Discussion Thread: Karma Changes

[drunkendwarf]

Also, has there been any consideration given to allowing characters to access the pool for skill bumps post chargen? With everything tied into the karma pool no one could say it'd be done lightly since it affects what's accessible for your next character, but it seems like that could create an option for folks looking for a way to raise skills while offline.

+1 to the casual player. At least they can slowly bump skills over time at essentially no cost (if they only bump 1 a month or whatever the CGP regen is going to be)  if they can't manage to make it online to do it IG. And they're still not going to match up to someone that IS playing, and bumping multiple skills during that period. This is an awesome idea.

[brytta.leofa]

Also, has there been any consideration given to allowing characters to access the pool for skill bumps post chargen? With everything tied into the karma pool no one could say it'd be done lightly since it affects what's accessible for your next character, but it seems like that could create an option for folks looking for a way to raise skills while offline.

+1 to the casual player. At least they can slowly bump skills over time at essentially no cost (if they only bump 1 a month or whatever the CGP regen is going to be)  if they can't manage to make it online to do it IG. And they're still not going to match up to someone that IS playing, and bumping multiple skills during that period. This is an awesome idea.

+2.  This could streamline an existing option (Skill Change) in the Request Tool.

You might still be required to submit logs of training sessions, but, if you had the CGP available, approval would be usual.  Without the CGP, you just wouldn't be allowed to do it.

[Sunburned]

Also, has there been any consideration given to allowing characters to access the pool for skill bumps post chargen? With everything tied into the karma pool no one could say it'd be done lightly since it affects what's accessible for your next character, but it seems like that could create an option for folks looking for a way to raise skills while offline.

+1 to the casual player. At least they can slowly bump skills over time at essentially no cost (if they only bump 1 a month or whatever the CGP regen is going to be)  if they can't manage to make it online to do it IG. And they're still not going to match up to someone that IS playing, and bumping multiple skills during that period. This is an awesome idea.

+2.  This could streamline an existing option (Skill Change) in the Request Tool.

You might still be required to submit logs of training sessions, but, if you had the CGP available, approval would be usual.  Without the CGP, you just wouldn't be allowed to do it.

I like this, a lot.

[Ktavialt]

So, just saying thanks for all the hard work staff.

[HavokBlue]

I don't like that desert elves incur a cost. I was under the impression that the first 3 options would not subtract karma? Desert elves roles are already, in my experience, isolated enough. I don't think limiting them even more will be fun for delf players.

[Delusion]

I don't like that desert elves incur a cost. I was under the impression that the first 3 options would not subtract karma? Desert elves roles are already, in my experience, isolated enough. I don't think limiting them even more will be fun for delf players.

As I understand it, Guilds and races which used to require 3 karma or less will not, by themselves, incur a cost. I may have misread something, though.

[HavokBlue]

In Morgenes' example, choosing a desert elf incurs a cost. Maybe I'm misreading something?

[Jengal]

I kind of like how desert elves cost. It's the only role that I can afford right now and I feel it'd give me an incentive to keep the character going on longer since my main problem is getting bored and storing/dying.

[Desertman]

I play only basic race mundanes.

I play a lot of older guys.

Finally a way for me to make my older "experienced" characters not get stomped into the ground/outshined by 15 year old characters who have been alive for a game year.

This new system FTW.

[drunkendwarf]

Imagine also if you didn't manage to play too much. The proposed idea of allowing folks to use CGP's to skill bump AFTER char gen would also make sure you don't get surpassed (at least, as badly) by those same characters if they ARE playing more than you.

[Cutthroat]

Also, has there been any consideration given to allowing characters to access the pool for skill bumps post chargen? With everything tied into the karma pool no one could say it'd be done lightly since it affects what's accessible for your next character, but it seems like that could create an option for folks looking for a way to raise skills while offline.

+1 to the casual player. At least they can slowly bump skills over time at essentially no cost (if they only bump 1 a month or whatever the CGP regen is going to be)  if they can't manage to make it online to do it IG. And they're still not going to match up to someone that IS playing, and bumping multiple skills during that period. This is an awesome idea.

+2.  This could streamline an existing option (Skill Change) in the Request Tool.

You might still be required to submit logs of training sessions, but, if you had the CGP available, approval would be usual.  Without the CGP, you just wouldn't be allowed to do it.

I like this. It would help casual players out even more.

[HavokBlue]

One day, that byn breed everyone wails on shows up to practice and stomps you all.

[Kronibas]

I like this change and appreciate the work that's been put into it.  I'm really excited about the karma subguilds!  I hope there are like... three dozen different new ones to choose from.

So yeah, pretty awesome... Just saying 

[RogueGunslinger]

Not all skills in zalanthas are equal, some go up pretty damn slow, because they are uber powerful. With this new system it treats all skills the same, 1 point will always bump up a skill level. Is there any way to keep people from rolling out the gate with some very badass characters?

[brytta.leofa]

One day, that byn breed everyone wails on shows up to practice and stomps you all.

I haven't really played a sparring character since skill levels went visible, but one mastery level per month, in most skills, is nothing interesting.  (I could see weapon skills being ineligible for this kind of advancement, or requiring double points.)  Anyone who's sparring regularly should easily blow past you.

It would mostly help with the same sort of situations for which the Skill Change request was used: my ranger in the Arm of the Dragon wants to learn archery; his sergeant wants him to learn archery; the glorious army of the Highlord has 50 000 other soldiers virtually practicing archery inside the city walls-- but I only play ten hours a week and we don't have a target object and it's dumb for us to do hunting trips.  Skills that should be improving but aren't.

[Morrolan]

Imagine also if you didn't manage to play too much. The proposed idea of allowing folks to use CGP's to skill bump AFTER char gen would also make sure you don't get surpassed (at least, as badly) by those same characters if they ARE playing more than you.

People seem to be jumping on the bandwagon with this idea.  I think it is too powerful.

Besides, it would be usable by the players who were playing a lot as well.  Having a skill-bump as part of your background is one thing, but playing a character "full time" and getting an additional bump every month for "free" seems to be incredibly uber-powerful, difficult to police, easy to abuse, and discouraging to new players.

And casual players would still not be able to keep up if this were available to all players with karma.

[Taven]

Also, has there been any consideration given to allowing characters to access the pool for skill bumps post chargen? With everything tied into the karma pool no one could say it'd be done lightly since it affects what's accessible for your next character, but it seems like that could create an option for folks looking for a way to raise skills while offline.

+1 to the casual player. At least they can slowly bump skills over time at essentially no cost (if they only bump 1 a month or whatever the CGP regen is going to be)  if they can't manage to make it online to do it IG. And they're still not going to match up to someone that IS playing, and bumping multiple skills during that period. This is an awesome idea.

+2.  This could streamline an existing option (Skill Change) in the Request Tool.

You might still be required to submit logs of training sessions, but, if you had the CGP available, approval would be usual.  Without the CGP, you just wouldn't be allowed to do it.

I like this. It would help casual players out even more.

I also like this. As long as it requires logs and IC work to do, it could be really great.

[RogueGunslinger]

I don't see how its helping casuals if you have to log in and RP to get it. It's only helping off-peakers that way.

[Spider]

I've been playing this game for a few years now, and for the past year I haven't had the play times required to really sink into a role. I thought with my recent change in scenery that perhaps I might get a chance to get back in, but alas that is not the case.

Given this, I've had a bit of an issue with the karma situation, and I'm glad that staff is making an effort to change it. It's not going to change completely, but I do feel as if there are more options available to me now as a casual below the radar type player. I play hard and fast, making lots of mistakes, but I have a blast doing it.

So let's say that I am a novice karma level with full regen, so that would give me 2/2. Let's also say that I hit the special app button at char gen, and it gets excepted, so that puts me at 5/2. Would this allow me to play magicker guilds like a drovian? Or is drovian/elkrosian and higher(in the current karma tree), going to be available to only veterans and above? Do veterans get the opportunity to play drovians and above? Or is it only available to spec apped "Veterans" and higher?

[jstorrie]

If I'm interpreting Morgenes' explanation properly, then yes, you would get to play a drovian (or whatever else is available for n+3 or less karma.)

Your karma would then drop to 1 current/2 max, and would take either one or another four months to fully regenerate. I think one, but I'm not sure about that bit.

[Adhira]

We are not planning to allow CGP to be spent at any time other than chargen.

[EldritchOrigins]

It seems like putting karma on a cooldown will restrict inexperienced players the most, complicating the learning curve.  It takes time to learn to play karma guilds/races, and this seems like it'll only drag out the process.

I would think everyone would think twice about creating these roles because of the costs involved.

It seems like it'll reduce the number of karma guilds and races, which is maybe what the staff want.  This will slow or stop the rate at which players learn to play these roles well (either from lack of practice or lack of exposure to them to learn about them), eventually leading to an eventual drought of good talent for these roles.

[EldritchOrigins]

I forgot to post that boosted up subguilds that can be used with charter generation points is a great idea.  It meshes well with the karma system, allowing the greatest benefit to lower/non karma roles while keeping the options open for higher karma roles (even if they'd have to be through special application).  It saves veteran players time that they might use to raise/grind their skills to an acceptable level, freeing them up to intact, drive and participating in plots.  While also allowing them to round out their charter so that not all new characters (not counting special apps) have to be unskilled.  The system seems well rounded and fits very well.

[brytta.leofa]

It seems like putting karma on a cooldown will restrict inexperienced players the most, complicating the learning curve.  It takes time to learn to play karma guilds/races, and this seems like it'll only drag out the process.

Learning to play a sorc could be pretty rough.  But people with low to moderate karma can only, at worst, set themselves back a few months.

I think it's a good thing that this encourages non-risky play; many of us play PCs that are really insanely oblivious to danger.

[EldritchOrigins]

I think it's a good thing that this encourages non-risky play; many of us play PCs that are really insanely oblivious to danger.

More players won't even choose to try some karma roles because of the upfront investment, instead choosing easier things that they know that can do.  Why play a caster when instead there is the choice to play of a mundane role with a karma subguild and/or skill boosts that have no inherent ic restrictions that come with them.

Risky role-play, when it is unrealistic of course, is bad.  But the risk I'm talking about is really conflict that is good for the game, and fun.  Some examples: Telling the Tuluki woman/man that you love that you are an abomination.  A sorcerer/psionicist/elementalist living in Tuluk, because that is their home and they don't know what else to do.  A mul telling a templar where to stick it.  A nilazi coming out to his/her elementalist friends that he/she is touched by the void.  These are the kinds of risk I'm talking about, those that create conflict.  Not going out hunting alone because of boredom.  That's eventually always a bad idea.