Armageddon's Rape Policy

[Samoa]

Me point is, if you go the "oh but think of their RL experiences!!!!" route ... then the rules are pretty much saying: Rape victims are delicate flowers who need their feelings taken into account, former POW's and victims of prolonged domestic abuse as children can man up because the torture is happening to their PC whether they consent or not and I don't really care if you were actually locked in a dog cage for months and burned with a blow torch.

I am 99.9% sure that if we had a player who had been locked up in a dog cage for months and burnt with a blow torch, that we would sure as shit afford that player the exact same consent options for torture that we afford in terms of scenarios involving sexual assault. If someone OOC'd to you that they were extremely uncomfortable playing out a torture scenario for personal reasons and you insisted they go along with it, there's a term for that kind of behaviour on your part, and it's called being an asshole. We all play here together. The key word here is play.

Furthermore, the rules *do not* say that people who have been raped are delicate flowers; that is you reading your own flavour and interpretation into the rules. The rules are written very clearly, and if you feel like colouring them with your own perceptions of what they're saying, that falls on you -- not on rules that haven't been written with a hundred clauses underneath them to try and anticipate your varied opinions.

The rules were written to be short, concise, and clear. They serve that purpose.

[musashi]

If someone OOC'd to you that they were extremely uncomfortable playing out a torture scenario for personal reasons and you insisted they go along with it, there's a term for that kind of behaviour on your part, and it's called being an asshole. We all play here together. The key word here is play ... The rules were written to be short, concise, and clear. They serve that purpose.

On this, we agree.
And it's good that they're there.

[Pills]

I've instigated playerkills just by someone mentioning that they might rape someone else.

I don't play white knights.  I don't play fuckers in shining armor.  My PCs tend to be just as scoundrely as many others in their own ways, but I've never played (and I never will play) anyone who considers rape to be A-OK.  

Why?  RL experiences.  Call me a shitty roleplayer, I don't give a fuck.  I'm not going to do it.

And I will absolutely continue to act as I have.

5 will get you 10 that anyone on this board who is preaching bullshit about "Oh it happens in the real world" has never actually looked into the eyes of someone that they loved after this violation of the spirit and mind has happened to them.

Fine, don't understand why you can't go out on a rape fest.  Refuse to get this little concept through your damn skull, it doesn't matter.

The rule is the rule.  Anyone can refuse rape.  Period.  Accept it, and go fucking spam forage for an hour or two as you cry into your second-hand purchased Japanese girl panties.

*throws down the microphone and steps off his soap box*

For fuck's sake.

This.

[NOFUN]

I don't think any one is arguing against the policy, can't see where all the hate came from.
Hopefully we can trick somebody into disagreeing in random arm thought when somebody brings it up yet again so we can start a ten page argument.

If people want to roleplay rape, then fine. As long as they're not breaking policies. Better that such people pursue such a fantasy in a game, in my opinion.

[Bacon]

Just maim them instead if you must do something to them. I like gouging out eyes or cutting out tongues myself. Taking one of their hands is pretty cool too.

[NOFUN]

Just maim them instead if you must do something to them. I like gouging out eyes or cutting out tongues myself. Taking one of their hands is pretty cool too.

Why?
I hate to have the unpopular opinion, but it seems odd that the GDB sympathises rape victims but not torture victims. A player may very well of had his eyes gouged out and his tongue cut out. Obviously the policy allows the player to fade to black for torture just incase, but I'm just wondering why the GDB flames somebody for raping another PC but considers it cool to cut off another PC's hand.

I'm not trying to justify torture or rape. Just seems like bullshit double standards to me.

[Samoa]

Just maim them instead if you must do something to them. I like gouging out eyes or cutting out tongues myself. Taking one of their hands is pretty cool too.

These are not the same thing, nor do both automatically belong to people of the same psychological profile. While some kinds of rape may be exceptionally physically violent, all rape is not characterized by excessive violence. Generally, only rapists who rape to satisfy a sadistic need -- which is not most of them -- would be willing to engage in something like mutilation or murder, and some rapists may not even engage in violent force AT ALL.

I would really, really prefer it if people would stop insinuating that one is interchangeable with the other. They are not.

[Samoa]

Just maim them instead if you must do something to them. I like gouging out eyes or cutting out tongues myself. Taking one of their hands is pretty cool too.

Why?
I hate to have the unpopular opinion, but it seems odd that the GDB sympathises rape victims but not torture victims. A player may very well of had his eyes gouged out and his tongue cut out. Obviously the policy allows the player to fade to black for torture just incase, but I'm just wondering why the GDB flames somebody for raping another PC but considers it cool to cut off another PC's hand.

I'm not trying to justify torture or rape. Just seems like bullshit double standards to me.

Because it is very likely that none of the playerbase has had their hands or eyes removed via acts of torture, and it is similarly very likely that a fair portion of the playerbase has been sexually assaulted.

[NOFUN]

Just maim them instead if you must do something to them. I like gouging out eyes or cutting out tongues myself. Taking one of their hands is pretty cool too.

Why?
I hate to have the unpopular opinion, but it seems odd that the GDB sympathises rape victims but not torture victims. A player may very well of had his eyes gouged out and his tongue cut out. Obviously the policy allows the player to fade to black for torture just incase, but I'm just wondering why the GDB flames somebody for raping another PC but considers it cool to cut off another PC's hand.

I'm not trying to justify torture or rape. Just seems like bullshit double standards to me.

Because it is very likely that none of the playerbase has had their hands or eyes removed via acts of torture, and it is similarly very likely that a fair portion of the playerbase has been sexually assaulted.

Okay let's disregard the feelings of a torture victim because they're in the minority.

[Synthesis]

These sorts of rules ultimately only make sense in terms of whether we feel like they're good or not, so all these "but but but..." attempts to draw logical parallels or establish equivalencies is misguided, unless it's purely rhetorical.

People feel different about torture than they do about rape.  Yes, this is probably merely because rape is closer to home.  Yes, they're probably equally horrible.  No, it doesn't make a difference.  Yes, the rule is still fine.

[Samoa]

These sorts of rules ultimately only make sense in terms of whether we feel like they're good or not, so all these "but but but..." attempts to draw logical parallels or establish equivalencies is misguided, unless it's purely rhetorical.

People feel different about torture than they do about rape.  Yes, this is probably merely because rape is closer to home.  Yes, they're probably equally horrible.  No, it doesn't make a difference.  Yes, the rule is still fine.

Yes, thank you.

[Bacon]

Just maim them instead if you must do something to them. I like gouging out eyes or cutting out tongues myself. Taking one of their hands is pretty cool too.

These are not the same thing, nor do both automatically belong to people of the same psychological profile. While some kinds of rape may be exceptionally physically violent, all rape is not characterized by excessive violence. Generally, only rapists who rape to satisfy a sadistic need -- which is not most of them -- would be willing to engage in something like mutilation or murder, and some rapists may not even engage in violent force AT ALL.

I would really, really prefer it if people would stop insinuating that one is interchangeable with the other. They are not.

They're the same thing in the regard that they are doing something very bad to someone with permanent issues that can result from it. They are the same thing in the regard that it takes one having power over the other one to execute. No, they aren't -exactly- the same thing and I never said such. What I'm saying is that instead of making a pc that's a rapist as their outlet to harm others or exert their power over others, I choose for that pc to be the type to maim them instead. If it's a big deal in regards to rape in the game that there are special rules for it. I'd just rather avoid those sort of scenes entirely.

[Clavis]

tor·ture   /ˈtɔrtʃər/  Show Spelled [tawr-cher]  Show IPA noun, verb, -tured, -tur·ing.
noun
1. the act of inflicting excruciating pain, as punishment or revenge, as a means of getting a confession or information, or for sheer cruelty



Honestly look at it rape is just another form of torture. Causing both mental and physical pain, is cruel an instrument of terror that has been used for countless years. So the whole rape vs. torture arguement is kinda bull shit. Also I agree completely with malifaxis

[Synthesis]

Moral rules are guided more by emotional content than by logic and strict definitions.

In this context, if people feel like it is significantly different, it is significantly different.

You may disagree with certain conclusions, and you may feel differently, and you can attempt to mount a crusade to change other people's feelings about the matter, but resorting to definitions and logic is only going to help insofar as the feelings are based on definitions and logic, which, going back to my first premise there, likely isn't very much.

Also, if we got rid of all the nastiness in the game, we might as well kick ginka in the nuts and go play a Pokemon MUSH.  I think it's fair enough to settle for putting the worst sorts or nastiness out of bounds, while allowing lesser sorts.  While we may express sympathy for those who cannot handle the lesser sorts of nastiness, and therefore choose not to play our game, I think it matters little for the playerbase at large.  Clearly, this is not the case for rape.

[manipura]

tor·ture   /ˈtɔrtʃər/  Show Spelled [tawr-cher]  Show IPA noun, verb, -tured, -tur·ing.
noun
1. the act of inflicting excruciating pain, as punishment or revenge, as a means of getting a confession or information, or for sheer cruelty



Honestly look at it rape is just another form of torture. Causing both mental and physical pain, is cruel an instrument of terror that has been used for countless years. So the whole rape vs. torture arguement is kinda bull shit. Also I agree completely with malifaxis

Disagree. That's not to say that rape isn't something that -can be- and -is- used as torture...but I don't think it's 'just another form of torture'.  I think that the mindset of a rapist and their justification for it are very different than the mindset of a person torturing someone for information or as punishment, revenge etc.  

[NOFUN]

Also, if we got rid of all the nastiness in the game, we might as well kick ginka in the nuts and go play a Pokemon MUSH..

That's not what I'm saying at all. I can understand that people may not want to roleplay nasties such as rape or torture, and that's fine. It's just when I come into a thread and see everybody hopping on the SS moral highground and hating just because.. well, they can. Three pages of NO DON'T ROLEPLAY RAPE IT'S EVIL!! just because there was an opening to say so.

It's one thing to not want to roleplay rape or torture, but OOCLY hating other players that do is another thing completely.

[musashi]

It's one thing to not want to roleplay rape or torture, but OOCLY hating other players that do is another thing completely.

Yuuuup.

[Synthesis]

don't hate the playa hate the game

wait...

Also, I feel like it's trivially obvious, but bandwagon-jumping is the way moral disapprobation is handled in a social context, dude.

[Kismetic]

I'm just going to put out there which scenario is more interesting ...

Code Select Expand

Grabbing you by the throat, sneering derisively, the stark, rantarri-slashed man says, in sirihish:
    "I fucking own you, and don't you forget it."

The stark, rantarri-slashed man drags his slimy tongue across the side of your face before giving it
a condescending pat.


Or ...

Code Select Expand

The stark, rantarri-slashed man backstabs you and you die, thanks for playing.


You can play a domineering, creepy asshole without delving too far into the interweird.  If you want to play rape, go play a tentacle monster on some fetish MUSH.


P.S.  I dig Malifaxis' post.  <3 u man

[lordcooper]

One of my PCs raped another on a different MUD once.  It literally had to happen due to IC stuff and certain kinks in his mental processes.  Still made me feel sick though.

[jcarter]

I don't mind the whole don't rape without consent rule, but I think the justification of "Oh it will upset people who got raped IRL" is kind of weak sauce.

Indeed!  We should never be empathetic or take into account the feelings of people that have been in horrible real-world situations!  How dare we take an adult stance on this by making rules about it!  The unfortunate byproduct of these rules?  Those silly rape victims won't ever get to experience it again in Arm!  They're missing out!

There are plenty of people who have been beaten and tortured IRL as well. Talk to a former POW. I assure you they went through their fair share of shit as well but do we care about protecting their precious feelings? No. Fuck them.

Well said!  We should never be empathetic or take into account the feelings of people that have been in horrible real-world situations!  How dare we allow such hypothetical people to skip over having to at least "see" the grisly effects of such torture happen to a character that they may, in fact, be quite attached to!  As you say, screw 'em.

If you aren't emotionally stable enough to separate the fantasy of what happens in Armageddon from the reality of what happens in your life ... do not play the game.

Exactly!  If you get mad over losing a character, you probably should just quit the game and never play it again!  It's fantasy, it's just a game, don't feel bad over losing your character!  What are you, some kind of pansy?

All of the above was sarcasm, by the way.  Those aren't necessarily the word-for-word reasons we've made these rules on consent, but they do come into play.  Your opinions on the matter mentioned above may be exactly how you feel, but I don't think it's unexpected for a staff member to officially say that we don't care about your opinions about the consent rule. We on staff take a very hard line on these rules having to do with consent and if you break them, we will break you.

Have you considered ever taking a break from staffing or reading the GDB? You seem to get way too emotionally invested in things.

[NOFUN]

You can play a domineering, creepy asshole without delving too far into the interweird.  If you want to play rape, go play a tentacle monster on some fetish MUSH.

Maybe I'm reading this wrong, but I'm reading this as "play ARM the way I want or stop playing altogether"

[Pills]

You can play a domineering, creepy asshole without delving too far into the interweird.  If you want to play rape, go play a tentacle monster on some fetish MUSH.

Maybe I'm reading this wrong, but I'm reading this as "play ARM the way I want or stop playing altogether"

When it comes to rape, this is correct.

edit: With "the way I want" meaning "the way the majority of the staff and playerbase have decided is appropriate".

[NOFUN]

You can play a domineering, creepy asshole without delving too far into the interweird.  If you want to play rape, go play a tentacle monster on some fetish MUSH.

Maybe I'm reading this wrong, but I'm reading this as "play ARM the way I want or stop playing altogether"

When it comes to rape, this is correct.  (in my opinion)

ftfy.

edit: With "the way I want" meaning "the way the majority of the staff and playerbase have decided is appropriate".

Not that this is a valid point since majority=/=being right, but the staff says it's okay as long as you OOCLY get consent first.

[Cind]

This is the only text game I know of that has rules like this---- rules where I can not only tell someone "noez, dude" but I can prevent them from simply coming up to me without a word and start sexing me up and not stop when I tell them to stop. It does hurt for some people, you know--- so please don't change the rules.

Actually, why is this thread open in the first place? something happen?