal check could massively penalize the hide skill of the hidden person and force a reroll, effective only for a short time? This way reveal wouldn't be a 'sure' thing on success.

After all, I've been in both situations, and I bet so has everyone else here. I've pointed something out to someone who saw it immediately afterwards, and I've been pointed to something that the pointer thought obvious, only to continue to have trouble seeing it, much to the exasperation of my companion.

Either way, the reveal command should definitely be an opposed roll vs. hide, with a lower skillcap than scan.

[valeria]

If it was something like 'reveal X to Y' that allowed the person who could see the hidden person/animal/whatever to point it out to another person in the room.  It wouldn't necessarily have to unhide them to the whole room for open identification.  And if it echoed to the person being pointed out so that they could notice it and haul ass if they so desired, I don't see how it would allow a scantastic PC to nix all the sneaky RP going on.  The sneaky would still be sneaky, they would still have whatever chances to sneak up on the scantastic PC as they would otherwise have, but it would however allow that scantastic PC to point out a danger to their otherwise super handicapped unscantastic guard.

It would be useful in a couple of situations.  My merchant and her guard are hanging out in an apartment.  My merchant notices an assassin follow them us.  I could point them out to the guard instead of flying at them with my fists.  While the guard is looking where I am pointing, and can now see that there's a shadow that shouldn't be there, the assassin could hightail it or attack anyway.

My good hunter is trying to teach a bad hunter how to hunt.  I notice a sneaky critter and point them out to the bad hunter.  While the bad hunter is looking where I'm pointing, he can go after the critter without me having to attack it.

I don't understand how that would remove advantages for sneaky guilds without regard to the roleplay they might be doing.  The sneaky would have to come upon a person who can see them anyway, and then ignore that the person who can see them is pointing them out to someone else.  The sneaky could beat a hasty retreat in the face of someone who can obviously see them... instead of just ignoring that the merchant can see them, even though there is a guard there and the merchant is pointing right at them, knowing that codedly there is no way the guard would be able to target them anyway.  If the merchant pointing the sneaky out to the guard actually had an effect, and the guard wanted to invoke the crime code instead of the merchant, they could.