Can we have more interesting spice?

[Nana]

tl;dr: can we have a new spice or two, useful to non-violent, non-mudsexing characters? Something codedly useful to boot.

What follows in this post is a quote, which is extremely whiny in tone. What I am trying to do is quote someone who might feel this strongly about wanting some new spice. However, I don't personally care whether or not new spices get added. The game is great as is, and I personally like spice fine as it is. But I speak for the people, and someone out there does feel this way.

Hopefully that makes me immune to any attempts to troll or flame me, which I seem to get every other post I make here. Yeah, I'm noticing a pattern. Okay I'm done, enjoy.

Nana

    <rant>

I formally raise for discussion the notion that spice, as it is, sucks far too much to get anyone but the typical war-spice huffing hunters to want to do it regularly. For now, let's forget those non-soldiering PCs who do smoke it, namely, obscenely rich magickers, the obscenely rich salaried clan members, and the Kuracis, all of whom do not count.

Yeah there are some spices that might be fun -- IF I was playing a whore -- but sorry, I am not looking for aphrodisiacs. I'm looking for something that would be habit forming. I want to get ADDICTED and I don't want everyone to look at my character, addicted to this new spice X, and say, "Oh, gee, that player just wanted their character to be addicted to spice to look cool, but otherwise there's no reason why they would have gotten hopelessly hooked." Get me?

Therefore once I again I suggest that truly useful (preferably not more "help me kill stuff") spices be coded and added. I don't care what they do, you guys would know what's actually useful, surprise me, etc, etc. I want to do spice but I'm sorry, I also want to pay my fucking play-money rent, and I don't feel like wasting my (precious) RL hours grinding sid just to smoke a little useless shit just to show off to people, no offense to you grinders who have time for that.

(For those of you who aren't convinced by my twinkish, f#!$ you argument, maybe you'd be intrigued by the IC consequences of a highly addictive, powerful spice suddenly inundating the market, creating economic and political instability and therefore leading to new plots.)

final notes:

I raise this issue because I have officially "been here a while" now, and I simply don't see that much spice intrigue going on. I am not *currently* playing a Kuraci, and no, I'm not trying to get them richer. Keep in mind this wouldn't necessarily do that, as other events could balance any potential gains they may make with a new -good- spice.

Finally, of course I understand a decision this drastic rests entirely in the IMMs' hands, and nobody else.

</rant>

[lordcooper]

Powerful, highly addictive drugs are generally not taken IRL because they give some temporary boost to your skills.

The most useful spice w/should probably be the most pleasurable.

E: If you're after the opportunity to play a real down and dirty mess of an addict, you already can.

[Zoan]

If the drug from Limitless existed, I would be taking it forever, be damned the side-effects.

[Barzalene]

It sucks?

Ok.

[Nana]

It sucks?

Ok.

As evidenced by the fact that I rarely see addicted PCs, yes.

Powerful, highly addictive drugs are generally not taken IRL because they give some temporary boost to your skills.

The most useful spice w/should probably be the most pleasurable.

E: If you're after the opportunity to play a real down and dirty mess of an addict, you already can.

Wrong, a lot of people take all kinds of drugs to "boost their skills." Coffee, perhaps? There isn't coffee in Armageddon. Neither is there anything with what I feel is a well-coded version of tobacco's effects on the brain.

[Samoa]

mansa played an extremely well-known and high-profile spice addict some many years ago. It seemed to work OK for him.

[Jeshin]

Lets look at spice shall we?

You have jittery energetic spice
You have heart thumpity blood rush spice
You have brooding and face bashing spice
You have the imaginary confidence spice
You have the sex spice
You have the chill spice
You have the tree hugger spice
There's even shrooms spice... man!

Every single RL drug is represented above. Lack of documented information on spice and maybe a lack of imagination at possible RP options from the echoes is what makes spice seem bland.


***EDIT
Technically there is a coded addiction to spice which I've never seen on my own PCs. I have seen one PC going through spice withdrawls in Tuluk in the last year.

[Nana]

Okay, that's maybe three people so far who retorted to my argument with "lack of imagination" points.

I guess that means 95% of the playerbase has a lack of imagination, which is a far cry from the ~40% of the U.S. that drinks coffee, most of them daily.

Come on people, players barely drink alcohol, and many fewer use any other kind of substance. Aren't you all bored of just eating and drinking water?

[Nana]

mansa played an extremely well-known and high-profile spice addict some many years ago. It seemed to work OK for him.

For now, let's forget those non-soldiering PCs who do smoke it, namely, obscenely rich magickers, the obscenely rich salaried clan members, and the Kuracis, all of whom do not count.

Thanks for the post Samoa but I'm asking for drugs that lots and lots of people would want to use and get hooked to.

The problem is that all the spice in the game now tries to replicate the "hard drugs," and they're too expensive, too useless. Good for high profile addicts. Not good for the regulars.

[RogueGunslinger]

Mmm. Can you suggest a new coded spice affect that is useful in the ways you suggest? It's like you're trying to squeeze us for ideas without being able to come up with your own. Saying we really need [something] but are inable to specify exactly what that [something] is.

[Nana]

Sure, Roguegunslinger.

At the basis of all my suggestions is the creation of a new need. As it stands there's really nothing that people need enough to warrant making any new drugs. So maybe a new need could be created.

I guess this would trouble a lot of people, but tiredness is very generously coded as is. As it stands people can go for some number of days, I don't know exactly how many, before they start to feel the coded effects of going without sleep or rest. And those effects seem to be quite mild.

If that code were mode tougher, than people would, as they are in real life, be in a fairly constant struggle to maintain alertness, energy, and so on. Living a "healthy" lifestyle with fairly regular sleep would negate this, of course. But for people who have irregular work/sleep schedules then over time this would create an "addiction" to things that restore energy, with sleep cravings.

Or, there could be a spice that temporarily mollifies that need for alertness and energy and give it to you.

AS I UNDERSTAND the current spices that do this don't handle this need in the way I describe, but they instead give a temporary boost to things such as how far you can travel. Those spices are useful but that's not the kind of thing one would end up needing on a daily basis.

ANYWAY: I don't think this needs too much more discussion on the boards, because I now have some ideas for things I might do ICly for this post, and I think they're feasible. So thank you, those of you who retorted to my OP, because having to defend the points just a little stimulated my thought process on the matter.

cheers.

[number13]

There's cheap, relatively easy to find spice alternatives in game right now -- at least four that I personally know of.  They have drug like effects.  Find out what they are, and try to play a peddler who sells these things for a few coins a piece.

The real problem is that spice code punishes regular users too harshly.  Though it's probably realistic, it cuts down severely on the number of PCs willing to buy drugs, because they don't want their stats to get futzed up.

EDIT to add:  Not to mention there's a variety of teas you can brew, which have various purported (if not coded) effects.  If you really want to add to list of drugs commonly consumed by the masses, I suggest apping either a Kuraci or Dasari family member and making it happen IG.  Or get yourself hired by one of the above as an enterprising herbalist.

[Nana]

There's cheap, relatively easy to find spice alternatives in game right now -- at least four that I personally know of.  They have drug like effects.  Find out what they are, and try to play a peddler who sells these things for a few coins a piece.

The real problem is that spice code punishes regular users too harshly.  Though it's probably realistic, it cuts down severely on the number of PCs willing to buy drugs, because they don't want their stats to get futzed up.

EDIT to add:  Not to mention there's a variety of teas you can brew, which have various purported (if not coded) effects.  If you really want to add to list of drugs commonly consumed by the masses, I suggest apping either a Kuraci or Dasari family member and making it happen IG.  Or get yourself hired by one of the above as an enterprising herbalist.

Ah, wow, thank you. Kudos to your post, you basically gave me the hints I needed to know about. I'll get cracking on this.

[Synthesis]

Spice sucks?  Uh, no.  You probably don't see many coded addicts in the PC population because it's pretty damn expensive, and nobody wants to spend the vast majority of their time doing repetitive bullshit just to support their PC's spice addiction.

When you say you want something "codedly useful," you're either talking about stats or skills.  There's already a spice for every stat.  There's at least one (maybe another) spice for regen.  There's a spice for certain skills.  There's one that's purely recreational AFAIK.  What else do you want?  It seems to me that the set of skills that could plausibly be boosted by spice is fairly limited, and is probably already fairly well-represented.

I mean, even the stuff that's purely recreational in real life is already fairly well-represented.  The major classes are sedatives/hypnotics, hallucinogens/entheogens, and stimulants...all of which are already represented by coded spices.

[manipura]

Wrong, a lot of people take all kinds of drugs to "boost their skills." Coffee, perhaps? There isn't coffee in Armageddon. Neither is there anything with what I feel is a well-coded version of tobacco's effects on the brain.

Look harder 

(Edited to fix my quoting mistake...and to add a winky...)

[number13]

Spice sucks?  Uh, no.  You probably don't see many coded addicts in the PC population because it's pretty damn expensive, and nobody wants to spend the vast majority of their time doing repetitive bullshit just to support their PC's spice addiction.

Spice is essentially free if you know where to find it. Ten minutes can net enough to last your PC a RL month. I stand by my statement -- there aren't that many addicts because people don't want to see their stats plummet.

[Old Kank]

Like Synthesis and others have said, there's already a spice for pretty much everything you could want.  We don't need more spice.

What we need is a better system of addiction.  Rather than just fucking up stats fairly early on, spice should give you cravings.  The effects should be bigger and last longer.  It should quell hunger and thirst, and maybe reduce injuries.  Up the ante for active spice use, rather than just using it as casual RP flavor.

[Synthesis]

Spice sucks?  Uh, no.  You probably don't see many coded addicts in the PC population because it's pretty damn expensive, and nobody wants to spend the vast majority of their time doing repetitive bullshit just to support their PC's spice addiction.

Spice is essentially free if you know where to find it. Ten minutes can net enough to last your PC a RL month. I stand by my statement -- there aren't that many addicts because people don't want to see their stats plummet.

Well, spice is free if you don't count the insane risk involved in doing anything around Red Storm, or all the time you have to spend foraging the spice-equivalents elsewhere.

[bcw81]

Spice sucks?  Uh, no.  You probably don't see many coded addicts in the PC population because it's pretty damn expensive, and nobody wants to spend the vast majority of their time doing repetitive bullshit just to support their PC's spice addiction.

Spice is essentially free if you know where to find it. Ten minutes can net enough to last your PC a RL month. I stand by my statement -- there aren't that many addicts because people don't want to see their stats plummet.

Well, spice is free if you don't count the insane risk involved in doing anything around Red Storm, or all the time you have to spend foraging the spice-equivalents elsewhere.

I would beg to state that you can get free spice in a very non-risk way with the right connections.

[Synthesis]

Well, yeah, when I was playing a merchant I was making so much coin that I had to do -something- with it, so I bought expensive shit and gave it away to my homies, but that's sort of an exception to the rule, since most people aren't running around with spam-crafting sugar daddies.

[bcw81]

I can't get too far into this, but lets just say that that's not the only way.

[Barzalene]

Now that Nana has complained about the sex and drugs on Arm, I'm waiting anxiously for the post on how our rock and roll sucks too.

[manipura]

On a day when I'm not feeling particularly....cheery, this

....most people aren't running around with spam-crafting sugar daddies.

and this

Now that Nana has complained about the sex and drugs on Arm, I'm waiting anxiously for the post on how our rock and roll sucks too.

definitely brought a smile to my face...

[askaran]

Dont want new spice. Want docs on the current ones.. Or atleast someone who knows what they're doing to tell me where to look.

[Cind]

maybe a spice that's white and looks like opal, opaque and makes your magick explode.

[Cutthroat]

I formally raise for discussion the notion that spice, as it is, sucks far too much to get anyone but the typical war-spice huffing hunters to want to do it regularly. For now, let's forget those non-soldiering PCs who do smoke it, namely, obscenely rich magickers, the obscenely rich salaried clan members, and the Kuracis, all of whom do not count.

Have you ever considered, possibly, that it's supposed to be that way? People who can afford drugs, and are interested in taking drugs, will buy them - people too poor to buy drugs either won't bother, or will buy it to the exclusion of buying necessities because they're addicted. Spice is a drug, obviously, but it is also a luxury of sorts. It's no wonder that there's a whole GMH focused on selling the best stuff.

I also think that a lot of the current spices that you say are for killing stuff can be useful in other applications. Instead of thinking "oh look, this spice boosts my strength", think about what that means not only for a soldier, but for a minor, laborer, etc. When you apply this line of thinking to other spices you'll quickly realize that the way spices are coded actually allows for a broader base of users than you think.

Dont want new spice. Want docs on the current ones.. Or atleast someone who knows what they're doing to tell me where to look.

You should try the 'discuss' command on spice-dealing NPCs. That's likely the closest we're going to get to public docs.

[askaran]

Wow. Cant believe I didn't think of that. Actually forgot the discuss command existed. Thankyou!

[boog]

Spice is fine and fun. Amen.

[Cind]

being able to skin a certain type of spice out of a kryl corpse.

[Samoa]

Dont want new spice. Want docs on the current ones.. Or atleast someone who knows what they're doing to tell me where to look.

Talk to a Kuraci.

[jstorrie]

I'm not sure what you mean by useful - spice is already useful as a roleplaying prop, and already useful in terms of the coded benefits it provides.

There's already a spice that's codedly helpful without necessarily being meant for combat (although it's equally useful to combat characters, I suppose.)

[Reiloth]

I think Nana is talking about crack.

In the real world, there are rich people drugs and poor people drugs. Cocaine (Tho) is for rich people.

There could be a watered down version, spliced with something else sort of nasty and weird that maybe has a much higher-high...That lasts a shorter amount of time, and is very, very addictive. Gangs (The Guild, Kurac) could release this into poor neighborhoods (The 'rinth, Allanak) and watch as the silly little poor people murder each other for money to buy this highly addictive, not very helpful (Though it seems like it at first) drug. Mmmmm.

(While I love this idea, I don't think Staff would be interested in coding new spice for Armageddon 1.0. Despite everyone's eyerolling and yawning at 2.0, I think this would be much better suited to that new enviroment, along with new poisons, new hunting systems, a new class system, a new magick system...)

[musashi]

I formally raise for discussion the notion that spice, as it is, sucks far too much to get anyone but the typical war-spice huffing hunters to want to do it regularly. For now, let's forget those non-soldiering PCs who do smoke it, namely, obscenely rich magickers, the obscenely rich salaried clan members, and the Kuracis, all of whom do not count.

I reject the premise.

[Qzzrbl]

Wait a minute.... Prolonged spice use kills your stats?

[Saellyn]

Wait a minute.... Prolonged spice use kills your stats?

Of course it does, why do you think the Byn has such low Wisdom scores?

[Nana]

I think Nana is talking about crack.

In the real world, there are rich people drugs and poor people drugs. Cocaine (Tho) is for rich people.

There could be a watered down version, spliced with something else sort of nasty and weird that maybe has a much higher-high...That lasts a shorter amount of time, and is very, very addictive. Gangs (The Guild, Kurac) could release this into poor neighborhoods (The 'rinth, Allanak) and watch as the silly little poor people murder each other for money to buy this highly addictive, not very helpful (Though it seems like it at first) drug. Mmmmm.

(While I love this idea, I don't think Staff would be interested in coding new spice for Armageddon 1.0. Despite everyone's eyerolling and yawning at 2.0, I think this would be much better suited to that new enviroment, along with new poisons, new hunting systems, a new class system, a new magick system...)

Yeah basically this. Thanks.

[Synthesis]

Eh, Thodeliv is more like opium, and it's not just for rich people.  I wouldn't extrapolate backward from the PC economy to the vNPC economy, because we all know the former is completely retarded with respect to most things.

[Archbaron]

I think Nana is talking about crack.

This sentences is hilarious out of context.

[Sephiroto]

Could we be able to sift all the spices?  That would be nice.

[AreteX]

New dwarven focus:  Become Scarface.

"JOO BONE SWORDS DEY CANT HURT MEH! YOU KANK-A-ROACH!"

On a more serious note:  From what I have encountered spice is fucking expensive.  In real life we have jobs that pay us every so often.  On the mud you have to spend valuable playtime actually earning sid, unless you have one of the codedly paid automatically jobs.

I mean if IRL you only got paid 100 dollars a month, and some cocaine cost 95 dollars of it.  You'd probably be less likely to even start or try it, let alone be addicted because you COULDNT BUY ENOUGH!  There would be other things:  Food, shelter, water.

If Arm would pay people while they were offline because they were virtually "grebbing" the entire week... then maybe.  But at its current implementation unless someone starts really undercutting the spice price I dont know how you manage to get it frequently enough without having a coded way to make tons of coin.

Maybe thats just my experience, though.

Im still making that dwarf.

[number13]

What passes for a street drug in the Rinth really is priced way, way too high. But! If it weren't easier to walk elsewhere and get cheaper stuff, I'd say that extreme price is a good thing, as it spurs rinthi PCs into enterprise to try to earn enough.

Try playing a spice-focused rinthi dwarf who doesn't know anything beyond the alleyways. He can't make it to Red Storm or Luirs, due to a crippling agoraphobia, but he -needs- that next hit. (pick out one of the more expensive spices for his personal favorite) Or a half-giant that just too stupid to make it out of the alleyways.  Or even just a human who starts the game severely addicted.  Try to figure out what you can do to earn enough 'sidian to get your fix, with the time you have available. No grebbing!  Your character isn't going to be on the House Jal gravy train or shoveling poop.

I've tried the above a few times, and it really does provide impetus for action.  It's pretty easy to justify your character mugging the shit out of PCs and NPCs alike when he needs a couple hundred coins every IG week, conning and/or begging from everyone you meet, or committing to even less savory courses of action.  And the addiction keeps you out of the Byn and other southside organizations for the most part -- otherwise it's just too easy to justify a semi-successful character buying his way out of the alleyways.

[Reiloth]

What passes for a street drug in the Rinth really is priced way, way too high. But! If it weren't easier to walk elsewhere and get cheaper stuff, I'd say that extreme price is a good thing, as it spurs rinthi PCs into enterprise to try to earn enough.

Try playing a spice-focused rinthi dwarf who doesn't know anything beyond the alleyways. He can't make it to Red Storm or Luirs, due to a crippling agoraphobia, but he -needs- that next hit. (pick out one of the more expensive spices for his personal favorite) Or a half-giant that just too stupid to make it out of the alleyways.  Or even just a human who starts the game severely addicted.  Try to figure out what you can do to earn enough 'sidian to get your fix, with the time you have available. No grebbing!  Your character isn't going to be on the House Jal gravy train or shoveling poop.

I've tried the above a few times, and it really does provide impetus for action.  It's pretty easy to justify your character mugging the shit out of PCs and NPCs alike when he needs a couple hundred coins every IG week, conning and/or begging from everyone you meet, or committing to even less savory courses of action.  And the addiction keeps you out of the Byn and other southside organizations for the most part -- otherwise it's just too easy to justify a semi-successful character buying his way out of the alleyways.

While I love that concept, it's pretty zany that a Player would have to jump through that many hoops and have that kind of concept in order to have a true spice-addict.

[Kronibas]

Could we be able to sift all the spices?  That would be nice.

Per the help files, some spices are refined from the raw product that's gathered from the Sea of Eternal Dust... so they don't occur naturally.

[Cind]

and the fact that most PCs are in positions to be able to have coded paying jobs or make lots of money helps. most of us aren't eating rotten petoch fruits.

i feel like experimenting with your spice kills stats thing to see if its true.

[Sephiroto]

Could we be able to sift all the spices?  That would be nice.

Per the help files, some spices are refined from the raw product that's gathered from the Sea of Eternal Dust... so they don't occur naturally.

Ah right right.  And we buy them from all those PC Kuraci in Storm, right?

[Anaiah]

Could we be able to sift all the spices?  That would be nice.

You cam get a raw version of every single type of spice in game from the wilds. Not every type is siftable, however, and that is purposeful. It exists, but where and in what form are great things to find out IC.

[janeshephard]

As evidenced by the fact that I rarely see addicted PCs, yes.

Spice effects last too long and spice is too easy to get. No one is going to have withdrawal symptoms when you can smoke up in the morning and be high for three days straight -- granted, this may require logging out to work.

[Cind]

i think a few spices having different effects on overdose apart from death would be neat. like, one would make you explode, or something.

[Feco]

like, one would make you explode, or something.

wat.

That is all.

[NOFUN]

I've really no idea where you need to gather spice, though I'm sure I'd be more inclined to look if it gave my characters some kind of buff/didn't rape my characters stats in the long run.

It just seems as though giving spice a buff would encourage players to play spice addicts for all the wrong reasons.

[janeshephard]

I've really no idea where you need to gather spice, though I'm sure I'd be more inclined to look if it gave my characters some kind of buff/didn't rape my characters stats in the long run.

It just seems as though giving spice a buff would encourage players to play spice addicts for all the wrong reasons.

Where you "need" to gather? I'm not sure if you're asking where to gather it or where it's gathered.

You can learn this easily in game by asking the right PCs. You can also learn even more "spice secrets" by finding the right PCs.

[Barzalene]

I think the stat nerf is a good thing. I think it's realistic. I wish it were extended to excessive drinking.

[Synthesis]

like, one would make you explode, or something.

wat.

That is all.

Call it the Jaxa POW!  Or maybe Muarki Melem.

[Bilanthri]

I always find it disappointing when, in a world where spice is acceptably used medicinally, recreationally, and for physical enhancement, that people will still bring over a RL attitude that smoking/sniffing is morally wrong. Unless you're an Allanaki loyalist, there's no reason to think of the use of spice as improper or immoral, and yet, even in Luir's, I've witnessed people get pissy about it. The attitudes presented usually remind me of the holier-than-thou attitude that became prevalent in the Pacific Northwest when smoking started to become illegal in public places. Though maybe I'm reading it wrong and I've met more 'Nakki's than I thought.

As for playing a character with an addict background, it seems like the scavenger sub-guild would be well suited to both the back-story and surviving while supporting your addiction. Also, make friends with your local pawn broker.

[chrisdcoulombe]

Spice is the second easiest thing in the game after salt.

[hyzhenhok]

I always find it disappointing when, in a world where spice is acceptably used medicinally, recreationally, and for physical enhancement, that people will still bring over a RL attitude that smoking/sniffing is morally wrong. Unless you're an Allanaki loyalist, there's no reason to think of the use of spice as improper or immoral, and yet, even in Luir's, I've witnessed people get pissy about it. The attitudes presented usually remind me of the holier-than-thou attitude that became prevalent in the Pacific Northwest when smoking started to become illegal in public places. Though maybe I'm reading it wrong and I've met more 'Nakki's than I thought.

As for playing a character with an addict background, it seems like the scavenger sub-guild would be well suited to both the back-story and surviving while supporting your addiction. Also, make friends with your local pawn broker.

I had a PC with horrible paranoia and social phobia, but she used spice to dull her fears and boost her confidence and thus interact with the outside world. She was an addict. She was fun to play.

But the way other PCs reacted when they realized my PC was addicted to spice, or the way they reacted when she busted out the spice in stressful or serious situations, just kind of killed it for me.

[Ktavialt]

You know what could be useful for roleplaying/consistency purposes, if during character generation certain questions were asked, with typical responses, about the character's beliefs re: certain things, i.e., and then what they write in response it gets stuck in their bio or something.  Something like:

People in the north are typically terrified about magick, where it is outlawed and feared, and magickers are killed on sight.  Many tribes of elves, humans and other also fear and hate magick, and that fear and hatred is often even a part of their tribal background.  People of Allanak generally fear magick as well, balking quietly at magick's legality, and the templarate's claims that their laws and gems control their magickers.  Aside from magickers themselves, only a small number of people do not overtly fear and avoid magick.  What is your character's feeling about magick?

[Character inserts response here or inserts "not determined yet" or somecrap].

etc. etc. etc. for spice, certain other races, nationalism for one city or another, among other things.

[Reiloth]

I dig the Daggerfall system.

[Ktavialt]

Didn't know that's "the daggerfall" system, only really have played this mud and Carrionfields.

[Saellyn]

Didn't know that's "the daggerfall" system, only really have played this mud and Carrionfields.

Arena, Daggerfall, Morrowind, Oblivion, Skyrim.

Daggerfall is the second Elder Scrolls game, I believe.

[Cind]

what if spice had different long-term negative effects on different races?

half-elves would be an in-between between the human and elven side effects.

[Saellyn]

what if spice had different long-term negative effects on different races?

half-elves would be an in-between between the human and elven side effects.

I don't know how that would work, but it's possible that it might affect the Elves and Humans differently. Not sure. Try and find out!

[spacewars]

Didn't know that's "the daggerfall" system, only really have played this mud and Carrionfields.

Arena, Daggerfall, Morrowind, Oblivion, Skyrim.

Daggerfall is the second Elder Scrolls game, I believe.

arena daggerfall (Redguard) (Battlespire) morrowind oblivion skyrim

You forgot two, yet not very well known games. Mainly because they where very hard to get working. I'm not sure which actually came first redguard or battlespire, but these two games where released well before morrowind.

[Erythil]

I really want to play redguard...but getting it to work is almost impossible.

[Saellyn]

I only know because in the Morrowind handbook it's called "The sequel to Arena and Daggerfall". I've never heard of Redguard or Battlespire nor do I know why they're so hard to...

What the hell? You just derailed the topic worse than I did.

Long story short spice is interesting if you use it right. My position is unassailable

[spacewars]

I really want to play redguard...but getting it to work is almost impossible.

It really is, tried for 3 months. And i even used an old win 98 computer.

[spacewars]

i always like the spice that makes you see things, scared one of my pc's

[spacewars]

I only know because in the Morrowind handbook it's called "The sequel to Arena and Daggerfall". I've never heard of Redguard or Battlespire nor do I know why they're so hard to...

What the hell? You just derailed the topic worse than I did.

Long story short spice is interesting if you use it right. My position is unassailable

Sorry for the derail, i just had to correct the timeline of the games, and Yes morrowing was the sequel to daggerfall. But the others had storylines of there own.